Joe Schmidt

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Joe Schmidt

Post by alive555 on Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

best coach in world rugby

Discuss!
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Pot Hale on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:32 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Gatland’s win record with Ireland was 47% from 1998-2001. He beat Wales, Argentina (although lost to them in Lens), and France in 2000 and 2001, and finished joint top with England in the 6N ( lost on PD) and nearly won against New Zealand in November losing 29-40.

Eddie O’Sullivan’s record was 64% with Ireland getting to 3rd in rankings in 2003 and 2006.

Declan Kidney won a Grand Slam and a Six Nations.  Was WR coach of year in 2009 and then it all went south. Finished W28 L23 D3 - 52%.

Joe Schmidt has three Six Nations inc a Grand Slam, beat New Zealand 40-29, SA away for first time, and a new team consecutive win record of 12.  Since his start on 9 Nov 2013 he’s coached 55 W40 L14 D1 with a 73% success to date with win records of:
New Zealand 33% 1/3
Wales 43% 3.5/7
England 50% 3/6
SA 60% 3/5
Australia 67% 2/3
Argentina 75% 3/4
France 83% 5/6
Scotland 83% 5/6

Since beginning of 2016/17 season, Ireland have played 20 test matches.

Ireland P20 W17 L3 - 85%
N Zealand P18 W14 L3 D1 - 80.6%
England P19 W15 L4 -79%
Scotland P19 W12 L7 - 63%
Wales P20 W12 L8 - 60%

He’s doing okay so far I think.  Australia tour will be a real mettle tester.  SA tour got away from him, needs to win this one 2-1.

Interesting data, or datter, as they call it here. You should post a source. BTW it's a very impressive record for Schmidt. I can't recall Ireland getting thrashed under him either, and like you say there's the little matter of a win in SA and one against those ABs... Ireland have also clearly stopped struggling against France.

I also think it's much more difficult to coach a team like Wales, than it is Ireland or England which should be taken into account.

Post a source to what - results of matches? Loads of places to get those, Mikey. Then I just used brain or calculator to work out the rest. Not sure what you mean by your reference to coaching Wales or England. The topic is about Joe Schmidt. What needs to be taken into account?
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by The Oracle on Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:41 am

You seem to take offence very easily, Pot. He's just praised Ireland/Schmidt 3 times in one post. That's unheard of for Mikey!
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Pot Hale on Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:34 am

The Oracle wrote:You seem to take offence very easily, Pot.  He's just praised Ireland/Schmidt 3 times in one post.  That's unheard of for Mikey!

I wasn’t taking offense at all. Just puzzled by the left field reference to Wales.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by SecretFly on Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:42 am

I still don't get that Wales thing.  
He said something about amateur set-up?  

He'd need to explain in more detail why he feels it's tougher to coach Wales than Ireland or England.  For a start, Ireland and England have two very different systems anyway.  So those two on their own could argue that one is more difficult than the other....and probably on and off we do.

So what makes Wales tougher than both?  For a start potential Welsh Internationals, most of them, are virtually a hop, skip or a jump away from each other in the South of the country.  So communication between International coaches and those players is easy.  Easy to keep track of them, easy to keep an eye on their Regional performances up close etc.
Even North - currently out of country at Northampton - is just about the same distance from Cardiff as Munster players are from Dublin.
So logistically for a start, the four Regions of Wales are in a nice neat area that can keep the International ship a tighter unit.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by The Oracle on Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:50 pm

Maybe he means:
The whole 'goldfish bowl' thing in Wales v Ireland (national obsession vs less so in Ireland?).
The (perhaps unrealistic) expectations put on Wales to be world beaters by the public and media?
Maybe that Ireland has better players than Wales so it's tougher to coach Wales as they're not as good?!
Maybe he means the club v country conflict that seems to be largely avoided in Ireland as they're pulling in the same direction, but more problematic in Wales?
Maybe he means the strength of the assistant coaches in Wales vs Ireland where they might be stronger?!

It's all guesswork so could do with some clarification from Mikey! But that's my tuppence worth as a starter.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Brendan on Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:27 pm

Best thing Joe has done is told the players is something like this

"You are one of the best teams in the world deal with it. When we go to play we know we will win if we play well. Stop having to have a reason to win and just do it"

He has brought the professional attitude that the SH has had for years which made a big difference.

