6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

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6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by BigGee on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 1:36 pm

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SCOTLAND v FRANCE
11 February 2018
KO: 15:00 GMT
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on [BBC Jockland]

Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Assistant 1: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 2: Paul Williams (New Zealand)
TMO: Rowan Kitt (England)

A. Head to Head

91 Played 91
35 Won 53
3 Drawn 3
53 Lost 35
1,118 Points 1,302

B. Recent Form

8 March 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
17 – 19 to France

7 February 2015
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
15 – 8 to France

5 September 2015
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
19 – 16 to France

13 March 2016
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
29 – 18 to Scotland

12 February 2017
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
22 – 16 to France

C. Teams

SCOTLAND 

Stuart Hogg, Tommy Seymour, Huw Jones, Peter Horne (all Glasgow), Sean Maitland (Saracens), Finn Russell (Glasgow), Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne); Gordon Reid (London Irish), Stuart McInally, Simon Berghan, Grant Gilchrist (all Edinburgh), Jonny Gray (Glasgow), John Barclay (Scarlets, capt), Hamish Watson (Edinburgh), Ryan Wilson (Glasgow).

Replacements: Scott Lawson (Newcastle), Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow), Jon Welsh (Newcastle), Ben Toolis (Edinburgh), Dave Denton (Worcester), Ali Price (Glasgow), Chris Harris (Newcastle), Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh).

FRANCE


Palis; Thomas, Doumayrou, Lamerat, Vakatawa; Beauxis, Machenaud; Poirot, Guirado, Slimani, Itturia, Vahaamahina , Lauret , Tauleigne.

Replacements: Pelissie, Ben Arous, Gomes Sa, Gabrillagues, Serin, Belleau, Fall.

***


What is worse? Getting utterly thrashed by a rampant Welsh team away from home, when everyone (except the Welsh clearly) saw Scotland as the up and coming team about to do great things in this tournament; or to lose a game with a drop goal on the last kick of the game to an Irish team who had just kept the ball for 31 phases!

Answers on a postcard please!

The truth is neither scenario is a good one and it is hard to guess how they will play on the minds of the respective teams over the coming week.

The good thing is that in the 6N, redemption is potentially only a game away and both teams have another chance at it this coming weekend.

Both teams look like they will have to make significant changes, France due to injury and Scotland because they were so cr*p yesterday. How that will pan out on the game is anyone's guess.

I am not however expecting to hear to many optimistic noises coming from the Scotland camp or their fans and media this week. Let us go back to being the underdogs, it seems to be the only mindset that can get us to play well!

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:05 am

People have been commenting online about his reaction to his mistakes - i.e. he was smiling/laughing. What do people think about that?

Again we could say 'that's just Finn' but it doesn't look great that he is laughing after making such a big mistake as missing touch. I'm fairly sure he's not 'laughing' because he thinks it is funny, and there was the odd look of exasperation/clapping his hands in frustration, but it doens't give the impression that he's fully focused and determined not to make the same mistake.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by TJ on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:09 am

I think it was embarrassment the smile -some folk do smile when embarrassed / caught out in a mistake. He also plays best with a smile on his face to a great extent.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by The Oracle on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:15 am

I agree it was exasperation rather than laughing, RDW. Frustration too. A sort of 'could this be going any worse for me' look of disbelief.

I remember the uproar when Colin Charvis came off against Italy and was smiling as we were losing (I think) - the media went crazy - but it was the same sort of thing.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:18 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:People have been commenting online about his reaction to his mistakes - i.e. he was smiling/laughing.  What do people think about that?

Again we could say 'that's just Finn' but it doesn't look great that he is laughing after making such a big mistake as missing touch. I'm fairly sure he's not 'laughing' because he thinks it is funny, and there was the odd look of exasperation/clapping his hands in frustration, but it doens't give the impression that he's fully focused and determined not to make the same mistake.

