Ulster Rugby 2017-18

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Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Kingshu on Wed 14 Feb 2018, 4:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

I was thinkung similar McCloskey for me has been better than Arnold and Farrell and just isnt being picked. Hopefully a resurgent Ulster will make it all better

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 12:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Just rang up the club and the person was unaware there was an event going on tonight

Seriously ! - this is supposed to be a professional outfit picard  

Is there any chance Ulster Rugby are currently filming a reality, comedy documentary? Surely only a comic genius could write these goings on.

Best bit is, there's another event on this afternoon in the same place Rolling Eyes

Is David Brent involved?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 1:04 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Just rang up the club and the person was unaware there was an event going on tonight

Seriously ! - this is supposed to be a professional outfit picard  

Is there any chance Ulster Rugby are currently filming a reality, comedy documentary? Surely only a comic genius could write these goings on.

Best bit is, there's another event on this afternoon in the same place Rolling Eyes

Is David Brent involved?

He's staying clear until he takes over from Logan

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Sin é on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 1:30 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:I do wonder how many of the Ulster games Premier Sports will bother to televise though. With this season having multiple broadcasters all was fine but with the one broadcaster will they select who to televise between the provinces when matches clash? Will there be a red button choice of which match to watch? What's happening folks? Help!!!!

Premier Sports is owned by Michael O'Rourke formerly of Setanta Sports which was bought by Eircom. He is ceo of Eirsport so I expect you will get everything that is available to Eirsport. Eirsport is a similar setup to BT Sport. We get Eirsport free with Eircom broadband and there also seems to be some sort of a deal with BT Sport. I don't have Eircom broadband, but my sister has, so I use one of her account (you get 3 internet ones). It works perfectly from ipad & chrome cast to tv.

By the way, from what I can see, Premier Sports have 7-day catch-up.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by rodders on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 1:38 pm

Sin é wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:I do wonder how many of the Ulster games Premier Sports will bother to televise though. With this season having multiple broadcasters all was fine but with the one broadcaster will they select who to televise between the provinces when matches clash? Will there be a red button choice of which match to watch? What's happening folks? Help!!!!

Premier Sports is owned by Michael O'Rourke formerly of Setanta Sports which was bought by Eircom. He is ceo of Eirsport so I expect you will get everything that is available to Eirsport. Eirsport is a similar setup to BT Sport. We get Eirsport free with Eircom broadband and there also seems to be some sort of a deal with BT Sport. I don't have Eircom broadband, but my sister has, so I use one of her account (you get 3 internet ones). It works perfectly from ipad & chrome cast to tv.

By the way, from what I can see, Premier Sports have 7-day catch-up.

Right so what we are saying is that I should cancel skysports at the first oportunity, get BT sport and with it get eirsport/premier?
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 1:45 pm

That's it Rodders - your getting with the program Very Happy

Next year Sky Sports will be a grossly over priced waste of space for a Rugby Union fan

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Sin é on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:16 pm

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:I do wonder how many of the Ulster games Premier Sports will bother to televise though. With this season having multiple broadcasters all was fine but with the one broadcaster will they select who to televise between the provinces when matches clash? Will there be a red button choice of which match to watch? What's happening folks? Help!!!!

Premier Sports is owned by Michael O'Rourke formerly of Setanta Sports which was bought by Eircom. He is ceo of Eirsport so I expect you will get everything that is available to Eirsport. Eirsport is a similar setup to BT Sport. We get Eirsport free with Eircom broadband and there also seems to be some sort of a deal with BT Sport. I don't have Eircom broadband, but my sister has, so I use one of her account (you get 3 internet ones). It works perfectly from ipad & chrome cast to tv.

By the way, from what I can see, Premier Sports have 7-day catch-up.

Right so what we are saying is that I should cancel skysports at the first oportunity, get BT sport and with it get eirsport/premier?

No, not yet. I just wouldn't worry about Premier Sports not supplying all games or how well the technology works. The Eirsport App is excellent so I'd presume the Premier Sports one is the same.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:18 pm

The only thing I watched on BBC was the Ulster games, absolutely nothing else. Can I now unsubscribe please??

