6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

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6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 11:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

Forget the Tiddlywinks at Twickers, this one’s the proper test match with soaring Scotland taking on their Ivernian cousins.  

Ireland have it all to do on their home turf to keep their championship tilt going, and Scotland have the bit between their teeth to snatch it from them and head into the final round ready to rack up a cricket score against the hapless Italians to try reach top of the table.

Scotland started cold and lost heavily to Wales but now they’ve got their game together, they could be on a roll.  But as their coach has pointed out, their away record in the last decade has been dismal.  That’s the hurdle they have to overcome.  They have the players, the skills, and a successful game plan if they can beat Ireland at their own game at the breakdown.  

Ireland started without a few players like O’Brien, Ringrose, and then lost Furlong, Henderson and Henshaw.  All the replacements stood up - VdF, Leavy, Farrell, Porter, Ryan - and then a couple of them got injured.  But the timing looks good as Furlong, Henderson, and Ringrose are ready to re-enter the fray.  O’Brien could be back for the final round.  

Schmidt has some thinking to do on how he can outwit Townsend - attempting 60-70% possession with constant pick and goes isn’t going to cut it.  Will Sexton have his kicking boots back?   Will yet another midfield continue to weaken the defensive line?   On the other hand, will Russell turn from hero to zero if his looping passes fail to hit their target and Fall into the hands of Stockdale or Earls instead?

Both sides haven’t been shy about scoring, although they go about it in completely different ways.   Let’s see if they can keep it up.

Paddies

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 81 caps
14. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 65 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 11 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 5 caps
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 7 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 71 caps
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 62 caps

1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 76 caps
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 109 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 21 caps
4. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 6 caps
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 56 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 45 caps
7. Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps
8. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 21 caps

Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 59 caps
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster) 45 caps
18. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 36 caps
20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 18 caps
21. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 19 caps
22. Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 8 caps
23. Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 1 cap

Lovely Scotsmen

Whiffy Tops
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh), Huw Jones Glasgow Warriors), Sean Maitland (Saracens), Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors), Finn Russsell (Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne),
Beautiful Rumblers
Gordon Reid (London Irish), Stuart McInally (Edinburgh), Simon Berghan (Edinburgh), Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), John Barclay (Scarlets, captain), Hamish Watson Edinburgh), Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors).
Extras:
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors), Willem Nel (Edinburgh), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), David Denton (Worcester Warriors), Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors), Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors), Lee Jones (Glasgow Warriors).


Last edited by Pot Hale on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 5:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 1:50 pm

Secretfly - some interesting points and I agree our defence is something Townsend is going to have to focus on going forward.

It is worth saying though that we're still to play Italy, so hopefully if things go to plan we'll score 3-4 more tries and only concede 1-2, putting our try tally in a better light. We still have too many against though.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by The Oracle on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 1:51 pm

Would it be cruel of me to describe Scotland as being like the All Blacks but without the accuracy? I mean that as a compliment, sort of. Scotland seem to be able to attack from anywhere and magic a try from nothing, like the All Blacks, but it just doesn’t click as consistently as it does for the All Blacks. When it does click I see a lot of similarities, as the game against them in the AIs showed.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 1:53 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:So if there is one word to sum up Scotland's failings yesterday it is execution. And not just with the botched tries - although there were 3 glaring examples, 2 of which were open goals - but throughout our game. Missed kick to touch, lineout falling apart, poor decisions with the ball and also in giving away penalties.

I think you are being a bit harsh on your players for missed chances. Ireland was putting them under fierce pressure defensively. It will probably take a year or two to develop that composure to play away from home and win. Always a good start to win all your home games.
.

Hogg's miss maybe but the Jones and Horne ones were individual errors - Ireland were all at sea with those breaks and we messed up basic 2 on 1s.

