Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

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Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:08 am

When:
Sunday 04 February 2018 15:00 GMT, 16:00 (Local time)


Where:
Stadio Olimpico, Viale dei Gladiatori, Rome, Italy


TV:
ITV, FR2, TV3, DMAX, NBC


Officials:
Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Nic Berry (Australia)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)


Head to Head:
Played - 18
Wins - England 18
Tries - Italy 7, England 48


Teams:

Italy
15 Matteo MINOZZI (Zebre Rugby Club, 3 caps)*
14 Tommaso BENVENUTI (Benetton Rugby, 45 caps)*
13 Tommaso BONI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
12 Tommaso CASTELLO (Zebre Rugby Club, 5 caps)
11 Mattia BELLINI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
10 Tommaso ALLAN (Benetton Rugby, 33 caps)
9 Marcello VIOLI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 129 caps) - capitano
7 Renato GIAMMARIOLI (Zebre Rugby Club, 1 cap)*
6 Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)
5 Dean BUDD (Benetton Rugby, 6 caps)
4 Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Rugby, 99 caps)
3 Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 8 caps)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Stade Toulosain, 89 caps)
1 Andrea LOVOTTI (Zebre Rugby Club, 20 caps)*

16 Luca BIGI (Benetton Rugby, 6 caps)
17 Nicola QUAGLIO (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)*
18 Tiziano PASQUALI (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)
19 George BIAGI (Zebre Rugby Club, 19 caps)
20 Maxime MBANDA’ (Zebre Rugby Club, 11 caps)*
21 Edoardo GORI (Benetton Rugby, 65 caps)*
22 Carlo CANNA (Zebre Rugby Club, 25 caps)
23 Jayden HAYWARD (Benetton Rugby, 3 caps)


England
15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 64 caps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 28 caps)
13 Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors 8 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 53 caps)
11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 29 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 40 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers 73 caps)
1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 44 caps)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 89 caps)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 77 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 47 caps)
5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 14 caps)
6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 61 caps)
7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 59 caps)
8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 3 caps)


16 Jamie George (Saracens 20 caps)
17 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs uncapped)
18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 5 caps)
19 George Kruis (Saracens 21 caps)
20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 3 caps)
21 Danny Care (Harlequins 76 caps)
22 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 35 caps)
23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs 23 caps)


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Cumbrian on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:18 am

I was nervous a couple of week ago (not particularly about this match), but looking at the team we are putting out, it is actually looks quite strong. Throw in the Hask in a couple of weeks and we have a bit more fire power. Simmonds has the opportunity to bring a dynamism and linking play that Vunipola and Hughes don't have, especially as we are playing Italy where guile may win over brute force.

Getting excited now.
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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:23 am

Italy naming their squad at 1pm

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:27 am

It's curious. Italy have beaten all the other Six Nations sides except us, and two of the Rugby Championship sides, but I don't think many England supporters ever seriously entertain the thought of losing to Italy, even though there's only been a score between us on a few occasions. This must be how New Zealand supporters feel most of the time.

If the balance of our team is thrown off by the absence of Vunipola and Hughes, then I look forward to seeing how that changes the shape of our game. For all that Italy may be the easier challenge, you'd think Jones is looking at this fixture and Wales as a pair of games, and will want some consistency in the patterns of play across them both.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by mid_gen on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 12:17 pm

So much for all the injuries....that's a quality XV.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by nlpnlp on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 12:29 pm

I do hope EJ hasn't picked Gary Graham in the wider squad just to annoy Scotland. If he can't get onto the bench now with all the injuries and unavailability (and against Italy) then it isn't looking good for him.

Also not keen on throwing players straight into the test team who have been out injured for a prolonged period. Te'o cannot be 100% match fit and it is a slap in the face for Joseph.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 12:34 pm

nlpnlp wrote:Also not keen on throwing players straight into the test team who have been out injured for a prolonged period.  Te'o cannot be 100% match fit and it is a slap in the face for Joseph.

