Saffers vs Aussies

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Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 8:06 am

First topic message reminder :

Slightly surprisingly SA have gone in with only four bowlers, electing to play De Bruyn over the impressive Ngidi - Aussies team unchanged from the final Ashes test.

4 test series should be a good one - Aussies batting first at Kingsmead, and Morkel already causing Bancroft some trouble
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 2:20 pm

Rabada moves to number 1 in the ICC Rankings for Test Bowlers the day after being banned for the rest of the series.

Most of his stats are pretty impressive:

135 wickets in just 28 tests
4 ten wicket in a match hauls (Already more than the likes of Anderson, McGrath, Ambrose, Walsh & Donald, with Steyn on 5 the only Saffa with more)
Second best strike rate of all time (for bowlers with 100 wickets or more) behind only George Lohmann from the 19th century.


However the less impressive stats:
Most demerit points (9) since the system was brought in 18 months ago (Dickwella 7, Jadeja 6)
Most times guilty (5) of disciplinary action under new system (Dickella nad Stokes both 3)
Most matches missed (3)
Most separate bans (2)

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 9:58 am

Rabadas figures are helped greatly by the pitches hes played on ... 19 tests at home, 3 in Aus and 3 in NZ all seamer friendly places. SA is becoming notorius for its extreme pitches (Philander averages 19.18 at home!)

The three tests hes playeed in Asia he took 2 for 110.

Clealry the guy is a talent and England would fall over themeslves for genuine quick who can exploit favourable conditions, and hes often outbowled other star seamer son the same pitches. But his record isnt quite as impressive as those cherry picked stats suggest.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 10:35 am

You can pick and choose apart anyone's stats. Anderson is far more potent on England than away from home. So that mean he's not good? Smith averages 75 in Australia so is he only a home town bully? Certainly not

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by JDizzle on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:10 pm

Rabada’s biggest problem - outside if his disciplinary record! - will be staying fit. He’s bowled more balls in Test cricket at his age than pretty much anyone else (I will try and dig out the exact stat), and fast bowling takes its toll. Maybe his enforced absences will do him a favour!

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 1:32 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:You can pick and choose apart anyone's stats. Anderson is far more potent on England than away from home. So that mean he's not good? Smith averages 75 in Australia so is he only a home town bully? Certainly not


You can also willfully choose to igniore 50% of what someone said just to try and appear a smart arse whilkt actually fundamentaly agreeing with what they said.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by JDizzle on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 2:32 pm

JDizzle wrote:Rabada’s biggest problem - outside if his disciplinary record! - will be staying fit. He’s bowled more balls in Test cricket at his age than pretty much anyone else (I will try and dig out the exact stat), and fast bowling takes its toll. Maybe his enforced absences will do him a favour!

Number of balls bowled in Tests by age of 22 yrs 291 days:
Ambrose: 0
Donald: 0
McGrath: 0
Steyn: 601
Ntini: 752
Pollock: 899
Walsh: 1028
Hadlee: 1409
Anderson: 2034
Marshall: 2094
Holding: 2910
Wasim: 4975
*RABADA: 5254*
Wrap him in cottonwool, Cricket SA. #SaveKGsKnees

@TomEatonSA

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by kingraf on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 11:28 am

James Anderson averages in South Africa, Australia and New Zealand

SA - 39.92
NZ - 36.7
Aus - 35.6

Stuart Broad averages in the Same countries

SA - 26.00
NZ - 31.5
Aus - 37.17

Peculiar that.
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by wisden on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 2:31 pm

Is it me or does there seem to be a hell of a long time between the 2nd and 3rd test here?

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 7:48 am

Rabada cleared to play the final two tests!

Thankfully they’ve seen sense - couldn’t ban Rabada after not banning Warner for his worse antics in the last game
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 11:31 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Rabada cleared to play the final two tests!

Thankfully they’ve seen sense - couldn’t ban Rabada after not banning Warner for his worse antics in the last game

People lacking my caring and progressive instincts would ban them both.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by KP_fan on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 2:56 pm

If no-one got banned in the Warner/ DeKock affair
it would have been a travesty to ban Rabada

the whole process of banning has to be done with much more objectivity and sincerity than it's being currently handled...
its a major event & depreciates the sides significantly if Warner or Rabada were to sit out in the midst of a high pressure series

On the cricketing side....ABDV made a big impact in playing a game changing inning as he did in both innings of T1 vs India
The guy is a game changer

I liked SA's approach of playing 5 bowlers as they did vs India.....they need to play someone like Morris who is a handy bastman also as their 5th bowler
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 3:13 pm