Earls did have Hogg covered after the Jones break and in fairness, Sexton held back on the tackle very well to force the mistake with the pass from Jones. Still a very clear cut chance went begging though.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by George Carlin on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 1:54 pm

The Oracle wrote:Would it be cruel of me to describe Scotland as being like the All Blacks but without the accuracy? I mean that as a compliment, sort of. Scotland seem to be able to attack from anywhere and magic a try from nothing, like the All Blacks, but it just doesn’t click as consistently as it does for the All Blacks. When it does click I see a lot of similarities, as the game against them in the AIs showed.
Laugh Ale
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by The Oracle on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 1:55 pm

George Carlin wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Would it be cruel of me to describe Scotland as being like the All Blacks but without the accuracy? I mean that as a compliment, sort of. Scotland seem to be able to attack from anywhere and magic a try from nothing, like the All Blacks, but it just doesn’t click as consistently as it does for the All Blacks. When it does click I see a lot of similarities, as the game against them in the AIs showed.
Laugh Ale


I was being serious.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 1:58 pm

On Laidlaw, I am not saying that Scotland should always be out and out attack but if they are going to play the attacking game then I am not sure that Laidlaw is the best suited 9 for that tactic.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by George Carlin on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 2:33 pm

The Oracle wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Would it be cruel of me to describe Scotland as being like the All Blacks but without the accuracy? I mean that as a compliment, sort of. Scotland seem to be able to attack from anywhere and magic a try from nothing, like the All Blacks, but it just doesn’t click as consistently as it does for the All Blacks. When it does click I see a lot of similarities, as the game against them in the AIs showed.
Laugh Ale


I was being serious.
So was I. Pretty much sums it up - I just liked the turn of phrase.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by George Carlin on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 2:34 pm

eirebilly wrote:On Laidlaw, I am not saying that Scotland should always be out and out attack but if they are going to play the attacking game then I am not sure that Laidlaw is the best suited 9 for that tactic.
He absolutely isn't. He just keeps Russell and everyone else calm.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by SecretFly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 2:40 pm

Laidlaw the soothing balm for the frenzied sharks with blood in the water. Nice read there, George.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 2:56 pm

Scotland's women just beat the Irish women.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 5:19 pm

https://twitter.com/CahairOKane1/status/972487592754270210?s=20

This doesn't look good - both from the medic who ran off the pitch allowing Healy  to play on and the ref/AR for not stopping the game!

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 5:25 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:https://twitter.com/CahairOKane1/status/972487592754270210?s=20

This doesn't look good - both from the medic who ran off the pitch allowing Healy  to play on and the ref/AR for not stopping the game!

A couple of us noticed that during the game. That was incredibly bad as Healy looked out on his feet for a short period of time. I would suggest a full investigation into how that was allowed.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 5:28 pm

eirebilly wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:https://twitter.com/CahairOKane1/status/972487592754270210?s=20

This doesn't look good - both from the medic who ran off the pitch allowing Healy  to play on and the ref/AR for not stopping the game!

A couple of us noticed that during the game. That was incredibly bad as Healy looked out on his feet for a short period of time. I would suggest a full investigation into how that was allowed.

Some people commenting on that tweet claim it was a shoulder stinger but that's not really the point even if true - he was clearly in distress and not able to play on and the medic and ref have a duty of care for the player.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 5:30 pm

It does not look like a shoulder stinger too me, he looked very wobbly and dazed. HIA should have been called.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by SecretFly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 5:44 pm

Then what about today's game and the relieved wink from Faletau was enough to signify the Italian was fine?

It did seem more a shoulder neck stinger than a knock out with Healy. As the guys in TV3 said, he looked in pain with the shoulder region and even that grimace of pain and alert discomfort in itself whilst standing had no wonky away-with-the-fairies look about it.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 5:50 pm

I guess that the way the medic was looking at Healy's head and not his shoulder and the way he gingerly walked back into line looking dizzy confused me, clearly all symptoms of a shoulder stinger thumbsup
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by SecretFly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 5:55 pm

Well, the guy that was feeling the pain was pointing to his shoulder so...............  are we talking about a doc that accidentally saws off a left leg when the patient tells him the right one has gangrene in it?  The doc was right coz he knows more about medicine? Wink

A few weeks ago a player pointing to his knee was told to point to his head in the tunnel.  Doc and medics.... trustworthy folk.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 5:56 pm

Sure, I am not a doctor I can only say what I see and to me he looked very dizzy.

