Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

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Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Noble-Surfer on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 12:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

So, Wales have gone with Dan Biggar, Liam Williams & Leigh Halfpenny for the game against Ireland. George North & Gareth Anscombe drop to the bench, and Rhys Patchell & Josh Adams drop out of the match day squad. Not bad decisions in my opinion, though I think I might have had Patchell on the bench over Anscombe... and possibly switched Halfpenny & Williams- I just think Williams offers more threat from fullback than Halfpenny does.

Wales Team:
Halfpenny (Scarlets); L Williams (Saracens), S Williams (Scarlets), Parkes (Scarlets), S Evans (Scarlets); Biggar (Ospreys), G Davies (Scarlets); R Evans (Scarlets), Owens (Scarlets), Lee (Scarlets), Hill (Dragons), AW Jones (Ospreys capt), Shingler (Scarlets), Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements:
Dee (Dragons), W Jones (Scarlets), Francis (Exeter Chiefs), B Davies (Ospreys), Tipuric (Ospreys), A Davies (Scarlets), Anscombe (Blues), North (Northampton).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43127349

Ireland Team:
Kearney; Earls, Farrell, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best (capt), Porter; James Ryan, Toner; O'Mahony, Leavy, Stander.

Replacements: Cronin, McGrath, John Ryan, Roux, Conan, Marmion, Carbery, McFadden.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43152956


Last edited by Noble-Surfer on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Ireland squad added)

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by SecretFly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 11:59 am

Collapse2005 wrote:

Gatland loves to talk a good game but the reality is there isn't much evidence that the Welsh are any fitter than the Irish.

Okay.  Let's word it this way.  Are the Irish 'fitter' than the Welsh?

Like I said earlier.  There are different versions of fitness - informed by your chosen game plans, informed by the natural attributes of the players you have to call on.

Wales are plenty fit enough to play the game they choose to play.  Ireland might not have those levels in those areas.  And vice versa about Ireland.  They'll have honed their skill set and fitness around their main game strengths.  A cyclist wouldn't last 12 rounds in a boxing ring.  A boxer wouldn't get far on a Tour de France mountain stage.  Both extremely fit but in different ways.  Welsh players are much more bright and capable of a sustained counter attacking game of accuracy and pace.  Much more capable of that game IF Ireland let them get at it.  Our fitness is centred around the game style to stop such teams and players from getting at it.
So a battle of the fitness variants, if you will Wink

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by SecretFly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 12:07 pm

But enough about the Welsh. If they need bigging up from here on in, the Welsh posters can come in here themselves and do it. I ain't getting paid enough by the WRU for this schyte!


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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 12:34 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:

I like Biggar, think he is a great player but I don't think he is as good as Sexton.

Lets face it Sexton is the most accomplished OH in Britain and Ireland in 50 years. Only Wilko with his world cup medal has managed to achieve something that Sexton has not.

There have been some very special 10's in Britain and Ireland in the last 50 years so I think that is a very big claim to make.

Wilkinson (as you said), Bennett, ROG, Jenkins to name but a few who I feel were superior to Sexton.


Rog? Bahahaha. You serious? Also Neil Jenkins? A good kicker yes but not a whole lot else.

Wilko is the only contender but he spent too much of career injured so his stock suffered as a result. Only really featured on one Lions tour.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by SecretFly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:10 pm

Has the team not been named yet?

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:11 pm

No there doesn't seem to be a live announcement. They are in Carton house at the moment I think and it should be announced soon.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by SecretFly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:12 pm

There must be some serious thinking about one or two players.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by eirebilly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:12 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:

Rog? Bahahaha. You serious? Also Neil Jenkins? A good kicker yes but not a whole lot else.

Wilko is the only contender but he spent too much of career injured so his stock suffered as a result. Only really featured on one Lions tour.

ROG, the current 4th highest rugby scorer of all time and one of the best game managing 10's?
Jenkins, the current 3rd highest rugby scorer of all time and who was actually much more than just a kicker?

Yes, I do think they were both better than Sexton.


Last edited by eirebilly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:13 pm

rapidsnowman wrote:I don't like:
1. 1/2p is back, because he doesn't miss
2. Liam williams is back, because he is the most dangerous running back in the 6 nations IMHO
3. North and Tipuric are going to be unleashed from the bench when legs are starting to get tired.