I don't mind him smiling at the anthems, on the pitch or enjoying his rugby. So back in your bloody box SCW thumbsdown tomato monkey

But Dancing in the dugouts, glad we havent seen much of that and like I said he needs to take that grin off his face when we are under the cosh. Seems to lack the focus and intensity that is sometimes required as a test fly half. Being the joker in the pack is fine, but there are times when it isn't. I have yet to see the serious Finn, and his start at 10 may not be a certainty for much longer. He needs to realize that and adjust how his attitude is perceived by the fans and pundits.

I would have been much happier with Hogg style frustrated rant rather than a cheeky smile.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by beshocked on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:18 am

If I was Scotland I would desperately look to shore up the defence. I've been mentioning the Scottish defence for quite a while now.

I've been told there was nothing to worry about but yet again the first 2 games of the 6 nations proved me correct.

Can't understand why there's no effort to fix it. You won't be challenging for top 4 unless you do something about it.

Finn Russell epitomes the good and bad of this Scottish side - entertaining to watch but lack the consistency to be the best.

Scotland would beat France because a ) France are low on confidence (if France beat Ireland might have been different), b) Scotland are much more comfortable at Murrayfield. c) Scotland beat France in 2016 so know what a win vs France is like.

Still a win vs France, doesn't paper over Scotland's weaknesses.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by EST on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:23 am

I think Russell has to play, he is still our best option by a country mile, when he gets things right. This is really the first time in his career he has had a serious dip in form, long term I hope this is the harsh lesson he needs, in conjunction with his Racing Move, that makes him step up to the next level - he simply has to cut out the stupid errors from his game and take a more pragmatic approach, when necessary.

Looking ahead to the England game, if we don't sort out our defensive shape (which was atrocious for the Wales game and first half of the France game), then we are going to get absolutely shafted. Ford/Farrell/Jospeh will have a field day unless we sort it out, worringly it looks every bit as leaky as it did in the Twickenham game last year.


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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:29 am

beshocked wrote:If I was Scotland I would desperately look to shore up the defence. I've been mentioning the Scottish defence for quite a while now.

I've been told there was nothing to worry about but yet again the first 2 games of the 6 nations proved me correct.

Can't understand why there's no effort to fix it.
You won't be challenging for top 4 unless you do something about it.

Finn Russell epitomes the good and bad of this Scottish side - entertaining to watch but lack the consistency to be the best.

Scotland would beat France because a ) France are low on confidence (if France beat Ireland might have been different), b) Scotland are much more comfortable at Murrayfield. c) Scotland beat France in 2016 so know what a win vs France is like.

Still a win vs France, doesn't paper over Scotland's weaknesses.

Unless you are involved with the Scottish coaching setup, I'm not sure how you know there is no effort being made to fix the Scotland defence. It's probably something that they are working on, however without arguably 2 of your first choice and most physical centres (Dunbar & Taylor) the defensive structure might be a bit weaker. It's not as if our defense is torn to shreds every game.

We probably could put a bunch of big defending lumps into the midfield, we'll not win any more games in fact we'll win less!!! Sean Lamont, Graeme Morrison, Nick DeLuca, Simon Danielli, Nikki Walker great in defense but we were still getting beaten in the 6N.

As RDW points out the bulk of this team will have at least 2 RWCs in them. Defensive structure is something that can be improved with training etc, and IMO will come. Training an attack is much harder. Its much easier to train attackers to defend than defenders to attack.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by EST on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:34 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
beshocked wrote:If I was Scotland I would desperately look to shore up the defence. I've been mentioning the Scottish defence for quite a while now.

I've been told there was nothing to worry about but yet again the first 2 games of the 6 nations proved me correct.

Can't understand why there's no effort to fix it.
You won't be challenging for top 4 unless you do something about it.

Finn Russell epitomes the good and bad of this Scottish side - entertaining to watch but lack the consistency to be the best.

Scotland would beat France because a ) France are low on confidence (if France beat Ireland might have been different), b) Scotland are much more comfortable at Murrayfield. c) Scotland beat France in 2016 so know what a win vs France is like.

Still a win vs France, doesn't paper over Scotland's weaknesses.

