England Six Nations Thread

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England Six Nations Thread

Post by Cumbrian on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:31 am

Squad (From RFU Website):

Backs

Full backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Nathan Earle (Saracens) *
Harry Mallinder (Northampton Saints) *
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Inside backs
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins) * **
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Forwards

Back five
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) *
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby) *
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Front row
Lewis Boyce (Harlequins) *
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby) *
Jamie George (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs) *
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)

Players unavailable
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Nathan Hughes (Wasps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)
Will Spencer (Worcester Warriors)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)

Uncapped *
Apprentice player **

Fixtures:

*All kick-off times in GMT.


Italy v England
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Sunday 4th February 2018
Kick Off: 3:00pm

England v Wales
Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 10th February 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

Scotland v England
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Saturday 24th February 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

France v England
Stade de France, Paris
Saturday 10th March 2018
Kick Off: 4:45pm

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 17th March 2018
Kick Off: 2:45pm

Officialdom:

Italy v England

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

England v Wales

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 1: Mathieu Reynal (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

Scotland v England

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

France v England

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 1: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 2: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

England v Ireland

Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 1: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant 2: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)





Last edited by Cumbrian on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:50 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:33 am

Ah did obano pick up an injury? Was wondering whether he'd just been looked at and discarded.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:36 am

I can't believe Ford and Hartley are involved when they've never beat the Crusaders, complete joke.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Cumbrian on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:39 am

It is somewhat of an odd squad that Eddie has named, there are definitely names in there that I did not expect to see. Quite frankly I thought Mallinder had played himself of international recognition for a while, but it looks like he and Earle will be covering fullback.

I genuienly didn't expect to see Gary Graham in there. Hepburn and Boyce seem to have come out of nowhere too.

I think it is interesting that Mercer is no longer listed as an apprentice, reckon he is going to see some gametime.

The fact that there are only five back-rowers listed suggests Maro will be covering until the Hask returns
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Cumbrian on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:41 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I can't believe Ford and Hartley are involved when they've never beat the Crusaders, complete joke.

Very Happy


Seems my sleuthing regarding Vellacott came to naught as well!
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:44 am

You beat me to it, so deleted mine Very Happy (You did miss the officials however https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/news/england/32020.php)

I find the list of unavailable players interesting, especially seeing Will Spenser's name there.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Cumbrian on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:51 am

Much obliged, will pretty it up later, at work (supposedly) at the moment.
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by lostinwales on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 12:22 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah did obano pick up an injury? Was wondering whether he'd just been looked at and discarded.

Well he's listed as unavailable. Eddie had told him to get fitter so there was no guarantee he'd be there at this stage anyway.

I believe Nowell has ankle problems and Te'o has been out for ages - I don't think they will be available for Italy although I assume there is a chance Nowell will be. He'll be short on match practice.

I have also seen that 'apparently' Eddie has told Tuilagi that he won't be involved in the 6N but is in his long term plans. Wise move.

Still no news about Brown. If he has got concussion symptoms then there is time but it is a worry

Do we know what sort of form Joseph is in? I would expect the team to be Mako, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Itoje, Robshaw, Underhill, Simmonds Youngs Ford May Farrell Slade Watson Brown. Subs george Skinkler Hepburn Lawes ? Care Lozowski Joseph.

That back row replacement will be interesting. I didn't think Mercer would be ready but in eddie we trust.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 1:37 pm

According to reports on the press briefing they may be considering using Nowell at OC

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Cumbrian on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 2:05 pm

That is an odd one, Joseph and Slade already covering 13. Mind you, Slade could being used as a utility back to cover 10, 12 and 13. I hadn't picked Spencer being amongst the unavailable players either. That is another curious choice because as I understand it he is an out-and-out second row (e.g. doesn't cover back-row) and it is not like we don't have plenty of those!
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 2:18 pm

Cumbrian wrote:It is somewhat of an odd squad that Eddie has named, there are definitely names in there that I did not expect to see.  Quite frankly I thought Mallinder had played himself of international recognition for a while, but it looks like he and Earle will be covering fullback.

I genuienly didn't expect to see Gary Graham in there.  Hepburn and Boyce seem to have come out of nowhere too.

I think it is interesting that Mercer is no longer listed as an apprentice, reckon he is going to see some gametime.