Also worried losing Henshaw's aggression is going to very negatively impact our defence.

Wish I had some of carpet baboon's confidence!

I sell confidence out the back of a van every third Tuesday of the month. But the trick is finding me

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:26 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:

Rog? Bahahaha. You serious? Also Neil Jenkins? A good kicker yes but not a whole lot else.

Wilko is the only contender but he spent too much of career injured so his stock suffered as a result. Only really featured on one Lions tour.

ROG, the current 4th highest rugby scorer of all time and one of the best game managing 10's?
Jenkins, the current 3rd highest rugby scorer of all time and who was actually much more than just a kicker?

Yes, I do think they were both better than Sexton.

Both Rog and Jenkins kicked a lot of points, both had long careers. Big deal. Id say if Sexton had as many caps as those guys he would have a similar tally.

I doubt Rog even thinks he was better than Sexton is now. The fact that he never started a Lions test in an era when Stephen Jones did tells you all you need to know.

Sexton's points per game average is higher than Rogs and Sexton wasn't even goal kicker for a fair proportion of his caps.


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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by SecretFly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:31 pm

Things are going grand when Guns and Billy are heavily into the ROG v Sexton debate. We must be going to massacre the Welsh at the weekend. Good times, they are a comin'.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:47 pm

Ireland:

15. Rob Kearney
14. Keith Earls
13. Chris Farrell
12. Bundee Aki
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Andrew Porter
4. James Ryan
5. Devin Toner
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Dan Leavy
8. CJ Stander

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack McGrath
18. John Ryan
19. Quinn Roux
20. Jack Conan
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Joey Carbery
23. Fergus McFadden.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by The Oracle on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:47 pm

Neil Jenkins was not a good 10 for me. Very limited. A good kicker, yes. But the rest was so-so. As evidenced on the '97 Lions tour when they wanted him in the side for kicking but he ended up at Fullback as he wasn't a great 10, and showed he was very weak defensively at 15.


In terms of fit: Mike Phillips was fit. Phwoar!!! Apparently.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:49 pm

The Oracle wrote:Neil Jenkins was not a good 10 for me.  Very limited.  A good kicker, yes.  But the rest was so-so.  As evidenced on the '97 Lions tour when they wanted him in the side for kicking but he ended up at Fullback as he wasn't a great 10, and showed he was very weak defensively at 15.  


In terms of fit: Mike Phillips was fit.  Phwoar!!!  Apparently.

Agreed. Much better 10s around than Jenkins. I'd say both Biggar and Patchell are much better.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by The Oracle on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:50 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland:

15. Rob Kearney
14. Keith Earls
13. Chris Farrell
12. Bundee Aki
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Andrew Porter
4. James Ryan
5. Devin Toner
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Dan Leavy
8. CJ Stander

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack McGrath
18. John Ryan
19. Quinn Roux
20. Jack Conan
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Joey Carbery
23. Fergus McFadden.


I'm ashamed to say that I don't know some of these players. Sorry! It's a sign of how my love for the game has waned in recent years. I'm not as 'up' on the players as I used to be. Can someone give me the low down on Chris Farrell, Andrew Porter and Dan Leavy? New names to me (again, apologies!).
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by SecretFly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 1:54 pm

No surprises.  Big performance required from that bunch.  Time to put up.  Clinging will be acceptable if it wins but I'd much prefer menacing and unrelenting.  Still say we should give an opportunity to a more youthful 15 to start with and then move on to really giving an alternative 9 a serious series of games.  
Can't keep relying on this 'solid' base that at any moment might evaporate through serious injury to one or the other of Sexton or Murray.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 2:03 pm

The Oracle wrote:

I'm ashamed to say that I don't know some of these players.  Sorry!  It's a sign of how my love for the game has waned in recent years.  I'm not as 'up' on the players as I used to be.  Can someone give me the low down on Chris Farrell, Andrew Porter and Dan Leavy?  New names to me (again, apologies!).

Porter and Leavy came through the Leinster academy. Porter is very big and fairly mobile.

Leavy is a really strong 7. Played against France when Van Der Flier got injured early on. My neighbour is his auntie too. She is very excited that he is the squad.

Chris Farrell is a Munster player who looked decent in the November tests v Fiji and Argentina. He started out with Ulster and then left for Grenoble but now plays for Munster. His big and strong and has decent hands.