Unless you are involved with the Scottish coaching setup, I'm not sure how you know there is no effort being made to fix the Scotland defence. It's probably something that they are working on, however without arguably 2 of your first choice and most physical centres (Dunbar & Taylor) the defensive structure might be a bit weaker. It's not as if our defense is torn to shreds every game.

We probably could put a bunch of big defending lumps into the midfield, we'll not win any more games in fact we'll win less!!! Sean Lamont, Graeme Morrison, Nick DeLuca, Simon Danielli, Nikki Walker great in defense but we were still getting beaten in the 6N.

As RDW points out the bulk of this team will have at least 2 RWCs in them. Defensive structure is something that can be improved with training etc, and IMO will come. Training an attack is much harder. Its much easier to train attackers to defend than defenders to attack.

I'm with Beshocked on this one Radge. We have looked like a bunch of amateurs in defence this 6N - people shooting out of the line (Russell), outside defence biting in, tip on passes leaving gaping holes for AWJ/Hill to waltz through, dog legs all over the place. As soon as the ball goes wide after a couple of phases, we look very vulnerable. I'm especially concerned, as we saw what the England midfield did to us last year - and things don't seem to have noticeably improved.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by Recwatcher16 on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:35 am

Thought Scotland thoroughly deserved their win but France must, must be exasperated at their lack of discipline. Could be bad news for England in Paris in a months time.

I see Nathan Hughes & Sinkler are back fit and Haskell and Marler will be back in the selection mix too. Apparently Daly might be fit to play an AP game next week There's four meaty ball carriers and a pacy player for Jones to ponder....

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:40 am

Good win for Scotland, they were the better side. France were giving pens away because they were so knackered.

Also, can we now see that Hogg, whilst he does the nice things the best in the NH, his defending his very suspect, he was a turn style for Teddy Thomas's first try, and was out of position for the second.

All in all though, a nice confidence booster for Scotland, thoroughly deserved.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by tigertattie on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:41 am

Scotland's defense is actually not too bad on the whole, our issue is our midfield defense as we're lacking a competent defensive marshal which is the role that Alex Dunbar usually plays.

When you watch Dunbar playing, when we don;t have the ball, he's generally much closer to Finn than likes of Horne or (bless his efforts) Jones at 12. What Dunbar does though is he communicates with the backline and keeps things steady. You won't see Finn flying out the line when Dunbar is beside him and you'll see that Dunbar will either bring Jones in closer or tell him to go wider when needed.

The first French try is an example of this. How on earth Russell was defending the wing and why it was Pete Horne that had to push out to try and cover for the missed tackle is beyond me. Maitland and Huw Jones should have been the ones out there!

If Dunbar or Taylor are fit in two weeks then they start ahead of Horne in my opinion, despite his efforts on Sunday. We just need that back line organised and talking to each other.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by TJ on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:44 am

I thought the defence much better against France. Hogg was facing a 4 on one for the first try and was not out of position for the second

the sending one player shooting up has been very successful for Glasgow and in the past for scotland but it needs to be co ordinated. Thats how we have got so many interceptions. Its more of the high risk high reward gameplan.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by beshocked on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:46 am

ruggerradge defensive weakness isn't down to to just a lack of midfield generals.

Yes your defence has been torn to shreds almost every game. You have been conceding on average over 25 points a game in the AIs and 6 nations.

Your defence is not good - the stats don't lie about that.


I don't particularly want to be critical of Scotland, you've become entertainers, neutrals now like to watch Scotland play. Unfortunately you are entertaining to watch because you are easier to break down defensively also.

Teddy Thomas first try was entertaining but should have not been allowed to beat 3 men to score.

Thank you EST.


Last edited by beshocked on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:49 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by Scottrf on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:46 am

tigertattie wrote:Scotland's defense is actually not too bad on the whole, our issue is our midfield defense as we're lacking a competent defensive marshal which is the role that Alex Dunbar usually plays.

