6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

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6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by George Carlin on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 11:01 am

First topic message reminder :

     
SCOTLAND v ENGLAND
24 February 2018
KO: 16:45 GMT
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on [Old BBC Colonial]

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

135 Played 135
42 Won 75
18 Drawn 18
75 Lost 42
1,162 Points 1,623

B. Recent Form 

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

6 February 2016
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 15 to England

11 March 2017
Twickenham, London
61 – 21 to England

C. Teams

SCOTLAND 

Hogg, Seymour, Jones, Horne, Maitland, Russell, Laidlaw; Reid, McInally, Berghan, Gilchrist, J Gray, Barclay (capt), Watson, Wilson.

Replacements: Lawson, J Bhatti, WP Nel, Swinson, Denton, Price, Grigg, Kinghorn.

ENGLAND

Brown, Watson, Joseph, Farrell, May, Ford, Care; M Vunipola, Hartley (capt), Cole, Launchbury, Itoje, Lawes, Robshaw, Hughes.

Replacements: George, Marler, Williams, G Kruis (Saracens), Underhill, Wigglesworth, B Te'o, J Nowell.


Last edited by George Carlin on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 9:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 1:16 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
tigertattie wrote:I'd say Nowell and Watson are Englands best Wingers. Can't say I rate may that much.

I know folk will point out he scored two tries last weekend but those were the exception rather than the rule!

Well,

Player 1: 1 try every 2.58 games internationally.
Player 2: 1 try every 3.29 games internationally.

For one of these a try is the exception rather than the rule, the other is the most exciting attacking player in the Northern Hemisphere. I'll let you figure out the players.

Because the quiz was ignored. 1. Is Jonny May. 2 is Stuart Hogg.

That's surprising and I apologize I didn't know you were wanting input, I thought it was a rhetorical comparison. I have always rated Johnny May, from an outside point of view. He is utterly rapid Run he runs good lines, gets his hands on the ball, is ok in defence and alright under the high ball. I get Jack Nowell is a good player too but having a selection dilema between those two is hardly a bad thing. Also Johnny May at flank is a great return on banter.

However Hogg gets so much attention because of how he attacks the line. May can work his magic in space, Hogg typically works his magic from anywhere. Already 2 rounds in despite having a tough game in Cardiff he is near the top of defenders beaten and meters made. I'd say Ant Watson is more comparable to Hogg.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 1:39 pm

Very interesting Scott.

Ive always been a fan of May so I can believe those.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 1:41 pm

There's not many better wingers in the NH than May right now for me, he's got a complete game.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 1:42 pm

By all accounts May is a bit of an eccentric individual off the pitch....I love that..

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 1:47 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:By all accounts May is a bit of an eccentric individual off the pitch....I love that..

Have you seen some of his interviews? He's an extremley odd fellow, not your typical rugby player for sure.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 1:48 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:By all accounts May is a bit of an eccentric individual off the pitch....I love that..

Have you seen some of his interviews? He's an extremley odd fellow, not your typical rugby player for sure.

examples?? I'm intrigued.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 2:11 pm

Some say that he has to take his shoes off with an allen key, and that his new year's resolution is to eat fewer mice. All we know is he's called Jonny May!
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 2:36 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:By all accounts May is a bit of an eccentric individual off the pitch....I love that..

Have you seen some of his interviews? He's an extremley odd fellow, not your typical rugby player for sure.

examples?? I'm intrigued.

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/21419973/england-wing-jonny-reveals-declined-invitation-visit-north-korea
http://www.bloodandmud.com/2017/11/jonny-may-solve-problem-like-north-korea.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/11/14/george-ford-jonny-mays-flatmate-now-carer-life-coach/
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/george-ford-i-had-to-kick-jonny-may-out-after-three-weeks-lqft7nc2g
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/762985/The-colourful-life-Jonny-May-England-star-opens-up-Six-Nations-opener-News-Gossip
http://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/30-minutes/30-minutes-with-jonny-may-35225

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by TrailApe on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 2:55 pm

Excerpt from that last one

RW: If you could have one superpower, what would it be and why?

