The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

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The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 12:09 am

First topic message reminder :

Some of the Irish provinces seem to be doing fine.  Munster might be able to pay back a few shillings to Landsdowne HQ this season.  Leinster have finally started sharing. Connacht have survived Mr Grumpy and have managed another Challenge Cup quarter.  Could they make the final?
Ulster need a separate topic to cover all their issues.  Oh - and they have one.  

Italy.  Treviso are now Benetton and improving to the point of it being grudgingly admitted outside of Italy.  Zebre?  See Ulster above.  The FIR continue to fiddle the other unions while Rome burns.  

Scarlets on the other hand continue to see Byrne roam.  And sidestep.  The WRU must be grinning from ear to ear as Scarlets are simply steaming.   Who needs union monies when you can assemble a squad like this?  Top of their conference and finishing top of their pool in front of a packed house to gain a home quarterfinal in the Champions Cup. What more could you ask for?  Possibly a sneaky Welsh cap for Tadgh Beirne but little else to complain about.  If Gatland can harness the Scarlets, a la Leinster and Glasgow, and get Wales moving to the top in the Six Nations, the WRU might need to send a little more love (hard cash) over Llanelli way to encourage them further.  

Dragons got bought by the WRU.  And then hired an Irish coach. And then fixed their pitch.  And then things went so so.  And the jury went out on Jackman.  And then they started losing. A lot.  And then they had lots of announcements about new players for next season. And then they got knocked out of the Challenge Cup.  
And now it’s a wait for another season.  Not sure if the jury has come back in yet but Jackman has a battle on his hands.  

Ospreys continue to plumb new depths and eventually decided to fire their coach after failing in the Champions Cup once again.  Will they be in the Challenge Cup next season?

Cardiff have at least made the knockouts of the Challenge Cup but they’re still batting eyes at the WRU some say.  Will they succumb to the union’s clutches?

All the way down to Port Elizabeth for the new entrants.

The Southern Kings? See Zebre.  X 100.   Massive squad revamp needed and SARU investment.

Cheetahs?   Just when they’d notched another triumph on their league bedpost, came the news that another of their players had been nicked for another SR side. Their top try scorer is leaving too.  They’ve 8 wins in the bag, can they get a few more to make it into the playoffs?  

And finally the Scots.  Cockerill is definitely making inroads and if it doesn’t happen this season, they’ll be making life difficult in 2018/19 for a few of the higher up clubs. Their sassy and classy neighbours look strong prospects for the Championship title with a single loss so far.   Not too long ago, the SRU was making plaintive noises about the costs of running the two clubs and seeking private investors.  Then they went quiet.  Then they announced a profit for the first time in a long while.  And investment in academy is starting to pay off.  And the Test team isn’t doing too shabby either.  SRU CEO, Mark Dodson, says long term objective is to secure external investment to ensure the future of the game.  

We’ve had the first inkling of a change and expected increase in TV revenues for the Championship with EirSport announced as the new broadcaster for games in the Irish territory.  Anayi & Co still have to deliver a substantial increase on previous revenues.  The SARU/SuperSport deal has ensured part of that with a reported 36m six-year agreement.   What will GB deliver?

Private investment and Union control/money.  Will a happy marriage eventually be reached?
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by carpet baboon on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 5:20 pm

Look LD since this league began every single victory by an Irish team has been met with accusations of the league/ref/TMO is a cheat, it's all set up for the benefit of the Irish, everyone and everything to do with the league is in the pocket of the IRFU
Every single year.
One person on this forum even suggested that Connacht's victory was empty and all down to the IRFU and nothing to do with the hard work of the players.
So excuse me if I am bored of defending the club's and the IRFU from ridiculous conspiracy theories dressed up as pretend concern for the league's professionalism. Especially when not one single note of concern was raised about Owens reffing the final.

Every year LD. Every single year


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 5:30 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If it makes no difference then you must know why it was done?

Probably by the cowboys running our league, they are so out of touch of what the big picture is, it's not even funny.

They tell us what we want to hear, but they do not fill out their promises, and expect us fans to gulp it all up like it's ambrosia.

