6 Nations: England v Ireland - Our Favourite Bestest Neighbours - 17 March 2018

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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 11 Mar - 9:05

First topic message reminder :

I’ve always thought that England are a very good team and their fans are lovely and the most popular.

Feel free to add your own thoughts as we approach next weekend’s match as we travel over to visit them and celebrate with them.  And I’m sure that they’ll be as welcoming and fun-filled as they always are whenever we play them.  

As we all know, it’s only a game and sure it doesn’t matter who wins.....


Lovely England Team

Watson, May, Joseph, Te'o, Daly, Farrell, Wigglesworth, Simmonds, Haskell, Robshaw, Kruis, Itoje, Sinckler, Hartley, Mako

George, MArler, Cole, Launchbury, Armand, Care, Ford, Brown

Super Controlling Unbelievable Mauling Monster Yeti Irish Team

Kearney, Earls, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale, Sexton Murray, Stander, Leavy, O'Mahony, Ryan, Henderson, Furlong, Best, Healy.

Reps: Cronin, McGrath, Porter, Toner, Murphy, Marmion, Carbery, Larmour.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Thu 15 Mar - 14:18; edited 2 times in total
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 17 Mar - 18:05

There's alway the reality that injury may force hom back but I'd assume that Wigglesworth possibly Kruis. Thought that Joseph was poor today and given he may be looking to a rejunivanted Tuilagi? Haskell had a good game but there's a few youngsters pushing.

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 17 Mar - 18:06

[quote="No 7&1/2"]So we ignore the knock on and write off Watson? [/quote

Geee this is a tough crowd. Yes I have decided:)

I think Daly's kicking game is superior and he plays for Wasps!


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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Mar - 18:08

No9 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Eddie Jones apparently said that some players have played their last game for England - any idea who that would mean?

Wigglesworth mainly because he's old, maybe Haskel but I thought he did ok today! Brown? Bit harsh.

Eddie may regret that, as that could have been the last time he coaches England censored

Surely not? Given the record he had going into the tournament I think he's more than earned the chance to fix it.

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 17 Mar - 18:10

No 7&1/2 wrote:There's alway the reality that injury may force hom back but I'd assume that Wigglesworth possibly Kruis.  Thought that Joseph was poor today and given he may be looking to a rejunivanted Tuilagi?  Haskell had a good game but there's a few youngsters pushing.

I think Joseph is knackered and shouldn't play another game this season. Like many in the same position he has struggled for form.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 17 Mar - 18:12

Itoje was like watching his older less talented half brother, the guy is knackered
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Post by Sin é on Sat 17 Mar - 18:14

Hard luck England, but it was a really nice win for us today. Very Happy Very Happy

Ps. If I was to be hard on anyone, it would be EJ! He has been found out.

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Post by Sin é on Sat 17 Mar - 18:15

TightHEAD wrote:Itoje was like watching his older less talented half brother, the guy is knackered

He is a young guy who has played a lot of rugby. Needs a break. He will be grand if he gets that break.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 17 Mar - 18:20

Like schmidt was getting a kicking and then wins a grand slam sin?

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Post by Sin é on Sat 17 Mar - 18:27

No 7&1/2 wrote:Like schmidt was getting a kicking and then wins a grand slam sin?

Well, I'd be one of the ones who has always questioned him. But credit is due to what he has achieved. That was a big win in Twickers.
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Post by mid_gen on Sat 17 Mar - 18:30

kingelderfield wrote:
mid_gen wrote:Fluffing the high ball to concede the first try. Brown is much stronger in the air and much better at carrying back in traffic, and clearing up messy ball.

Watson is a fine winger, but isn't a patch on Brown when it comes to the core skills at 15.

Can't disagree with this. Brown does my head in. The guy is brilliant at the core and more, but he has failed to pass on too many occasions regardless of Poorfours instructive theory. Plus he is getting older which is not his fault and frustrating as hell as it colours the debate.

Daly will hopefully fare better. I'm actually sure he will, but yes the proof is there for all to see, Watson must now compete for a wing and occasional FB cover.

Brown created a try with a nice handoff and offload remember. I agree he's getting on a bit and lacks outright pace though. The problem is we don't have any other EQP 15s that are better than him.

