England Six Nations Thread

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Post by ChequeredJersey on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 5:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

GeordieFalcon wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:In that case LIW, Ill put my money on it being the following.

6 Lawes
7 Robshaw
8 Hughes

Hughes off knackered after about 50/55 mins.
Robshaw to 8 then Underhill on at 7.

I cant see Jones bringing Mercer up just yet.

Haskell is back in to so may come into the reckoning as starter or bench cover although might be harsh on Underhill.

Could be tried & tested.

6. Robshaw
7. Haskell
8. Hughes

Lawes covering bench

I think we need to Focus on Underhill now. Unless we're REALLY struggling for an 8, then possibly pop Haskell in.

6 Robshaw
7 Underhill
8 Haskell


Robshaw, Frodo, Hughes. Hask on bench
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Post by BamBam on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 11:33 am

Surely we're past worrying about Bastereud, he's never been effective against England

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Post by beshocked on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 11:41 am

BamBam wrote:Surely we're past worrying about Bastereud, he's never been effective against England

Scotland weren't effective vs England for a few years, yet that's changed now....

Could be the same with Bastareaud vs England.

England have to be wary.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 11:46 am

Smiths a touch bigger than ford. Yes we could for out and out size at 10. Mallinder is still in the squad i think. Medium to long term smith is going to be the man though unless anything untoward happens.

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Post by beshocked on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 11:47 am

Let's not talk about Mallinder's defence.....

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Post by TJ on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 11:52 am

BamBam wrote:Surely we're past worrying about Bastereud, he's never been effective against England

Playing better from what I have seen this year tho

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 11:57 am

I agree i personally wouldn't have mallinder anywhere at present. Looks to be a longer term option at 15. So smith isn't the man for you then beshocked? Thought he looked pretty special myself.

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Post by beshocked on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 11:59 am

Smith has to prove himself, also because he's a smaller man he's got even more to prove.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:19 pm

So ford then and ignore going forwards for now. I'd agree with that.

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Post by Poorfour on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:22 pm

beshocked wrote:Smith has to prove himself, also because he's a smaller man he's got even more to prove.

Lawes and Burrell might beg to differ. Smith has worked on his tackling and has visibly improved over the course of the season - in the Big Game he flattened both of them with good technique and forced a turnover from Burrell.

He's not ready for international rugby yet, but if he continues to develop at his current rate I'm not too worried about his defence. I think he will be seen as one of those who punches well above his weight.
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Post by lostinwales on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:25 pm

According to wikipedia Marcus Smith and Ford are the same height (1.75m) and Ford is heavier by 4 kg (86 to 82 kg) He's also 5 years older.

I would have thought Smith will put on more weight over time

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:36 pm

Looks taller to me but never doubt wiki..!despite this he's well set to.push for selection.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:39 pm

The rain certainly doesn't look like it will help our Championship push - which is already a long shot.

I wouldn't be overly worried about Bastareaud, if we can keep the tempo high he'll struggle to keep up with the game. Italy didn't play at tempo and it suited him.

England's game plan in defence will probably be to send Farrell shooting up at 10/12 and force the French runners back into English forwards. I'm sure Lawes, Robshaw and Underhill won't have any trouble bringing Bastareaud down. If France can get outside that press there may be some yards to be made. But hopefully with Ford and Farrell kicking they'll be running out of their 22 and not in our territory.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:43 pm

lostinwales wrote:According to wikipedia Marcus Smith and Ford are the same height (1.75m) and Ford is heavier by 4 kg (86 to 82 kg) He's also 5 years older.

I would have thought Smith will put on more weight over time

I've met him in person, he's small.

It is his first season as an adult though. I assume he'll do something similar to what Ford did at that age and he won't tour or play the JWC and just do an S&C programme to try to put on some more weight in the off-season. If he's not going to play on tour, that would probably stand him in better stead than playing in the JWC, especially after all the time he's had in the England full camp.