Our league is fundamentally flawed, yet nothing is being done to address it, but rather than discuss it, you and your mates would rather take the p1ss.

Why we cannot talk about this like adults is beyond me.
How is it flawed, do the best teams not make the finals every year? Why can Super rugby have;for example South African refs officiating their franchises but the pro 14 can't have a similar situation? You said on the last thread that you now don't believe the refs are biased, So what is the issue?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 6:01 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How is it flawed, do the best teams not make the finals every year?

Because we do not have enough officials good enough to ref all fixtures.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:So what is the issue?

The issue for me is the fact we have union employed officials and union employed players and union employed coaches, where is the line between the official and the officiated ?

I have said on numerous occasions I would be a lot happier, if we were in a situation where the league itself was in charge and employed all officials, that way we could get all our officials/refs controlling the game the Pro14 way, not one doing it an Irish way, another doing it a Welsh way, another doing it an Italian way, and so on.

They could all get set mandates off the league, they could all get the same training, they could all be singing from the same hymn sheet.

All this could be paid for in a league fee way by the unions when they enter the sides into the league. All the officials/refs should answer to the same taskmaster, not to individual unions.

There is a lot more I could go into, but I would be here all night typing, and you would be here all night reading it. OK

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by Kingshu on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 6:24 pm

Maybe its the top referees get the top games.
Dragons v terviso isnt a big game and is perfect for Quinton Immelman to gain experience in.

It sounds like Lorddowas is calling out for something that already exists. Remembering that referees HAVE to be affiliated to a Union.

The specific role of the Elite Referee Manager will be to manage all Guinness PRO14 match official appointments. Garner will also oversee a structured and objective performance review process while liaising with all unions across the Guinness PRO14 to identify and promote future match official talent.
Read more at https://www.pro14rugby.org/2017/08/17/greg-garner-appointed-elite-referee-manager-guinness-pro14/#bPr5QRIlSHPsYXky.99

When you want them to answer to the same taskmaster and not the unions you like they already do with Greg Garner ???

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 6:38 pm

Kingshu wrote: Remembering that referees HAVE to be affiliated to a Union.

Why though ? In this day and age where unions are being challenged, why should that have to be a thing ?

Kingshu wrote:When you want them to answer to the same taskmaster and not the unions you like they already do with Greg Garner ???

But that's not happening though is it ? The same as we were supposed to have neutral TMO's, again not happening.

And that's another thing that annoys me, Martin Anayi and his false promises and failure to deliver.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by Kingshu on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 6:50 pm

To referee an internarional game they have to be assiociated to a union and not a league. Sure why not just have the best players in the Pro 14 enter the world cup as a team? Because World rubgy wouldnt allow it it has to be union affiliated teams that enter. Just like the referees chosen have to be union affiliated.
Looks like the Pro 14 is trying to do everything you ask but your still not happy.
Ah well

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 6:54 pm

Just to add meat to the bone I will quote what that link suggests, and what I think is not happening:-

Appointments will always be merit-based and neutral, wherever possible, to ensure the best fit for each Championship fixture. With his wealth of experience Garner will continue to ensure that the pool of officials available within the Guinness PRO14 will be able to answer the needs of both neutrality and excellent capability with the ultimate aim of establishing a stable of full-time officials. wrote:

“This is a world class club rugby tournament and as a result the Guinness PRO14 creates a demanding environment for match officials. I’ll strive to continue building on this platform set by Ed and the team at PRO14 Rugby by working closely with the clubs, unions and referee managers. wrote:

We are not in a club competition are we ?