I'm not slating Watson, he's an alright full back, but Brown is better.

Winger Watson is a much, much better player than FB Watson.

I wouldn't mind seeing Nowell tried out at full back, you need that physical edge, a willingness to put your body on the line when going to claim the high ball, and carrying hard and staying on his feet long enough to clean up Scrappy ball. Daly for me is a smarter, better version of Johnny May.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 17 Mar - 18:30

Sin é wrote:Hard luck England, but it was a really nice win for us today.  Very Happy  Very Happy

Ps. If I was to be hard on anyone, it would be EJ! He has been found out.


Can you blame him for stupid in field decisions by senior players?

I'm watching the game on record and in the first half we've seen Hartley make a mess of two lineouts in the 22, Farrell give away a completely needless penalty that turned a poor clearance into the field position for the first Irish try. The first penalty received has easily kick able and just after Ireland scored. No easy three points a kick to the corner. Add that to the general bad decision making resulting in so many penalties against and it's enough to have any coach pulling his hair out.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 17 Mar - 18:37

Exactly sin. To say jones has been worked out is very short sighted for me.

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Post by stub on Sat 17 Mar - 18:38

Yep Sam, I agree, you can’t blame Eddie for a lot of this. He’s done us proud up until now and I’m sure that he’s capable of sorting us out again.

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Post by stub on Sat 17 Mar - 18:39

Sin’s just playing anyway. Let him have his fun.

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Post by G2 on Sat 17 Mar - 18:45

Bottom line only one team in it. The rest of us are just also rans

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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 17 Mar - 18:46

Sin é wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Like schmidt was getting a kicking and then wins a grand slam sin?

Well, I'd be one of the ones who has always questioned him. But credit is due to what he has achieved. That was a big win in Twickers.

Feck me sin have you been drinking? Was that actually a complement? For Joe? Hug

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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 17 Mar - 18:49

Serious question, but why do England seem to find it so hard to adapt to what's infront of them?
They have some brilliant players but very little thinking player's

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Post by stub on Sat 17 Mar - 18:51

It’s a fair question baboon and one I can’t answer.

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Post by stub on Sat 17 Mar - 18:52

People say overcoached, don’t know, something often seems wrong with the psychology to me.

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Post by leicestertinytiger on Sat 17 Mar - 18:55

This has been a problem for England for ages, could tell when they couldn’t adapt to Italy’s rucks last year. Not many of the players seem very clever and be able to adapt to what’s in front of them.

Danny Care I think optimises this, great player off the bench but seems incapable of being able to think under pressure.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 17 Mar - 18:56

eirebilly wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:you can clearly see brown release, this refs bank account needs looking into

Well he didn't release at all and are you now insinuating that Ireland have bought this ref?

No, not Ireland, but ever heard of betting syndicates

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Post by eirebilly on Sat 17 Mar - 18:58

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:you can clearly see brown release, this refs bank account needs looking into

Well he didn't release at all and are you now insinuating that Ireland have bought this ref?

No, not Ireland, but ever heard of betting syndicates

Ah so its the betting syndicates that caused England to have a poor 6N...

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 17 Mar - 19:00

carpet baboon wrote:Serious question, but why do England seem to find  it so hard to adapt to what's infront of them?
They have some brilliant players but very little thinking player's

I think England have suffered heavily with the loss of Ben Youngs. Whilst often maligned and more than capable of humorous comment he is a bright rugby player. His knee injury coincided with the start of this malaise.

Eddie has been hurt by injuries, losing Billy V and Ellis Genge is massive. Big impact players, particularly Billy V.

England have talent but a lot of it is young and developing. Eddie has enjoyed a trouble free transition so far but now with the flankers aging and the need for a new full back and OC he's got some real work to do. It'll be an interesting summer tour.

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 17 Mar - 19:11

As above we need to rest numerous players, but we won't!

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Post by Artful_Dodger on Sat 17 Mar - 19:38

kingelderfield wrote:As above we need to rest numerous players, but we won't!

The IRFU has what is called the Player Management Programme. They basically force the provinces to rest Ireland squad members during certain windows. England will never have that given the imbalance between RFU control and the power of PRL.