Well, it's been a year since you've conceded fewer than 19 to a team not named Italy.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:50 am

TJ wrote:I thought the defence much better against France.  Hogg was facing a 4 on one for the first try and was not out of position for the second

the sending one player shooting up has been very successful for Glasgow and in the past for scotland but it needs to be co ordinated.  Thats how we have got so many interceptions.   Its more of the high risk high reward gameplan.

I would agree with all that, although there's s still a lot of improvement required, particularly in our wide defence which was far too passive.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by EST on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:54 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
TJ wrote:I thought the defence much better against France.  Hogg was facing a 4 on one for the first try and was not out of position for the second

the sending one player shooting up has been very successful for Glasgow and in the past for scotland but it needs to be co ordinated.  Thats how we have got so many interceptions.   Its more of the high risk high reward gameplan.

I would agree with all that, although there's s still a lot of improvement required, particularly in our wide defence which was far too passive.

I agree it was much better in the second half, but the first half was every bit as bad as the Wales game. I also don't think Hogg can be blamed for the 1-1 tackle, Russell on the other hand.....


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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by TJ on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:55 am

Aye it was a powder puff tackle from Russell

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by highland_scot on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:58 am

Worth pointing out that our defence was poopie and Alex Dunbar returning isn't the silver bullet to correct this. Let's remember Dunbar and Jones played together in the centre when England put 60 on us last year.

Matt Taylor needs to start earning his paycheck!

Also disappointing that our lineout, which has in the past managed to be a high point, is almost as flaky as Finn...

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by beshocked on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 11:59 am

Russell is a problem - he's obviously a talented player but makes far too many mistakes.

He has 34 caps and he's missing touch with a penalty.... He's making mistakes you expect from a rookie who only has a handful of caps.

I guess the issue, Scotland is there's no alternative making a big case to replace him.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by tigertattie on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:25 pm

beshocked wrote:Russell is a problem - he's obviously a talented player but makes far too many mistakes.

He has 34 caps and he's missing touch with a penalty.... He's making mistakes you expect from a rookie who only has a handful of caps.

I guess the issue, Scotland is there's no alternative making a big case to replace him.

Russell has a bit of maverick syndrome. Put simply, it comes across that he believes the team is there to do what he wants them to do and if Scotland are going to win then it needs to be him that pulls the stings to move towards the victory.

Part of this should be encouraged as a 10 really does need to guide the team, but he also needs to learn that it's a team game and he can rely on others to makes things happen too.

He doesn't need to get penalty kicks to the 5m line (and the miss them) all the time. Sometimes just get the kick to the 22 and let your forwards get you the rest of the way.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by The Oracle on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:30 pm

I'm reading reports that the French team plane was grounded at Edinburgh airport as the police were looking for a few French players involved in a bar brawl. 7 players being questioned, apparently.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:33 pm

The Oracle wrote:I'm reading reports that the French team plane was grounded at Edinburgh airport as the police were looking for a few French players involved in a bar brawl.  7 players being questioned, apparently.

That's all the French need. I wonder if they were brawling with each other or with others in the bar?

Professional maybe, still rugby players at heart!

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:34 pm

and hopefully Ryan Wilson was no-where near the bar!

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:44 pm

One of them was Picamoles - who would pick a fight with him??

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by R!skysports on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:46 pm

There was rumers of a crayon in the premises


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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Good win for Scotland, they were the better side. France were giving pens away because they were so knackered.

Also, can we now see that Hogg, whilst he does the nice things the best in the NH, his defending his very suspect, he was a turn style for Teddy Thomas's first try, and was out of position for the second.

All in all though, a nice confidence booster for Scotland, thoroughly deserved.

Still banging that old drum? He actully did more to slow Tomas down than Russell who got stepped really badly on the wing. Halfpenny misses those covering tackles too, and often gets a HIA while he is at it.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:57 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Still banging that old drum? He actully did more to slow Tomas down than Russell who got stepped really badly on the wing. Halfpenny misses those covering tackles too, and often gets a HIA while he is at it.


picard

What has Halfpenny got to with Hoggs suspect defence ?