“Our stated aim is to have full-time professional match officials as part of the Guinness PRO14 and Greg is fully committed to helping us realise that ambition. Our Championship is only concerned with setting the highest standards possible and with Greg now at the helm we look forward to seeing the best refereeing talent in charge of our fixtures. wrote:

Another pie in the sky comment, where are all these full time officials ? Are they in the same place as all these neutral TMO's ?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 6:57 pm

Kingshu wrote:To referee an internarional game they have to be assiociated to a union and not a league. Sure why not just have the best players in the Pro 14 enter the world cup as a team? Because World rubgy wouldnt allow it it has to be union affiliated teams that enter. Just like the referees chosen have to be union affiliated.
Looks like the Pro 14 is trying to do everything you ask but your still not happy.
Ah well

But why ? Why should a ref have to be affiliated to a union to ref international games ? That rule is just another thing to hide behind, it's stupid. Anyway, they could still be affiliated to a union, it does not mean they should be employed by the union, unless you think affiliated and employed mean the same thing. Rolling Eyes

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 7:04 pm

It doesn't matter who a referee is affiliated to or even who their employers are - people who whinge will whinge.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 7:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Kingshu wrote:To referee an internarional game they have to be assiociated to a union and not a league. Sure why not just have the best players in the Pro 14 enter the world cup as a team? Because World rubgy wouldnt allow it it has to be union affiliated teams that enter. Just like the referees chosen have to be union affiliated.
Looks like the Pro 14 is trying to do everything you ask but your still not happy.
Ah well

But why ? Why should a ref have to be affiliated to a union to ref international games ? That rule is just another thing to hide behind, it's stupid. Anyway, they could still be affiliated to a union, it does not mean they should be employed by the union, unless you think affiliated and employed mean the same thing. Rolling Eyes
The same refs from Leinster you see line out for games in the pro 14 are the ones you see at Leinster underage, leinster schools and A games and so on. That's why they must be afaliated to a union, you can't make a living only reffereing once a week in the pro 14! The unions also provide crucial experience to up and coming refs by letting them ref underage and AIL games etc.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by Kingshu on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 7:31 pm

"wherever possible, to ensure the best fit for each Championship fixture. "
Remember Gardner just isnt focusing on neutral refs but with developing refs and rewarding the best with the bigger games. If this wasnt the case who would have Owens ( whos rugby society is Llanelli and District) ref Scarlets (formally know as Llanelli Scarlets) V Munster unless we trust he is the best ref for the job.
Likewise why can't you trust that lacey is the best choice for the Leinster game and Garner isnt just picking refs willy nilly or at the IRFU's demand?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 7:56 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The same refs from Leinster you see line out for games in the pro 14 are the ones you see at Leinster underage, leinster schools and A games and so on. That's why they must be afaliated to a union, you can't make a living only reffereing once a week in the pro 14! The unions also provide crucial experience to up and coming refs by letting them ref underage and AIL games etc.

What has that got to do with ANYTHING I have said ?


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 8:00 am

Kingshu wrote:"wherever possible, to ensure the best fit for each Championship fixture. "
Remember Gardner just isnt focusing on neutral refs but with developing refs and rewarding the best with the bigger games. If this wasnt the case who would have Owens ( whos rugby society is Llanelli and District) ref Scarlets (formally know as Llanelli Scarlets) V Munster unless we trust he is the best ref for the job.
Likewise why can't you trust that lacey is the best choice for the Leinster game and Garner isnt just picking refs willy nilly or at the IRFU's demand?

Why ?

Do you think that these refs will be biased or cheat ?

Nationality should not really be an issue, should it ?

We have not got enough competent refs to go around, so what is our league doing about it ? You can point to that link where it says that Gardner was employed last season, but I still see no improvements, and we have been talking about this for years, he predecessor did naff all, and it looks as though he is as well.

The Pro14 needs to employ it's own refs, they can be affiliated to what ever they like, but the Pro14 need to employ them, this will solve a lot of issues for me, and I suspect, a lot of others.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 9:24 am

If there is not an issue around thetype of appointment in Dublin this weekend, then why did golden boy Anayi say the following:

1.“We already have neutral referees for 70% of the games but, to have all neutral referees, we need more from Scotland and Italy. That takes money, investment and time.

2.“That’s what the unions are doing and, until we get to three years time, we are going to have a neutral assistant referee and a neutral TMO for all matches.

3.“Ultimately, if you are listening to a match on television and you hear an Irish TMO speaking at a match in Ireland, as happened with Connacht versus the Ospreys, you are going to to think they are biased, even though we know they are not.

