6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

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6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by BigGee on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 11:56 am

First topic message reminder :

          
ITALY v SCOTLAND
17 March 2018
KO: 12h30 GMT
Stadio Olympico, Comune di Roma Capitale

Live on ITV monkey  picard

Referee: Pascal Gaüzère
Assistant 1: Someone else
Assistant 2: Someone else
TMO: Someone else

A. Head to Head
27 Feb 2016 Italy 20 - 36 Scotland
29 Aug 2015 Scotland 48 - 7 Italy
22 Aug 2015 Italy 12 - 16 Scotland
28 Feb 2015 Scotland 19 - 22 Italy
22 Feb 2014 Italy 20 - 21 Scotland
22 Jun 2013 Scotland 30 - 29 Italy
09 Feb 2013 Scotland 34 - 10 Italy
17 Mar 2012 Italy 13 - 6 Scotland
20 Aug 2011 Scotland 23 - 12
19 Mar 2011 Scotland 21 - 8 Italy

C. Teams

ITALY

TBC

SCOTLAND

TBC

Well, I really think we should be winning this one with our 1st TBP of the tournament. Italy have done nothing to change the perception of them being an unmitigated shambles.

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:46 pm

If Edinburgh put out a fully loaded team against Munster with Berghan and Gilchrist in it perhaps a deal was agreed within the SRU given how important this game is for Edinburgh.

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:49 pm

Grigg and Jones have started in the centre (with Grigg at 12) for Glasgow on at least a couple of occasions this year IIRC, so it's not something completely new. Expect Hogg to come into the line a lot for his distribution skills there. Grigg certainly isn't underserving of a start, his form has been tremendous over the past few months and he's made a good impact after coming on in the last two matches.

Other than that, Gilchrist and Berghan left out completely could be to let Edinburgh have them? In positions where Scotland have options on a similar level without them it's a possibility. Or maybe they picked up knocks in the Ireland game. I did think the scrum looked better with the replacement front row on, albeit Barnes was reluctant to award penalties. McInally paying for the line-out issues last week, and maybe a bit of rotation also.

A bit harsh on Kinghorn, who I thought had a good debut, but his chances will definitely come. As an aside I'm happy to see Scotland try to develop him as a winger, as he's much too good a player to be stuck behind Hogg for most of his career.

It's a team that really should beat Italy comfortably.

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:55 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:If Edinburgh put out a fully loaded team against Munster with Berghan and Gilchrist in it perhaps a deal was agreed within the SRU given how important this game is for Edinburgh.

Aye i think this might be part of it. Surely with the Edinburgh players who have dropped out, I wouldn't be surprised to see Toolis, Gilco & Berg in the team for Munster.

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:57 pm

I get the rotation argument but then why not have price starting and give George Horne a chance? Same with m fagerson on the bench and I'd even say give Cummings a shot if you want an athletic lock. These players have plenty of experience against Italian teams and itd be good to blood them in a match that actually has some meaning


Last edited by NeilyBroon on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by jimbopip on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:58 pm

Re Grigg at 12.

One thing we have learned from Cardiff and Dublin is that if a side defend by putting up a solid wall in front of us we have a tendency to allow us to pass across the front of it till we reach the sidelines and then comeback (almost high speed non-contact exhaust and rewind).I think both Wales and Ireland were happy to do this until we made an error and they pounced: interception tries in both games. I think many commentators referred to us being "strangled" or "smothered".

I was wondering how Toonie would attempt to counter this, without changing his basic philosophy.

Lots of people on here are saying Grigg hasn't the passing game to be a 12, however I don't think that is the main point of him being there. I suspect he will be hitting angles at pace, breaking the line and drawing in defenders. Hopefully this shortens the defensive line and allows space outside. For this to be effective we nee a fairly mobile pack to get quick recycled ball: Zander, Swinson and Brown all give that.

When Grigg hits the gain-line at pace he usually makes a couple of metres, if he keeps that up for an hour and we recycle  speedily then we win.

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by BigGee on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 1:56 pm

Grigg is a different option to Horne, not such a good passer but can certainly blast through a gap.

I think Jimbo is right on this one, he can make some holes which the other faster players in the line can hopefully exploit. He may not be the passer that Horne is, but he is not terrible either.

At least hopefully he won't throw a long pass that gets picked off!

