New golf rules coming soon...

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New golf rules coming soon...

Post by I'm never wrong on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 10:35 am

Saw an article in my paper this morning, so I thought I would go to the source. CLICK HERE

Changes to :-
Dropping procedure
Taking relief
Double hit
Ball lost/OOB
Ball moved
Putting Green
Red/Yellow staked areas
Bunker rules
Player integrity
Pace of play.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by beninho on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 1:50 pm

Thats interesting, makes you realise that some of the current rules are pretty nonsense.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 2:23 pm

Well, they'd only stood the test of time for hundreds of years and most people haven't bothered to think through why they exist.
I'm ambivalent, although I don't like the rationale viz. stupid people for the alternative to stroke/distance for OoB or the fact it, apparently, says one can drop on the nearest bit of fairway (WTF?). I can also see arguments over where a ball crossed OoB.
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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by I'm never wrong on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 5:11 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:I'm ambivalent, although I don't like the rationale viz. stupid people for the alternative to stroke/distance for OoB or the fact it, apparently, says one can drop on the nearest bit of fairway (WTF?). I can also see arguments over where a ball crossed OoB.

I can see that as well Navy. Is it to speed up the pace of play? A person could "get away" with only dropping 2 shots, whereas if they had to return to previous spot, they could make a mess of it again (and again, ad infinitum)

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by super_realist on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 5:31 pm

beninho wrote:Thats interesting, makes you realise that most of the current rules are pretty nonsense.

Fixed for you

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by Davie on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 8:15 pm

I like most of the new rules - even the OOB one though I agree why didn't they hit a provisional. But not sure "where" it went OOB is any different to the "where did it cross the water hazard" problem

The one I'm really not keen on is the lost ball rule. If a ball is lost in the cabbage then a) how do you know where to drop (the fact the ball is lost means no one knows where it is) - and b) If it's lost then it is by definition invisible. How many people will drop it into the same sort of invisible lie the original must be in

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by super_realist on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 9:07 pm

I think that's why you have to agree it with your partners.

People not watching their ball though is one of the biggest annoyances in golf.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by pedro on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 11:05 pm

The new OOB rules is to speed up pace of play at club hacker level. It also makes it simpler to play and understand the game.

The current OOB drop rules are artificial and not logical imo. OOB is only set to define the playing area, for practical reasons, but is in reality comparable to a water hazard. So why not harmonise drop rules? Being able to drop in the fairway under a 2 shot penalty sounds harsh enough for me.

Hitting provisional doesn’t speed up pace of play and sometimes you only realise being OOB after having actually found the ball - forcing you to go back to the tee and hit another one. Also, high hcp golfers, especially playing at different courses, or not very often, don’t always pay attention to where the OOB is - and rules have to accomodate all levels of players.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 9:06 am

pedro wrote:The new OOB rules is to speed up pace of play at club hacker level. It also makes it simpler to play and understand the game.
The speed thing I get somewhat, although it's a specious argument really as pace of play wasn't an issue years ago - it's the way current players choose to play that's the issue re. pace. Re. understanding the game, it's easy to understand as it is, if people actually bother to read the Rules. Most don't. I have no sympathy. They've worked fine for centuries.

pedro wrote:The current OOB drop rules are artificial and not logical imo. OOB is only set to define the playing area, for practical reasons, but is in reality comparable to a water hazard. So why not harmonise drop rules? Being able to drop in the fairway under a 2 shot penalty sounds harsh enough for me.
Harmonisation makes some sense.

pedro wrote:Hitting provisional doesn’t speed up pace of play and sometimes you only realise being OOB after having actually found the ball - forcing you to go back to the tee and hit another one. Also, high hcp golfers, especially playing at different courses, or not very often, don’t always pay attention to where the OOB is - and rules have to accomodate all levels of players.
This is enough to make a Saint swear. If you hit it near a hazard/OoB - hit a provisional. It's not hard, but I guess I'm forgetting the generation we now have to deal with.
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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by pedro on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 9:16 am

Hi navy, I get you. But one of the reasons for adjusting the rules of golf is modernisation. The governing bodies want to make golf more accessible for the younger generations (and casual golfers) who don't bother to read rules or adhere to archaic and anachronistic ways of doing things.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by Roller_Coaster on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 10:11 am

I'm never wrong wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm ambivalent, although I don't like the rationale viz. stupid people for the alternative to stroke/distance for OoB or the fact it, apparently, says one can drop on the nearest bit of fairway (WTF?). I can also see arguments over where a ball crossed OoB.