1) This is not the case. As this weekend's schedule proves - all you have to do is swap the referee in Newport for the one in Dublin, and hey presto - we have a neutral in Dublin. Yet no reason has been given for why this seemingly simple solution seems beyond the capability of the Woe14

2) This is untrue. We do not have a neutral AR and a neutral TMO for all matches. Anayi fails to deliver again.

3) Spot on. The perception of bias is there. As it is this weekend. And as the whole of the rugby fraternity can see.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 9:35 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:If there is not an issue around thetype of appointment in Dublin this weekend, then why did golden boy Anayi say the following:

1.“We already have neutral referees for 70% of the games but, to have all neutral referees, we need more from Scotland and Italy. That takes money, investment and time.

2.“That’s what the unions are doing and, until we get to three years time, we are going to have a neutral assistant referee and a neutral TMO for all matches.

3.“Ultimately, if you are listening to a match on television and you hear an Irish TMO speaking at a match in Ireland, as happened with Connacht versus the Ospreys, you are going to to think they are biased, even though we know they are not.

1) This is not the case. As this weekend's schedule proves - all you have to do is swap the referee in Newport for the one in Dublin, and hey presto - we have a neutral in Dublin. Yet no reason has been given for why this seemingly simple solution seems beyond the capability of the Woe14

2) This is untrue. We do not have a neutral AR and a neutral TMO for all matches. Anayi fails to deliver again.

3) Spot on. The perception of bias is there. As it is this weekend. And as the whole of the rugby fraternity can see.

1. You are assuming that the refs are available to swap

2. How exactly has a promise made last year to deliver something in 3 years made into failing to deliver, he has two years to deliver on his promise.

3. The whole of the rugby fraternity? Or just those who make assumptions and ignore the facts like you and your twin?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 9:55 am

If Lacey has the Leinster v Scarlets game it is because he is the most experienced referee available
This is a key game and it has gone to the highest ranking referee
Simply as nothing else to discuss
Last year Nigel Owens refereed the same match and his onw cousin was on the bench for Scarlets !

We have a problem in that neither Scotland or Italy pull their weight in providing referees.
In addition only Miteau has any real experience

In the SH tournament referees from one of the team nations referee all the time.

To continue to whinge about the nationality of referees is deeply insulting to them as individuals and quiet frankly those who
continue to do so are
BEYOND PATHETIC.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:01 am

marty2086 wrote:

1. You are assuming that the refs are available to swap

Of course I am. Because it happens most weekends. And despite contacting the Pro14, we are given no information on why this happens on a regular basis

2. How exactly has a promise made last year to deliver something in 3 years made into failing to deliver, he has two years to deliver on his promise.

Last year? Nice try. This promise was made in August 2016.That's before LAST season. He says that until we get to 3 years time (when we'll have all neutral officials) - we'll have to make do with neutral TMO's and 1 AR. He said these would be brought in in the 2016/17 season. He said we'd have all neutral officials by the 2019/20 season. He is lying and so are you.

3. The whole of the rugby fraternity? Or just those who make assumptions and ignore the facts like you and your twin?

The whole of the rugby fraternity.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:02 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
Last year Nigel Owens refereed the same match and his onw cousin was on the bench for Scarlets !

Which is equally disgusting. No 2 ways about it - any non neutral referee is a pathetic appointment in a pro league. Super rugby included.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:08 am

geoff999rugby wrote:If Lacey has the Leinster v Scarlets game it is because he is the most experienced referee available
This is a key game and it has gone to the highest ranking referee
Simply as nothing else to discuss
Last year Nigel Owens refereed the same match and his onw cousin was on the bench for Scarlets !

We have a problem in that neither Scotland or Italy pull their weight in providing referees.
In addition only Miteau has any real experience

In the SH tournament referees from one of the team nations referee all the time.

To continue to whinge about the nationality of referees is deeply insulting to them as individuals and quiet frankly those who
continue to do so are
BEYOND PATHETIC.

This last paragraph is exactly it. Couldn't agree more

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:09 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

1. You are assuming that the refs are available to swap

Of course I am. Because it happens most weekends. And despite contacting the Pro14, we are given no information on why this happens on a regular basis

And how did you contact Pro14?