The point is, he was clearly not fit to re-join the action at the time.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by SecretFly on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 6:01 pm

Well maybe the ref should have blown a whistle to allow him to be treated without players rushing back and forwards around his 'treatment' area.
Reminds me of that famous time O'Driscoll got hit with a big one and as he was being treated the furious game continued on around him and he couldn't resist reading it and pouncing up to tackle an opposition player passing his 'sick - bed'.

Crazy stuff but that's the attitude of players that don't want to let their team-mates down - the battle instincts.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by TrailApe on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 8:54 am

Congratulations Ireland - worthy Champions.

Back to my dark hole of misery now.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:11 am

SecretFly wrote:Well maybe the ref should have blown a whistle to allow him to be treated without players rushing back and forwards around his 'treatment' area.
Reminds me of that famous time O'Driscoll got hit with a big one and as he was being treated the furious game continued on around him and he couldn't resist reading it and pouncing up to tackle an opposition player passing his 'sick - bed'.

Crazy stuff but that's the attitude of players that don't want to let their team-mates down - the battle instincts.

Somebody should have stopped the game. If Barnes hasn't seen it his assistant should have blown up the moment Healy tried to get in the defensive line whilst wobbling about, blatantly concussed.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by rodders on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:12 am

Tremendous performance against an excellent Scottish side.

Gary Ringrose was my MOTM, he really is a class act and added another dimension in attack and rally improved the defense, followed closely by Dan Leavy.

Great performances across the board though.



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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:16 am

rodders wrote:Tremendous performance against an excellent Scottish side.

Gary Ringrose was my MOTM, he really is a class act and added another dimension in attack and rally improved the defense, followed closely by Dan Leavy.

Great performances across the board though.

He must have been reading all the praise of Huw Jones over the last few weeks and thinking to himself 'let's just see about all this'. He had a superb game!

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:18 am

rodders wrote:Tremendous performance against an excellent Scottish side.

Gary Ringrose was my MOTM, he really is a class act and added another dimension in attack and rally improved the defense, followed closely by Dan Leavy.

Great performances across the board though.


I agree. I think Leavy, VdF and O'Brien would make it into most teams. All incredible 7s. Remember we went to the 2007 world cup without a classic 7? Those days are gone.

Watched highlights of the Ireland Argentina group game earlier. Its amazing how disorganised we were compared to now.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:22 am

rodders wrote:Tremendous performance against an excellent Scottish side.

Gary Ringrose was my MOTM, he really is a class act and added another dimension in attack and rally improved the defense, followed closely by Dan Leavy.

Great performances across the board though.




I actually thought Devin Toner was amazing. He was absolutely everywhere and absolutely ruined any semblance of the Scottish lineout being an attacking platform.

Ringrose was very impressive though for being away for such a long period.

I'm not really that bothered about the loss at all, because I actually thought we played really bloody well. Ireland are a spectacular side and if just one of those chances had stuck it would have been a different game.

Barclay said in his column for the BBC that we needed to take our chances in Dublin because we wouldn't get many. Sadly for us we had 4 chances and only converted 1 of them. Wales were quite clinical last weekend against Ireland. I do think that as time goes by and Scotland's core unit matures these chances will stick and that is when we will properly challenge for the title. I'm not one for chicken counting but Italy look poor. Really Really poor. A win in Rome makes it 3/5 again, and to be honest I'm happy with that. I'll save being dispondant if we don't get a BP win against the azzuri.