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Post by George Carlin on Sat 17 Mar - 19:54

Well done Ireland. These days are special - enjoy it.
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Post by TJ on Sat 17 Mar - 19:55

carpet baboon wrote:Serious question, but why do England seem to find  it so hard to adapt to what's infront of them?
They have some brilliant players but very little thinking player's

My feeling is its over coaching / not allowed to play spontaneously, lack of thinking players and a too much fear of losing that paralyses them. Townsend has said publicly that he wants players to try things and if it doesn't work it doesn't. Maybe england are not allowed to take risks?

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Post by TJ on Sat 17 Mar - 19:56

Artful_Dodger wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:As above we need to rest numerous players, but we won't!

The IRFU has what is called the Player Management Programme.  They basically force the provinces to rest Ireland squad members during certain windows.  England will never have that given the imbalance between RFU control and the power of PRL.

Yup - allowing the PRL to dictate the game in england hampers englands chances

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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 17 Mar - 20:00

The RFU should ban its players from taking part and doing all the hard work on Lions Tours.
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Post by Mr Bounce on Sat 17 Mar - 20:18

I was at the U20s & Womens game at the Ricoh yesterday and the thing I think they all had which the Senior Squad did not was passion. The U20s went in 15-all at half time, and came out as though they had something to prove. It worked wonderfully. They put 33 unanswered points on the board, and Gabriel Ibitoye played an absolute blinder in a well-deserved MOM performance, including putting the scrum half in for a try after running it from inside his own 22.

The women also were great, looking like they were genuinely proud to play for their country, and having the fitness to continually take the fight to their game Irish opponents. It's such a shame that their funding has been removed in favour of the 7s, as I have heard precious little about how they've got on as it's barely been reported.

For me this England team's run of good results has been their biggest thorn as there has not been much in the way of development - the lack of breakdown success, the poor scrum half selection other than Care & Youngs plus the injury problems have meant we haven't kicked on since our purple patch. To me it has been quite obvious. Our best moments have come when we've had additional coaching by World Class former players such as Ella (for attack purposes) and Smith (for the breakdown). Eddie's own attack plan clearly isn't good enough plus a number of his selections have been bizarre. (Wigglesworth? Lawes at 6 etc). We have a number of very talented youngsters available and I would have chosen this 6N as a time to blood them. Who cares if we didn't win? Wouldn't have been any worse than the current lot...

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Post by No9 on Sat 17 Mar - 20:28

So England just blame the officials.

What’s wrong guys, Not happy because your stooge AR was replaced.

Don’t worry, you’re bound to do better in next years 6 Nations. Just consider yourselves lucky Italy are still there. If Georgia had repaced them like some of you have been asking for, you may have finished 6th.

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Post by stub on Sat 17 Mar - 20:41

Mr Bounce, that’s just it. The senior men’s team often seem deadpan and flat. I watched the U20s last night and there was oodles of passion and flair along with risk taking and thinking on the fly. Something goes wrong later on....

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 17 Mar - 21:31

Artful_Dodger wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:As above we need to rest numerous players, but we won't!

The IRFU has what is called the Player Management Programme.  They basically force the provinces to rest Ireland squad members during certain windows.  England will never have that given the imbalance between RFU control and the power of PRL.

There are agreed rest windows where an EPS squad player must miss a game. The clubs are given something like three weeks to pick from. There's only two or three of these in a season. The players are released a week before the international windows and don't play on rest weeks.

The IRFU will always have more control because of the central contracting system. The RFU can't afford/don't want to afford that and the PRL are happy because that would make the salary cap unmanageable.

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Post by kingelderfield on Sat 17 Mar - 21:43

No9 wrote:So England just blame the officials.

What’s wrong guys, Not happy because your stooge AR was replaced.

Don’t worry, you’re bound to do better in next years 6 Nations. Just consider yourselves lucky Italy are still there. If Georgia had repaced them like some of you have been asking for, you may have finished 6th.

Cretin

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 17 Mar - 21:43

Think of this. Last year was just the same. England had their system and Ireland had its system. England won the Championship, Ireland didn't.

We all can learn bits and pieces from each other about admin stuff/player welfare/fitness/conditioning etc. But sometimes it's just that one year is yours and one year isn't.