RugbyFan100 wrote:
2. How exactly has a promise made last year to deliver something in 3 years made into failing to deliver, he has two years to deliver on his promise.

Last year? Nice try. This promise was made in August 2016.That's before LAST season. He  says that until we get to 3 years time (when we'll have all neutral officials) - we'll have to make do with neutral TMO's and 1 AR. He said these would be brought in in the 2016/17 season. He said we'd have all neutral officials by the 2019/20 season. He is lying and so are you.

So Im lying by pointing out he still has time to deliver but you aren't by saying he hasn't even though you yourself just pointed out his promise still has time to go?

RugbyFan100 wrote:
3. The whole of the rugby fraternity? Or just those who make assumptions and ignore the facts like you and your twin?

The whole of the rugby fraternity.

So you polled the whole of the rugby fraternity?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:09 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Last year Nigel Owens refereed the same match and his onw cousin was on the bench for Scarlets !

Which is equally disgusting. No 2 ways about it - any non neutral referee is a pathetic appointment in a pro league. Super rugby included.

Who said he isn't neutral?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by Welshmushroom on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:20 am

On a totally unrelated topic away from the Ref convo above.....

I'm surprised the South African sides haven't yet shown their hand with signings for next season.  I though a lot of players are under south African union control (via central contracting).  From what I can tell some of their better players are being moved into the S15 again.  If the experiment of South African teams joining the league is to stand any chance of being a success they will have to strengthen those squads to have any chance of long term viability (especially if they are motivated to get European Cup inclusion in the long term).  Cheetahs have been ok at home but not great away.  Kings however are no more than a semi pro side team at best at the moment and if I'm honest I doubt they would do that well in the Welsh Premiership let alone the Pro14.  

One thing I will say is that I'm glad to see how competitive the Italians have become.  Hopefully they can carry on their youth development mantra and they could become very good in a couple of seasons.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:21 am

marty2086 wrote:

And how did you contact Pro14?

I've emailed more than once, tweeted and also contacted World Rugby. Zero response.


So Im lying by pointing out he still has time to deliver but you aren't by saying he hasn't even though you yourself just pointed out his promise still has time to go?

No. You've got it wrong. The "3 years" isn't Anayi's promised timescale for neutral TMOs and ARs. It's the timescale for fully neutral officials. His own promise was neutral TMOs and q neutral AR for the 2016/17. But he's failed on that, as this weekend's appiointmenents have shown.

You got it wrong Marty. Again. Be a man and admit it. Are you a man?




So you polled the whole of the rugby fraternity?

Every rugby fan I speak to from non Pro14 countries feels the same. The tournament is a joke.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:23 am

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Last year Nigel Owens refereed the same match and his onw cousin was on the bench for Scarlets !

Which is equally disgusting. No 2 ways about it - any non neutral referee is a pathetic appointment in a pro league. Super rugby included.

Who said he isn't neutral?

Eh? Of course he's not neutral when refereeing a Welsh side. You're excelling in this thread today.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:30 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:

So Im lying by pointing out he still has time to deliver but you aren't by saying he hasn't even though you yourself just pointed out his promise still has time to go?

No. You've got it wrong. The "3 years" isn't Anayi's promised timescale for neutral TMOs and ARs. It's the timescale for fully neutral officials. His own promise was neutral TMOs and q neutral AR for the 2016/17. But he's failed on that, as this weekend's appiointmenents have shown.

You got it wrong Marty. Again. Be a man and admit it. Are you a man?

That a very Phil like comment there

Is there a neutral official and TMO at every game?


RugbyFan100 wrote:


So you polled the whole of the rugby fraternity?

Every rugby fan I speak to from non Pro14 countries feels the same. The tournament is a joke.

Im sure he watches a lot of Pro14 games

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:31 am

marty2086 wrote:

That a very Phil like comment there

Well I don't know who this Phil character is that everybody likens me to, but he seems a sensible chap.

Is there a neutral official and TMO at every game?

no

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:38 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That a very Phil like comment there

Well I don't know who this Phil character is that everybody likens me to, but he seems a sensible chap.