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:19 pm

If Premier Sports/Eirsport don't do certain games no one else will so the ditch Sky to save money (as a fan only of Rugby Union) still makes perfect sense

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:29 pm

It's a huge shame as I reckon most of my matchday access will be via radio only. A step back in time for me. I don't ever pay for channels so perhaps it's simply karma for all my pirating etc.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by rodders on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:43 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:The only thing I watched on BBC was the Ulster games, absolutely nothing else. Can I now unsubscribe please??

Come off it Pete you must watch the Nolan show .... Run
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:51 pm

rodders wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:The only thing I watched on BBC was the Ulster games, absolutely nothing else. Can I now unsubscribe please??

Come off it Pete you must watch the Nolan show .... Run

The only thing I watched on BBC was the Ulster games AND THE NOLAN SHOW, absolutely nothing else. Can I now unsubscribe please?? Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by neilthom7 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 2:52 pm

rodders wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:Looking a lot like BBC are going to miss out on the Guinness pro 14 games to Premier Sports.
I know one thing for sure if Premier Sports think I will adding them to the ever increasing list of pay tv providers I have to subscribe to so I can watch rugby and other sports then they will be very disappointed.

It could be EirSport for NI.

Fook sake, anyone know how to get these? Can you add on to sky?

they are on channel 423 (EirSport) and 428 (Premier) on Sky in NI Rodders. I thinkt o get them though you have to contact the broadcaster directly similar to how you do if you want BT Sport on your Sky box.

Thanks Neil any idea of the cost? Do premier have any other rugby?

Premier sports don't seem to have any other rugby, their biggest draws seem to be some GAA and some NHL and are £9.99 a month

EirSport is tricky to know much about because the only info I can find is for ROI customers.

The problem being they can't show their full range in the North because it comes under UK so Champions league football and such will be blocked out on Sky due to BT having their rights in UK

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by SecretFly on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:03 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:The only thing I watched on BBC was the Ulster games, absolutely nothing else. Can I now unsubscribe please??

Come off it Pete you must watch the Nolan show .... Run

The only thing I watched on BBC was the Ulster games AND THE NOLAN SHOW, absolutely nothing else. Can I now unsubscribe please?? Very Happy Very Happy

You didn't watch the News???????????????

The NI news is the best bit. I haven't watched it in years but it used to be a staple in our house for some reason. "And now finally, and to lighten the mood somewhat; a man was found burned to a cinder this morning in Magherafelt after being accidentally electrocuted by a badly wired electric toothbrush that he had modified from batteries to cable in his workshop."

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by neilthom7 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:11 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
rodders wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:The only thing I watched on BBC was the Ulster games, absolutely nothing else. Can I now unsubscribe please??

Come off it Pete you must watch the Nolan show .... Run

The only thing I watched on BBC was the Ulster games AND THE NOLAN SHOW, absolutely nothing else. Can I now unsubscribe please?? Very Happy Very Happy

You didn't watch the News???????????????

The NI news is the best bit.  I haven't watched it in years but it used to be a staple in our house for some reason.  "And now finally, and to lighten the mood somewhat; a man was found burned to a cinder this morning in Magherafelt after being accidentally electrocuted by a badly wired electric toothbrush that he had modified from batteries to cable in his workshop."

I was surprised by how much that actually sounds like a story to come out of Magherafelt Secret lol

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:24 pm

Trial Chat:
ok... wow. Firstly, I may have been wrong about who was in the Whatsapp Group, but surely this is not OK from the prosecution, is it??

Rosanna Coony Twitter wrote:
Prosecution asks whether the CG in the JACOME group is one of the rugby team.

Olding replies "he's a friend yeah",
Prosecution: "sorry?"
Olding : "yes, yes he is yeah"

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 6:15 pm

I agree Clive, asking that is completely out of order and irrelevant to the case. The prosecution is displaying how desperate they're getting.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Standulstermen on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 9:28 pm

Nothing will happen Gilroy except a slap on the wrist. Did i read it wrong or was it this 'CG' that asked 'Any sl*ts get ....' you get the gist

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 9:38 pm

Just back from the meeting.
More good than bad and some honest and interesting stuff.

We are looking for a tracksuit Head Coach, there will be no Director of Rugby.
Very strong conviction must be a seen there done it coach who is a hard nosed individual.
Only when appointed will other coaching positions be considered

Their was a visceral disgust over how Logan has conducted himself and it was the one subject where the meeting got a bit out of control.
To a person people wanted him out.