Three good additions.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by The Oracle on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 2:07 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:

I'm ashamed to say that I don't know some of these players.  Sorry!  It's a sign of how my love for the game has waned in recent years.  I'm not as 'up' on the players as I used to be.  Can someone give me the low down on Chris Farrell, Andrew Porter and Dan Leavy?  New names to me (again, apologies!).

Porter and Leavy came through the Leinster academy. Porter is very big and fairly mobile.

Leavy is a really strong 7. Played against France when Van Der Flier got injured early on. My neighbour is his auntie too. She is very excited that he is the squad.

Chris Farrell is a Munster player who looked decent in the November tests v Fiji and Argentina. He started out with Ulster and then left for Grenoble but now plays for Munster. His big and strong and has decent hands.

Three good additions.


Thanks Collapse. Yes, I remember Farrell now from the AIs I think.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 2:23 pm

Rory Best is some man. Does he ever get injured? Seems to be ever present. 108 caps is some tally.


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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by BamBam on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 2:25 pm

Wasn't Porter a LH in the U20s? Must some very smart thinking given the logjam at Leinster in that position that has led to him converting if I'm right

If so, its a remarkably quick transition to being an international level TH

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by The Oracle on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 2:43 pm

BamBam wrote:Wasn't Porter a LH in the U20s? Must some very smart thinking given the logjam at Leinster in that position that has led to him converting if I'm right

If so, its a remarkably quick transition to being an international level TH


He'll be fine against Wales. Our scrum is never dominant these days! Just look at the Scotland game - they had some 10 front rowers out and scrum had parity mostly. We're no scrummaging force!
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by munkian on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 2:55 pm

Scrum is rarely a weapon in test matches anymore anyway.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by eirebilly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 2:59 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:

Rog? Bahahaha. You serious? Also Neil Jenkins? A good kicker yes but not a whole lot else.

Wilko is the only contender but he spent too much of career injured so his stock suffered as a result. Only really featured on one Lions tour.

ROG, the current 4th highest rugby scorer of all time and one of the best game managing 10's?
Jenkins, the current 3rd highest rugby scorer of all time and who was actually much more than just a kicker?

Yes, I do think they were both better than Sexton.

Both Rog and Jenkins kicked a lot of points, both had long careers. Big deal. Id say if Sexton had as many caps as those guys he would have a similar tally.

I doubt Rog even thinks he was better than Sexton is now. The fact that he never started a Lions test in an era when Stephen Jones did tells you all you need to know.

Sexton's points per game average is higher than Rogs and Sexton wasn't even goal kicker for a fair proportion of his caps.

Sexton at 8.8 per game and ROG at 8.3, some major difference there. Jenkins was well over 12...

I understand you are a Leinster fan and as such Sexton is brilliant but at least try and look at things objectively.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Poorfour on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 3:01 pm

Re: Gatland and fitness - I've long maintained that Gatland is very good at getting his players in a high state of tune, but that tends to have two big downsides:

1) They clearly don't complete their taper in the run up to the first game, because Wales often start badly (though Scotland helped them out this year)
2) I think Gatland gets them to too high a state of tune. The litany of players who are continually broken suggests that he might be taking them to a point where they lose durability.

As of two weeks ago, I think there's also a third one. I think he coaches physical endurance but isn't so good at mental endurance. Two years in a row Wales have been physically equal to or better than England in the later stages of a game, and two years in a row England have made better decisions in the dying minutes.

With Ireland, I think it's slightly different: I think Ireland lack a bit of tactical flexibility - hence why they end up hanging on when the game opens up a bit (I still believe that had the game been 5 minutes longer last year in Dublin, England would have won) - but their real achilles heel over a tournament is that they lose a lot if they pick up a couple of the inevitable key injuries.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by SecretFly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 3:14 pm

Poorfour wrote:Re: Gatland and fitness - I've long maintained that Gatland is very good at getting his players in a high state of tune, but that tends to have two big downsides:

1) They clearly don't complete their taper in the run up to the first game, because Wales often start badly (though Scotland helped them out this year)
2) I think Gatland gets them to too high a state of tune. The litany of players who are continually broken suggests that he might be taking them to a point where they lose durability.