Not really he sat in his basement writing angry blogs and writing fiction

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Is there a neutral official and TMO at every game?

no
[/quote]

So what game hasn't had a neutral official and TMO?


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:43 am

marty2086 wrote:
So what game hasn't had a neutral official and TMO?


Leinster v Scarlets maybe?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:49 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
So what game hasn't had a neutral official and TMO?


Leinster v Scarlets maybe?

And who are the officials there?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:51 am

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
So what game hasn't had a neutral official and TMO?


Leinster v Scarlets maybe?

And who are the officials there?

Irish people.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:52 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
So what game hasn't had a neutral official and TMO?


Leinster v Scarlets maybe?

And who are the officials there?

Irish people.

In other words, you don't know

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by SecretFly on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:53 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
So what game hasn't had a neutral official and TMO?


Leinster v Scarlets maybe?

And who are the officials there?

Irish people.

Don't worry about it. Lord wants to put a Pro14 brand on them and then you'll all be satisfied. Onwards to the New Dawn.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 10:53 am

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
So what game hasn't had a neutral official and TMO?


Leinster v Scarlets maybe?

And who are the officials there?

Irish people.

In other words, you don't know

I've already posted their names in this thread. So I think that's the 3rd or 4th time you've been wrong this hour. Some going.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:05 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
So what game hasn't had a neutral official and TMO?


Leinster v Scarlets maybe?

And who are the officials there?

Irish people.

In other words, you don't know

I've already posted their names in this thread. So I think that's the 3rd or 4th time you've been wrong this hour. Some going.

So everyone has to trawl back through your crap to find things? Rolling Eyes

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:08 am

marty2086 wrote:
So everyone has to trawl back through your crap to find things? Rolling Eyes

Sigh.

Leinster vs Scarlets
17 February 2018, RDS, Dublin
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Frank Murphy (Ireland), Jonathan Peak (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by SecretFly on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:09 am

Oh he did the list alright. He's good at finding the Irish Officials lists....not so bright at finding the all Welsh Officials at Welsh based games between Welsh and Irish sides.
But there you go - those games are inadmissible as evidence that the Irish run the Pro14 for their own ends

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:11 am

SecretFly wrote:Oh he did the list alright.  He's good at finding the Irish Officials lists....not so bright at finding the all Welsh Officials at Welsh based games between Welsh and Irish sides.
But there you go - those games are inadmissible as evidence that the Irish run the Pro14 for their own ends

Its like the Irish are the only ones who actually care and are propping up the league and are the only ones pulling their weight

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:13 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
So everyone has to trawl back through your crap to find things? Rolling Eyes

Sigh.

Leinster vs Scarlets
17 February 2018, RDS, Dublin
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Frank Murphy (Ireland), Jonathan Peak (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)


So Simon McDowell is having to pull double duty this weekend? Interesting, looks like the other unions have failing to deliver enough officials, guess the league should cancel games because angry in his Cardiff basement will write an angry blog if such a travesty takes place

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:16 am

SecretFly wrote:not so bright at finding the all Welsh Officials at Welsh based games between Welsh and Irish sides.

Which game this weekend has that?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:18 am

marty2086 wrote:

So Simon McDowell is having to pull double duty this weekend? Interesting, looks like the other unions have failing to deliver enough officials, guess the league should cancel games

So what was your point in your last few messages then? Were you wrong again?

because angry in his Cardiff basement will write an angry blog if such a travesty takes place

I have zero idea what this means. Blogs, basements, Mr angry? Do tell me what you're talking about. I have never written a blog.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by SecretFly on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:20 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:not so bright at finding the all Welsh Officials at Welsh based games between Welsh and Irish sides.

Which game this weekend has that?

Which game any week had that? You go blind when it happens?
Course you do.

Take it easy. Enjoy the game at the weekend. Maybe even start a thread on it? You'd really like rugby if you actually watched it for enjoyment's sake rather than to constantly plot and plan your political agenda with. It's a good game - rugby.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:23 am

SecretFly wrote:

Which game any week had that?  You go blind when it happens?  
Course you do.  

Nope. As I said, it's equally disgusting that this non-neutrality of officials happens. I guess you chose not to read that.


