6 NATIONS 2018 - England v Wales build up/Match/Autopsy Thread - 12-6

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

England v Wales (The Big One) ITV 16:45pm


So much rests on this game. Wales look strong, England did enough in Rome to look comfortable.

Really hard to see how this wil play out.

Discuss.

Ref - Jérôme Garcès (France)

Head to head - Played - 130 Eng 61 - Wales 57 - Drawn 12




England Team

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 65 caps) 14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 29 caps) 13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby 36 caps) 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 54 caps) 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 30 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 41 caps) 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 77 caps)

1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 45 caps) 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 90 caps) 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 78 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 48 caps) 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 15 caps) 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 62 caps) 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 60 caps) 8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 4 caps)

Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens 21 caps) 17 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs 1 cap) 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 6 caps) 19 George Kruis (Saracens 22 caps)  20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 4 caps) 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens 27 caps) 22 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 9 caps) 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs 24 caps)




Wales team
Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton).


NO TRY - https://mobile.twitter.com/mattyjwills/status/962615635321737217/video/1

[lostinwales]

He's not ugly because he's ginger, there's some very good looking gingers around

Are any of them male though?

No. I am sure being ginger is something that is only inherited on the mother's side.

[lostinwales]

Being slightly more serious for a second. I had thought that Te'o would start to carry on his very successful job in attack. But the one thing that JJ does bring to the table is excellent defense against wide runners.

If EJ does feel that there is an issue with wide defense JJ is definitely the guy to help solve it.

[BamBam]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/danmartin/the-27-hottest-celebrity-gingers

Knock yourselves out

On a semi related note, there's an absolutely stunning redhead wandering around our office today, I take back all comments about ugly gingers immediately

[TightHEAD]

JJ can move around quicker than Te'o and plug a gap.

[Geordie]

JJ still pulls in multiple defenders so not really an issue either.

[LondonTiger]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/danmartin/the-27-hottest-celebrity-gingers

Knock yourselves out

On a semi related note, there's an absolutely stunning redhead wandering around our office today, I take back all comments about ugly gingers immediately

They are not helping the cause including someone like Rupert Grint.

[BamBam]

Finding 27 celebrity gingers was probably hard enough, cut them some slack

[WELL-PAST-IT]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/danmartin/the-27-hottest-celebrity-gingers

Knock yourselves out

On a semi related note, there's an absolutely stunning redhead wandering around our office today, I take back all comments about ugly gingers immediately

They forgot the obvious one and still better looking than most on there Ginger Spice herself, Gerry Horner.

Patchell looks like a young colt, fair bit of muscle but ungainly and with far too long a legs for his body

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Oooppss, I had better get this in before she reads it, and my Mrs.

[Guest]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/danmartin/the-27-hottest-celebrity-gingers

Knock yourselves out

On a semi related note, there's an absolutely stunning redhead wandering around our office today, I take back all comments about ugly gingers immediately

They forgot the obvious one and still better looking than most on there Ginger Spice herself, Gerry Horner.

Patchell looks like a young colt, fair bit of muscle but ungainly and with far too long a legs for his body

Gerry Horner?! She looks like Rod Hull.

[chris_501]

The Patchell comments seem like a distraction.

Looking at that Welsh line up, it's the worst I've seen in years. I'm really struggling to pick a Welsh player to get into the English side (poss Halfpenny because of his boot).

What they do have though is cohesion which can be priceless at Int level.

I was thinks my the same, Owens over Hartley and Halfpenny over Brown for me. However there are very few England players that would clearly make the Wales team. Launchbury over Hill, Farrell over Parkes and Watson over Adams.

Home advantage will therefore play a large part in this result.

[TightHEAD]

Rhys isn't a bad looking lad.

[cascough]

The Patchell comments seem like a distraction.

Looking at that Welsh line up, it's the worst I've seen in years. I'm really struggling to pick a Welsh player to get into the English side (poss Halfpenny because of his boot).

What they do have though is cohesion which can be priceless at Int level.

I was thinks my the same, Owens over Hartley and Halfpenny over Brown for me. However there are very few England players that would clearly make the Wales team. Launchbury over Hill, Farrell over Parkes and Watson over Adams.

Home advantage will therefore play a large part in this result.

Considering there are two props, a second row, 12, 13 (and the bench centre) and a winger that Gatland himself picked over their Welsh counterparts, I find it a bit laughable that people are making out there's only a couple of English players would get in the Wales side.

[SecretFly]

nice to see he keeps his hair and eyebrows to the same style...cool

[BamBam]

The Patchell comments seem like a distraction.

Looking at that Welsh line up, it's the worst I've seen in years. I'm really struggling to pick a Welsh player to get into the English side (poss Halfpenny because of his boot).

What they do have though is cohesion which can be priceless at Int level.

I was thinks my the same, Owens over Hartley and Halfpenny over Brown for me. However there are very few England players that would clearly make the Wales team. Launchbury over Hill, Farrell over Parkes and Watson over Adams.