JM: Probably to read minds. I could find out team selection and what people are thinking. Outside of rugby, I could find out about stocks and shares and know when to invest. I could also read my girlfriend’s mind and keep her happy. And I could find out what my dog thinks!

He might be wired to the moon but I reckon he's onto something there!
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 2:57 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:By all accounts May is a bit of an eccentric individual off the pitch....I love that..

Have you seen some of his interviews? He's an extremley odd fellow, not your typical rugby player for sure.

examples?? I'm intrigued.

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/21419973/england-wing-jonny-reveals-declined-invitation-visit-north-korea
http://www.bloodandmud.com/2017/11/jonny-may-solve-problem-like-north-korea.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/11/14/george-ford-jonny-mays-flatmate-now-carer-life-coach/
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/george-ford-i-had-to-kick-jonny-may-out-after-three-weeks-lqft7nc2g
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/762985/The-colourful-life-Jonny-May-England-star-opens-up-Six-Nations-opener-News-Gossip
http://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/30-minutes/30-minutes-with-jonny-may-35225

Wow, I work with a guy just like that. The whole takeaway leaking through the packaging sounds pretty familiar.

Here comes an anecdote.

Me and said guy, let's call him Johnny, were on a detatched duty down at Portsmouth. So we flew into Southampton. I arrived at the airport first on the Monday morning and Johnny who had picked up a cold over the weekend arrived shortly after. He arrived sniffing and snorting like broken mule making some rather disgusting noises.

In the duty free shop in Edinburgh he treated himself to a new pair of sunglasses since we had been paid at the weekend and his modest salary was obviously burning a hole in his pocket.

The flight was uneventful and we arrived at Southampton in blazing summer skies, picked up our hire car and hit the M27 on our way to Portsmouth, the traffic moving freely which was strange for that time on a Monday morning but I as the driver wasn't complaining. Johnny sat in the passenger seat with his marvelous new RayBan sunglasses on looking like death warmed up beneath the mirror finished rims.

Clearly the pressure changes experienced on the flight had done nothing to clear up Johnny's cold and he continued to make some rather repulsive noises from the passenger side.

I finally lost my rag and said "Jeez, can you stop making that awful noise." The atmosphere was tense as he got some proper leverage into his mucus snorting and managed to expel a large a mount of it into his mouth wound down the window and gobbed it out of the car.

Traveling at 70mph I again in a rage exclaimed "Well done that filth will be splattered all down the side of the car!" In his surprise he exclaimed "Really?" stuck his head out of the window and his brand new RayBan sunglasses were blown off his head and were left tumbling along the motorway, smashed to smithereens. Johnny sullenly murmured that "I've lost my glasses, can we stop and I can pick them up".

"No." was my response.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 4:01 pm

Just looked at Eddie Jones stats with England.

24 games with only 1 loss to Ireland. NZ level of intimidation.

I really can't see us winning... Though every team has to lose a game every now and again right?

Very much David vs Goliath, we'll probably need to bring slingshots to the England training camp to stand any chance of winning
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by tigertattie on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 4:46 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
tigertattie wrote:I'd say Nowell and Watson are Englands best Wingers. Can't say I rate may that much.

I know folk will point out he scored two tries last weekend but those were the exception rather than the rule!

Well,

Player 1: 1 try every 2.58 games internationally.
Player 2: 1 try every 3.29 games internationally.

For one of these a try is the exception rather than the rule, the other is the most exciting attacking player in the Northern Hemisphere. I'll let you figure out the players.

Because the quiz was ignored. 1. Is Jonny May. 2 is Stuart Hogg.

do the same quiz for tries scored in last years 6Ns

Facts can be used to prove any point you make!
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Scottrf on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 4:49 pm

They can prove that your statement wasn't accurate.

Picking one tournament is cherry picking. All international games is not.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by cascough on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 8:30 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
tigertattie wrote:I'd say Nowell and Watson are Englands best Wingers. Can't say I rate may that much.

I know folk will point out he scored two tries last weekend but those were the exception rather than the rule!

Well,

Player 1: 1 try every 2.58 games internationally.
Player 2: 1 try every 3.29 games internationally.