I can see that as well Navy. Is it to speed up the pace of play? A person could "get away" with only dropping 2 shots, whereas if they had to return to previous spot, they could make a mess of it again (and again, ad infinitum)

That's just about the only bit I have any kind of issue with INW, added to the fact that the drop is now on the fairway, but it does make sense from a pace of play perspective as like it or not people don't play provisional when we think they should.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by Roller_Coaster on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 10:32 am

Navy - it's evolution which isn't new in the game. The rules haven't been the same for centuries, the OOB rule itself has changed back and forth https://www.golfdigest.com/story/hating-golfs-out-of-bounds-rule-has-a-long-history from which I think the interesting paragraph is

Stroke and distance was part of golf's original list of rules, in 1744, but during subsequent decades and centuries it was repeatedly modified, dropped, resurrected, and modified again. Sometimes you counted only the bad stroke and the do-over; sometimes you added a penalty but got a drop. The most severe version was adopted by the Royal & Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews in 1842: three strokes and distance, meaning that if you hit a ball out of bounds your next stroke, played from the spot where you struck your first, counted as your fifth. That lasted until 1846.

I think the newest iteration makes it less penal and so players that might have walked in may continue and it is likely to reduce NR (I certainly have NR'd more than once because a ball I thought was in or thought I'd easily find has not been where I expected). I'm not sure about the drop on the fairway as I can see that you may not be playing the course "properly" or exactly "as intended" but as I mentioned I can see the sense behind it so I'm happy to give it a go and see if it works.


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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 11:37 am

Yeah, true. It's not changing much I guess.
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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by JAS on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:28 pm

Roller_Coaster wrote:
I'm never wrong wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:I'm ambivalent, although I don't like the rationale viz. stupid people for the alternative to stroke/distance for OoB or the fact it, apparently, says one can drop on the nearest bit of fairway (WTF?). I can also see arguments over where a ball crossed OoB.

I can see that as well Navy. Is it to speed up the pace of play? A person could "get away" with only dropping 2 shots, whereas if they had to return to previous spot, they could make a mess of it again (and again, ad infinitum)

That's just about the only bit I have any kind of issue with INW, added to the fact that the drop is now on the fairway, but it does make sense from a pace of play perspective as like it or not people don't play provisional when we think they should.

So when it gets sprayed oob is the drop for 2 or for 3? Speaking of dropping on fairways, to my mind the biggest omission from the changes is still not being able to drop out of a divot on the fairway. You get a drop from an animal scraping in the rough ffs.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by Roller_Coaster on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:35 pm

I read it as next shot is playing 4 (so effectively the same as playing your provisional, had you hit one to that spot on the fairway).

The thing I read (I think the golf digest article) said they considered divots again but decided not to (the reason is in there but I can't remember it well enough to reproduce accurately!)

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by JAS on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 12:53 pm

Roller_Coaster wrote:I read it as next shot is playing 4 (so effectively the same as playing your provisional, had you hit one to that spot on the fairway).

The thing I read (I think the golf digest article) said they considered divots again but decided not to (the reason is in there but I can't remember it well enough to reproduce accurately!)

I’m guessing it would be the old “how old is an old divot”? Not that it really matters. When playing winter rules you get to place your ball after cleaning it. Apart of cleaning the ball does a golfer really gain any advantage (unless the ball was in a divot before cleaning)

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 1:21 pm

JAS wrote:
Roller_Coaster wrote:I read it as next shot is playing 4 (so effectively the same as playing your provisional, had you hit one to that spot on the fairway).

The thing I read (I think the golf digest article) said they considered divots again but decided not to (the reason is in there but I can't remember it well enough to reproduce accurately!)

I’m guessing it would be the old “how old is an old divot”? Not that it really matters. When playing winter rules you get to place your ball after cleaning it. Apart of cleaning the ball does a golfer really gain any advantage (unless the ball was in a divot before cleaning)
Yes, they get to pick a nice lie to put it back on. The divot issue is obvious - as it stands, it can't be proven one's in a divot, therefore no free relief. Just hit the damned thing from the divot - it's not actually that hard.
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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by puligny on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 1:26 pm

The OB rule is for casual play? Don’t people do this anyway? Who walks back to the tee in a casual game!!!!

I’m all for change, but much of this looks to be fiddling while Rome burns!

Tapping spike marks - I can see some being out there all day! OB why not just same as hazard, with the proviso you cannot play it from the garden it now sits in!