Ireland for what it's worth I think are the best team in the NH. Almost limitless depth in the back row and at centre and a rock solid tight 5 terrific halfbacks, in Stockdale you have an absolutely lethal winger, find one more and a potent fullback and Ireland are the whole package.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by SecretFly on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:24 am

We'll need to bank this weekend but quickly realise or expect to need to go up the pace and accuracy on everything at Twickenham. All the good work and feelings would go in an instant if we got caught out in the headlights now against a sore and moody England.
Being beaten might be bearable - being outclassed would undo everything - even with the title secured. So, Ringrose and all the others to this point - great. Now the real last game to knuckle down to and concentrate 100% on.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:28 am

To me winning the championship is the main thing, it means you are the best side regardless if you lose a game. Sure, a grand slam is a nice cherry on top but it doesn't mean that much other than that.

England have won more six nations than anyone (6) but less grand slams than France and Wales. I doubt they lose too much sleep over that because you cant deny they have been the best side overall in the 6N.

For me relegating England to 5th place in the tournament is nearly a sweeter cherry than a GS though that is mainly to see the smirk wiped off Jones face and the inevitable fall out rather than a general dislike of the England team most of whom I like.


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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by rodders on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:29 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
rodders wrote:Tremendous performance against an excellent Scottish side.

Gary Ringrose was my MOTM, he really is a class act and added another dimension in attack and rally improved the defense, followed closely by Dan Leavy.

Great performances across the board though.


I agree. I think Leavy, VdF and O'Brien would make it into most teams. All incredible 7s. Remember we went to the 2007 world cup without a classic 7? Those days are gone.

Watched highlights of the Ireland Argentina group game earlier. Its amazing how disorganised we were compared to now.

I think Leavy is the best back rower in the country, bar none. Which says something given the quality we have there. He just reads the game so well but is deceptively physical too.

It's amazing with the younger guys - Ryan, Leavy, Porter, Stockdale - they just looks so comfortable at this level already and have all had a massive impact.

When you add in the experience of Best, Sexton, Earls, Kearney, Murray it is a great mix of youth and experience.

This is by far the best Irish side I've seen and hasn't even peaked yet, I predict that will be next season.

In fact, this might be heresy, but I'd be prepared to lose at Twickenham if it helped us on the road to something bigger next season..... I think we'll win though....
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:35 am

Best is one of if not my favorite player in the Ireland team, he has been the most consistent player in the last 5 years, great leader (only captain to beat all sides in the last few years) and he is great in the scrum and breakdown.

I am starting to worry though that his career is coming to a halt. He had one of his weaker games in a long time on Saturday.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:42 am

rodders wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
rodders wrote:Tremendous performance against an excellent Scottish side.

Gary Ringrose was my MOTM, he really is a class act and added another dimension in attack and rally improved the defense, followed closely by Dan Leavy.

Great performances across the board though.


I agree. I think Leavy, VdF and O'Brien would make it into most teams. All incredible 7s. Remember we went to the 2007 world cup without a classic 7? Those days are gone.

Watched highlights of the Ireland Argentina group game earlier. Its amazing how disorganised we were compared to now.

I think Leavy is the best back rower in the country, bar none. Which says something given the quality we have there. He just reads the game so well but is deceptively physical too.

It's amazing with the younger guys - Ryan, Leavy, Porter, Stockdale - they just looks so comfortable at this level already and have all had a massive impact.

When you add in the experience of Best, Sexton, Earls, Kearney, Murray it is a great mix of youth and experience.

This is by far the best Irish side I've seen and hasn't even peaked yet, I predict that will be next season.

In fact, this might be heresy, but I'd be prepared to lose at Twickenham if it helped us on the road to something bigger next season..... I think we'll win though....

I think I could say the same for Scotland.

It will be interesting next year at Murrayfield with the added spice of an extra fixture against you guys in Japan at the group stages. Both of these teams building nicely on the road to the World Cup.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:48 am

Scotland remind me a bit of Ireland under EOS. When we won it was often spectacular and beautiful rugby but it wasn't consistent enough and we were prone to epic failures too.

If I was to peer into my crystal ball for Scotland I would have to say I can see this trend remaining the same for Scotland into the future.

Like EOS' Ireland I cant see Scotland winning the six nations although I thought they would last year I don't now. Second will be their peak IMO.