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 12:58 pm

If getting stepped by teddy Thomas is a sign of suspect defence I'm not sure there's a full back with good defence anywhere.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 1:18 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Still banging that old drum? He actully did more to slow Tomas down than Russell who got stepped really badly on the wing. Halfpenny misses those covering tackles too, and often gets a HIA while he is at it.


picard

What has Halfpenny got to with Hoggs suspect defence ?

Erm because he has a suspect defense too, but because he is Welsh he gets away with it, I thought it was obvious.

LD, seriously I know you are smarting from defeat to England, but seriously noone on here is saying Scotland are world beaters and are going to win the 6N or anything like that, getting battered by Wales at Cardiff doesn't make us rubbish, beating France doesn't make us invincible.

As much as Eddie Jones is a bit of a cretin, he does raise a point. The media in the country are a bloody disgrace. I listened to the 5Live pod cast last week and our defeat at Cardiff meant we had to rip up our play book that had served us pretty well over the last 18 months and Scotland were having another "false dawn". It's bloody Lazy journalism and hyperbole of the highest order. Winning at Wales is hard for any team, England only managed it in the last 3 minutes or something last year. It's a hard place to play and I look forward to Scotland having another crack in November!

You seem to think that we need to be reminded about our defensive frailtaies. We don't, most of us on here know and watch the likes of Hogg and Seymour and others play week in week out. We don't need you coming on here based on 1 missed tackle using it as evidence to back up your strange assertion that he can't tackle. It's a weaker area of his game, but it is not weak. He's still just a youngster at 25 and will be able to work on it as his career progresses!
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 1:29 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Still banging that old drum? He actully did more to slow Tomas down than Russell who got stepped really badly on the wing. Halfpenny misses those covering tackles too, and often gets a HIA while he is at it.


picard

What has Halfpenny got to with Hoggs suspect defence ?

Erm because he has a suspect defense too, but because he is Welsh he gets away with it, I thought it was obvious.

LD, seriously I know you are smarting from defeat to England, but seriously noone on here is saying Scotland are world beaters and are going to win the 6N or anything like that, getting battered by Wales at Cardiff doesn't make us rubbish, beating France doesn't make us invincible.

As much as Eddie Jones is a bit of a cretin, he does raise a point. The media in the country are a bloody disgrace. I listened to the 5Live pod cast last week and our defeat at Cardiff meant we had to rip up our play book that had served us pretty well over the last 18 months and Scotland were having another "false dawn". It's bloody Lazy journalism and hyperbole of the highest order. Winning at Wales is hard for any team, England only managed it in the last 3 minutes or something last year. It's a hard place to play and I look forward to Scotland having another crack in November!

You seem to think that we need to be reminded about our defensive frailtaies. We don't, most of us on here know and watch the likes of Hogg and Seymour and others play week in week out. We don't need you coming on here based on 1 missed tackle using it as evidence to back up your strange assertion that he can't tackle. It's a weaker area of his game, but it is not weak. He's still just a youngster at 25 and will be able to work on it as his career progresses!

What is this rant about ?

I have not mentioned Scotland's defence, I was just backing up what I was being told was nonsense during the build up to our game with you, that Hogg is not as good as what you all think he is.

If you read it properly I actually said it was a deserved win for Scotland, but Hogg was at fault for both tries, but as has been pointed out to me, he was not on his own, Finn Russel was at fault as well. But he has more to think about than his tackling ability.

Also, I am not smarting at our loss on the weekend, if you go on the match thread you will see for yourself.

God, my opinion of some of the Scottish members on here is taking a nose dive this 6N. Rolling Eyes

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 1:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Still banging that old drum? He actully did more to slow Tomas down than Russell who got stepped really badly on the wing. Halfpenny misses those covering tackles too, and often gets a HIA while he is at it.


picard

What has Halfpenny got to with Hoggs suspect defence ?

Erm because he has a suspect defense too, but because he is Welsh he gets away with it, I thought it was obvious.

LD, seriously I know you are smarting from defeat to England, but seriously noone on here is saying Scotland are world beaters and are going to win the 6N or anything like that, getting battered by Wales at Cardiff doesn't make us rubbish, beating France doesn't make us invincible.