The fact that there are only five back-rowers listed suggests Maro will be covering until the Hask returns

I called it earlier on the other England thread.
It was well known that Townsend was calling Graham personally trying to get him to go for Scotland ...and he was at KP the other Sunday as well. The fact he wasn't named in the Scotland squad made it pretty obvious he was going to be named in the England one.

He's physical and aggressive - exactly what Jones Likes.

I just hope he's not played once then dumped like Mark Wilson has been and thus sacrificed what could potentially be a long career with Scotland

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 2:20 pm

Malinder has moved to 10 for Saints under Gafney and has apparently played very well indeed as the saints form has improved on the whole as a team.

I think Nowell would be a cracking 13. We spoke about this a year or two ago. The problem is he doesn't play there for Exeter...though that means nothing to Eddie.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Scottrf on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 2:24 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Malinder has moved to 10 for Saints

Necessity not choice. I think he will go back to 15 next year with Biggar coming. Gaffney isn't selecting the team yet.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Nottswasp on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:02 pm

Sgt pooly...I know! I am glad u have finally come round to the correct way of thinking lol

Anyways....I am a little concerned about the lack of a back row ball carrier, I was hoping for Dave Ewers to get a spot.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:17 pm

But its working Scott....

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Nottswasp on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:23 pm

Until the Harlequins game I would have looked at Mallinder for maybe a bench spot....now I think he needs more experience at the saints.

Anyone know how Mike Haley is going at sale?

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:25 pm

Nottswasp wrote:Sgt pooly...I know! I am glad u have finally come round to the correct way of thinking lol

Anyways....I am a little concerned about the lack of a back row ball carrier, I was hoping for Dave Ewers to get a spot.

We will be lacking a heavy duty Hughes or Vunipola, however on the plus side Simmonds is an absolute explosive flyer at 8 and Gary Graham is a good carrier. Did you not see his three pirouette move the other week??

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:26 pm

Nottswasp wrote:Until the Harlequins game I would have looked at Mallinder for maybe a bench spot....now I think he needs more experience at the saints.

Anyone know how Mike Haley is going at sale?
Not sure but I hear Dusty Hare's going well!

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Nottswasp on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:29 pm

I've seen Simmonds for Exeter play really well, but I haven't seen much of Graham... what's his style of play?

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Nottswasp on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:31 pm

Dusty hare!....what a legend, some players are just ageless

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:31 pm

Nottswasp wrote:I've seen Simmonds for Exeter play really well, but I haven't seen much of Graham... what's his style of play?

He floats like a butterfly

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Nottswasp on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:33 pm

Oh no..I was hoping for a heavyweight ball carrier lol

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by lostinwales on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:36 pm

Nottswasp wrote:Dusty hare!....what a legend, some players are just ageless

Makes Phil Vickery look like a kid. How we'll ever manage when they finally retire?

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Nottswasp on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 4:46 pm

Dusty hare retiring is one of the signs of the apocalypse

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by ChequeredJersey on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 9:37 pm

Scottrf wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Malinder has moved to 10 for Saints

Necessity not choice. I think he will go back to 15 next year with Biggar coming. Gaffney isn't selecting the team yet.

I really don’t think he has the game for a 15 and his play there recently has done the opposite of convince me otherwise.

He’s a centre
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by ChequeredJersey on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 9:39 pm

I think Nowell should be considered at 15 to be honest, he plays similarly to Brown for one thing

Boyce has looked really good in recent scrums, but part of his selection will
Be as a warning to Marler
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:16 pm

So Italy up first....Sunday 4th
Assuming no further injuries...

Do you expect some thing like:

1Mako
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Lawes / Launchbury - Which way will Jones go?
5 Itoje
6 Robshaw
7 Underhill
8 Simmonds....or Could Eddie throw a curve ball and put Mercer in?

9 Youngs
10 Ford
11 May
12 Farrell
13 Joseph / Slade / T'eo / Nowell?
14 Watson
15 Brown




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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by ChequeredJersey on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:22 pm

I think:

Mako
Hartley
Cole
Launchbury
Itoje
Robshaw
Underhill
Simmonds
Youngs
Ford
May
Farrell
Joseph
Watson
Brown

Boyce, George, Williams/Sinckler (can’t call it), Lawes, Mercer, Care, Slade, Nowell
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:31 pm

Interesting calls CJ.

Launchbury over Lawes?
Mercer on the bench...