Their current form really makes Ireland's world cup group a whole lot harder now so I just hope they don't have one of their good days when they play us.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by rodders on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:58 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Best is one of if not my favorite player in the Ireland team, he has been the most consistent player in the last 5 years, great leader (only captain to beat all sides in the last few years) and he is great in the scrum and breakdown.

I am starting to worry though that his career is coming to a halt. He had one of his weaker games in a long time on Saturday.

Really, I thought his work rate was excellent while he was on and his carrying was as good as its been in a while. His handling skills really suits the way Schmidt is trying to play, although the line out wasn't great in the first half.

Hooker is probably one of our weakest positions at the minute so can't see anyone else challenging the status quo until after the RWC.

I feel Best (and Cronin) is playing well enough and looks fit but I'm not overly confident he can maintain that until the RWC unless he is very carefully managed at Ulster.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:01 am

Ireland under Schmidt is consistently criticised for having a blunt attack. Some stats:

Ireland have scored 17 tries this year with a game to spare. More than any side in the last 10 years championships.
Under Schmidt in the last 5 years Ireland have scored 70 tries. Exact same amount as England, more tha everyone else.

Its not that blunt.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by rodders on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:04 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

I think I could say the same for Scotland.

It will be interesting next year at Murrayfield with the added spice of an extra fixture against you guys in Japan at the group stages. Both of these teams building nicely on the road to the World Cup.

I think Scotland have plenty to be positive about. They've been threatening for a while but it hasn't quite happened.

Townsend is an excellent coach, He was outfoxed by Schmidt which there is no shame in, but they will learn and get better.

On paper Scotland probably had better players in many positions but just don't have the same experience of winning big games that Ireland do was the main difference.

The biggest issue for Scotland to become a championship winning side is developing depth with just 2 sides. I feel they'll need a lot of luck with injuries to get consistent results and not just the odd big win here and there.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by SecretFly on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:04 am

Wouldn't mind losing.....................em................................. well, as I say, it would be bearable, rodders.

Like I said, it's being outclassed that I might worry about if the Irish boys arrive expecting England to be walkovers. Losing with honour would be alright. But keep the scoreline respectable if it were to happen.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:06 am

Ireland are now the holders of the Raeburn shield lest we forget.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by SecretFly on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:09 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland under Schmidt is consistently criticised for having a blunt attack. Some stats:

Ireland have scored 17 tries this year with a game to spare. More than any side in the last 10 years championships.
Under Schmidt in the last 5 years Ireland have scored 70 tries. Exact same amount as England, more tha everyone else.

Its not that blunt.

Correct. No it isn't blunt and it is lovely throwing up these stats that external observers seem to keep forgetting - we had the 'Ireland are going to struggle because they can't score tries' bit at the very beginning of this contest.

But I guess it's the brand of try scoring the people are talking about. Scotland and Wales and England are scoring the brand of tries most observers seem to like when they watch rugby - the Sevens kind of stuff.

I've been critical of our ways over the years in giving too much of our planned time to defending. I think this season has shown consistency of ruthless, efficient attack. I like that - I like that a lot. It is time to shift these other teams off our back and go hunting ourselves. If we have a style of hunting more than defending then I don't care what kind of tries they are. I love them all when we're aggressive.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by SecretFly on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:13 am

rodders wrote:



Townsend is an excellent coach, He was outfoxed by Schmidt which there is no shame in, but they will learn and get better.



I'm not sure I want him to learn and the jury is out on whether he will learn because I think the thing he has to learn most is to let his team have a method of calming down and lose the impatience.  But Townsend would laugh off that advice I think.  I believe he believes in mayhem and panic inducing attack stuff too much to be ready to indulge in some serious (Schmidt-like) pragmatism yet.[/quote]

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by EST on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:15 am

Firstly, congratulations Ireland - a very professional performance.

I was at the game, and it was a strange atmosphere - the crowd didn't really get into it very much, perhaps because of the clinical way Ireland play - you know pretty much what they are going to do dependent on where they are on the pitch, i'm not sure if Schmidt's rugby by numbers really lends itself to an exciting spectacle.