For one of these a try is the exception rather than the rule, the other is the most exciting attacking player in the Northern Hemisphere. I'll let you figure out the players.

Because the quiz was ignored. 1. Is Jonny May. 2 is Stuart Hogg.

do the same quiz for tries scored in last years 6Ns

Facts can be used to prove any point you make!

Do the same quiz for tries scored in this years 6Ns.

Stats can prove anything if you twist them. Don't think that can be said for Scott, here.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 10:30 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43087194

Nel is back in full training and sounds like he's in contention for next week. I'd rather he plays for Edinburgh first - john Welsh is well experienced playing against English props.

Fagerson back training too!

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 10:39 pm

Well having just got back from the Falcons v Bath game...I have to say Zach Mercer is not ready for England v Scotland.
He barely registered against us bar a few runs at the very end.

Haskell must be in pole position if hes performing well in training and Hughes isn't fit enough.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by BigGee on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 9:28 am

The noises coming out of Toonie's presser down in Gala yesterday, suggested that Nel is a bit ahead of Fagerson in the fitness stakes and is probably going to go onto the bench next week. The fact that Toonie does not really seem sold on Jon Welsh would make that even more likely.

Toonie pointed out that Nel has been able to keep up his fitness, as it was an arm injury and that he previously came back into the Scotland squad and played well despite having had hardly any game time.

A good 20 mins of the bench as Berghan starts to tire would be just what we need from him. After his game last week though, playing the full 80 against the French props and more than holding his own, Bergs is surely a nailed on starter.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 9:35 am

While he will have been able to keep his cardio fitness up he surely will have lost a lot of upper body muscle mass. You can't lift weights with a broken arm and upper body strength is huge for a prop.

There's no way Nel playing his first game in months would give us more than a battle hardened Welsh can. Lets not forget that when he broke his arm he had only just come back from his neck injury that kept him out for almost a full season. If Nel is picked then that says all we need to know of Townsend's opinion on Welsh.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by jimbopip on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 10:17 am

You can't lift weights with a broken arm picard

You really are big soft Jessies in Luvvietoun.
In Glasgow the props juggle babies with broken arms.

"Mr Townsend, how did my baby come to suffer a broken arm?"
" Sorry missus, young Zander still has to work on the juggling"

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Hazel Sapling on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 11:41 am

If Nel jumps Welsh, that is a sad indictment of Townsend. Welsh played in a Newcastle destruction of Bath and certainly was ok against Wales (one of the few). He has done nothing to deserve being dropped. Nel has done nothing recently to deserve being picked.

Berghan has a chance against England to show that the penny has dropped for international rugby. Sometimes it takes a few caps to get it. Being 4 deep at tighthead prop is a great place to be before we get to Rae, McCallum and Nicol level.

Also whilst our defence coach needs to quickly figure out how to do his job, the scrum coach deserve a raise. Playing fully fit Welsh and French front rows with our 4th choice props to a draw at the set piece is an achievement. I thought that was where we would struggle, not our defensive line

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Scottrf on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 1:38 pm

I think the Scottish props have shown that's there's no need to rush anyone back. England won't scummage them off he park.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Scottrf on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 4:49 pm

I know he's out of favour but would consider Harrison at 8. Been in very good form and played excellently today.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 5:27 pm

Scottrf wrote:I know he's out of favour but would consider Harrison at 8. Been in very good form and played excellently today.

Far from Int quality though as we've already seen when he played on the flank. I

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Scottrf on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 5:28 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Scottrf wrote:I know he's out of favour but would consider Harrison at 8. Been in very good form and played excellently today.

Far from Int quality though as we've already seen when he played on the flank. I

Not so sure you can judge than on 20 minutes and a couple of errors.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by lostinwales on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 5:42 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Scottrf wrote:I know he's out of favour but would consider Harrison at 8. Been in very good form and played excellently today.

Far from Int quality though as we've already seen when he played on the flank. I

Not so sure you can judge than on 20 minutes and a couple of errors.

never say never but he looked hopeless when he did have a chance with England, hence getting pulled early by EJ. Compare and contrast with Underhill, Curry, and of course Simmonds. He's going to have to be consistantly excellent for a season at least to even get a look in- and if he is its only going to be down to injuries to everyone else

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 5:43 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Scottrf wrote:I know he's out of favour but would consider Harrison at 8. Been in very good form and played excellently today.