As of two weeks ago, I think there's also a third one. I think he coaches physical endurance but isn't so good at mental endurance. Two years in a row Wales have been physically equal to or better than England in the later stages of a game, and two years in a row England have made better decisions in the dying minutes.

With Ireland, I think it's slightly different: I think Ireland lack a bit of tactical flexibility - hence why they end up hanging on when the game opens up a bit (I still believe that had the game been 5 minutes longer last year in Dublin, England would have won) - but their real achilles heel over a tournament is that they lose a lot if they pick up a couple of the inevitable key injuries.

Nice to get an external view of our shape.  The timing of our hanging on game can be badly timed, yes.  Often we hunker down too early and that just invites the fightback, but it also enthuses the fightback because all sides now know that Ireland don't really come out of their box if they are clinging to the few points.  So for them it's a game of try, try and try again to get that try, try and try.  No real counter-hitting from Ireland in a dangerous enough way to stall the enthusiasm of the opposition to give it a big surge of attack.

That is our downfall - we don't show enough resolute attacking aggression when ahead.  We almost pass the ball over to the opposition so that they can have their chance to get back at us.  Yep.  It's the bit of our game most Irish fans will say annoys/irritates/exacerbates them most.

There is no reason to stop bulling if bulling got the lead.  But caution is now inbred into players on Ireland duty.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 3:27 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:

Rog? Bahahaha. You serious? Also Neil Jenkins? A good kicker yes but not a whole lot else.

Wilko is the only contender but he spent too much of career injured so his stock suffered as a result. Only really featured on one Lions tour.

ROG, the current 4th highest rugby scorer of all time and one of the best game managing 10's?
Jenkins, the current 3rd highest rugby scorer of all time and who was actually much more than just a kicker?

Yes, I do think they were both better than Sexton.

Both Rog and Jenkins kicked a lot of points, both had long careers. Big deal. Id say if Sexton had as many caps as those guys he would have a similar tally.

I doubt Rog even thinks he was better than Sexton is now. The fact that he never started a Lions test in an era when Stephen Jones did tells you all you need to know.

Sexton's points per game average is higher than Rogs and Sexton wasn't even goal kicker for a fair proportion of his caps.

Sexton at 8.8 per game and ROG at 8.3, some major difference there. Jenkins was well over 12...

I understand you are a Leinster fan and as such Sexton is brilliant but at least try and look at things objectively.

You brought it up.

I think you are messing but anyway its very easy to be objective in this discussion.

Which out half of the three has played OH for two Lions tours?
Which out half has the B&I record for points scored in a Champions Cup final?
Which has a world player of the year nomination?
Which OH has won against NZ?

There is no doubt that Jenkins was a great kicker but he didn't bring much else to the party. Rog was a very good player too but "objectively speaking" Sexton has achieved more and has more strengths.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Scottrf on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 3:30 pm

Only objective measure is win rate.

Sexton 57.2%
O'Gara 57.3 %
Jenkins 51.6%

So narrow O'Gara win. Not quite Farrell's 72.9% though

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by SecretFly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 3:32 pm

..did anyone hear about the woman that needed to be rescued after she climbed into a tree to rescue her cat?

No?

Whistle Never mind.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by TrailApe on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 3:34 pm

..did anyone hear about the woman that needed to be rescued after she climbed into a tree to rescue her cat?

and then they send the Army in a Green Goddess to effect the rescue?

I think I know the tune to that one.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 3:37 pm

Scottrf wrote:Only objective measure is win rate.

Sexton 57.2%
O'Gara 57.3 %
Jenkins 51.6%

So narrow O'Gara win. Not quite Farrell's 72.9% though

Farrell isn't an out half.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Scottrf on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 3:39 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Only objective measure is win rate.

Sexton 57.2%
O'Gara 57.3 %
Jenkins 51.6%

So narrow O'Gara win. Not quite Farrell's 72.9% though

Farrell isn't an out half.

He is. Just fills in expertly. At FH his win rate is 58%. A drop, but still the best.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by SecretFly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 3:52 pm

Last post of the day from me..... last post of the day from me..... last post of the day from me

Sorry about the echo.

Question:  Did the Welsh take a wrong turn at Albuquerque?

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by eirebilly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:10 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
You brought it up.

I think you are messing but anyway its very easy to be objective in this discussion.