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 2:21 pm

No complaints about Grigg, just disappointed that the changes other than that aren't exactly inspired. If we want options come 2019 why not blood some more now, especially as Laidlaw didn't exactly set the heather alight last week. Start price and put Horne on the bench, also what has Swinson done recently to merit starting? Even after gilchrists relatively poor performance last week. For me that should have been a chance for gray to start, and maybe Swinson on bench again or preferably Cummings. I think the Kinghorn experiment proved that we need to trust players more at the higher level and from what could have been a more interesting selection looks to be somewhat disappointing and I think sends the wrong message to players who have done well at club. Especially parachuting seymour in after Kinghorn had a much more impressive game in a losing side than seymour has had for a long time.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by SecretFly on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 2:33 pm

jimbopip wrote:Re Grigg at 12.

One thing we have learned from Cardiff and Dublin is that if a side defend by putting up a solid wall in front of us we have a tendency to allow us to pass across the front of it till we reach the sidelines and then comeback (almost high speed non-contact exhaust and rewind).I think both Wales and Ireland were happy to do this until we made an error and they pounced: interception tries in both games. I think many commentators referred to us being "strangled" or "smothered".

I was wondering how Toonie would attempt to counter this, without changing his basic philosophy.


I'd say most people might suggest loosening the solid walls by putting kicks over it or through it from time to time to keep the 'bricks' guessing and take a little bit of alertness away from the wall.  I haven't noticed it because I haven't observed Scotland enough in detail (too busy biting my nails watching Ireland's tactics) but maybe Scotland don't use the kicking game enough in their running/passing philosophy game?  You have to keep the opposition between two minds all the time.  Walls aren't so secure if balls are going over them now and again.

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 3:30 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:No complaints about Grigg, just disappointed that the changes other than that aren't exactly inspired. If we want options come 2019 why not blood some more now, especially as Laidlaw didn't exactly set the heather alight last week. Start price and put Horne on the bench, also what has Swinson done recently to merit starting? Even after gilchrists relatively poor performance last week. For me that should have been a chance for gray to start, and maybe Swinson on bench again or preferably Cummings. I think the Kinghorn experiment proved that we need to trust players more at the higher level and from what could have been a more interesting selection looks to be somewhat disappointing and I think sends the wrong message to players who have done well at club. Especially parachuting seymour in [b]after Kinghorn had a much more impressive game in a losing side than seymour has had for a long time.
[/b]

Utter baws ! Kinghorn is a makeshift wing whereas TS is a proven international.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 4:14 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:No complaints about Grigg, just disappointed that the changes other than that aren't exactly inspired. If we want options come 2019 why not blood some more now, especially as Laidlaw didn't exactly set the heather alight last week. Start price and put Horne on the bench, also what has Swinson done recently to merit starting? Even after gilchrists relatively poor performance last week. For me that should have been a chance for gray to start, and maybe Swinson on bench again or preferably Cummings. I think the Kinghorn experiment proved that we need to trust players more at the higher level and from what could have been a more interesting selection looks to be somewhat disappointing and I think sends the wrong message to players who have done well at club. Especially parachuting seymour in [b]after Kinghorn had a much more impressive game in a losing side than seymour has had for a long time.
[/b]

Utter baws !   Kinghorn is a makeshift wing whereas TS is a proven international.  

Again 21st you need to take your Glasgow blinkers off once in a while - the point of Nelly's post is that this was a chance to try a few things in selection and Kinghorn's performance merited another start. Seymour was poor in the AIs (awful against NZ/Samoa [I can't remember which]) and hasn't exactly been setting the heather alight for Glasgow this season.

There's no doubting that Seymour is a proven international winger but he's not on form - Kinghorn is on red hot form.

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 4:49 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:No complaints about Grigg, just disappointed that the changes other than that aren't exactly inspired. If we want options come 2019 why not blood some more now, especially as Laidlaw didn't exactly set the heather alight last week. Start price and put Horne on the bench, also what has Swinson done recently to merit starting? Even after gilchrists relatively poor performance last week. For me that should have been a chance for gray to start, and maybe Swinson on bench again or preferably Cummings. I think the Kinghorn experiment proved that we need to trust players more at the higher level and from what could have been a more interesting selection looks to be somewhat disappointing and I think sends the wrong message to players who have done well at club. Especially parachuting seymour in [b]after Kinghorn had a much more impressive game in a losing side than seymour has had for a long time.
[/b]

Utter baws !   Kinghorn is a makeshift wing whereas TS is a proven international.  

Again 21st you need to take your Glasgow blinkers off once in a while - the point of Nelly's post is that this was a chance to try a few things in selection and Kinghorn's performance merited another start. Seymour was poor in the AIs (awful against NZ/Samoa [I can't remember which]) and hasn't exactly been setting the heather alight for Glasgow this season.

There's no doubting that Seymour is a proven international winger but he's not on form - Kinghorn is on red hot form.