Will Jones resist the temptation of a lock in the back row. Surely he will with genuine back rowers like Underhill available again.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by ChequeredJersey on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:32 pm

It’s not what I’d pick but what I think we will see
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Scottrf on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:35 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Malinder has moved to 10 for Saints

Necessity not choice. I think he will go back to 15 next year with Biggar coming. Gaffney isn't selecting the team yet.

I really don’t think he has the game for a 15 and his play there recently has done the opposite of convince me otherwise.

He’s a centre

Completely has the game for a 15. Big boot, pace, good under the high ball.

He can't cope defensively in midfield but does okay in the isolated defence a 15 needs.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by ChequeredJersey on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:47 pm

Maybe what I've seen has been unfair, but has looked completely hopeless in the isolated defence a 15 needs when I've seen him at 15, lacking in pace and weak under the high ball
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Scottrf on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:49 pm

Lacking in pace? Interesting comment.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by king_carlos on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:10 pm

1.Mako 2.Hartley (c) 3.Cole 4.Itoje 5.Lawes 6.Robshaw 7.Underhill 8.Simmonds
9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12.Farrell 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Brown

16.George 17.Hepburn 18.Sinckler 19.Launchbury 20.Mercer 21.Care 22.Slade 23.Nowell

That would be my prediction. Given the injuries I think it looks a pretty balanced squad with a reasonable bench as well.

Most worrying is that we are only an injury to any of Mako, Robshaw or Underhill away from very serious problems though.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by doctor_grey on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:19 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Malinder has moved to 10 for Saints

Necessity not choice. I think he will go back to 15 next year with Biggar coming. Gaffney isn't selecting the team yet.

I really don’t think he has the game for a 15 and his play there recently has done the opposite of convince me otherwise.

He’s a centre
On the contrary, I think Prince Harry would be fine as a stopgap 15. He is a big kid, kicks well, catching kicks, runs hard, and defends well. But, ultimately, I agree, his best position is likely 12. Now, I admit, I don't think Jones will play him at fullback unless someone like Watson is unavailable (assuming Brown is out again). The good news for Harry is he has had a lot of first team games at 10, 12, and 15, so he can cover a number of positions. With his size and speed, this is attractive, but I guess his most likely position is bench against Italy. He is young and is still developing his game.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by doctor_grey on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:24 pm

king_carlos wrote:1.Mako 2.Hartley (c) 3.Cole 4.Itoje 5.Lawes 6.Robshaw 7.Underhill 8.Simmonds
9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12.Farrell 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Brown

16.George 17.Hepburn 18.Sinckler 19.Launchbury 20.Mercer 21.Care 22.Slade 23.Nowell

That would be my prediction. Given the injuries I think it looks a pretty balanced squad with a reasonable bench as well.

Most worrying is that we are only an injury to any of Mako, Robshaw or Underhill away from very serious problems though.
I agree, But I think this makes Launchbury more valuable. When given a role to hit the rucks, he has had his best games for England and was a real difference maker. I could envision Underhill on the bench, Robshaw at 7 and Lawes/Itoje at 6. I think your lineup is more likely unless Underhill is not fully recovered.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Nottswasp on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:29 pm

I think king Carlos is correct about what 23 will lineup against Italy.

There are concerns for me;
1) limited lineout jumpers, back row don't really offer a good jumper.
2) reduced big ball carriers in the pack and George ford struggled against Gloucester without that front foot ball granted by big ball carriers

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Poorfour on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:48 pm

Scottrf wrote:Lacking in pace? Interesting comment.

Lacking in acceleration would be fairer. He's pretty quick when he gets going, but doesn't have the leg speed to change direction quickly.

I wonder if the need for another big carrier will see Sinckler given the chance to start. Against Italy, he will get an examination in the scrum, but in a game we will struggle to lose. That said, Cole isn't a bench player, so I think it's either 3. Cole / 18. Sinck or 3. Sinck / 18. Williams.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by ChequeredJersey on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 12:09 am

Do we have reduced big ball carriers? Everywhere I go people seem to act like Billy Vunipola has played for England in the last year and our plan was reliant on that. He's started once, and we lost.

Simmonds is a different kind of carrier than Hughes, but neither is an in traffic carrier, and there is still a mix of good carriers in that England pack - none are quite like Billy but he's not been there for England for the last year! 

As for lineout, I'm pretty sure Simmonds is a decent option, and Robshaw is an underrated one.
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by ChequeredJersey on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 12:12 am

Poorfour wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Lacking in pace? Interesting comment.