KP_fan wrote:If no-one got banned in the Warner/ DeKock affair
it would have been a travesty to ban Rabada

the whole process of banning has to be done with much more objectivity and sincerity  than it's being currently handled...
its a major event & depreciates the sides significantly if Warner or Rabada were to sit out in the midst of a high pressure series

On the cricketing side....ABDV made a big impact in playing a game changing inning as he did in both innings of T1 vs India
The guy is a game changer

I liked SA's approach of playing 5 bowlers as they did vs India.....they need to play someone like Morris who is a handy bastman also as their 5th bowler

Hi KP_f - I don't disagree with your comments about ''banning'' although your reference to ''in the midst of a high pressure series'' could be interpreted as meaning that anything goes here. I hope you didn't mean that.

Some of the players need to look at themselves first before the officials overseeing any bans.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by KP_fan on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 8:31 pm

I did not mean that because its a high profile series the offenders should be tolerated for the fear of losing stars

BUT rather
the way offenders are judged should be consistent and throuhg an objective process

i.e it would be extremely unfair if for a similar offense one guy gets away with a 25% match fee only
and another one gets banned for a test
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 9:41 pm

KP_f - yes, at one there.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by alfie on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 9:52 pm

I have mixed feelings on this one.

I am glad to see Rabada playing in the next Test (no guarantee about the last one : given his lack of control he could easily end up offending again in Cape Town!)

But his conduct in the last match - two incidents - after all the pre-match warnings , arguably was well worth a suspension. And the subsequent down grading by a convenient two points not only looks like bowing to SA "political" pressure but rather undermines the match referee . Is there to be one law for key players in major series and another for the great unwashed ?

As I say , I am still happy Rabada (and Warner) are still in action this week. Just not sure he should be if the new laws are to be taken seriously.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 21 Mar 2018, 10:14 am

alfie wrote:I have mixed feelings on this one.

I am glad to see Rabada playing in the next Test (no guarantee about the last one : given his lack of control he could easily end up offending again in Cape Town!)

But his conduct in the last match - two incidents - after all the pre-match warnings , arguably was well worth  a suspension. And the subsequent down grading by a convenient two points not only looks like bowing to SA "political" pressure but rather undermines the match referee .  Is there to be one law for key players in major series and another for the great unwashed ?

As I say , I am still happy Rabada (and Warner) are still in action this week.  Just not sure he should be if the new laws are to be taken seriously.

They haven't removed the suspension as such. The appeal saw the offence downgraded from 3 points to 1 point, thus he is now on 7 points. It will be over a year until the first points start to be removed, and in that time any trouble would take him to 8 points and a 2 match ban. Now was the acceptance of the appeal being pragmatic - not sure - but the actual offence did seem quite mild.

Rabada will be walking a disciplinary tightrope, though you have to wonder about things if he triggers the suspension and misses two matches against Bangladesh!!

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 9:30 am

SA batting on a fairly placid Newlands pitch.

Markram gone early but Elgar and Amla playing soundly enough at 28/1. Smith shuffling his bowlers. Slightly surprising though to see Lyon in his fourth over out of just fifteen bowled...

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 10:04 am

Fifty up , just the one down.

Mixing this with watching my Tigers at AFL but as far as I can see the fireworks LD was anticipating haven't eventuated ... Yet.


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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 10:32 am

Yeah, Newlands a bit like the MCG of late... nothing much there it seems but apart from the wicket ball our bowlers look a little off line.
Need to bowl slightly straighter. Tempting the batsman but harmless when left alone. It's as if that recent India test was played on another ground... not the next strip of turf.


Great opening game alfie... the Blues are playing very well. Hope the Tigers can stay in front.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 10:36 am

75/1 at lunch ...slow and solid ? Elgar and Amla do that...

My Tigers are making hard work of it but at least they're in front.

Too much sport ...luckily Herself is busy drawing and no TV arguments ...

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by KP_fan on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 8:50 pm

-Elgar is such an underrated and not talked about batsman
But batting at difficult opening slot on seam friendly pitches he is a gem

Mind Over matter temperament .....and Thorpe like gait, nudging, pushing busy and not an attractive stroke player
Gets right on top of the ball when defending ......and plays very close to the body, with a very low back-lift....survival/ keeping the ball out is his forte& not dominance.
a very good inning today....again

--ABDV is a genius, who make sit look easy and plays amazing strokes and that's why he's talked about and highly rated compared to Elgar type hardworking guys

and the two together were on a trajectory of 400 on a pitch where 325-350 is par IMO...