Far from Int quality though as we've already seen when he played on the flank. I

Not so sure you can judge than on 20 minutes and a couple of errors.

20 mins? He's got 5 caps and was a passenger for those. He's not good enough for England.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 7:31 am

England name a 29 man squad:

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/jones-calls-players-ahead-scotland-six-nations/

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Poorfour on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 8:57 am

LondonTiger wrote:England name a 29 man squad:

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/jones-calls-players-ahead-scotland-six-nations/

So the front row is set, barring a last minute injury.

Two to go from the back five - Ewels, presumably, but then it will be interesting to see if he goes with four locks or four back rowers.

From the inside backs and outside backs, my guess is that Mallinder, Earle, Solomona and Ibitoye will be dropped and he'll keep all the inside backs, given Nowell's versatility.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:06 am

So....what are we looking at?

1. Mako
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Itoje
6. Robshaw
7. Underhill
8. Hughes

9. Care
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. JJ
14. Watson
15. Brown

16. George 17. Williams 18. Marler 19. Kruis 20. Lawes/Haskell 21. Wiggles 22. Te'o 23. Nowell

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:17 am

That's the team I'd go for. Think it may well be lawes underhill Robshaw though. I really hope it's not lawes robshaw Hughes.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Scottrf on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:19 am

I think it will be 3 locks with Haskell not Kruis on the bench. Lawes Robshaw Haskell is an option though, Hughes doesn't sound like he's fit.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:23 am

Keep forgetting haskell is back in the mix. Robshaw to start with haskell on the bench.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Poorfour on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:23 am

I think he may start with Marler to save Mako for the later stages of the game. Given Scotland's props have gone quite well, he may want to match their best scrummagers with his and have Mako to charge around late on, especially if Hughes is fit enough to start.

A note on Hughes - there were reports in the papers over the weekend that Eddie has been putting him through a ton of fitness work; it's possible that his lack of sharpness on Friday was more to do with having had a much tougher week than some of the other players. In which case, he may be fit to start.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:25 am

I wouldn't like to see Haskell or Robshaw at 8 tbh and I'm not overly keep on Lawes at 6.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by beshocked on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:31 am

Sure it's consistent for Eddie to reward poor discipline with starts but I don't like it.

I don't believe Marler has a god given right to walk into the starting line up. Especially as Mako has started the 6 nations well.

You could look at it the other way round - bringing on Marler with 20 minutes to go allows England the opportunity to put pressure on the Scottish scrum.

I don't think the Scottish scrum is world class - Mako has held up well enough in the scrum so far so I don't see why he warrants dropping.


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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by SecretFly on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:39 am

Eddie secretly (or not so secretly) loves these 'rebel' characters.  He likes their fight and their 'dog' and all that stuff.  Indeed, if you want to get into an Eddie team, probably wrecking your hotel room whilst on a weekend binge with two escort girls is a better attempt than clocking up the performance stat numbers in your club.

Eddie has a protective instinct for 'bad boys' - he's like the woman that thinks she has the skills to change her beastly boyfriend into a nice henpecked husband.  Don't always work with a fairy tale ending though.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:42 am

Mako offers a lot more around the park than Marler so I can't see him dropping out against a not so strong Scottish scrummaging side. Mako's been pretty good in the scrum this 6N too.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by beshocked on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 9:50 am

secretfly you are right. Laugh It's pretty clear when you look at his captain and vice captains. He likes that.

To be fair for Jones so are it's been mostly successful.

I wonder what Jones is going to do in the build up to the Scotland game.

I'd say a lot of the pressure is on Scotland - I wonder if he'll say something along those lines.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:14 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:So....what are we looking at?

1. Mako
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Itoje
6. Robshaw
7. Underhill
8. Hughes

9. Care
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. JJ
14. Watson
15. Brown

16. George 17. Williams 18. Marler 19. Kruis 20. Lawes/Haskell 21. Wiggles 22. Te'o 23. Nowell

easy.... Shocked
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:20 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well having just got back from the Falcons v Bath game...I have to say Zach Mercer is not ready for England v Scotland.
He barely registered against us bar a few runs at the very end.