Lacking in acceleration would be fairer. He's pretty quick when he gets going, but doesn't have the leg speed to change direction quickly.

I wonder if the need for another big carrier will see Sinckler given the chance to start. Against Italy, he will get an examination in the scrum, but in a game we will struggle to lose. That said, Cole isn't a bench player, so I think it's either 3. Cole / 18. Sinck or 3. Sinck / 18. Williams.


Yeah that would be fairer. I mean mostly in defence, which is key for a Fullback, where he just seems so suspect in every aspect. At full speed we've seen him skin Wade in attack, but at actual coverage defence he's been poor. Whereas, at 10 this season, he has been good!
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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Nottswasp on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 12:27 am

Missing Billy Vunipola last season was tempered by having Nathan Hughes.

Now we are looking at a starting 15 with only really mako Vunipola as the big ball carrier....with still no one in the back line. No Te'o or Tuilagi.

Our best pack big carriers are
Mako Vunipola
Jaime George
Kyle Sinckler
Joe Launchbury
Billy Vunipola
Nathan Hughes

They can allow the more fleet footed of carriers like Simmonds and maybe Itoje and lawes....the space to exploit.

I expect robshaw is going to be putting in a real tough ball carrying shift this 6 nation's.

Thought the lions did well because their front row of Vunipola, George and furlong made some good hard carriers

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by englishborn on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 9:11 am

Nottswasp wrote:Until the Harlequins game I would have looked at Mallinder for maybe a bench spot....now I think he needs more experience at the saints.

Anyone know how Mike Haley is going at sale?

He is going well, however the introduction of O'Connor has moved him to the bench lately. However when he does come on he the to make a good impact.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 9:20 am

"I expect robshaw is going to be putting in a real tough ball carrying shift this 6 nations"

This isn't in Robshaw's locker. He's never going to make a lot of yards or break the line, he's a carry and present kind of player with good hands. Carrying is an issue across the side, you need this to Get over the gain line....we'll struggle against the better sides.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 9:24 am

Eddie Jones on Marcus Smith:

"He must get paid for running sideways. That new contract, has it got some claus in it for running sideways? When he runs straight and makes good tackles, we'll pick him"

EJ doesn't mess about!

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 9:34 am

Ha. In all seriousness though he's massively improved from his first game when he was good. He could force his way into the match day squad before the wc quite easily.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by yappysnap on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 9:45 am

Ouch!

But in all fairness when he does run straight be tears teams apart

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by cascough on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 9:52 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:"I expect robshaw is going to be putting in a real tough ball carrying shift this 6 nations"

This isn't in Robshaw's locker. He's never going to make a lot of yards or break the line, he's a carry and present kind of player with good hands. Carrying is an issue across the side, you need this to Get over the gain line....we'll struggle against the better sides.

Agreed on Robshaw. What Robshaw does is vital, but we do need others to break the gainline. Thing is, you're never going to replace Vunipola. That guy, for me is the best carrier in the world, but I expect he's in most peoples' top 3.

Not only do we not have an equal replacement for Vunipola, do other teams have an oustanding carrier? Hughes was a good stopgap last year, but still not up to Vunipola level. Faletau is out. Picamoles not selected. Stander probably the pick of the bunch. I suspect that with no Vunipola, or even Hughes, that only leaves us in a similar position to the other teams in that they don't have any truly destructive carriers either, and the burden is shared across a number of players.

The other way to view it, if we are truly lacking in the carrying department, is we will just kick more. We have a good defence, good set piece and we are very clinical. I wouldn't be too concerned if that is the tactic.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 10:13 am

Eddies hand might be forced to start Jamie George in this one to add some heavy duty line breaking and carrying.

Either that of Mr Hartley will be told to up his work rate in that department.

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by cascough on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 10:23 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Eddies hand might be forced to start Jamie George in this one to add some heavy duty line breaking and carrying.

Either that of Mr Hartley will be told to up his work rate in that department.

I don't think he will start, But I'd expect to see him maybe even as early as half time.

I do think that if we see Mako, Hepburn, George, Sinckler, Lawes, Launchbury all in a matchday squad we will be okay in the tight.

Edit-I'm doing Boyce a disservice there, he's a pretty good carrier too.


Last edited by cascough on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: England Six Nations Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 10:26 am

And the positive spin..., having Simmonds and potentially Mercer on at some point means we can expand the play a bit, and those two will be running some great lines that hopefully our backs can get on their shoulders...

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