As much as Eddie Jones is a bit of a cretin, he does raise a point. The media in the country are a bloody disgrace. I listened to the 5Live pod cast last week and our defeat at Cardiff meant we had to rip up our play book that had served us pretty well over the last 18 months and Scotland were having another "false dawn". It's bloody Lazy journalism and hyperbole of the highest order. Winning at Wales is hard for any team, England only managed it in the last 3 minutes or something last year. It's a hard place to play and I look forward to Scotland having another crack in November!

You seem to think that we need to be reminded about our defensive frailtaies. We don't, most of us on here know and watch the likes of Hogg and Seymour and others play week in week out. We don't need you coming on here based on 1 missed tackle using it as evidence to back up your strange assertion that he can't tackle. It's a weaker area of his game, but it is not weak. He's still just a youngster at 25 and will be able to work on it as his career progresses!

What is this rant about ?

I have not mentioned Scotland's defence, I was just backing up what I was being told was nonsense during the build up to our game with you, that Hogg is not as good as what you all think he is.

If you read it properly I actually said it was a deserved win for Scotland, but Hogg was at fault for both tries, but as has been pointed out to me, he was not on his own, Finn Russel was at fault as well. But he has more to think about than his tackling ability.

Also, I am not smarting at our loss on the weekend, if you go on the match thread you will see for yourself.

God, my opinion of some of the Scottish members on here is taking a nose dive this 6N. Rolling Eyes

My rant wasn't directed at you per se, apologies if it came across that way. However I beleive Montpellier have made a £1,000,000 offer for Hogg, so someone thinks he is as good as we all think he is.

You also say Hogg is at fault for both tries. 2 people missed Thomas before Hogg had to try and change direction when he cut inside. Russell missed the first, and Horne missed the Second, but Hogg is at Fault... Ok... Erm

Second try was a wicked bounce that Laidlaw was covering, Hogg went down the wing to cover the gap that Bauxis' terrific miss pass opened up on the wing for Thomas, again Hogg went to cover when Thomas kicked over his head before Hogg could get there, again I'm not sure how he was at fault.. Rolling Eyes

But fair enough Hogg can't tackle. We better drop him and see if Mike Brown has a scottish granny or something picard
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 1:49 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:However I beleive Montpellier have made a £1,000,000 offer for Hogg, so someone thinks he is as good as we all think he is.

Because Hogg is a bloody good player, that's why, I rate him better than Halfpenny, but there is another level of players, Isreal Dagg and Liam Williams, Hogg still has to work to get to their level.

The rest I cannot be bothered to argue with you about. OK

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by Scottrf on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 1:54 pm

Dagg doesn't even play FB anymore.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by R!skysports on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 2:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:However I beleive Montpellier have made a £1,000,000 offer for Hogg, so someone thinks he is as good as we all think he is.

Because Hogg is a bloody good player, that's why, I rate him better than Halfpenny, but there is another level of players, Isreal Dagg and Liam Williams, Hogg still has to work to get to their level.

The rest I cannot be bothered to argue with you about. OK

Liam Williams???

Not sure he has got 2 x 6 nations player of the tournament in a row - Not even sure what position is his best position - a very good player, but seriously come on......the best in the world (which is what you are saying as that is the step up) lol

I get fed up with people watching an 80 min game and point one second of play saying that is proof he is not as good as people who say he is - and he has suspect defense (even if he does 4 try saving tackles in a row)

he was not at fault for either of those tries. The first he might have have a 50/ 50 chance to make that tackle (Someone running full pelt and you covering after 2 team mates have missed their tackles) - but most people would have struggled and the second was a 4 on 1 - how the heck is he at fault for that - he actually did the right thing and came up to force them to make a play - it was actually laidlaw at fault as he covered and got back in plenty of time, but did not dive on the ball (In fact that is a classic example of good defense - make them play and know the cover is there to sweep up)

Some people just want to knock certain players and spend the entire time looking for errors -

PS Liam Williams lol




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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by furra_linee on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 2:09 pm

Anyway.... back to Ecosse
It would be completely excusable to drop Russell from the 23 completely. He won't be the difference between winning and losing against England. I'm no psychologist but 3 missed penalty touches betray something seriously wrong mentally.