Which out half of the three has played OH for two Lions tours?
Which out half has the B&I record for points scored in a Champions Cup final?
Which has a world player of the year nomination?
Which OH has won against NZ?

There is no doubt that Jenkins was a great kicker but he didn't bring much else to the party. Rog was a very good player too but "objectively speaking" Sexton has achieved more and has more strengths.

I didn't bring it up, you did with your claim that Sexton was the most accomplished 10 from the British Isles in the last 50 years. I countered it with a few names. I feel that your desperation to put Sexton ahead of all other excellent 10's has seriously clouded your judgement.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by eirebilly on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:11 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Only objective measure is win rate.

Sexton 57.2%
O'Gara 57.3 %
Jenkins 51.6%

So narrow O'Gara win. Not quite Farrell's 72.9% though

Farrell isn't an out half.

He is. Just fills in expertly. At FH his win rate is 58%. A drop, but still the best.

But that does not fit with his argument Scott Very Happy
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:19 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Only objective measure is win rate.

Sexton 57.2%
O'Gara 57.3 %
Jenkins 51.6%

So narrow O'Gara win. Not quite Farrell's 72.9% though

Farrell isn't an out half.

He is. Just fills in expertly. At FH his win rate is 58%. A drop, but still the best.

But that does not fit with his argument Scott Very Happy

Oh your .1% means he is a better player? That kind of sums the vague daftness of your conviction that O'Gara is better player. World player nominations, Lions caps, trophies and general global recognition are much more intangible than your .1%. Lol.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Scottrf on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:20 pm

Much more intantible? That's a bad thing, surely?

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:24 pm

Scottrf wrote:Much more intantible? That's a bad thing, surely?
I was being sarcastic Scott.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:26 pm

SecretFly wrote:Last post of the day from me..... last post of the day from me..... last post of the day from me

Sorry about the echo.

Question:  Did the Welsh take a wrong turn at Albuquerque?

Well, while eating a hot dog, they were scared by jumping frogs

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:31 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
You brought it up.

I think you are messing but anyway its very easy to be objective in this discussion.

Which out half of the three has played OH for two Lions tours?
Which out half has the B&I record for points scored in a Champions Cup final?
Which has a world player of the year nomination?
Which OH has won against NZ?

There is no doubt that Jenkins was a great kicker but he didn't bring much else to the party. Rog was a very good player too but "objectively speaking" Sexton has achieved more and has more strengths.

I didn't bring it up, you did with your claim that Sexton was the most accomplished 10 from the British Isles in the last 50 years. I countered it with a few names. I feel that your desperation to put Sexton ahead of all other excellent 10's has seriously clouded your judgement.

No you brought up the points tally not me. It was your trump card argument for Rog being the better player. It backfired when you realised the points per game average was lower despite Sexton not being kicker for about 10 of his caps.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:34 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Only objective measure is win rate.

Sexton 57.2%
O'Gara 57.3 %
Jenkins 51.6%

So narrow O'Gara win. Not quite Farrell's 72.9% though

Farrell isn't an out half.

He is. Just fills in expertly. At FH his win rate is 58%. A drop, but still the best.

But that does not fit with his argument Scott Very Happy

The percentages also are not correct. Sexton's international win ration is 57.7 which is higher than O'Gara. Also his win ratios have significantly increased since O'Gara has retired and he has played the majority of games rather than as a sub for O'Gara. Coincidence?

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by The Oracle on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:57 pm

SecretFly wrote:Last post of the day from me..... last post of the day from me..... last post of the day from me

Sorry about the echo.

Question:  Did the Welsh take a wrong turn at Albuquerque?

I think you lost us at ‘confidence’ on page 2!
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 5:04 pm

No banter at all from the Welsh, not even a pop at Drico nor a reference to the 2011 world cup quarter final.

Was reading the roll of honour at my local rugby club and realised Cliff Morgan once played for my local club in Dublin. Not sure how I missed that one.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by RiscaGame on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 5:09 pm

No point mentioning Drico. He’s a nobody. There should be more talk about his best friend Cory Hill.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by The Oracle on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 5:09 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:No banter at all from the Welsh, not even a pop at Drico nor a reference to the 2011 world cup quarter final.

Was reading the roll of honour at my local rugby club and realised Cliff Morgan once played for my local club in Dublin. Not sure how I missed that one.