Home advantage will therefore play a large part in this result.

Considering there are two props, a second row, 12, 13 (and the bench centre) and a winger that Gatland himself picked over their Welsh counterparts, I find it a bit laughable that people are making out there's only a couple of English players would get in the Wales side.

You've failed to consider that they have beaten Scotland since then, that explains it

[Scottrf]

I'm sure Ford would make the team in a country where Gavin Henson is an internation legend at Fly Half too.

[Gooseberry]

The patchell thing and now the AWJ thing on top is clearly Jones trying to steal a march on Gatlands usual trolling. How much of an effect it really has on thing is pretty debatable but you have to say one thing Jones has bought that England have really lacked before is a way to play to the media and keep them distracted from nonsense stories about their own players.

Im not a massive fan of all this nonsense but its nice on one level to see and England coach dish it back after all the tripe they've faced in previous years, espeically the NZ world cup.

Its results that count though, and Jones stands to look sillier if teh game doesnt go his way. Plenty of Welsh will be queueing up to give back.

[RiscaGame]

I'm sure Ford would make the team in a country where Gavin Henson is an internation legend at Fly Half too.

Hang on a minute now. Stick the boot in to Patchell, but that's a step too far having a pop at Super Gav

[RiscaGame]

AWJ's quote back to Uncle Eddie was good.

[TightHEAD]

AWJ standing in front of the ball just wasn't rugby imho.

I'm glad EJ highlighted that to World Rugby.

[BamBam]

AWJ's quote back to Uncle Eddie was good.

Probably the biggest contribution he'll make to the fixture

[RiscaGame]

AWJ's quote back to Uncle Eddie was good.

Probably the biggest contribution he'll make to the fixture

Gatland can afford to carry passengers like AWJ, when he has effective locks like Hill next to him. That's why he tried shoehorning him in on the Lions tour.

[No 7&1/2]

Hill was class last week. The bit of chat was Itoje vs jones while I really want to see how much impact hill can make against the 2 locks I personally rate as the top 2 in the nh (Itoje and Launchbury).

[lostinwales]

The primary purpose of the Eddie jibes does seem very much to be about shifting attention away from his own guys, and it does work well.

As ever what he says in public and what he does seldom match up.

[lostinwales]

AWJ's quote back to Uncle Eddie was good.

Probably the biggest contribution he'll make to the fixture

Gatland can afford to carry passengers like AWJ, when he has effective locks like Hill next to him. That's why he tried shoehorning him in on the Lions tour.

I'll just state my standard line on AWJ. He's a good lock with a great deal of experience and good leadership skills. He wouldn't get a look in with England at the moment but then his value to Wales is huge, because his leadership and general presence outweighs his personal contribution.

It's the same with Hartley and Brown for England. Probably neither would get a look in with Wales, but they are valuable to England.

[Poorfour]

AWJ standing in front of the ball just wasn't rugby imho.

I'm glad EJ highlighted that to World Rugby.

Interesting Law point there.

If Russell had taken the kick and hit AWJ, a case could be made that it was an early charge by AWJ, which would have resulted in Russell being allowed to retake the kick with no Welsh charge. And having taken the kick, the try couldn't be turned over by the TMO or otherwise.

So Russell should probably just have continued preparing to take his kick until the referee signalled time out.

[cascough]

AWJ standing in front of the ball just wasn't rugby imho.

I'm glad EJ highlighted that to World Rugby.

Interesting Law point there.

If Russell had taken the kick and hit AWJ, a case could be made that it was an early charge by AWJ, which would have resulted in Russell being allowed to retake the kick with no Welsh charge. And having taken the kick, the try couldn't be turned over by the TMO or otherwise.

So Russell should probably just have continued preparing to take his kick until the referee signalled time out.

I'm pretty sure the ref had already told Russell he was going to the TMO before Jones intervened.

[Rugby Fan]

It's almost exactly two years since Jones singled out Sexton in pre-match comments (for which I think he later offered an apology). Alan Quinlan wasn't happy:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/comment-analysis/alan-quinlan-englands-arrogant-disrespectful-coach-eddie-jones-is-a-poor-mans-version-of-jose-mourinho-34490813.html

[chris_501]

The Patchell comments seem like a distraction.

Looking at that Welsh line up, it's the worst I've seen in years. I'm really struggling to pick a Welsh player to get into the English side (poss Halfpenny because of his boot).

What they do have though is cohesion which can be priceless at Int level.

I was thinks my the same, Owens over Hartley and Halfpenny over Brown for me. However there are very few England players that would clearly make the Wales team. Launchbury over Hill, Farrell over Parkes and Watson over Adams.

Home advantage will therefore play a large part in this result.

Considering there are two props, a second row, 12, 13 (and the bench centre) and a winger that Gatland himself picked over their Welsh counterparts, I find it a bit laughable that people are making out there's only a couple of English players would get in the Wales side.