Fiona Hamilton was alongside Bryn as Sales and Marketing Manager - came across as arrogant, self serving and didn't think anything
on the non rugby side was a problem. At one point near the end she got close  to say the atmosphere at the ground is not as good
as it used to be and its the spectators fault. Bryn stepped in to shut her up.
No grasp of why the number of Season Tickets might fall next year.

Bryn said we split players into 4 broad categories
NIQ - They simply haven't delivered this year and basically said Deysel and VdeMerwe are on notice
Over 30s - said only 1 over 30 (Rory) would make the starting 23 if everyone fit.
So Henry, P. Marshall, Trimble are no longer seen as first team material.
This is in large part reflected in the lack of adequate leadership in the team.
Late 20's - only 2 players in this age group would make the fully fit starting 15 - I assume Gilroy and Henderson
The failure of the Academy in these years is a big reason for our failure
(He didn't say but my recollection is this is when Longwell was in charge)
The youngsters/Academy - this is the good news getting very strong now and singled out Hall, Dunleavy, O'Toole, McCluskey and Regan
as local players to look out for.
Said a lot of 'dead wood' would be going (didn't use those words but that is what he meant) and that youngsters will be playing on preference to average squad players  
Singled out Ludik as a  model professional.
Said we are still entitled to 4 NIQ and a Project
Said going forward the Project will be a youngster because of the 5 year residence rule.
Said we were not allowed to sign a NIQ Lock because of the number of NIQ Locks we have had in the past e.g. Harrison and Muller
Implied, but did not actually say Piatau was great last year but not this
Effectively let it out the bag that Henderson and Best will have Central Contracts next year

Bryn said don't expect much for a year or two - we will still set out to still qualify for Pro14 playoffs and European Championship.
Those will be our realistic goals. Someone said we will not be competitive for 5/6 years. He said less than that so 3/4 years it is.
Clearly sees the quality of future Central Contracts and our Academy as key to us moving forward

Touched on the trial and you know what I am no longer convinced the players will be leaving

There is more I'll try and post tomorrow
Overall he conducted himself well in a challenging environment and unlike Fiona Hamilton who was full of bullsh!t

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Standulstermen on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 9:51 pm

Luke Marshall would be in the late 20s bracket Geoff. I got the opposite impression about Jackson and Olding. I got the implied feeling they are gone.

Overall i though the girl Fiona was ok (bar the bit at the end where you're correct) but shes defending her turf. In fairness shes possibly having to answer for a boss who is absent and who has landed her and Cunningham with that task. I'd be a bit hostile. In truth (and i get the Logan bashers) im not sure what people expected two of his employees to say about their boss.

Not sure if it settles Geoff v Aukster on Cunningham but it appears Bryn identifies a group of targets based on critieria from the DoR and then the coaches (and i presume Bryn) look through the tape and pick

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 10:01 pm

Your right re Marshall - I think I'd put that down as a slip.

On the trial think I still lean towards departure but no longer 100% certain that given where we are they aren't tempted to keep.
Would free 1 of the vacant NIQ signings and allow us to get, at least 2 forwards.
He did say the trail has been a big negative this year.
Bottom line is if found not guilty (which I think they will be) and they want to stay what do we do?
They both have contract till end of 18-19.

I just felt Hamilton when asked a tricky question talked about a survey from some time ago and that justified what she did.
There was no empathy or understanding of what it meant to be an Ulster supporter.

People used the meeting as vehicle to show their disgust at Logan.
Don't think there was any realistic expectation of the two of them to come up with an answer but he depth of feeling was there and this was an opportunity to voice it - and they did.

Don't get me wrong what he is trying to do is too big for him and that worries me.
Trouble it is such as mess it is too big for anybody

As I say more tomorrow

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Standulstermen on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 10:15 pm

I know what you mean regarding the Marketing lady. I thought she answered the pricing one as well as could be expected. Definitely a lack of understanding with the fans but then shes looking at data and not performance etc. Logan cannot be in any doubt as to how he is viewed certainly i just felt that once it was said and seconded then move on. One thing he didnt say was what happens VDM or Deysel if they dont improve. Have we the balls to rip up contracts and start again? We are losing 3 CC's this year so apparently thats an even greater strain on the budget