Either way, when the pressure came on, we couldn't deal with the suffocation. We're getting there though, it was a much improved performance than the Wales game, and if we had taken our chances we would have been very much in the match.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:19 am

EST wrote:Firstly, congratulations Ireland - a very professional performance.

I was at the game, and it was a strange atmosphere - the crowd didn't really get into it very much, perhaps because of the clinical way Ireland play - you know pretty much what they are going to do dependent on where they are on the pitch, i'm not sure if Schmidt's rugby by numbers really lends itself to an exciting spectacle.

Either way, when the pressure came on, we couldn't deal with the suffocation.  We're getting there though, it was a much improved performance than the Wales game, and if we had taken our chances we would have been very much in the match.  

It depends on the game. I was at the Wales game and the atmosphere was great. I was also at the France game and the atmosphere was terrible.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:20 am

SecretFly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland under Schmidt is consistently criticised for having a blunt attack. Some stats:

Ireland have scored 17 tries this year with a game to spare. More than any side in the last 10 years championships.
Under Schmidt in the last 5 years Ireland have scored 70 tries. Exact same amount as England, more tha everyone else.

Its not that blunt.

Correct.  No it isn't blunt and it is lovely throwing up these stats that external observers seem to keep forgetting - we had the 'Ireland are going to struggle because they can't score tries' bit at the very beginning of this contest.

But I guess it's the brand of try scoring the people are talking about.  Scotland and Wales and England are scoring the brand of tries most observers seem to like when they watch rugby - the Sevens kind of stuff.

I've been critical of our ways over the years in giving too much of our planned time to defending.  I think this season has shown consistency of ruthless, efficient attack.  I like that - I like that a lot.  It is time to shift these other teams off our back and go hunting ourselves.  If we have a style of hunting more than defending then I don't care what kind of tries they are.  I love them all when we're aggressive.

Against Italy!

Ireland, Scotland and Wales possess a lot more cutting edge than England.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by EST on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:22 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
EST wrote:Firstly, congratulations Ireland - a very professional performance.

I was at the game, and it was a strange atmosphere - the crowd didn't really get into it very much, perhaps because of the clinical way Ireland play - you know pretty much what they are going to do dependent on where they are on the pitch, i'm not sure if Schmidt's rugby by numbers really lends itself to an exciting spectacle.

Either way, when the pressure came on, we couldn't deal with the suffocation.  We're getting there though, it was a much improved performance than the Wales game, and if we had taken our chances we would have been very much in the match.  

It depends on the game. I was at the Wales game and the atmosphere was great. I was also at the France game and the atmosphere was terrible.

yeah, if we score that gimmie in the first half, it's a totally different occasion and the crowd could well have come into it. In reality, Ireland were never going to lose after the first half.

An unbelievable couple of nights in Dublin though, what a place for a couple of shandies.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:31 am

Well done Ireland, a very good win. Hope you can pull off the GS next weekend, but beware England, who will surely be hurting badly.

For Scotland, it was what might have been, but in all honesty we are probably not quite ready to pull of a win in Dublin. Carrying on improving and in two years time, who knows?


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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:33 am

EST wrote:

It depends on the game. I was at the Wales game and the atmosphere was great. I was also at the France game and the atmosphere was terrible.

yeah, if we score that gimmie in the first half, it's a totally different occasion and the crowd could well have come into it.  In reality, Ireland were never going to lose after the first half.

An unbelievable couple of nights in Dublin though, what a place for a couple of shandies.  [/quote]

Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Six nations weekends in Dublin are the highlight of my year. All nations fans bring something special when they come.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by tigertattie on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 1:39 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:My player ratings

Reid - 6

Strong again in the scrum but isn't offering much in the loose this tournament

McInally - 5

His worst game of the tournament. He looked like he took a bang early on and struggled all game. Some big hits in defence but has to take some of the blame for the lineout

Berghan - 6

Similar to Reid

Gilchrist - 6

Hasn't influenced the last few games like he did against France - I said last week he needs to up his game and he didn't

Gray - 8

A defensive beast - he made a huge number of tackles, many of which were big hits stopping players in their tracks

Barclay - 6

A willing carrier but didn't get his way in the breakdown this week

Watson - 8.5

Our best player - a handful as always carrying, got a good turnover and put in a huge shift

Denton - 6

Wilson went off too early to rate and i think we missed the balance he gives. We got to see what Denton can do over most of a game and I wasn't massively impressed. He is big and physical but really doesn't have much of a rugby brain!

