6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

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Post by George Carlin on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 11:01 am

First topic message reminder :

6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Scot_f10     6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Englan11
SCOTLAND v ENGLAND
24 February 2018
KO: 16:45 GMT
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on [Old BBC Colonial]

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 1: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 2: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

135 Played 135
42 Won 75
18 Drawn 18
75 Lost 42
1,162 Points 1,623

B. Recent Form 

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

6 February 2016
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 15 to England

11 March 2017
Twickenham, London
61 – 21 to England

C. Teams

SCOTLAND 
6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Scotty11
Hogg, Seymour, Jones, Horne, Maitland, Russell, Laidlaw; Reid, McInally, Berghan, Gilchrist, J Gray, Barclay (capt), Watson, Wilson.

Replacements: Lawson, J Bhatti, WP Nel, Swinson, Denton, Price, Grigg, Kinghorn.

ENGLAND
6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Englis10
Brown, Watson, Joseph, Farrell, May, Ford, Care; M Vunipola, Hartley (capt), Cole, Launchbury, Itoje, Lawes, Robshaw, Hughes.

Replacements: George, Marler, Williams, G Kruis (Saracens), Underhill, Wigglesworth, B Te'o, J Nowell.


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Post by munkian on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:13 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:For the avoidance of doubt.....

This is not 30 year old men playing against 12 year old boys - the size advantage is not that big a deal, if at all.

Watson may be 'smaller' than his opposite number, but when it comes to strength, the guy is a freak of nature.

He'll still be smashed at the breakdown if supporting his own weight.
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:17 pm

With all this smashing and monster-ing, I'm really looking forward to this game now!   Lots of out-for-four-weeks injuries......... Whistle

What?  What did I say wrong?  All is fair in love and war.  It's a man's game. Cool

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Post by Tramptastic on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:18 pm

munkian wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:For the avoidance of doubt.....

This is not 30 year old men playing against 12 year old boys - the size advantage is not that big a deal, if at all.

Watson may be 'smaller' than his opposite number, but when it comes to strength, the guy is a freak of nature.

He'll still be smashed at the breakdown  if supporting his own weight.

Nuh uh

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:22 pm

SecretFly wrote:With all this smashing and monster-ing, I'm really looking forward to this game now!   Lots of out-for-four-weeks injuries......... Whistle

What?  What did I say wrong?  All is fair in love and war.  It's a man's game. Cool

HA, that's a good point, I can imagine all of Ireland will be hoping for the dirtiest game in the history of the sport, with 4 week bans and injuries galore.

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Post by munkian on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:25 pm

Bans, no injuries please
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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:30 pm

munkian wrote:Bans, no injuries please

For clarity, minor knocks that just keep players out till the end of the 6 nations. More like a rest rather than anything serious.

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Post by BamBam on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:32 pm

I've just been told that my in laws are now arriving for their visit on Saturday afternoon, rather than just coming for the day on Sunday.

What time are they due to arrive you ask? 4pm furious furious furious


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Post by SecretFly on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:33 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
munkian wrote:Bans, no injuries please

For clarity, minor knocks that just keep players out till the end of the 6 nations.  More like a rest rather than anything serious.

Exactly. And no hard feelings at the end.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:36 pm

BamBam wrote:I've just been told that my in laws are now arriving for their visit on Saturday afternoon, rather than just coming for the day on Sunday.

What time are they due to arrive you ask? 4pm furious furious furious

"Oh is that the awful ruggbie?  Oh I can't be having that, not with my condition.  Let's turn the Telly off, shall we, and talk about something interesting.  I know...... Brexit!"

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:38 pm

Pub with the father in law bam. Enjoy.

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Post by beshocked on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:39 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
beshocked wrote:Tramptastic I did. I don't think you beat Exeter because of power though. That sin bin was the turning point.

To be fair Glasgow scored some cracking tries and made the most of it.

Secretfly well it's true. Exeter haven't exactly done that well in Europe just yet despite their success in the domestic league? Sounds remarkably similar to Glasgow....