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 10:53 pm

Cheers for the updates guys, not sure whether to be optimistic or not after that though

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Standulstermen on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 10:56 pm

Cunningham was as honest as he could have been. I suppose thats one thing to take going forward.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by neilthom7 on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 11:59 pm

I am glad that he laid it out properly and showed he does realise the challenge that lies ahead. Better to have someone who can see the problems and is realistic than some fool who is over positive and thinks everything can be easily solved.
In regards to the marketing woman, if she thinks in any way the atmosphere at Ravenhill has anything to do with this then we better hope she is much better as a marketer than her knowledge of rugby is

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by neilthom7 on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 12:02 am

Also as a marketer i think the first lesson should probably be don't tell the people that you are trying to sell the product to that they are the problem. Seems like they might be less likely to buy it if you do that.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Standulstermen on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 3:35 am

In fairness neil i thought she got the rough end of the stick. As a for instance there weren't to many hecklers until she got the mic. She was an easy target compared to 80 odd Ulster cap Bryn who was telling people how Poopie we were and being brutal. She did say that financially we are still in good shape.

To put it another way one punter said the ground was 2/3rds full for Edinburgh. She refuted this (in fairness i'd agree with her) but got shouted down for doing so. I just think she was losing it a bit towards the end but beside Bryn she was always going to get a rough deal. Im not sure being in that environment would have been in the job description and as Geoff (and most others stated) she shouldn't have been there. Logan is due to do an interview they said but ive no idea on what platform or why he is.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:17 am

One area I worry about is that they are talking up the academy, a good batch of youngsters now doesn't mean all is well for the future. It's the ones that come after that we need to see, there are a few of those who will make up the team who have missed out on getting a contract at Leinster, I've no problem with that but if that faucet gets turned off for a few years will we struggle? I can't remember who it was during the week, wrote an article and pin pointed O'Toole as an example of where Ulster are at, a great prospect but playing club rugby in the lower reaches of the AIL and not competing against players who will help improve him as a player

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:27 am

marty2086 wrote:One area I worry about is that they are talking up the academy, a good batch of youngsters now doesn't mean all is well for the future. It's the ones that come after that we need to see, there are a few of those who will make up the team who have missed out on getting a contract at Leinster, I've no problem with that but if that faucet gets turned off for a few years will we struggle? I can't remember who it was during the week, wrote an article and pin pointed O'Toole as an example of where Ulster are at, a great prospect but playing club rugby in the lower reaches of the AIL and not competing against players who will help improve him as a player

Yup I read that. Think it was in the telegraph. But his point was very well made. We may have some very good prospects but they ain't going to learn much only playing low level AIL. So the other provinces young players are getting better experience at the very start of there careers.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:40 am

That makes interesting reading indeed. It's sounds rather positive to me, the fact that Bryn at least is recognizing the problems and is willing to do what's needed. Previously heads would have been in the sand on the orders of the dinosaurs in the committee but times are changing. I am utterly disgusted that Logan couldn't even man-up and show his face. He's had his defenders on here in the past but the true colours will always show under tough circumstances, he's as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. Time for a CEO described something like Geoff described the kind of coach we want, "Very strong conviction must be a seen there done it coach who is a hard nosed individual".

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:41 am

carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:One area I worry about is that they are talking up the academy, a good batch of youngsters now doesn't mean all is well for the future. It's the ones that come after that we need to see, there are a few of those who will make up the team who have missed out on getting a contract at Leinster, I've no problem with that but if that faucet gets turned off for a few years will we struggle? I can't remember who it was during the week, wrote an article and pin pointed O'Toole as an example of where Ulster are at, a great prospect but playing club rugby in the lower reaches of the AIL and not competing against players who will help improve him as a player

Yup I read that. Think it was in the telegraph. But his point was very well made. We may have some very good prospects but they ain't going to learn much only playing low level AIL. So the other provinces  young players are getting better experience at the very start of there careers.