Interestingly he was named in the Times team of the week. Not having seen the game I cannot really comment, but looking at his stats I can see why he was included - 23 carries, 84 metres, 7 defenders beaten, 12 tackles made 100% completion rate.

EJ however has agreed that he is not ready yet.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:55 am

I think most fans have given up thinking who the Toonie Tombola will pick at any given time, with Nel coming back, Scott, Strauss, Visser and some others we may see something quite different.

My team would look something like this:

1. Reid
2. McKinally
3. Berghen
4. Gilchrist
5. Gray
6. Barclay (C)
7. The Mishiah
8. Denton

9. Laidlaw (place kicker)
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Horne
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Hogg (touch kicker)

I have designated the kickers to emphasize that Russell shouldn't be doing anything apart from playing heads up rugby and Laidlaw is there to tell him to calm the hell down. Dunbar at 12 is also an option if again that keeps Russell's head on.

It feels really strange typing that sort of thing down. Russell is a bloody good player but the fact I'm assigning him minders doesn't ooze confidence.

16. Lawson
17. Bahtti
18. Welsh
19. Toolis
20. Swinson
21. Strauss
22. Price
23. Bennett
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 11:07 am

LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Well having just got back from the Falcons v Bath game...I have to say Zach Mercer is not ready for England v Scotland.
He barely registered against us bar a few runs at the very end.

Interestingly he was named in the Times team of the week. Not having seen the game I cannot really comment, but looking at his stats I can see why he was included - 23 carries, 84 metres, 7 defenders beaten, 12 tackles made 100% completion rate.

EJ however has agreed that he is not ready yet.

He made two big breaks at the end of the game which would have made most of the those 84m and the carriers beaten.

Aside from that I personally felt he was ineffective.

Ie When Bath were really crying out for a talismanic leader to take the game to Newcastle he didn't do it, which given his rising star status, I thought he should have done.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 11:22 am

Russell has struggled in both games so far. Has his form been poor for Glasgow?

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 11:43 am

LondonTiger wrote:Russell has struggled in both games so far. Has his form been poor for Glasgow?

Not especially, the last game I saw him in was when Glasgow beat Exeter and he was really good, the time before that was the Australia game for Scotland.

I understand his dad has come to grief with the SRU and I wonder if some of that is playing on his mind.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-scotsman/20180213/281638190668273

Finn has always been prone to mistakes, it's not even a pressure thing, because in some of the highest pressure games he has been fine, so perhaps he is just like our coach, unpredictable, mercurial a bit of a scatter brain.

I certainly wouldn't ever consider not playing him, but we need to take the pressure off him. He's trying too hard at the moment, and for me let Hogg and Laidlaw take some of the pressure.

Ford can be the same, particularly when on the back foot, I hope for some bits of the game we can get England on the back foot.

For me my biggest concern is how physical and direct that England pack can be. Our defense isn't great, although with 2 weeks off I'm expecting a marked improvement. However England have some brutes in that squad and I'd expect that to cause us some problems, the more direct the attack, the worse our defending gets.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by beshocked on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 11:48 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I think most fans have given up thinking who the Toonie Tombola will pick at any given time, with Nel coming back, Scott, Strauss, Visser and some others we may see something quite different.

My team would look something like this:

1. Reid
2. McKinally
3. Berghen
4. Gilchrist
5. Gray
6. Barclay (C)
7. The Mishiah
8. Denton

9. Laidlaw (place kicker)
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Horne
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Hogg (touch kicker)

I have designated the kickers to emphasize that Russell shouldn't be doing anything apart from playing heads up rugby and Laidlaw is there to tell him to calm the hell down. Dunbar at 12 is also an option if again that keeps Russell's head on.

It feels really strange typing that sort of thing down. Russell is a bloody good player but the fact I'm assigning him minders doesn't ooze confidence.