Made my point far better than I could.

I'm not slating Seymour - he has been fantastic for Scotland in the past - but his form at present is simply not better than Kinghorn - hence why I find it bizarre Kinghorn got dropped. Even Maitland was saying in the press they'd have a selection headache between Kinghorn and Seymour, the other players clearly recognise that he had a great game and he's obviously going well in training.

I'd love to see them compete for the wing spot, especially as Tommy hasn't really faced any stiff competition there, McGuigan and Visser blow hot and cold and Duncan Taylor (though always best at 12 does a good job on the wing too) is permanently injured. I think Blair is the first Scottish winger I've seen who I've thought could be a genuine alternative to Seymour on form right now.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 5:00 pm

* I also realise Kinghorn's not predominantly a winger - but as Hogg is our best fullback I am considering him at wing.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 5:08 pm

No I can't have that. I would rather them play 'Blair' rather than Seymour so we get him back for next week v Zebre. Kinghorn was ok v Ireland but until he can show the consistency of Seymour AT THIS LEVEL then he remains a useful back 3 cover option on the bench.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 5:16 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:No I can't have that.  I would rather them play 'Blair' rather than Seymour so we get him back for next week v Zebre.    Kinghorn was ok v Ireland but until he can show the consistency of Seymour AT THIS LEVEL then he remains a useful back 3 cover option on the bench.  

Chicken and egg. How can he show consistency if he isn't selected to start off the back of good performances?
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by EST on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 5:22 pm

He would have had at least another try if two passes hadn't been fired about a foot over his head.

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 5:24 pm

Front row is the right selection. Nel needs to continue building up and it is a great opportunity for Bhatti (that he has earned). McInally has given his all but our lineout has been an issue for much of the 6 nations. Good game for Fagerson to build fitness in.

Swinson is made for this sort of game where his size won't be a problem. If we get into a good lead, J Gray comes off. If we are struggling, Swinson goes off. Would have preferred Cummings in for him; the summer tour should see his debut.

Back row is normal. Experimentation is needed. We lack another option there. Strauss at 8 would have been ideal with Wilson getting the week off. See if he is really needed for his bite.

Disappointed to see Laidlaw start. Really disappointed. He needs a break. Probably too soon for G Horne. Price starting with Laidlaw coming on only if it is close. Russell with Horne covering is best option for the moment.

Grigg has earned his chance while Jones needs to improve his away performances. Utter baws against Wales and Ireland; great against England and good against France. If Dunbar or Scott were in any sort of form (and if Horne did not make 2 howlers in 2 games), I wonder if he would still be here. Horne is fine to cover.

Back 3 is fine. Glasgow need 3 wins from 5 (less if Munster lose) so preserving Hogg or Seymour is silly with the amount of breaks coming up. Would have actually dropped Kinghorn to help Edinburgh's cause against Munster if he is not starting. Hope he gets at least 30 minutes (with no injuries to the starters of course).

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by tigertattie on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 6:31 pm

EST wrote:He would have had at least another try if two passes hadn't been fired about a foot over his head.

The shocking passes were from Glasgow players.

Just saying
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by SecretFly on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 6:34 pm

Those Glasgow lads... all peacocks, the lot of them... Run

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by Brendan on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 10:29 pm

I think this will be the most open running game of the weekend. Think both teams will focus on running in trys and doing offloads all over the place.
Think England Ireland and Wales France will be more shadow boxing and trying to physically trying to outdo the other

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by George Carlin on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 6:40 am

carpet baboon wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Namely, just how nicely Karen Gillen is growing up.

And the award for pervy old man comment of 2018 so far goes to..... laughing

Challenge accepted

You're welcome, all posters over 40 years old. 

Jim - feel free to explain this one to Bru, GLove and the foetuses in the posting roster.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 7:53 am

SecretFly wrote:Those Glasgow lads... all peacocks, the lot of them... Run


Steady on there Mr Fly ! Braveheart

Good luck Saturday btw
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by SecretFly on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 1:56 pm

OK
Thanks Century man. Hug

Same to you but of course I'm wasting the luck bit. You won't need it if you play anything like you can. Could be a big score for you guys if you manage to spook the Italians early.

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by IanBru on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 3:04 pm

I just got a twitter reminder that it was ten years since 'the Cipriani game' vomit when he apparently looked remotely like a serviceable fly-half for thirty minutes against Ireland.

Unfortunately, that's the same day I was with my family at the Stadio Flaminio watching Scotland lose by a last minute Marcato drop-goal. The atmosphere was absolutely amazing, and the stadium was really raw (only two cubicles in the ladies' toilets apparently, with just the one door), but was so intimate, you felt like you were sat right on the pitch.