With the likes of Henry and Trimble being out of favour they should surely be playing club rugby and helping getting Ulster clubs through the ranks

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:43 am

Stand

I do think she answered the ticket price question well.
I also agree it is shameful she was there and not Logan.
She got heckled I think for two reasons - firstly her body language was defensive and I don't want to be here mode (people sense that)
Secondly and more significantly when she was talking it was when the wider question about Logan was brought up, basically I think it was the subject matter that raised the hackles not her as such. Bryn was heckled when the subject matter was Logan.
She also talked about supporter surveys and focus groups.
Prior to this year you could get the responders to a survey (not all of which I have received and not have others) in a coach (slight exaggeration). As for focus groups does anyone know anybody who has been asked to be a members of one.
They tend to be contacts and as such unrepresentative.
She strikes me as someone who is thorough and good at her job with a tendancy to tick boxes.
However I also thing she doesn't understand that where we are now if very different from even a year ago and that fans mood has changed.
She should have been open to take on board the mood of that meeting and the opinions of it rather than the unrepresentative surveys and focus groups.


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:54 am

carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:One area I worry about is that they are talking up the academy, a good batch of youngsters now doesn't mean all is well for the future. It's the ones that come after that we need to see, there are a few of those who will make up the team who have missed out on getting a contract at Leinster, I've no problem with that but if that faucet gets turned off for a few years will we struggle? I can't remember who it was during the week, wrote an article and pin pointed O'Toole as an example of where Ulster are at, a great prospect but playing club rugby in the lower reaches of the AIL and not competing against players who will help improve him as a player

Yup I read that. Think it was in the telegraph. But his point was very well made. We may have some very good prospects but they ain't going to learn much only playing low level AIL. So the other provinces  young players are getting better experience at the very start of there careers.

You only have to look at Andrew Porter for one fine example of what happens when the kids are given their chance to grab hold of a shirt.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:54 am

On the rugby side more interesting points

Bryn did touch on the absolutely vital need to have a better transition from Academy to Senior Team.
Show hope in the fact we have two teams in the top three of the 2nd tier and this probably lead to some representation in 1A.
Talked about trying to get the 'A' team 15/16 matches as a replacement to the now defunct B & I cup.
Also, as mentioned earlier, Academy players will be selected from now on in preference to squad fillers who are not good enough for the first team. Those squad fillers will not be getting their contract renewed

Secondly the identification on NIQs was revealing.
Essentially the coaches write the Job spec
Bryn goes out into the market and collects the CVs (doing the job of a recruitment agency if you like)
The coaches, in consultation with Bryn make an appointment.
So as has been rumoured the buck stops with the coaches.
For next year and on the assumption we have 2 coming I have been told Bryn will be responsible as no senior coaches on board.
Did say going down to 2 CCs was a hit on our budget (this is where he let the cat out of the bag re Rory and Hendo)

Deysel and VdeMerwe are on notice.
What lies behind that only time will tell.
When Coetzee signed he said only he and Victor Vito were up for consideration and decision made for them when Vito chose La Rochelle

Also mentioned the Head Coach salary was largely paid for by the IRFU
They have a big say but we have the power of Veto against any one individual





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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:58 am

On set up I think it can be broken down into 3 broad areas

Rugby - essentially Bryn is making the changes here with IRFU backup
Commercial - a review going on by an outside source and committees will review the report.
Structure - same as other Provinces and we cant change. Works elsewhere which begs the question who can change the committee members

The event was recorded and will be shown to the committees and I am certain the IRFU.
That alone is the nail in the coffin for Logan when those bodies see the anger at the mere mention of his name

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:59 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
Did say going down to 2 CCs was a hit on our budget (this is where he let the cat out of the bag re Rory and Hendo)

If Hendos on an Ulster contract and moving to CC that would surely mean less of a strain? That must mean one or both of Trimble and Payne are continuing on?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 10:05 am

I think he got that wrong I can only think of 4 players on CCs - Trimble, Best, Bowe, Payne
Next year it will be 2 - Best, Henderson

Therefore we will have places in our squad where Ulster foot the bill where previously the IRFU did.
As such our overall salary budget will go before we consider our NIQ options
It doesn't matter who is continuing on those places in the squad need to be filled - Trimble has a contract till 2019

He did say that the trimming of 'dead wood' will help this to some degree

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 10:06 am

marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:One area I worry about is that they are talking up the academy, a good batch of youngsters now doesn't mean all is well for the future. It's the ones that come after that we need to see, there are a few of those who will make up the team who have missed out on getting a contract at Leinster, I've no problem with that but if that faucet gets turned off for a few years will we struggle? I can't remember who it was during the week, wrote an article and pin pointed O'Toole as an example of where Ulster are at, a great prospect but playing club rugby in the lower reaches of the AIL and not competing against players who will help improve him as a player

Yup I read that. Think it was in the telegraph. But his point was very well made. We may have some very good prospects but they ain't going to learn much only playing low level AIL. So the other provinces  young players are getting better experience at the very start of there careers.