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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 2:22 pm

BigGee wrote:
The Oracle wrote:I'm reading reports that the French team plane was grounded at Edinburgh airport as the police were looking for a few French players involved in a bar brawl.  7 players being questioned, apparently.

That's all the French need. I wonder if they were brawling with each other or with others in the bar?

Professional maybe, still rugby players at heart!

It was worse - they were questioned for more than just a brawl

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-43034102

Sounds like there's no case to answer though

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by TJ on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 2:24 pm

NO crime committed apparantly and let go is the latest.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by EST on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 2:27 pm

furra_linee wrote:Anyway.... back to Ecosse
It would be completely excusable to drop Russell from the 23 completely. He won't be the difference between winning and losing against England. I'm no psychologist but 3 missed penalty touches betray something seriously wrong mentally.


Around the time of the Wales game, I read that Keith Russell (Finn's dad), who was formerly the head of Domestic Rugby at the SRU, was taking the SRU to an employment tribunal over his dismissal last year.....don't want to get too conspiratorial, but that is a bit of a distraction.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by furra_linee on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 2:33 pm

EST wrote:
furra_linee wrote:Anyway.... back to Ecosse
It would be completely excusable to drop Russell from the 23 completely. He won't be the difference between winning and losing against England. I'm no psychologist but 3 missed penalty touches betray something seriously wrong mentally.


Around the time of the Wales game, I read that Keith Russell (Finn's dad), who was formerly the head of Domestic Rugby at the SRU, was taking the SRU to an employment tribunal over his dismissal last year.....don't want to get too conspiratorial, but that is a bit of a distraction.

Maybe. Pete Horne's Dad is also banned for about a year for his part in that Howe of Fife initiation ceremony.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by jimbopip on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 5:06 pm

First things first; I came on here to discuss yesterday's game, hoping to find the usual mix of good humoured banter, lapses into surrealism and occasional insights loaded with common sense. Unfortunately, I'm wading through post after post of drivel about my todger's shinier than yours. Stop it. If you can't maintain the standards which we in the Scottish nomenclatura are accustomed to then bugger off and annoy someone else. GC, RDW you know I am a very mild mannered, sober poster but this is getting tedious. If I want to be bored I can stay awake at work. Now sort it out.

On a rugby theme....

Michael Atherton has a collection of his Sunday Times pieces, I think called Glorious Summers And Winters Of Discontent, which while it is mainly about cricket has one or two articles which should be of interest to all sports fans.

One thing Atherton keeps reflecting on is the relationship between technique and talent. In short; no matter how innately talented an individual is, if he constantly has to focus on how to hold the ball or where to strike it his talent will be inhibited and compromised. Conversely, if an individual practices repetitively  it will allow his technique to be so ingrained that it will never breakdown under any pressure and this frees the mind to concentrate on making the right decisions and carrying them out successfully. Phil Bennett didn't think about how to sidestep four All Blacks when they charged at him under his posts before setting up THAT try. He trusted his instincts which had been honed through hours and hours and hours of practise. When Finn Russell missed that penalty to touch yesterday he was in almost the same position as when he missed two to touch against Sarries last season. Chris Patterson's explanation of "the wind blowing it back in at that corner" was almost a verbatim retelling of what the Sarries fans around us said then. Now, I think Russell could be our best 10 since John Rutherford but Dan Parks would have made that kick on Sunday, every time. Someone needs to have a full and frank exchange of views with Finn about what exactly is expected of a 10.