My main takeaway from that game is that for all of Scotland's passionate, firey victories against England (just like in 2008), it all means nothing if we underperform against Italy. If we lose, regardless of the England and France wins, this season will still feel a bit underwhelming.

In short, I'm bricking it.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 5:18 pm

Well i have just given the Warrior Nation over in Roma the really good news re DTH.   They are starting celebrations early i.e now.    We should do it on Saturday Young Master Bru.   Even if it is to get it right u....... that  smarmy gnob Inverdale's feckin erse. BTW he -Invertosser - will be glued to the TV watching the Grand Slam 'decider' (his words prior to the Calcutta Cup) between Engerlundland and plucky little Ireland, who will see Jones' outburst pinned to the door on their way out. Blaaaah -hahaha. Very Happy
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by jimbopip on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 5:40 pm


Toonie's interview on the BBC site pretty much paraphrases Bru's post: except that he lacks Bru's insight and poetry. Also Toonie isn't terrified of the Hagia Sophia. Mind you he hasn't met her.

We should also bear in mind that Italy played a lot more, and better, rugby in Cardiff than we managed. picard

I think we will win, but there'll be a few a few worrisome moments I'm sure.


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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RossAnderson on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:15 pm

Turned pre match itv off after watching for about 2 mins. English presenters talking about the english team while in the stadium 15 mins before the scotland game kicks off. Is it any wonder some take the abe aproach?

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:16 pm

Best of luck today Scottish fans, hope you put on a decent score.

Will this be the last Sergio Parisse international game or will the drag him on to the RWC...
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:28 pm

eirebilly wrote:Best of luck today Scottish fans, hope you put on a decent score.

Will this be the last Sergio Parisse international game or will the drag him on to the RWC...

I think its starting to get beyond the point where Italy are benefitting from Parisse's experience now, and he's starting to stop them developing his replacement in the 8 shirt. Maybe they should start bringing him on from the bench towards the end of the match for a bit of leadership and experience, and start looking to bring someone else through as their main man at 8. In truth Parisse looks like he's struggling to get his body to do what his brain wants it to, which is sad to see.

Watch him now score a hat trick in the first half hour....

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:31 pm

I think in recent years Parisse has been very selfish and has actually stunted quite a few Italian attacks.

Hope ye have a good day there Lama (best name on this site Very Happy)
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:32 pm

The pitch looks like it has been narrowed

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:34 pm

eirebilly wrote:I think in recent years Parisse has been very selfish and has actually stunted quite a few Italian attacks.

Hope ye have a good day there Lama (best name on this site Very Happy)

Very Happy cheers Billy! Wish I was out in Rome, always a wonderful place to be on a 6N weekend and all the best to any of our 606v2 contingent who are out there this weekend, go easy on the beers the lot of you Wink

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:35 pm

Oh dear, that was not a good scrum for Scotland.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:35 pm

Italy have started really well - that scrum was a worry

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:38 pm

What the hell are we doing - headless chicken stuff at that lineout.

Lucky it was called back!

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:40 pm

And that is what Scotland can do.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:41 pm

That's more like it - much better continuity

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:41 pm

Hamish showing Begamasco how to do it at scrum half Yahoo

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:43 pm

Swinson smashed in contact there

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:43 pm

Brown is having a very good start to the game.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:45 pm

No yellow card for the seatbelt tackle then hmmm, where is the consistency?
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:45 pm

Oh dear, Allen just walked through the Scottish defence.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:45 pm

Not sure you should be blitzing in your own 22 - that's what happens when you do!

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:45 pm

Nice play Tommaso. Poor organisation in defence there from Jones though

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:47 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Hamish showing Begamasco how to do it at scrum half Yahoo

What an awful pass, I hope they rip into him later about it. Very Happy
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:49 pm

Russell picard

We need to get our heads screwed on asap or Italy will get a real head of steam

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by tigertattie on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:51 pm

Anyone know why swinson is on the pitch? He's knocked back when he carries, he misses tackles and he was flapping around doing nothing at the lineout leading up to the Italian try.

Get Ritchie on
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:52 pm

Scotland, that is very very poor, so flat and inviting.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:52 pm

If we don't switch on and start upping our physicality we're going to be in real trouble here. Let them keep having this much possession and we could be out of this

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:55 pm

This is brilliant to see, go Italia.
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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 12:56 pm

What the hell has happened to our lineout the last few games

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Re: 6N Italy v Scotland 17th March 2018

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