Why not a guaranteed lie if you hit fairway?

Dropping from knee height! Give me strength! I mean that really is going to attract new players!

Anyway in Portugal - overcast but warm!

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by LadyPutt on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 3:27 pm

It’s all very well saying players should play a provisional if they think the ball might be OOB or lost, but in my experience of standing behind groups of men, most think it impossible that they could ever have hit it OOB or somewhere they might lose it and consider it beneath them to hit a provisional, hence the hold-ups in play when they have to go back to the tee or wherever they might have last played from!
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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by super_realist on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 6:33 pm

I always take the chance of a provisional, even if there's a reasonable doubt it could be OB, that way you can get the bad shot out of your system.

Getting a drop from a divot on the fairway should be a rule, as should being able to repair or tap down a spike mark.

When is there ever a doubt it's a divot? If that's in doubt, then so must a pitchmark, but you can repair them.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by George1507 on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 9:02 pm

The divot thing has always been about whether it's just a poor lie, or it used to be a divot.

I know plenty of players who will be asking for 10 drops a round from a fairway divot.

The one that puzzles me is that there's no longer going to be a penalty for hitting your own bag.

Why wouldn't I lay my bag right behind the hole when I've got a downhill 20 footer?

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by pedro on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 11:57 pm

The bag thing must be adressed somewhere george.

Another good rule could be no lifting of balls already played from the green (already lifted once) ie. second or third putts. (Unless it interferes with your playing partners putting line.) Too much unneccessary lifting, cleaning and replacing imo.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by super_realist on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 7:52 am

I'd like to see them address practice swings. People spend far too much time doing this.
Personally, I don't take any, but no more than one would be a compromise.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 9:15 am

super_realist wrote:I always take the chance of a provisional, even if there's a reasonable doubt it could be OB, that way you can get the bad shot out of your system.

Getting a drop from a divot on the fairway should be a rule, as should being able to repair or tap down a spike mark.

When is there ever a doubt it's a divot? If that's in doubt, then so must a pitchmark, but you can repair them.
Amazing. Must admit, thought you'd understand this. There's no debate about a pitchmark - nothing else makes an indentation in the green of that shape.
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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by George1507 on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 9:25 am

pedro wrote:The bag thing must be adressed somewhere george.

Another good rule could be no lifting of balls already played from the green (already lifted once) ie. second or third putts. (Unless it interferes with your playing partners putting line.) Too much unnecessary lifting, cleaning and replacing imo.

The wording hasn't been published yet so there may be some caveat about where you can put your bag down.

No lifting balls for second or third putts - that's back to the continuous putting rule of the 1960s - about 1968 I think. It results in people trading on other's lines, or balancing on tiptoes etc. It was abandoned then because it took more time than alternating to the furthest away.

As an aside - I six putted yesterday - at Dunstanburgh Castle. I haven't played since Nov after a leg op, but the 30mph winds, fast and slopey greens were too much for me. The long game was great, but my putting was shocking. I hit a lovely 4 iron to the back of a green with the pin at the front. Degreened the first downhill downwind putt, then 10 feet past from just off the front of the green. Thought I could see the line with the third, but it just missed and went off the front again. Four was a terrible shaky twitch which was lucky to make it on the green, and then five lipped out - six was a lucky twitch which just caught the edge and went round the hole before dropping. Two ladies on the sandhill were cheering wildly.

It's a great course though, well worth a trip if you are in the area and your course is closed or muddy. Good condition, proper tees and greens, no mud and very little casual water.

Green fee - £19. You can't beat it.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by super_realist on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 6:41 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:I always take the chance of a provisional, even if there's a reasonable doubt it could be OB, that way you can get the bad shot out of your system.

Getting a drop from a divot on the fairway should be a rule, as should being able to repair or tap down a spike mark.

When is there ever a doubt it's a divot? If that's in doubt, then so must a pitchmark, but you can repair them.
Amazing. Must admit, thought you'd understand this. There's no debate about a pitchmark - nothing else makes an indentation in the green of that shape.

and nothing else looks like a divot. So why the difference between the two?

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 9:04 am

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:I always take the chance of a provisional, even if there's a reasonable doubt it could be OB, that way you can get the bad shot out of your system.

Getting a drop from a divot on the fairway should be a rule, as should being able to repair or tap down a spike mark.