My point with that is that if the scottish players can gain parity in terms of physicality as they did against a monstrous french side - also see glasgow v exeter, scotland v wales last year, scotland v ireland last year etc - they it comes down to ball playing skill which all of the scottish forwards have in abundunce (more so than england i'd suggest). It all hinges on whether barclay and watson can steal ball or not and if russell can do much with it. Every game scotland do well its from being faster to the breakdown than the opposition. They didnt do that against wales and Navidi mulched them, they did it in parts against france, we'll wait and see against england!

still england to win though

French side might have been monstrous but they lack good fitness and organisation.

Interesting article about Jones saying how poor he thought, England's fitness were before he got in charge.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/six-nations/england-s-poor-fitness-shocked-eddie-jones-at-start-of-reign-1-4695031



Of course 2017 England-Scotland has been mentioned but in 2016 Billy V was a key man. Hopefully Hughes can give us as much good go forward.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35498062


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Post by BamBam on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:39 pm

SecretFly wrote:
BamBam wrote:I've just been told that my in laws are now arriving for their visit on Saturday afternoon, rather than just coming for the day on Sunday.

What time are they due to arrive you ask? 4pm furious furious furious

"Oh is that the awful ruggbie?  Oh I can't be having that, not with my condition.  Let's turn the Telly off, shall we, and talk about something interesting.  I know...... Brexit!"

You're far closer to the truth than you could possibly have realised Laugh

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Post by TrailApe on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:46 pm

Commiserations BamBam, life can be Poopie indeed.

Rise above the disappointment, be noble (and greet like a bairn in the netty)
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:48 pm

Didn't realise that Hartley will become the 2nd most capped england player of all time on saturday. Granted the uncreased number of games and subs etc affect it these days but great achievement.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:56 pm

beshocked wrote:...Interesting article about Jones saying how poor he thought, England's fitness were before he got in charge.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/six-nations/england-s-poor-fitness-shocked-eddie-jones-at-start-of-reign-1-4695031
I'm also interested in this. I don't think England were unfit under Lancaster. One World Cup post-mortem conclusion seemed to be that England had trained hard but for the wrong purpose.

Beshocked, you know the Saracens players. Do you think they are notably fitter than before? Hard to beklieve Saracens wouldn't have set high standards before Jones was appointed to the England job.

There is ceratinly talk about Jones developing England's rugby, rather than gym, fitness. Again, I wonder whether the apparent improvement he notes is partly down to the fact the players were already fit but needed better direction.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 2:56 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Didn't realise that Hartley will become the 2nd most capped england player of all time on saturday. Granted the uncreased number of games and subs etc affect it these days but great achievement.

Especially having missed a year through biting, gouging, swearing and generally being a horrible little tow rag.
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Post by Scottrf on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 3:00 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
beshocked wrote:...Interesting article about Jones saying how poor he thought, England's fitness were before he got in charge.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/six-nations/england-s-poor-fitness-shocked-eddie-jones-at-start-of-reign-1-4695031
I'm also interested in this. I don't think England were unfit under Lancaster. One World Cup post-mortem conclusion seemed to be that England had trained hard but for the wrong purpose.

Beshocked, you know the Saracens players. Do you think they are notably fitter than before? Hard to beklieve Saracens wouldn't have set high standards before Jones was appointed to the England job.

There is ceratinly talk about Jones developing England's rugby, rather than gym,  fitness. Again, I wonder whether the apparent improvement he notes is partly down to the fact the players were already fit but needed better direction.
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/six-nations/england-s-poor-fitness-shocked-eddie-jones-at-start-of-reign-1-4695031

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 3:01 pm

BamBam wrote:I've just been told that my in laws are now arriving for their visit on Saturday afternoon, rather than just coming for the day on Sunday.

What time are they due to arrive you ask? 4pm furious furious furious

Sucks to be You Bam.....they're not Scottish are they?

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 3:03 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:

Beshocked, you know the Saracens players. Do you think they are notably fitter than before? Hard to beklieve Saracens wouldn't have set high standards before Jones was appointed to the England job.


I think Jones mentioned the little things like getting back up quickly after a tackle to be there again in position.  Now even though players are fit at club level, sometimes those small things are overlooked because the tight margins at the highest International level aren't needed.  But when faced with High Quality top grade International sides, those little things matter a lot.