In general I agree. Do wonder, with JJ's current indifferent form, whether things would have been different if Slade was not now injured.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 12:53 pm

nlpnlp wrote:I do hope EJ hasn't picked Gary Graham in the wider squad just to annoy Scotland.  If he can't get onto the bench now with all the injuries and unavailability (and against Italy) then it isn't looking good for him.
It might actually be worse for him to be selected in extremis, then never again. So long as he doesn't set foot on the pitch for England, then he's still available for Scotland if they come calling.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by beshocked on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:00 pm

mid_gen wrote:So much for all the injuries....that's a quality XV.

On the contrary it's a quality 23.

Some debatable starters but the strength of the bench gives England an advantage vs many other countries.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by dummy_half on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:09 pm

So for all the talk of an injury (and suspension) crisis, the only position unarguably affected in the starting XV is number 8. I'm interested to see how Simmonds goes from the descriptions of him as an undersized dynamic 8 - not something we've fielded for a long time.

Obviously the prop replacements are inexperienced, but by all accounts are potentially good, and otherwise there is a lot of pace and dynamism on the bench.

Lawes at 6 has been tried before at international level and did not go well - be interesting to see if it's different now, when he is playing most of his club rugby there.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:11 pm

OP updated with the Italian team

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Tramptastic on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:18 pm

I'd be disappointed if Eddie Jones had asked Simmonds to fulfill the role Vunipola usually has i.e. run in to heavy traffic and make yards

you'd hope he'd be out a bit wider as a link man to the backs, more inline with how exeter use him!

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by lostinwales on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:31 pm

dummy_half wrote:So for all the talk of an injury (and suspension) crisis, the only position unarguably affected in the starting XV is number 8. I'm interested to see how Simmonds goes from the descriptions of him as an undersized dynamic 8 - not something we've fielded for a long time.

Obviously the prop replacements are inexperienced, but by all accounts are potentially good, and otherwise there is a lot of pace and dynamism on the bench.

Lawes at 6 has been tried before at international level and did not go well - be interesting to see if it's different now, when he is playing most of his club rugby there.

It will be like last year with Itoje and Lawes playing as 5.5's. The only real difference will be the numbers on their backs - as Itoje was down at 6 but played in the 2nd row in scrums (From last year Lawes said that Itoje is stronger).

1st time Lancaster played Lawes at 6 he was a bit(!) lost but maybe Eddie gives him better direction. He has been an excellent player for the last couple of years, his main fault being when he runs too upright (and then gets stripped of the ball). When his body position is right he is a good carrier.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by cascough on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:33 pm

dummy_half wrote:So for all the talk of an injury (and suspension) crisis, the only position unarguably affected in the starting XV is number 8.

This isn't a dig at you dummy_half, but that very point has been made repeatedly on these boards for a number of weeks now. Conor O Shea also (rightly) poured scorn on this notion earlier in the week.

We're in a good place and the fixture list is kind. I'm feeling better and better about this all the time.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by lostinwales on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:38 pm

cascough wrote:
dummy_half wrote:So for all the talk of an injury (and suspension) crisis, the only position unarguably affected in the starting XV is number 8.

This isn't a dig at you dummy_half, but that very point has been made repeatedly on these boards for a number of weeks now. Conor O Shea also (rightly) poured scorn on this notion earlier in the week.  

We're in a good place and the fixture list is kind. I'm feeling better and better about this all the time.

Yes - we could not want for a better schedule. France away should be hard but probably won't. The Scotland game will be difficult but we are the right kind of team to take them on- and Ireland will have huge pressure on them if they arrive at Twickenham with 4 wins.

For all the discussion by the pundits about who is best and worst in the 6N they seem to have ignored the simple facts about the playing schedule. They have also bought into the Irish big time.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Poorfour on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:44 pm

lostinwales wrote:
dummy_half wrote:So for all the talk of an injury (and suspension) crisis, the only position unarguably affected in the starting XV is number 8. I'm interested to see how Simmonds goes from the descriptions of him as an undersized dynamic 8 - not something we've fielded for a long time.