When is there ever a doubt it's a divot? If that's in doubt, then so must a pitchmark, but you can repair them.
Amazing. Must admit, thought you'd understand this. There's no debate about a pitchmark - nothing else makes an indentation in the green of that shape.

and nothing else looks like a divot. So why the difference between the two?
I'd agree re. a very fresh divot - the sort of thing I land in a few hours after some prat didn't replace theirs earlier in the day. A divot that's a two or three weeks old? Where the divot turf itself has blown away or a crow's removed it? Sorry, you can't be certain at that sort of age that it was man-made. If it's not clear for all divots, there's no relief from any of them. Simples.
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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by Roller_Coaster on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 2:10 pm

I tend to agree on divots being relief free purely on identification purposes. Christ, mine vary from looking like a toothpick (pointing anywhere but the target!) to "Jesus, what manner of machine carved that from the sub-soil".

No doubt it is very annoying being in one (funny how it always seems to be after the best drive of your day), but I can see that relief from divots would generate all sorts of relief claims, discussions, arguments etc. Just hit it out and whinge to anyone that'll listen for the rest of the day!

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by super_realist on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 6:00 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:I always take the chance of a provisional, even if there's a reasonable doubt it could be OB, that way you can get the bad shot out of your system.

Getting a drop from a divot on the fairway should be a rule, as should being able to repair or tap down a spike mark.

When is there ever a doubt it's a divot? If that's in doubt, then so must a pitchmark, but you can repair them.
Amazing. Must admit, thought you'd understand this. There's no debate about a pitchmark - nothing else makes an indentation in the green of that shape.

and nothing else looks like a divot. So why the difference between the two?
I'd agree re. a very fresh divot - the sort of thing I land in a few hours after some prat didn't replace theirs earlier in the day. A divot that's a two or three weeks old? Where the divot turf itself has blown away or a crow's removed it? Sorry, you can't be certain at that sort of age that it was man-made. If it's not clear for all divots, there's no relief from any of them. Simples.

You seriously have a problem identifying a divot? What else would it be? Who cares if a crow has removed it? It's still a divot. Who said it had to be new?
A divot is a divot, and I don't even care if it's man made or from a badger playing golf at night. It's still a divot. You get relief from roads, tracks made by vehicles, staked tree, sprinkler head, tee marker, immovable objects, burrowing animal hole etc, what harm is there in adding a divot to it? Wouldn't slow the game down.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by puligny on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 6:14 pm

I would simply say if you hit the cut and prepared you entitled to a good lie - lift and place at golfers discretion

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by super_realist on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 6:53 pm

I think that's fair enough. There's preferred lies in winter, If the fairway is not grass and you lie in some sort of impediment, then why be punished for hitting the fairway?

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by George1507 on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 9:41 am

Conversely, if you hit into the rough, and find it lying well, should you have to drop it until you get a bad lie?

It's just part of the game.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by super_realist on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 9:45 am

It happens seldom enough, that's true, but it is annoying. I hit 3 it into 3 hackers divots (axe wound type of divots) from 3 consecutive drives in an Open once.

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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by navyblueshorts on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 10:02 pm

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:I always take the chance of a provisional, even if there's a reasonable doubt it could be OB, that way you can get the bad shot out of your system.

Getting a drop from a divot on the fairway should be a rule, as should being able to repair or tap down a spike mark.

When is there ever a doubt it's a divot? If that's in doubt, then so must a pitchmark, but you can repair them.
Amazing. Must admit, thought you'd understand this. There's no debate about a pitchmark - nothing else makes an indentation in the green of that shape.

and nothing else looks like a divot. So why the difference between the two?
I'd agree re. a very fresh divot - the sort of thing I land in a few hours after some prat didn't replace theirs earlier in the day. A divot that's a two or three weeks old? Where the divot turf itself has blown away or a crow's removed it? Sorry, you can't be certain at that sort of age that it was man-made. If it's not clear for all divots, there's no relief from any of them. Simples.

You seriously have a problem identifying a divot? What else would it be? Who cares if a crow has removed it? It's still a divot. Who said it had to be new?
A divot is a divot, and I don't even care if it's man made or from a badger playing golf at night. It's still a divot. You get relief from roads, tracks made by vehicles, staked tree, sprinkler head, tee marker, immovable objects,  burrowing animal hole etc, what harm is there in adding a divot to it? Wouldn't slow the game down.
picard Never mind. You clearly don't get it.
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Re: New golf rules coming soon...

Post by super_realist on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 7:48 am

I do get it, but I'm never in doubt when a divot is a divot.

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