But you'd have to get 'fitter' at actually doing those bits and pieces.  You couldn't just say "Oh we need to get up quicker and be back in position quicker? - oh we'll just do that then".
The little things are energy sappers and they have to be added to the overall energy burden when conditioning the player.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 3:04 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Didn't realise that Hartley will become the 2nd most capped england player of all time on saturday. Granted the uncreased number of games and subs etc affect it these days but great achievement.

Especially having missed a year through biting, gouging, swearing and generally being a horrible little tow rag.

He never gave nobody rabies! Give him some credit!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 3:05 pm

Yup without that first ban rugger and some harsh luck it would have topped 100 already.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 3:06 pm

Yeah the link about fitness suggests they turned.it around remarkably quickly so.perhaps just a different type.of fitness than jones would look for.

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Post by TrailApe on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 3:30 pm

He never gave nobody rabies! Give him some credit!

It brought to my recollection an anecdote I have heard of his late majesty, who, naming an officer that he intended should command in an expedition of some consequence, was told by the Duke of Newcastle that “the gentleman was by no means eligible for so important a station, being positively mad.” Is he, replied the king, he shall go for all that, and before he sets out I wish to my God he would bite some of my Generals, and make them mad too.”

Obviously an English Management thing - wanting their leaders to bite people
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 3:54 pm

In the WC we seemed to have the wrong kind of "fit". The set piece and forwards in general seemed under powered. I read something that Cole had put on 7-10kg after SL left.

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Post by lostinwales on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 4:23 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:For the avoidance of doubt.....

This is not 30 year old men playing against 12 year old boys - the size advantage is not that big a deal, if at all.

Watson may be 'smaller' than his opposite number, but when it comes to strength, the guy is a freak of nature.

We also have a player who is freakishly strong for his size. Itoje...

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 4:37 pm

You don't want to get into a Judo match with Itoje........
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Post by tigertattie on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 4:48 pm

Hamish Watson used to wrestle T-rexs as sparring practise

And folk wonder what happened to the dinosaurs!
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Post by lostinwales on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 4:59 pm

tigertattie wrote:Hamish Watson used to wrestle T-rexs as sparring practise

And folk wonder what happened to the dinosaurs!

In those days he was a 2nd row - but following the exercises he had to be remodelled with what was left...

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 5:09 pm

Folk still ask Ritchie McCaw why he retired

He's too afraid to say that its because of Mish
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Post by ChequeredJersey on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 5:49 pm

BamBam wrote:I've just been told that my in laws are now arriving for their visit on Saturday afternoon, rather than just coming for the day on Sunday.

What time are they due to arrive you ask? 4pm furious furious furious

At 2pm, manually smash up te roads both side of your house and make them unusable
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Post by ChequeredJersey on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 5:50 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:In the WC we seemed to have the wrong kind of "fit". The set piece and forwards in general seemed under powered. I read something that Cole had put on 7-10kg after SL left.

Yeah the pack slimmed down too much and the backs bulked up pointlessly
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Post by SimonofSurrey on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 6:12 pm

BamBam wrote:I've just been told that my in laws are now arriving for their visit on Saturday afternoon, rather than just coming for the day on Sunday.

What time are they due to arrive you ask? 4pm furious furious furious

You obviously did something very very bad in a previous life, get over it Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Seriously though, commiserations. Do you have another TV elsewhere in the house? If so, I recommend the onset of a very brief malaise lasting about 2 hours once your in laws have been with you about 30 minutes. The only possible remedy, of course, is time on your own in a room with a welcome distraction, such as sport on TV. Good luck with that.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 6:18 pm

Just wear the trousers and tell them you're not changing your plans.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 7:10 pm

For my benefit the nick name of mish for Watson is why?

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 7:18 pm

Scottrf wrote:Just wear the trousers and tell them you're not changing your plans.

Reminds me of the time I was in my sister's home.  She wasn't quite well but she was intent on driving somewhere.  Her husband was not having it.  He was concerned for her and he was putting his foot down:  "You are not going!  That's it.  I'm not giving you the keys!"
It was impressive to see him in action.
My sister put her hand out and gave him the look of death:  "Give me the keys" she said clearly and quietly.