Laidlaw - 6

Tried his best but failed to exert control over the game.

Russell - 6

Strangely, thinking back I can't actually remember his involvement in the game which perhaps says it all! Maybe Townsend took too much responsibility away from him?

Maitland - 6

A good all rounder but he really looks to have lost his pace.

Horne - 5

Unfortunately we can add this game to his list of games he is best forgetting about - threw an interception at a key time and butchered another opportunity (that's 2 this tournament). Avoided a 4 due to some positive aspects of play - making that break in the first place and some nice kicking

Jones - 5

His chip and catch could have turned the game for us but he made a right mess of the 2 on 1, which is unforgivable at this level. Outplayed by his opposite number

Kinghorn - 7.5

A real positive from yesterday - looked dangerous in attack and didn't make any mistakes. Delighted that he got a try and it was well taken.

Hogg - 5

Another guilty party in the butchering front, and struggled to make any real impact. He's had a quiet tournament and will be a frustrated man.

Bit harsh or Barclay and Russell and I think that Horne really does deserve that 4 you were talking about!

This and Fly's points sum up where were are struggling. We lack consistency and pragmatism. You look at two weeks ago, Jones makes a break up the right hand side, makes 40 metres and there's an iffy option to pass inside to Seymour (I think) but Jones takes the sensible option, takes the contact and lets his team do the work to get into another position resulting in Maitland scoring on the other side. This weekend you see Horne make a break and he decides to throw a miss pass which goes zipping into touch where all he had to do was pop the ball to the first man beside him and the move would have continued.

We're currently looking for the miracle ball, the deft offload or the cutting line, which while admirable and exciting it may be, sometimes we're better to just go for the simple pass, of take the hit and recycle the ball. I'm a fan of having players do lots of simple things correctly rather than doing a few risky things where sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't!
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 2:14 pm

In hindsight I've been overly harsh on McInally and Barclay - the former out in 18 tackles in 60 minutes despite clearly suffering with something and the latter topped the charts on 25 tackles. McInally has to take some of the blame for the lineout though.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 2:21 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:In hindsight I've been overly harsh on McInally and Barclay - the former out in 18 tackles in 60 minutes despite clearly suffering with something and the latter topped the charts on 25 tackles. McInally has to take some of the blame for the lineout though.

A little bit of blame, but Toner was an absolute pest at the lineout.

I really thought we played well apart from 2 serious errors from Jones, Hogg and a few wayward lineouts.

I think with the greatest of respect the scoreline really flattered Ireland because there wasn't much between the sides on the pitch. We simply didn't take our chances.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 2:23 pm

I agree Scotland didn't take their chances and there wasnt much between us.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 2:48 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:In hindsight I've been overly harsh on McInally and Barclay - the former out in 18 tackles in 60 minutes despite clearly suffering with something and the latter topped the charts on 25 tackles. McInally has to take some of the blame for the lineout though.

A little bit of blame, but Toner was an absolute pest at the lineout.

I really thought we played well apart from 2 serious errors from Jones, Hogg and a few wayward lineouts.

I think with the greatest of respect the scoreline really flattered Ireland because there wasn't much between the sides on the pitch. We simply didn't take our chances.
.

He did, but there were also instances where the drill just didn't work at all. We needed our lineout to be flawless to try and claw some possession back and it wasn't even close.

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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

Post by George Carlin on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 3:27 pm

Just realised that nobody has beaten Ireland at home in this competition for 5 years.

Don't feel quite so bad now.
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Re: 6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

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