Obviously the prop replacements are inexperienced, but by all accounts are potentially good, and otherwise there is a lot of pace and dynamism on the bench.

Lawes at 6 has been tried before at international level and did not go well - be interesting to see if it's different now, when he is playing most of his club rugby there.

It will be like last year with Itoje and Lawes playing as 5.5's. The only real difference will be the numbers on their backs - as  Itoje was down at 6 but played in the 2nd row in scrums (From last year Lawes said that Itoje is stronger).

1st time Lancaster played Lawes at 6 he was a bit(!) lost but maybe Eddie gives him better direction. He has been an excellent player for the last couple of years, his main fault being when he runs too upright (and then gets stripped of the ball). When his body position is right he is a good carrier.

The big difference this year is that they've got Robshaw to do all the traditional flanker work. I'd expect Lawes to be the primary carrier and enforcer (hence he's got the 6 shirt and not Itoje), Simmonds to link and possibly be one of the "1s" on the wings in attack, and Robshaw to run around tidying everything up. I'll stick my neck out and say that I'd expect this year's patched up back row to go better than last year's.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by lostinwales on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:48 pm

Poorfour wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
dummy_half wrote:So for all the talk of an injury (and suspension) crisis, the only position unarguably affected in the starting XV is number 8. I'm interested to see how Simmonds goes from the descriptions of him as an undersized dynamic 8 - not something we've fielded for a long time.

Obviously the prop replacements are inexperienced, but by all accounts are potentially good, and otherwise there is a lot of pace and dynamism on the bench.

Lawes at 6 has been tried before at international level and did not go well - be interesting to see if it's different now, when he is playing most of his club rugby there.

It will be like last year with Itoje and Lawes playing as 5.5's. The only real difference will be the numbers on their backs - as  Itoje was down at 6 but played in the 2nd row in scrums (From last year Lawes said that Itoje is stronger).

1st time Lancaster played Lawes at 6 he was a bit(!) lost but maybe Eddie gives him better direction. He has been an excellent player for the last couple of years, his main fault being when he runs too upright (and then gets stripped of the ball). When his body position is right he is a good carrier.

The big difference this year is that they've got Robshaw to do all the traditional flanker work. I'd expect Lawes to be the primary carrier and enforcer (hence he's got the 6 shirt and not Itoje), Simmonds to link and possibly be one of the "1s" on the wings in attack, and Robshaw to run around tidying everything up. I'll stick my neck out and say that I'd expect this year's patched up back row to go better than last year's.

Robshaw solves

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:55 pm

Can't wait for JJ to come on and score a couple in the last 20 mins.
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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 3:54 pm


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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by doctor_grey on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 10:22 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
dummy_half wrote:So for all the talk of an injury (and suspension) crisis, the only position unarguably affected in the starting XV is number 8. I'm interested to see how Simmonds goes from the descriptions of him as an undersized dynamic 8 - not something we've fielded for a long time.

Obviously the prop replacements are inexperienced, but by all accounts are potentially good, and otherwise there is a lot of pace and dynamism on the bench.

Lawes at 6 has been tried before at international level and did not go well - be interesting to see if it's different now, when he is playing most of his club rugby there.

It will be like last year with Itoje and Lawes playing as 5.5's. The only real difference will be the numbers on their backs - as  Itoje was down at 6 but played in the 2nd row in scrums (From last year Lawes said that Itoje is stronger).

1st time Lancaster played Lawes at 6 he was a bit(!) lost but maybe Eddie gives him better direction. He has been an excellent player for the last couple of years, his main fault being when he runs too upright (and then gets stripped of the ball). When his body position is right he is a good carrier.