With the likes of Henry and Trimble being out of favour they should surely be playing club rugby and helping getting Ulster clubs through the ranks

Well that would be a sensible idea. So I doubt it will happen

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 10:10 am

Talking of Deadwood. Contracts I am not sure of

Rodney Ah You
Darren Cave
Jared Payne
Robbie Diack
Paul Marshall
Peter Nelson

Ah You and Diack are ripe for  the dead wood description
Marshall and Nelson must be under threat
Payne, sadly has no choice
Cave I think will be kept


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 10:10 am

carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:One area I worry about is that they are talking up the academy, a good batch of youngsters now doesn't mean all is well for the future. It's the ones that come after that we need to see, there are a few of those who will make up the team who have missed out on getting a contract at Leinster, I've no problem with that but if that faucet gets turned off for a few years will we struggle? I can't remember who it was during the week, wrote an article and pin pointed O'Toole as an example of where Ulster are at, a great prospect but playing club rugby in the lower reaches of the AIL and not competing against players who will help improve him as a player

Yup I read that. Think it was in the telegraph. But his point was very well made. We may have some very good prospects but they ain't going to learn much only playing low level AIL. So the other provinces  young players are getting better experience at the very start of there careers.

With the likes of Henry and Trimble being out of favour they should surely be playing club rugby and helping getting Ulster clubs through the ranks

Well that would be a sensible idea. So I doubt it will happen

I don't know it was made very clear they are no longer considered 1st XV players

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 10:12 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:One area I worry about is that they are talking up the academy, a good batch of youngsters now doesn't mean all is well for the future. It's the ones that come after that we need to see, there are a few of those who will make up the team who have missed out on getting a contract at Leinster, I've no problem with that but if that faucet gets turned off for a few years will we struggle? I can't remember who it was during the week, wrote an article and pin pointed O'Toole as an example of where Ulster are at, a great prospect but playing club rugby in the lower reaches of the AIL and not competing against players who will help improve him as a player

Yup I read that. Think it was in the telegraph. But his point was very well made. We may have some very good prospects but they ain't going to learn much only playing low level AIL. So the other provinces  young players are getting better experience at the very start of there careers.

With the likes of Henry and Trimble being out of favour they should surely be playing club rugby and helping getting Ulster clubs through the ranks

Well that would be a sensible idea. So I doubt it will happen

I don't know it was made very clear they are no longer considered 1st XV players

And let's be honest those guys have a host of experience and knowledge they could pass on, help to identify players that might have been overlooked previously. It's a win win all-round

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by rodders on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 10:30 am

carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:One area I worry about is that they are talking up the academy, a good batch of youngsters now doesn't mean all is well for the future. It's the ones that come after that we need to see, there are a few of those who will make up the team who have missed out on getting a contract at Leinster, I've no problem with that but if that faucet gets turned off for a few years will we struggle? I can't remember who it was during the week, wrote an article and pin pointed O'Toole as an example of where Ulster are at, a great prospect but playing club rugby in the lower reaches of the AIL and not competing against players who will help improve him as a player

Yup I read that. Think it was in the telegraph. But his point was very well made. We may have some very good prospects but they ain't going to learn much only playing low level AIL. So the other provinces  young players are getting better experience at the very start of there careers.

With the likes of Henry and Trimble being out of favour they should surely be playing club rugby and helping getting Ulster clubs through the ranks

Well that would be a sensible idea. So I doubt it will happen

Are you serious? I know they have slipped off a bit lately but they would literally kill people in the AIL such is the gap from club to pro rugby.

Thanks for the updates Stand/Geoff.

I do find it interesting that given the narrow remit of Cunningham's job that he is speaking so in depth about all these on field aspects. It strikes me that he is more involved and influential than we are let to believe.