He's never going to be huge, but you don't have to be huge to be a competent defender, and as long as your competent you can be accommodated if you deliver in over areas.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 12:50 pm

Im not a fan of Basteraud at all...however, Ive seen a few performances this season where he has used his bulk and strength to offload rather than just take the contact and go down.

He has looked much more dangerous and effective player doing that.
An example was the try he set up against Italy...he had 2/3 men on him but still got a very good pass away that led to a try.

That's the Basteraud that England DO need to be wary of!

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Post by mid_gen on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 1:10 pm

Ford has been tested on the backfoot for years and been found wanting. If the oppo can cut down his time and space he just goes completely missing.

Smith has that extra vision to make things happen when the team is under the cosh, space is limited and heads are dropping.

BUT

Ford and Farrell have been the lynchpin of our squad under EJ, we just have to live with Ford's failings for now. Their 10/12 pairing is going to be our first choice at the RWC, barring injuries. Smith I would like to see getting on the bench in the summer at least as he needs to some playing time even if he's just third choice for now, he's got plenty of years ahead..

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 1:46 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not a fan of Basteraud at all...however, Ive seen a few performances this season where he has used his bulk and strength to offload rather than just take the contact and go down.

He has looked much more dangerous and effective player doing that.
An example was the try he set up against Italy...he had 2/3 men on him but still got a very good pass away that led to a try.  

That's the Basteraud that England DO need to be wary of!  

Bring in Teo to take him down.
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Post by lostinwales on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 1:47 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not a fan of Basteraud at all...however, Ive seen a few performances this season where he has used his bulk and strength to offload rather than just take the contact and go down.

He has looked much more dangerous and effective player doing that.
An example was the try he set up against Italy...he had 2/3 men on him but still got a very good pass away that led to a try.  

That's the Basteraud that England DO need to be wary of!  

Bring in Teo to take him down.

We could always match like with like and play Mako in the centers

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Post by BamBam on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 1:53 pm

Better at offloading too

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 1:56 pm

lostinwales wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not a fan of Basteraud at all...however, Ive seen a few performances this season where he has used his bulk and strength to offload rather than just take the contact and go down.

He has looked much more dangerous and effective player doing that.
An example was the try he set up against Italy...he had 2/3 men on him but still got a very good pass away that led to a try.  

That's the Basteraud that England DO need to be wary of!  

Bring in Teo to take him down.

We could always match like with like and play Mako in the centers

I thought he did vs Scotland seeing as we couldn't secure our own ball at the breakdown, in fact all the forwards wanted to be backs.
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:00 pm

BBC wrote:Jack Nowell and Sam Underhill have been ruled out of England's Six Nations game against France in Paris on Saturday, while captain Dylan Hartley is a doubt.

Wing Nowell, 24, will play no further part in the tournament after suffering an ankle injury in training.

Forward Underhill has been forced out by a toe injury, but could return for England's final game against Ireland.

Hartley has muscle tightness in his leg and will be monitored ahead of Thursday's team announcement.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:02 pm

They're big blows.

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:03 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
BBC wrote:Jack Nowell and Sam Underhill have been ruled out of England's Six Nations game against France in Paris on Saturday, while captain Dylan Hartley is a doubt.

Wing Nowell, 24, will play no further part in the tournament after suffering an ankle injury in training.

Forward Underhill has been forced out by a toe injury, but could return for England's final game against Ireland.

Hartley has muscle tightness in his leg and will be monitored ahead of Thursday's team announcement.
Daly and Simmonds it is then.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:03 pm

No 3rd hooker. LCD?

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:05 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
BBC wrote:Jack Nowell and Sam Underhill have been ruled out of England's Six Nations game against France in Paris on Saturday, while captain Dylan Hartley is a doubt.

Wing Nowell, 24, will play no further part in the tournament after suffering an ankle injury in training.

Forward Underhill has been forced out by a toe injury, but could return for England's final game against Ireland.