--Aus has 3 dig it in , tireless pacers who play so much test cricket n yet go on and on with only Starc sitting out in one ashes test...although he was a bit off radar today and lacking half a yard of pace also because of lack of rhythm

Mitch Marsh establishing himself as a batsman gives them 4th seamer option ~130kph....can get upto 15 useful overs out in an inning and has started picking some wickets

and the seamers especially Cummins pulled it back in 3rd session ......with Aus looking ahead

Rabada and Elgar need to get it past 300, somehow

its poised to be an interesting test match...Aus slightly ahead but batting last makes it even overall still
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 11:18 pm

KP_fan has summed it up pretty well , I think. I had turned in so didn't see the late wickets but looks like a very strong Australian comeback in that last session... SA must be getting a bit concerned over the lack of support for ABDV and Elgar ?

Pitch looked easy when I was watching - except for the odd ball which seemed to jump sharply and surprise the batsmen. Might be tricky batting later on...

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Duty281 on Fri 23 Mar 2018, 10:03 am

Fascinating stuff. Warner hits five consecutive boundaries off Rabada, before getting comprehensively bowled.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by KP_fan on Fri 23 Mar 2018, 9:50 pm

--Both sides squeezed out lower order runs and hence neutralized each other....

--SA still ahead as they will get some lead and will bowl last....on a pitch that will have some variable bounce in 3rd and 4th innings

the pitch has plenty of bounce and some seam movement both conventional and reverse......not an ultra-seaming pitch though...It's bounce that keeps bowlers in the game....

Warner hitting 5 consecutive boundaries and then clean bowled was pure Adrenalin, the pre-test events carried over and in the end he was out not to a great ball but juts playing down wrong line in a rush of Adrenalin.

High quality dig it in at 140+ kph pace bowlers on both sides.....like a heavy weight boxing game....landing punches on each other . ....Aus fighting hard but will lose.....Dean Elgar's high quality inning the difference.

and SA would have won 2-1 vs both Ind and Aus at home
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by alfie on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 4:22 am

Getting a bit ahead of yourself there , KP_fan...

Even if SA win this match - and that is far from a done deal , even though I agree they have a significant edge at the moment - there is a fourth Test to come so the series will remain alive either way.

Didn't stay up to the end so I missed Lyon's remarkable contribution with the bat : I thought SA had taken a near un-breakable grip with that middle order carnage but the late runs keep Australia in it (just about). Important early stuff tonight to see how close the Aussies can get ; as batting last they really don't want to concede a significant lead and even fifty might be decisive .
Elgar deserves massive praise for his innings ; and also a word for Morkel : just about written off a week ago by many but his bowling in this innings may eventually be seen as the match winner. Well done on the 300 thumbsup

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by KP_fan on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 6:53 am

Morkel has crept silently to his 300 wickets

wish we had a 4th test too in our series
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by JDizzle on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 1:04 pm

Think Bancroft could be in a spot of bother with the ICC if that was what it looked like he was hiding...

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 3:46 pm

He puts it in his hand and then uses it as he rubs the ball. Then he’s hiding it. He’s gonna have a hard job convincing people it was something innocent

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by SimonofSurrey on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 3:59 pm

And now we have the Australians - the Australians!! - complaining about verbal abuse. Seriously? Did Lehmann do this with a straight face? Unbelievable. Since I must have overslept and it’s really April Fools Day, Happy Easter everyone.

This current Australian side play an excellent brand of combative cricket whilst plumbing the lowest depths of the moral and sporting gutters. This latest passive-aggressive idiocy from their self-righteous management is beneath farcical.


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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by KP_fan on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 4:00 pm

Has Australian Cricket team been caught ball tampering
Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by JDizzle on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 4:32 pm

KP_fan wrote:Has Australian Cricket team been caught ball tampering
Shocked Shocked Shocked

To quote Hugh Laurie in Blackadder - ‘As guilty as a puppy sitting next to pile of poo.’

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 5:09 pm

The Australian cricket teams role as the moral arbiters of our game under serious scrutiny here. I’m shook.
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Guest on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 5:37 pm

Christ! They're digging themselves into an even bigger hole in the press conference.

Cheats.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Maine man on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 5:37 pm

Well well well. Hefty bans could be coming although they may be shortened as they've come clean but only because they were caught.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 6:02 pm

What rotten bad luck to get caught the very first time you carry out a premeditated plan to cheat
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Duty281 on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 6:07 pm

A dark couple of days for Test Cricket.