The big difference this year is that they've got Robshaw to do all the traditional flanker work. I'd expect Lawes to be the primary carrier and enforcer (hence he's got the 6 shirt and not Itoje), Simmonds to link and possibly be one of the "1s" on the wings in attack, and Robshaw to run around tidying everything up. I'll stick my neck out and say that I'd expect this year's patched up back row to go better than last year's.

Robshaw solves
Only if truly healthy. Not healthy in Rugby terms, but truly recovered.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 1:08 am

Shirley Teo would do better from the bench...or typical Jones challenging every player to prove their selection......I'm of the former and fear this bares a resemblance to the BV Hughes cockup last game round.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by lostinwales on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 1:35 am

kingelderfield wrote:Shirley Teo would do better from the bench...or typical Jones challenging every player to prove their selection......I'm of the former and fear this bares a resemblance to the BV Hughes cockup last game round.
I dunno I would have thought Shirley would be better playing for the Women's team

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 8:57 am

Don't call me Surely........

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 12:42 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
nlpnlp wrote:I do hope EJ hasn't picked Gary Graham in the wider squad just to annoy Scotland.  If he can't get onto the bench now with all the injuries and unavailability (and against Italy) then it isn't looking good for him.
It might actually be worse for him to be selected in extremis, then never again. So long as he doesn't set foot on the pitch for England, then he's still available for Scotland if they come calling.

So Eddie Jones will sling Graham on the scrap heap like he did Mark Wilson.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 11:26 am

Weather forecast promising for running rugby

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/0/3169070

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by maestegmafia on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:03 pm

Bright start by Watson

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Scottrf on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:04 pm

Such a smooth move. Quality.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:04 pm

That was a very good try - 'simple' rugby perfectly executed

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by stub on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:05 pm

Great start - looking like Eng are up for it.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Scottrf on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:08 pm

Clearing out off their feet at every ruck.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:11 pm

Well people are going to get their wish at looking at a 3rd scrum half.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:12 pm

Passing is very clean, impressive start.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by mid_gen on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well people are going to get their wish at looking at a 3rd scrum half.

Was just coming to post the same. Can't see Youngs being back this season, looked bad. Robson up next?

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Scottrf on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:14 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well people are going to get their wish at looking at a 3rd scrum half.

Don't think anyone asked for it to be against Wales in the 6 Nations.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by The Oracle on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:14 pm

Just realised I was posting on the wrong thread! Doh!

Looked nasty that. Ligaments? Can’t see Youngs coming back on after that.
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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by maestegmafia on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:15 pm

Lots of stoppage for Ben Young’s must be a nasty break!

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by whocares on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:16 pm

Knee injuries seem to be the flavour of the month Sad

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by maestegmafia on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:16 pm

2 touches two tries for Watson?

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:18 pm

Watson - incredible pace (and he's in my fantasy team Very Happy )

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by eirebilly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:18 pm

Should that not also be a yellow card? Just because England scored the try is no reason to not punish cynical play.
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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:19 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Watson - incredible pace (and he's in my fantasy team Very Happy )

Farrell is my Kicker so he better get his kicking boots on soon!

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by mid_gen on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:24 pm

Well, no questions about the physicality so far, defence is brutal, forwards well on top. Watson showing some class.

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by lostinwales on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:24 pm

And May teeing up Watson both times

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by maestegmafia on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:27 pm

Really good phases and nice finish by Italy

Maybe it’s not going to be the thrashing it looked like it should be

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:27 pm

Good try - bit of defensive weakness out wide though?

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by stub on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:27 pm

Game on....

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by mid_gen on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:28 pm

Lovely score from Italy. Best 20 minutes of rugby of the weekend so far!

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by maestegmafia on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:29 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good try - bit of defensive weakness out wide though?

May was turned inside out by the last pass

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by maestegmafia on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:30 pm

England lacking a solid defender around the rucks...

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

Post by Heaf on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:31 pm

Looked like a forward pass on the left wing in the build-up though ...

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Re: Italy vs England - Matchday Thread

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