Hartley has muscle tightness in his leg and will be monitored ahead of Thursday's team announcement.

Just read that on Sky Sports.

I expect Eddie will stick with Lawes, Robshaw and Hughes in the back row then, with Kruis and Simmonds on the bench.

Nowell will be replaced with Daly in the squad, who will possibly be competing with May for a starting spot.

The Hartley one is interesting, especially after Jones has checked a lack of leadership in the squad. Have they called anyone into the squad for cover? Would probably be a big hint as to how serious it is.

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:16 pm

*sigh. At least it's not a concussion for Underhill this time

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:21 pm

robbo277 wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
BBC wrote:Jack Nowell and Sam Underhill have been ruled out of England's Six Nations game against France in Paris on Saturday, while captain Dylan Hartley is a doubt.

Wing Nowell, 24, will play no further part in the tournament after suffering an ankle injury in training.

Forward Underhill has been forced out by a toe injury, but could return for England's final game against Ireland.

Hartley has muscle tightness in his leg and will be monitored ahead of Thursday's team announcement.

Just read that on Sky Sports.

I expect Eddie will stick with Lawes, Robshaw and Hughes in the back row then, with Kruis and Simmonds on the bench.

Nowell will be replaced with Daly in the squad, who will possibly be competing with May for a starting spot.

The Hartley one is interesting, especially after Jones has checked a lack of leadership in the squad. Have they called anyone into the squad for cover? Would probably be a big hint as to how serious it is.

Im hoping whoever it is gets promoted straight to starter and George is left as a "finsisher" if only just to see how much of a meltdown Beshocked has.


But it does strike as one of those convienent injuries.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:25 pm

To be fair, LCD is the form hooker in the AP Run

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:44 pm

Cowan-Dickie has been called up as precautionary cover.

Harry Williams apparently has some muscle tightness as well, but we obviously have 3 tight heads in the squad.

BBC reporting that if Hartley isn't fit then George will start and Farrell will captain the side. BBC also saying that Haskell is due to return to the matchday squad. I don't know if that is based on what Borthwick said or if it's just an assumption. We could have Robshaw, Haskell, Hughes as our starting back row, I'd feel comfortable with that.

Either way, reconditioning camp has obviously been a massive success.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:47 pm

I think I'd like to see haskell come.back in under the circumstances. LCD from the bench could be interesting. After a nightmare against France from the lineout he's been getting so much better. Good test for him should the need arise.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:51 pm

Id have Simmonds over Haskell

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Post by beshocked on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 2:58 pm

LCD's throwing is still a bit of a worry. Got away with multiple non straight lineouts on the weekend.

As long as the ref, doesn't mind that - England should be fine.

Good with ball in hand though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 3:04 pm

It took me a brief moment to remember who exeter were playing there!

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 3:10 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Id have Simmonds over Haskell

Before Underhill was ruled out I couldn't see Jones going for Simmonds at 7 and I still don't think I can. I think he likes a specialist 8 on the bench, especially with Hughes starting.

Something slightly different - and maybe I'm reading too much into it - but England Rugby have just posted 6 photos of the backs training today and they feature Farrell, Ford, Te'o, Watson, Brown and May. Is this potentially the backline for France with Te'o in for Joseph? None of them are wearing bibs (Daly and Lozowski can be seen defending in bibs).

It could be that they lined up with Joseph at 13 and then switched, but this would suggest that Ford might start.

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Post by beshocked on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 3:11 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It took me a brief moment to remember who exeter were playing there!

What has that got to do with anything?

Some decisions went Saracens way. Kruis for example should have been YCed and there was an unfortunate penalty for Exeter

On the other hand the ref didn't penalise one of LCD's non straight lineouts. Saracens couldn't compete as much on the lineout because of that.

Effectively negating an Exeter weakness and Saracens strength.