England not giving a toss and getting rolled out for 58 was bad enough, but this is far worse. It has ruined what has been, until now, a great series. It is a shameful moment in the proud history of Australian cricket.

Lifetime bans, please. For Bancroft. For Smith. For the head coach. For anyone in the ‘leadership group’. Cheating must be punished with zero tolerance.

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 6:25 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:What rotten bad luck to get caught the very first time you carry out a premeditated plan to cheat

It’s not their fault, people keep being mean

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 8:02 pm

Duty281 wrote:A dark couple of days for Test Cricket.

England not giving a toss and getting rolled out for 58 was bad enough, but this is far worse. It has ruined what has been, until now, a great series. It is a shameful moment in the proud history of Australian cricket.

Lifetime bans, please. For Bancroft. For Smith. For the head coach. For anyone in the ‘leadership group’. Cheating must be punished with zero tolerance.

At very least they should face a lengthy suspension.
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by msp83 on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 8:09 pm

Steve Smith got away with it in Bangalure, but his attempt to cheat the game through Bancroft is so very clearly exposed here. Perhaps he would now say Bancroft didn't know the rules of the game, or that the skipper's brain went dysfunctional for a moment there or all this is just about within the mythical Australian line that they keep talking about.
Hopefully, the rest of us won't be fooled any more, this band of holier than thou cheats would be given the strongest punishment...

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by msp83 on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 8:14 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Smith and his fellow cheats would get away with it yet again, Australians have a history, Shane Warne, Mark Waugh and many others...

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by GSC on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 8:46 pm

Smith should resign as captain. Lengthy bans for him and Bancroft.

Cheating is one thing but actively planning it beforehand is inexcusable
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by KP_fan on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 9:01 pm

msp83 wrote:Steve Smith got away with it in Bangalure, but his attempt to cheat the game through Bancroft is so very clearly exposed here. Perhaps he would now say Bancroft didn't know the rules of the game, or that the skipper's brain went dysfunctional for a moment there or all this is just about within the mythical Australian line that they keep talking about.
Hopefully, the rest of us won't be fooled any more, this band of holier than thou cheats would be given the strongest punishment...

Right, what they did in India was our cheating
Looking upto the dressing room for a prompt on the DRS
But got away with nothing as a penalty

& This time too Aus as a team and Smith as a captain will get away
Bancroft will be fined 50% match fee and this issue will blow over...sadly
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 9:04 pm

GSC wrote:Smith should resign as captain. Lengthy bans for him and Bancroft.

Cheating is one thing but actively planning it beforehand is inexcusable

Not only planning beforehand, but when it was shown on the big screen, Lehmann clearly radios down to the 12th man to go on and tell Bancroft to take the thing out of his pocket and put down his pants - presumably in the hope if his pockets were inspected there would be nothing in there. Of course the cameras caught this all...
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 9:17 pm

Something outrageous:

“Ball tampering carries a maximum 1 Test ban (level two offence). 50-100percent match fee.“

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by JDizzle on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 9:21 pm

All depends whether this was, as they claim, the first time they had done it. Which I would like to believe, possibly naively, but rough from the pitch applied to a piece of tape to change the condition of the ball? Seems a very intricate method to be decided upon in a quick meeting of the leadership group... Presumably which contains Warner and AN Other (Lyon?) who's should also receive hefty fines.

Also, I'd be interested on any insight on why Atherton wasn't forced to resign in 1994? I suppose you can argue dirt isn't the same as an artificial substance, but he knew he was being shady... Were things just different back then, in regards to not having the videos spread so fast maybe?

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by JDizzle on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 9:23 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Something outrageous:

“Ball tampering carries a maximum 1 Test ban (level two offence). 50-100percent match fee.“

No doubt they can find something more serious to change them with. As common sense dictates this is much worse than Faf sucking on mints and shining the ball...

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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by KP_fan on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 9:42 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Something outrageous:

“Ball tampering carries a maximum 1 Test ban (level two offence). 50-100percent match fee.“

well then that makes it a risk worth taking Very Happy
make the junior-most guy or 12th man do it
even a one test ban ain't too bad ...if in unlikely case you get caught
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 9:54 pm

https://twitter.com/dpcoverdale/status/977663181198974976?s=21
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by GSC on Sat 24 Mar 2018, 9:54 pm

Might only be able to get Bancroft on 1 match but I suspect Smith won't be as lucky for planning it
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Re: Saffers vs Aussies

Post by Duty281 on Sun 25 Mar 2018, 12:36 am

I’m sure there’s some vague charge of ‘bringing the game into disrepute’ that the ICC can use if they want to punish the perpetrators.

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