16. Lawson
17. Bahtti
18. Welsh
19. Toolis
20. Swinson
21. Strauss
22. Price
23. Bennett

Nothing wrong with having a minder for Russell.

England use Farrell as a minder for Ford.

Farrell takes a lot of responsibility off Ford and if Laidlaw and Horne can do the same for Russell it can only be a good thing surely?

Getting the best out of players is key to winning.


Sadly for Scotland I don't feel Horne is the same quality rugby player as Farrell Jr.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by tigertattie on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 11:52 am

Finn's issue is he's had his rhythm rattled.

He's a confidence player and against Wales the whole Scotland team went bananas and Wales skelpped us up and down the Principality pitch.

Then against France Finn came out with an attitude of "I must put right what went wrong last week and win us this game" He took too much on and tried too hard which ultimately led to him having another garage game.

He is a rare one where you can;t really coach him or smack his head for not paying attention. Finn only plays well when he is enjoying himself and he does this when he's jsut out there playing rugby. It's not an international game of significance, it's not a tournament or league game. Its just him running about with a rugby ball doing things.

He's like a kid playing out the back with his mates. It sounds rotten, but it's almost as if he treats the game exactly like that, a game! Not a professional at his work, but a kid out having fun playing his hobby.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by BigGee on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 12:02 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I think most fans have given up thinking who the Toonie Tombola will pick at any given time, with Nel coming back, Scott, Strauss, Visser and some others we may see something quite different.

My team would look something like this:

1. Reid
2. McKinally
3. Berghen
4. Gilchrist
5. Gray
6. Barclay (C)
7. The Mishiah
8. Denton

9. Laidlaw (place kicker)
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Horne
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Hogg (touch kicker)

I have designated the kickers to emphasize that Russell shouldn't be doing anything apart from playing heads up rugby and Laidlaw is there to tell him to calm the hell down. Dunbar at 12 is also an option if again that keeps Russell's head on.

It feels really strange typing that sort of thing down. Russell is a bloody good player but the fact I'm assigning him minders doesn't ooze confidence.

16. Lawson
17. Bahtti
18. Welsh
19. Toolis
20. Swinson
21. Strauss
22. Price
23. Bennett

I am pretty sure he is going to have Nel on the bench for this one, he did not even put Welsh on the park last weekend and Berghan is hardly known as an 80 minute player (though he did stand up very well to be fair)

There is a decent shout for Malcolm to bench as well, he is a big solid laddie and played well for Glasgow this weekend. Does Lawson really still have it to play at International level.

With Laidlaw able to step in at FH, we may well go for the 6/2 split on the bench. Bennett can cover the wing and should have had enough time to be fully match fit now, so would probably shade Harris for now.

Grigg put in another fantastic shift for Glasgow on Friday, in attack and defence and was MoM. He is putting in some case to be starting at 12!

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by lostinwales on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 12:03 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Well having just got back from the Falcons v Bath game...I have to say Zach Mercer is not ready for England v Scotland.
He barely registered against us bar a few runs at the very end.

Interestingly he was named in the Times team of the week. Not having seen the game I cannot really comment, but looking at his stats I can see why he was included - 23 carries, 84 metres, 7 defenders beaten, 12 tackles made 100% completion rate.

EJ however has agreed that he is not ready yet.

He made two big breaks at the end of the game which would have made most of the those 84m and the carriers beaten.

Aside from that I personally felt he was ineffective.

Ie When Bath were really crying out for a talismanic leader to take the game to Newcastle he didn't do it, which given his rising star status, I thought he should have done.

He isn't the freak of nature that Itoje is (super strong at 20 etc) and I suspect he's got a lot of hardening up to do. I really have high hopes for that boy but it is not a surprise that he's not ready yet.

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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 12:04 pm

beshocked wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I think most fans have given up thinking who the Toonie Tombola will pick at any given time, with Nel coming back, Scott, Strauss, Visser and some others we may see something quite different.

My team would look something like this:

1. Reid
2. McKinally
3. Berghen
4. Gilchrist
5. Gray
6. Barclay (C)
7. The Mishiah
8. Denton

9. Laidlaw (place kicker)
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Horne
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Hogg (touch kicker)

I have designated the kickers to emphasize that Russell shouldn't be doing anything apart from playing heads up rugby and Laidlaw is there to tell him to calm the hell down. Dunbar at 12 is also an option if again that keeps Russell's head on.