Still beaten by the better team on the day though.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 3:23 pm

I thought I saw LCDs stats for lineout as no 1 in the AP something like 97%.
No doubt in my mind he is the most effective hooker around the park atm.
Well until Tommy Taylor returns anyway Wink

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 3:24 pm

You just don't tend to mention things like that unless you've been playing them or there's a player in competition with a saracens player. Like you said if he gets away with it great. Test of nerve to come though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 3:25 pm

And dunn as well trev. Pretty well stocked.

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Post by beshocked on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 3:34 pm

no 7 & 1/2 I just happened to be watching the game and LCD's crooked throws stood out.

I thought he looked good around the park. I am not going to say I thought he did well in the lineout when I thought the ref let him off the hook.

To be fair probably crooked throws isn't particularly well policed but it can give one team an advantage if their lineout isn't as secure.

LCD did well in a scrum which won that particular battle though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 3:37 pm

He's really strong scrum wise that's for sure. Like I said if he can stand the pressure those last 10 mins it stands us in even better stead going forward.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 3:39 pm

England Rugby wrote:As England prepare for the fourth game of the NatWest 6 Nations, England forwards coach Steve Borthwick gives an update on injuries and the squad ahead of France.  

Can you update us on injuries?
"We've got a couple of knocks and players have returned to their clubs. Jack Nowell has rolled his ankle that he injured previously earlier on this season and returned to the club this morning for further investigation.

"In addition to that Sam Underhill has injured his big toe so he won't be in contention for selection this week as that has flared up, so Sam has returned to his club.

"Zach Mercer took a knock in the Bath against Harlequins game and has been unable to train since he arrived in camp so he returned to his club this morning.

"In addition to that, we've got a couple of guys who have some muscle tightness so Dylan Hartley in the leg and Harry Williams in his neck. So what that has meant is Luke Cowan-Dickie was called up yesterday and trained with the squad fully this morning and Kyle Sinckler is in the squad as he was last week in Oxford.

"Both Dylan and Harry will be monitored on a daily basis and see how that develops."

How serious is Dylan's muscle tightness?
"Well I'm not a doctor but it was yesterday when he trained and just found it tight afterwards. You follow the procedure as advised by the medical team to monitor it daily and all that meant is we called up Luke Cowan Dickie."

Were Jack and Sam's injuries in training over the weekend?
"Yeah they were. It's really disappointing for them. It's been great having both of those players a part of our squad, they're both excellent players and we obviously want them to recover from their injuries as quickly as possible but it's unlikely Jack will be fit for the rest of this tournament but hopefully Sam will calm down quickly.

"Whenever there is injuries there are opportunities as we've seen consistently."

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 4:13 pm

You know Hartley will be fit. Whether we like it or not.

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Post by beshocked on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 4:20 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:You know Hartley will be fit. Whether we like it or not.

He might start the game but doesn't mean he'll be fully fit.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 4:22 pm

You know for a fact he'll start.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 4:42 pm

If he's fit I'd be pleased he starts.

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Post by beshocked on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 4:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:If he's fit I'd be pleased he starts.

Of course - you like potentially crocked players starting for England.

I don't like the idea of playing non fully fit players. I've been consistent on that - to be fair you've been consistent on wanting non fully fit players.

I'd like to see LCD on the bench with Hartley out.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 4:53 pm

Did you read that sentence you just quoted?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 5:05 pm

Take that as a no then. Which is surprising given its a sentence long.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 5:08 pm

It has been 55 years since England won a six nations title in the same year as a Lions tour.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2018/mar/06/england-leggy-lions-strain-six-nations

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Post by beshocked on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 5:11 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Take that as a no then. Which is surprising given its a sentence long.

Well he likely won't be fully fit if he's struggling at the moment.

There's a difference between being started by your coach and being fully fit.

Plenty of times we see coaches starting players who aren't quite right.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 5:17 pm

Ok. I'd agree with that. Why did you quote me when saying it? I simply said if he's fit I'd be pleased he starts.did you mean to quote something else?

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