He handed them over like a little pup that just peed in the wrong place.  Oh how I laughed.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 7:30 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:For my benefit the nick name of mish for Watson is why?
Hamish...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 7:50 pm

Jesus. Teach me to go to the pub.

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Post by George Carlin on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 7:51 pm

TightHEAD wrote:You don't want to get into a Judo match with Itoje........
Everyone knows that when Maro Itoje steps on Lego, Lego cries.
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Post by RDW on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 9:14 pm

Scotland under 20s beat England! Shocked

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Post by BigGee on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 10:11 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Scotland under 20s beat England! Shocked

That is an incredible result that should in reality just never happen, given thee difference in experience levels between the two sides, most of the Scottish kids are not even playing in the premiership yet, let alone pro rugby. Scotland got hammered by Wales and France as well.

Stecve Scott said that they would get better the more they played, looks like he was right!

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Post by lostinwales on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 10:16 pm

BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Scotland under 20s beat England! Shocked

That is an incredible result that should in reality just never happen, given thee difference in experience levels between the two sides, most of the Scottish kids are not even playing in the premiership yet, let alone pro rugby. Scotland got hammered by Wales and France as well.

Stecve Scott said that they would get better the more they played, looks like he was right!

I don't know what happened and it is hard to find coverage, but this England team does seem much changed from their last outing. I wonder if they took this game too much for granted?

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Post by BigGee on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 11:28 pm

lostinwales wrote:
BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Scotland under 20s beat England! Shocked

That is an incredible result that should in reality just never happen, given thee difference in experience levels between the two sides, most of the Scottish kids are not even playing in the premiership yet, let alone pro rugby. Scotland got hammered by Wales and France as well.

Stecve Scott said that they would get better the more they played, looks like he was right!

I don't know what happened and it is hard to find coverage, but this England team does seem much changed from their last outing. I wonder if they took this game too much for granted?

Hopefully the big lads will do the same tomorrow!

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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 7:53 am

That’s a nice result for the U20 Scots

We’re reminded a lot about how England have so much depth, money and professionalism and that we should all watch out in the next RWC cycle when these U20s come on line and dominate the world after they’ve won all the U20 championships :/

What happened?

Did the humiliating loss in the final of the recent U20 championships cause a massive chink in their psyche?

And are Scotland the new England?
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6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Empty Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 8:44 am

Back to poor wumming of the English then.

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Post by lostinwales on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 8:45 am

ebop wrote:That’s a nice result for the U20 Scots

We’re reminded a lot about how England have so much depth,  money and professionalism and that we should all watch out in the next RWC cycle when these U20s come on line and dominate the world after they’ve won all the U20 championships :/

What happened?

Did the humiliating loss in the final of the recent U20 championships cause a massive chink in their psyche?

And are Scotland the new England?

Do you have a problem?

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 8:56 am

I can't see EJ or any other coach or player underestimating Scotland today. Their at home and have everything to play for.
Everything suggests THIS game will be a classic, the only thing I can see to negate this is the kick off time when biorythmically the players will be coming off the boil and cold hand and muscles will be restrictive. A wee dram will remedy most things.
Scotland here I come!

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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 9:01 am

7.5, it’s not worth wumming the English as you guys are on fire under Eddie. Kudos to your current set up. Although not the #1 team you guys may as well be. What is it, 25 out of 26 wins or something ridiculous like that. Just so good.
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6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Empty Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by George Carlin on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 9:12 am

6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Screen-Shot-2014-06-23-at-21.16.23

Ah, here now lads, this was a nice thread.

Typically clear and well executed piece of writing by Tom English about this game:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43171874

A bit bombastic but points all well made.
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Post by englandglory4ever on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 9:50 am

England to score 7. That's tries not points. The first England try should come in about the 5th minute of the first half. Happy days.

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6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Empty Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

Post by lostinwales on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 10:04 am

George Carlin wrote:6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Screen-Shot-2014-06-23-at-21.16.23

Ah, here now lads, this was a nice thread.

Typically clear and well executed piece of writing by Tom English about this game:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43171874

A bit bombastic but points all well made.


It still is, although a bit like our coaches the bite is being imported from abroad.

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6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February - Page 11 Empty Re: 6N 2018: Scotland v England, 24 February

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