Which brings me to my second point.
My favourite essay by Atherton is one entitled The Gospel According To John Wooden. Wooden was a basketball coach in the USA as well known for the high personal and moral standards he demanded from himself and his players as he was for winning trophies (which he did fairly regularly).The All Black's philosophy of, "if we have these guys from the time they're boys until they're grown up...and they don't become better people then we're just wasting our time" is pure JW. Toonie, apparently, is a huge fan of the Wooden philosophy and one of its key beliefs is that no individual, however talented, is bigger than the team. Taking both the captain and the "star" player off with twenty minutes to go in a match that is very much in the balance is straight out of the JW playbook. Remember J Barclay is not long back from a period in limbo because he fell out with a previous coach. Toonie wouldn't care about that: on Saturday he needed to be replaced for the good of the team. So he was. Finn Russell may be the most naturally talented 10 we have had since Toonie, but if he's not reliable he won't play.

I do hope this has dragged us back into discussing rugby instead of the drivel we've had over the past few days. kiss

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by SecretFly on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 5:18 pm

jimbopip wrote:First things first; I came on here to discuss yesterday's game, hoping to find the usual mix of good humoured banter, lapses into surrealism and occasional insights loaded with common sense. Unfortunately, I'm wading through post after post of drivel about my todger's shinier than yours. Stop it. If you can't maintain the standards which we in the Scottish nomenclatura  are accustomed to then bugger off and annoy someone else. GC, RDW you know I am a very mild mannered, sober poster but this is getting tedious. If I want to be bored I can stay awake at work. Now sort it out.


Welcome to the World of BeinginContention. You have to take the slings and arrows that goes with it. Can't have things all nice and sweet and homely with just gentle Scottish types chewing the conversational cud amongst themselves.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by jimbopip on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 5:20 pm

Thanks for proving my point. picard

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by SecretFly on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 6:22 pm

What point? That you can't escape your neighbours during a 6N competition, especially if they think you have a chance?


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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by furra_linee on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 8:30 am

Jimbo, exactly what I was trying to say regarding the Moral Hazard of retaining young Mr Russell.
Like a financial crisis, or Rangers, or both if you are David Murray, being too big to fail is a terrible thing.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by BigGee on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 1:56 pm

All the French players who went out on the lash after the game on Sunday and were involved in the incident which caused the police to interview them, have been dropped by France for the game against Italy.

Thomas included, so not sure how France will score any tries now!

Brunel showing he has a bit of steel about him!

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by highland_scot on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 2:06 pm

So, France throw the Italy game, and become dead on favourites for the spoon. When was the last time (if ever) that someone other than us or Italy got it? 1999?

Edit- Answering my own question now, France 2013 and Wales 2003. Not as unheard of as I'd thought!

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by TightHEAD on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 2:12 pm

The French have some serious issues as a society, thank the lord we decided to leave the EU.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by lostinwales on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 2:17 pm

TightHEAD wrote:The French have some serious issues as a society, thank the lord we decided to leave the EU.

Quite one of the most bizarre statements I have seen here for a while, showing a staggering lack of self awareness. But maybe we should go back to the rugby.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by SecretFly on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 2:57 pm

BigGee wrote:All the French players who went out on the lash after the game on Sunday and were involved in the incident which caused the police to interview them, have been dropped by France for the game against Italy.

Thomas included, so not sure how France will score any tries now!

Brunel showing he has a bit of steel about him!

Dropped for a game but still in the squad?
Hmm, those boys will really be interested in training for these next two weeks if they're still in camp. Brunel should have held off on the declaration until much later.

But who knows...maybe now Brunel will stumble across a real team.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

Post by whocares on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 3:34 pm

SecretFly wrote:
BigGee wrote:All the French players who went out on the lash after the game on Sunday and were involved in the incident which caused the police to interview them, have been dropped by France for the game against Italy.

Thomas included, so not sure how France will score any tries now!

Brunel showing he has a bit of steel about him!

Dropped for a game but still in the squad?
Hmm, those boys will really be interested in training for these next two weeks if they're still in camp.  Brunel should have held off on the declaration until much later.

But who knows...maybe now Brunel will stumble across a real team.

I assume they will be sent back to their clubs. Thomas aside there is ( unfortunately) not a big drop in quality ... such is the sad state of affair of French rugby.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

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