Interesting you mention Longwell Geoff, I recall attending a seminar with him a while back and he came across as a bit arrogant and clueless to be honest, he as much as admitted to selecting players because he knew their parents.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 10:41 am

Longwell was useless and is, historically, part of the problem.
The knowing parents thing was notorious at the time

Regarding Cunninghams role.
I think his position has changed drastically since Kiss and Gibbes left.
Previously he was a cog but he has been targeted as the man in the best place to get the show back on the road.
I see the hand of the IRFU in this probably saying to the committee members the place is a mess and this is the only person
you have to sort it out. Bottomline I reckon he has been given a hell of a lot of responsibility that he didn't have previously

He also mentioned TV - I think it is a far summary to say they have no idea what the implications are or what the format will be
and hope to find out in the coming few weeks

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 10:53 am

Geoff the problem is there is a vacuum there at the minute, are the roles going forward going to be clearly defined or will it go back to grey areas as when Kiss was there

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 11:00 am

As I said he explicitly said there will be no Director of Rugby.

A hands on Head Coach who has experience of coaching and understand what it means to run a Province/Club at this level.
He will run the show and will be responsible for the rugby.
Beyond appointing the Head Coach other roles not defined because that individual is central to deciding what those roles might be.
Did say they would like at least one Ulsterman on the coaching ticket but at the same time said they will not force the Head Coach to take on such an individual and that ability was more important than being an Ulsterman
On the surface it makes sense.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Standulstermen on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 11:46 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Stand

I do think she answered the ticket price question well.
I also agree it is shameful she was there and not Logan.
She got heckled I think for two reasons - firstly her body language was defensive and I don't want to be here mode (people sense that)
Secondly and more significantly when she was talking it was when the wider question about Logan was brought up, basically I think it was the subject matter that raised the hackles not her as such. Bryn was heckled when the subject matter was Logan.
She also talked about supporter surveys and focus groups.
Prior to this year you could get the responders to a survey (not all of which I have received and not have others) in a coach (slight exaggeration). As for focus groups does anyone know anybody who has been asked to be a members of one.
They tend to be contacts and as such unrepresentative.
She strikes me as someone who is thorough and good at her job with a tendancy to tick boxes.
However I also thing she doesn't understand that where we are now if very different from even a year ago and that fans mood has changed.
She should have been open to take on board the mood of that meeting and the opinions of it rather than the unrepresentative surveys and focus groups.

In terms of the focus group things i saw that as her defending her turf, similar to the financial side where she can point to some success (given the level of performance on pitch the fact we are financial sound is a minor miracle). I agree she was defensive and at the end it was silly of her to try and take on the fans regarding atmosphere.

Marty

I believe it was O'Hagan they were maybe talking about in that article earlier in the week. O'Toole is at the top of 1B but O'Hagan is down in 2B i believe with Rainey. Would there bit a bit of ego in guys like Henry, Trimble etc helping their clubs towards the end of the year. I would hope not but you never know. Our depth wont allow it at present anyway


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 11:52 am

geoff999rugby wrote:As I said he explicitly said there will be no Director of Rugby.

A hands on Head Coach who has experience of coaching and understand what it means to run a Province/Club at this level.
He will run the show and will be responsible for the rugby.
Beyond appointing the Head Coach other roles not defined because that individual is central to deciding what those roles might be.
Did say they would like at least one Ulsterman on the coaching ticket but at the same time said they will not force the Head Coach to take on such an individual and that ability was more important than being an Ulsterman
On the surface it makes sense.

Sorry I got all that Geoff, I just meant with the coach having an input into the recruitment of players I wasn't sure if there was a clear line of demarcation when it came to responsibility for what end of it as it seems to have been an issue with Kiss.


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by SecretFly on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 12:19 pm

That is a bloody good decision to let an experienced Head Coach (or good Assistant Coach who wants to step up) get on with the job he has a talent for. That was never just choosing a gameplan/tactics/substitution timing etc - it involves knowing the kind of player you want to effect the gameplan you want to play.

You can't have a coach being told the players/assistant coaches he's going to get and then expect them to work the miracles. They need more ingredients of their own making than just gameplans.

I think that is a major move in the right direction for Ulster if it happens as described above.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 1:52 pm

So... The Schools Cup Final is now a ticketed event and it costs £18 for a stand seat or £14 for terrace?
SERIOUSLY???

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 2:01 pm

It's the hope that kills you.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Standulstermen on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 2:05 pm

Was it not always Clive.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

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