I'm not saying they wouldn't make the Welsh team, but just that they wouldn't walk into it.

[beshocked]

Quite a lack of experience in that Welsh backline. Could be both a benefit or a bad thing.

The English backline are known quantities for good or ill.

A fascinating sub plot off the bench could Hepburn and Williams scrummaging against their clubmate - Francis.

Have to feel that England will look to put the squeeze at scrum time when the benches come on.

I expect Wales to play better than they look on paper because of that Scarlets spine, last time Wales had a proper spine lack that it was with Os in 2008.

This is an experienced England team though which has had a lot of success under Jones.


I also believe that key Welsh player's absences like Faletau and L.Williams will be felt more than vs Scotland.

These players would shore up a relatively inexperienced looking Welsh side.

If I was England I'd target Moriarty and Adams. I think focusing on Patchell is just a ploy to keep England's real agenda a little secret.

Moriarty and Adams aren't part of the Scarlets spine so their lack of familiarity comparatively can be attacked.

I know Moriarty has been around the squad but I think he lacks star quality. Someone like Simmonds could leave his opposite number chasing at shadows IMO.

[No 7&1/2]

Target moriarty how? The one world class part of his game is tackling and defence

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Ah, so you target Moriarty by running at someone else.

[ChequeredJersey]

Spray paint Patchell’s shirt white mid match. Ross doesn’t seem that bright

[beshocked]

Drive him backwards, isolate him defensively. In attack use speed.

Put pressure on him.

Surely Wales will look to him as one of their primary carriers, so give him a tough time.

Plus if Moriarty flies out of the line, let's say to smash Farrell or Ford, it creates potential opportunities.

[ChequeredJersey]

I’d think we would target him as a carrier, all 3 of our backrow should be up to that

[ChequeredJersey]

Drive him backwards, isolate him defensively. In attack use speed.

Put pressure on him.

Surely Wales will look to him as one of their primary carriers, so give him a tough time.

Plus if Moriarty flies out of the line, let's say to smash Farrell or Ford, it creates potential opportunities.

If Moriarity flies out at Ford, that will be a perfect opportunity for a Care snipe.
The same applies to us if take our eye off a Davies to focus on Patchell though, secondary tacklers in the backrow will be key for both sides, luckily our backrow is a very good tackling one

[BamBam]

I’d think we would target him as a carrier, all 3 of our backrow should be up to that

As should our fly half / scrum half/ ball boy / anthem singer

[lostinwales]

I so hate the 'world class' tag, and it really does seem to be an obsession in some quarters across the border.

[beshocked]

I am more worried about discipline more than defence.

Too many soft penalties vs Italy.

Itoje in particular needs to be much better. He's got the ability in his locker, he just needs to show it.

Fortunately Twickenham is generally a happy hunting ground for him.

Some of the support play by English players was a bit sloppy, allowing players to get isolated.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I've just heard on Twitter that Halfpenny missed today's captain's run.

[Guest]

I've just heard on Twitter that Halfpenny missed today's captains run.

I said he’d lost a lot of pace over the years! Couldn’t make the team bus in time!

[lostinwales]

I've just heard on Twitter that Halfpenny missed today's captains run.

What are the alternatives if 1/2p doesn't make it?

Hate to point this out given Eddie's barbs but won't that mean that Patchell will have to take on the kicking- which will increase the pressure on him

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I don't know what the rules are, to be honest. Liam Williams has been named to play for Saracens so I don't know if they're allowed to call him up. Same with Amos for the Dragons.

[ChequeredJersey]

I've just heard on Twitter that Halfpenny missed today's captains run.

What are the alternatives if 1/2p doesn't make it?

Hate to point this out given Eddie's barbs but won't that mean that Patchell will have to take on the kicking- which will increase the pressure on him

Anscombe to 15 and kicking?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Also I have to reiterate I read this on Twitter. There was no link attached to the tweet, so it might not even be true.

[SecretFly]

I so hate the 'world class' tag, and it really does seem to be an obsession in some quarters across the border.

World class comment, lost!

[SecretFly]

I've just heard on Twitter that Halfpenny missed today's captain's run.

Yeah, Rolex's aren't as reliable as they used to be.

[BamBam]

Being reported by ESPN now

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/22380706/leigh-halfpenny-doubt-england-clash-missing-wales-training-illness

[Guest]

Josh Adams has played a bit at FB I think. A lot to ask him to step up to FB in a big game like this, but could put him there and North on the wing and keep Patchell at 10.

The thought of Anscombe playing 10, and for the whole game, fills me with dread. Him at FB is perhaps even worse. Think I’d prefer Owen Williams at 10 to him, and he’s a bit more of an unknown at this level.

[No 7&1/2]

I assume the world class was aimed at me. Not so fussed about it if you can define it. In this case for an attribute it's that I see very little weakness in technique or attitude. He seems consistently to be one of the hardest tacklers who looks for work.

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