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Post by yappysnap on Sat 17 Mar - 22:23

SecretFly wrote:Think of this.  Last year was just the same.  England had their system and Ireland had its system.  England won the Championship, Ireland didn't.

We all can learn bits and pieces from each other about admin stuff/player welfare/fitness/conditioning etc.  But sometimes it's just that one year is yours and one year isn't.

Very true Fly.

And just as easily next year England and Ireland could be crap and Scotland could win the thing.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 17 Mar - 22:39

So England finish 5th for the first time in the 6ns. Still better to finish 5th this year than next year and in the run up to the RWC.

So i just wander if Eddie Jones will retire some players and bring in new players to move forward to the summer tours, autum internationals, and next years 6ns, and on to the RWC and beyond.

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Post by SimonofSurrey on Sat 17 Mar - 22:45

kingelderfield wrote:
No9 wrote:So England just blame the officials.

What’s wrong guys, Not happy because your stooge AR was replaced.

Don’t worry, you’re bound to do better in next years 6 Nations. Just consider yourselves lucky Italy are still there. If Georgia had repaced them like some of you have been asking for, you may have finished 6th.

Cretin

Steady on there, kingelderfield. He's obviously short of class and intelligence and a simple WUM but that doesn't make him a cretin, simply well qualified for the ghastly BBC rugby 'Have Your Say's, not these boards with the grown up, real rugby fan.

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Post by emack2 on Sat 17 Mar - 22:45

When I suggested England who suffered many injury problems would struggle this season I was
laughed at by some here.It gives me no pleasure to be proven right 18months out from a
RWC.It seems to me like 2014 teams doing as much as possible to win but keeping there
game plans secret till RWC.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 17 Mar - 23:06

The lions tour has done major issues on this 6 nations.

Let the Irish have this one....thwy won't have the next one.

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Post by TJ on Sat 17 Mar - 23:08

emack - other teams had injury issues as well - perhaps more and from a much smaller player pool. I think Scotland started the series missing a dozen almost all of whom would have been in the match day 23 2 complete front rows, 4 centres etc. who have England lost? Youngs? Vunipola?

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat 17 Mar - 23:13

It was the lions! No it was the ref! Maybe it was brexit.

Whatever it was I and a lot of the people around certainly enjoyed it.

BTW what is your reasoning behind Ireland not getting it next year? Blind (ahem) optimism?

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 17 Mar - 23:14

Nowt to do with brexit ya bell end

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 17 Mar - 23:21

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:It was the lions! No it was the ref! Maybe it was brexit.

Whatever it was I and a lot of the people around certainly enjoyed it.

BTW what is your reasoning behind Ireland not getting it next year? Blind (ahem) optimism?

Maybe Putin and Russia are to blame? I wouldn't put it past them to cause this sort of disruption.
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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat 17 Mar - 23:23

GeordieFalcon wrote:Nowt to do with brexit ya bell end

No. Brexit showed us the ability for the English to have delusions and blame everyone else for their real or perceived woes while at the same time having unrealistic and laughable notions of their own ability to influence the rest of the world.

Tell me what’s different from today.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat 17 Mar - 23:26

The Loaded Dog wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:It was the lions! No it was the ref! Maybe it was brexit.

Whatever it was I and a lot of the people around certainly enjoyed it.

BTW what is your reasoning behind Ireland not getting it next year? Blind (ahem) optimism?

Maybe Putin and Russia are to blame? I wouldn't put it past them to cause this sort of disruption.

I thought I saw Vladimir over for the Patrick’s day piss up.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 17 Mar - 23:28

Haha jog on ya f$%kin d×c^head...

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat 17 Mar - 23:30

Auf wiedersen pet.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 17 Mar - 23:31

What a nob head..let's bring politics in to a Frak rugby forum...

Utter bell end

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 17 Mar - 23:34

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:It was the lions! No it was the ref! Maybe it was brexit.

Whatever it was I and a lot of the people around certainly enjoyed it.

BTW what is your reasoning behind Ireland not getting it next year? Blind (ahem) optimism?

Maybe Putin and Russia are to blame? I wouldn't put it past them to cause this sort of disruption.

I thought I saw Vladimir over for the Patrick’s day piss up.

Laugh so not on hustings, no?
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