It feels really strange typing that sort of thing down. Russell is a bloody good player but the fact I'm assigning him minders doesn't ooze confidence.

16. Lawson
17. Bahtti
18. Welsh
19. Toolis
20. Swinson
21. Strauss
22. Price
23. Bennett

Nothing wrong with having a minder for Russell.

England use Farrell as a minder for Ford.

Farrell takes a lot of responsibility off Ford and if Laidlaw and Horne can do the same for Russell it can only be a good thing surely?

Getting the best out of players is key to winning.


Sadly for Scotland I don't feel Horne is the same quality rugby player as Farrell Jr.

I don't think anyone is the same quality player as Farrell, I've already said I think he is the most important player England has, he is instrumental in everything from place kicking to defensive shape. Without Farrell, I seriously think Scotland could win the game, he is THAT important. Sure a lot of pundits fawn over Itoje or Robshaw's workrate or Ant Watson's dynamism or Simmon's speed. But whilst all that has been going on Farrell as cemented himself as the best test 12 in the world, all that whilst playing 10 for Sarries.

Horne is actually a very canny operator, he's not the biggest of lads for a test 12 at 6ft and just under 15st, but aside from Laidlaw he's the most intelligent player we have. He makes up for his small frame by being in the right place at the right time, all the time. He reads the game so well and is a great distributer at 12 and will get the best out of Hogg coming into the line and Jones at 13.

He will be little more than annoyance to defenders though. Dunbar is rock solid in that channel and he was badly exposed by England last year, I fear for what England might conjure up for Horne to deal with on Saturday.
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 12:11 pm

BigGee wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I think most fans have given up thinking who the Toonie Tombola will pick at any given time, with Nel coming back, Scott, Strauss, Visser and some others we may see something quite different.

My team would look something like this:

1. Reid
2. McKinally
3. Berghen
4. Gilchrist
5. Gray
6. Barclay (C)
7. The Mishiah
8. Denton

9. Laidlaw (place kicker)
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Horne
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Hogg (touch kicker)

I have designated the kickers to emphasize that Russell shouldn't be doing anything apart from playing heads up rugby and Laidlaw is there to tell him to calm the hell down. Dunbar at 12 is also an option if again that keeps Russell's head on.

It feels really strange typing that sort of thing down. Russell is a bloody good player but the fact I'm assigning him minders doesn't ooze confidence.

16. Lawson
17. Bahtti
18. Welsh
19. Toolis
20. Swinson
21. Strauss
22. Price
23. Bennett

I am pretty sure he is going to have Nel on the bench for this one, he did not even put Welsh on the park last weekend and Berghan is hardly known as an 80 minute player (though he did stand up very well to be fair)

There is a decent shout for Malcolm to bench as well, he is a big solid laddie and played well for Glasgow this weekend. Does Lawson really still have it to play at International level.

With Laidlaw able to step in at FH, we may well go for the 6/2 split on the bench. Bennett can cover the wing and should have had enough time to be fully match fit now, so would probably shade Harris for now.

Grigg put in another fantastic shift for Glasgow on Friday, in attack and defence and was MoM. He is putting in some case to be starting at 12!

Perhaps, but the Fiji game still gives me nightmares. From the thread...

BigGee wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:So what happened? Did we play badly? Or were Fiji just better? From the BBC report we took some booming tackles.

The backs collectively showed no creativity and went backwards once Duncan Taylor went off injured.

A few of our smaller guys, Horne, Hoyland and Grigg also found out that international rugby can be a rough tough game and took some battering from some robust Fijian tackling!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:It's been nice to get a bit of depth, see what works and in this case what doesn't.

Saw some of the Fiji tries, fantastic stuff. The fact we finished with Jackson, Horne and Grigg in the midfield Erm

No wonder we lost. Sending Dunbar home perhaps an error by the Tombola.

I don't think the Calcutta cup is the best place to give Grigg his first 6N start do you? Rolling Eyes
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Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

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