I think posters are wary of the ever twitchy ‘SRU Mods’ (TM) who hand out bans like sweets for light to moderate banter. It’s not worth the hassle Very Happy
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 5:11 pm

RiscaGame wrote:No point mentioning Drico. He’s a nobody. There should be more talk about his best friend Cory Hill.

Kaplan has just singled out BOD as an average captain in his podcast in terms of how BOD dealt with refs.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Sin é on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 5:23 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Only objective measure is win rate.

Sexton 57.2%
O'Gara 57.3 %
Jenkins 51.6%

So narrow O'Gara win. Not quite Farrell's 72.9% though

Farrell isn't an out half.

He is. Just fills in expertly. At FH his win rate is 58%. A drop, but still the best.

But that does not fit with his argument Scott Very Happy

Oh your .1% means he is a better player? That kind of sums the vague daftness of your conviction that O'Gara is better player. World player nominations, Lions caps, trophies and general global recognition are much more intangible than your .1%. Lol.  

Not as much talent around now as there was when ROG was playing - Wilko (and probably one of the greatest players of all time (Dan Carter).
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Sin é on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 5:25 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:No point mentioning Drico. He’s a nobody. There should be more talk about his best friend Cory Hill.

Kaplan has just singled out BOD as an average captain in his podcast in terms of how BOD dealt with refs.

Did he single out the good ones (i.e., Richie?)
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by The Oracle on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 5:29 pm

Sin é wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:No point mentioning Drico. He’s a nobody. There should be more talk about his best friend Cory Hill.

Kaplan has just singled out BOD as an average captain in his podcast in terms of how BOD dealt with refs.

Did he single out the good ones (i.e., Richie?)

Todd Blackadder was mentioned as being good.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 7:36 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
You brought it up.

I think you are messing but anyway its very easy to be objective in this discussion.

Which out half of the three has played OH for two Lions tours?
Which out half has the B&I record for points scored in a Champions Cup final?
Which has a world player of the year nomination?
Which OH has won against NZ?

There is no doubt that Jenkins was a great kicker but he didn't bring much else to the party. Rog was a very good player too but "objectively speaking" Sexton has achieved more and has more strengths.

I didn't bring it up, you did with your claim that Sexton was the most accomplished 10 from the British Isles in the last 50 years. I countered it with a few names. I feel that your desperation to put Sexton ahead of all other excellent 10's has seriously clouded your judgement.

Yep, 50 years is a big time scale. I bet he's never heard of Barry John or Jonathan Davies.

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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Sin é on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 8:59 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's the one thing I always credit Gatland with.  He has always upped Welsh player fitness during his periods with them.  He has always had them arriving at International much more finely tuned than when they are at their respective Regions.

That MIGHT be changing now and Welsh Regions might be improving with in-house training but Gatland has often remarked in his time the work he needed to do to get his players up to speed for International.  This he has always done with ruthless efficiency.  I admire that drive in him.  His players might not always be the best on paper but they'll never be outmatched for fitness and the ability to play hard past the 80 minutes.

It's much easier to carry out the game plans when you have the puff and mental alertness to do so, right to the end.


I recall, that Mick McGurn (used to be Ireland S&C man when EOS was coach and who later moved to work with Ospreys) say that in 2009, the Welsh teams were very unfit and it was probably why Ireland won the grand slam in 2009. After that, seemingly went about making Wales the fittest rugby team in the world.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 22 Feb 2018, 10:41 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
You brought it up.

I think you are messing but anyway its very easy to be objective in this discussion.

Which out half of the three has played OH for two Lions tours?
Which out half has the B&I record for points scored in a Champions Cup final?
Which has a world player of the year nomination?
Which OH has won against NZ?

There is no doubt that Jenkins was a great kicker but he didn't bring much else to the party. Rog was a very good player too but "objectively speaking" Sexton has achieved more and has more strengths.

I didn't bring it up, you did with your claim that Sexton was the most accomplished 10 from the British Isles in the last 50 years. I countered it with a few names. I feel that your desperation to put Sexton ahead of all other excellent 10's has seriously clouded your judgement.

Yep, 50 years is a big time scale. I bet he's never heard of Barry John or Jonathan Davies.

Who?
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Re: Ireland v Wales 24/02/2018 14:15

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