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by SecretFly on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:29 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

Which game any week had that?  You go blind when it happens?  
Course you do.  

Nope. As I said, it's equally disgusting that this non-neutrality of officials happens. I guess you chose not to read that.


You don't always highlight your disgust by using that criteria though, do you? The Welsh based game with all officials being Welsh and the teams being one Welsh and one Irish? You have a blind spot for highlighting those games as examples. Fine when I or someone else points them out to you, but silence on them if we don't.

The agenda has to be serviced. In your own words, the Irish own the Pro14 and carve it up to suit the exploits of their own Provinces. Don't go getting all objective now. It's too late. Keep to your genuine arguments.... it's more noble.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:31 am

SecretFly wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

Which game any week had that?  You go blind when it happens?  
Course you do.  

Nope. As I said, it's equally disgusting that this non-neutrality of officials happens. I guess you chose not to read that.


You don't always highlight your disgust by using that criteria though, do you?  The Welsh based game with all officials being Welsh and the teams being one Welsh and one Irish?  You have a blind spot for highlighting those games as examples.  Fine when I or someone else points them out to you, but silence on them if we don't.

Out of interest, when was the lat time this happened?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:34 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

So Simon McDowell is having to pull double duty this weekend? Interesting, looks like the other unions have failing to deliver enough officials, guess the league should cancel games

So what was your point in your last few messages then? Were you wrong again?

Wrong because when asked a simple question you couldn't answer it?

What I think is wrong is the rest of the countries not supplying enough officials to the league but of course its the Irish who are at fault

But then again one game in a season without a neutral official, bloody Martin Anayi what a failure not seeing that the SA teams would be joining and not seeing resources being stretched

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:37 am

Sigh. As long as there's human refs you'll have people complaining about them. When we have robot overlords we'll complain about the programmers.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by marty2086 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:38 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sigh. As long as there's human refs you'll have people complaining about them. When we have robot overlords we'll complain about the programmers.

God forbid any of them are Irish, I just hope Apple don't make any otherwise they'll be accused of being bought by the Irish for lower taxes

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by SecretFly on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:39 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

Which game any week had that?  You go blind when it happens?  
Course you do.  

Nope. As I said, it's equally disgusting that this non-neutrality of officials happens. I guess you chose not to read that.


You don't always highlight your disgust by using that criteria though, do you?  The Welsh based game with all officials being Welsh and the teams being one Welsh and one Irish?  You have a blind spot for highlighting those games as examples.  Fine when I or someone else points them out to you, but silence on them if we don't.

Out of interest, when was the lat time this happened?

You're the stats man. You go find out. I don't care That's the difference. You care about these things, I don't. But on an exercise through one season not all that long ago, to shut up another poster that seemed to think the exact same thoughts as yourself, I trawled through the season and came up with an equal number of Wales based games officiated by an all Welsh official line up. But that's not an issue, because us Irish don't care. You do - about the Irish bit.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:40 am

marty2086 wrote:

Wrong because when asked a simple question you couldn't answer it?

I had already given the information. I very kindly, looked past your ignorance / inability to read words, and gave the same information to you again.

What I think is wrong is the rest of the countries not supplying enough officials to the league but of course its the Irish who are at fault

As has been proved, that is not an excuse you can use for this coming weekend.

And as I've repeatedly said, whatever the nationality - if the officials are all of the same nationality as one of the sides playing it becomes farcial / incompetent. Also, it becomes an even bigger problem if the entire set of officials are officiating a rugby team which their employers own and operate. This doesn't happen with Welsh teams, save for the possibility of the Dragons.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:42 am

SecretFly wrote:

You're the stats man.  You go find out.  I don't care  That's the difference.  You care about these things, I don't.  But on an exercise through one season not all that long ago, to shut up another poster that seemed to think the exact same thoughts as yourself, I trawled through the season and came up with an equal number of Wales based games officiated by an all Welsh official line up.  But that's not an issue, because us Irish don't care.  You do - about the Irish bit.  

Scarlets v Connacht - 28 September 2017: All Welsh officials.

An absolute joke.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

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