I think it is down to him that we were favourites every game we played and the players did look burdened by it. That is a big change and why we might get past the 1/4 of a WC

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by SecretFly on Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:44 pm

OK

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by rodders on Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:51 pm

"Win the moment in front of your face"

Joe Schmidt.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by SecretFly on Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:02 pm

Yep...he's getting into his War General speech making too.  

I thought his quote pre the English game was a wonderful one - and a brave one:  "History doesn't protect you from the Future."

But seriously.  I've noticed a very big change in Schmidt's character in recent months.  

I think in the past he was almost aloof, calculating and clinical.  Now he's more aggressive and emotional and quite sharp tongued and challenging - that quote.  

I also liked his emotions cracking for the very first time as he spoke about his delight at seeing Rory get a big prize after the GS.  He was really close to breaking there, was Joe.  I loved it - he now has a serious emotional involvement with these players.  He wills them to win rather than simply wanting to formulate an aloof scientific plan that might allow them to win.

So in a sense, the players and team are becoming more Kiwi in nature and he is becoming more emotionally Irish.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:38 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Interesting data, or datter, as they call it here. You should post a source. BTW it's a very impressive record for Schmidt. I can't recall Ireland getting thrashed under him either, and like you say there's the little matter of a win in SA and one against those ABs... Ireland have also clearly stopped struggling against France.

I also think it's much more difficult to coach a team like Wales, than it is Ireland or England which should be taken into account.

Post a source to what - results of matches?  Loads of places to get those, Mikey.  Then I just used brain or calculator to work out the rest.    Not sure what you mean by your reference to coaching Wales or England. The topic is about Joe Schmidt.  What needs to be taken into account?[/quote]


I just assumed there was a direct source for the information, if you collated it all yourself then I admire your patience.

I mentioned the coaching thing as I've previously mentioned Gatland here and a few of you got really angry. Ireland's teams are just in a better set-up (Provinces, A team.... then the AIL) that provides more players capable of playing at the highest level, compared to Wales. I would point to results as evidence of that and the province's history in the premier European competition. So I guess my point was that Schmidt has an easier job on his hands compared to Gatland. For years Gatland had to spend just a couple weeks conditioning the players for international duty as at least 3 of the regions couldn't do it. If you look at our teams now some of them are still a really poor excuse for a pro set-up, with two of them unable to attract a decent coach. Ireland's catchment area is also bigger. The fact that ours is small, right next to one another and all based in the south is a bit of a disadvantage IMO. I didn't really want to turn into a Gatland Vs Schmidt debate but I guess it's heading that way.

Also the Oracle has pretty much summed up what I mean by our amateur set-up!

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Pot Hale on Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:46 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
I didn't really want to turn into a Gatland Vs Schmidt debate but I guess it's heading that way.

Nope it's not heading that way. Rest assured, I've no interest in discussing Gatland at all, except in the context of his time as an Ireland coach comparatively with Schmidt.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:51 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
I didn't really want to turn into a Gatland Vs Schmidt debate but I guess it's heading that way.

Nope it's not heading that way.  Rest assured, I've no interest in discussing Gatland at all, except in the context of his time as an Ireland coach comparatively with Schmidt.  

Two totally different era's right? I remember hearing tale of Gatland helping to bring Ireland into the professional era, which in-turn laid the foundation for Ireland becoming a more successful team over the next few years. Then Gatland got back-stabbed Wink.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Pot Hale on Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:01 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
I didn't really want to turn into a Gatland Vs Schmidt debate but I guess it's heading that way.

Nope it's not heading that way.  Rest assured, I've no interest in discussing Gatland at all, except in the context of his time as an Ireland coach comparatively with Schmidt.  

Two totally different era's right? I remember hearing tale of Gatland helping to bring Ireland into the professional era, which in-turn laid the foundation for Ireland becoming a more successful team over the next few years.

Yes - two totally different eras - correct. My original post was comparing the records of Irish coaches since their dire days of the nineties compared to now. Nothing to do with Wales, or their set-up or anything else. Or anything to do with Gatland's history or bust-up with O'Sullivan. That topic has been done to death. I did summarise his record with Ireland in shifting them from finishing dead last to joint top with England.

This topic is about Joe Schmidt's record. Let's stick with that.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by SecretFly on Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:03 pm

No need Mikey....  no need for a Gatland v Schmidt debate.  Let's just say they're both pretty good coaches and that I, at least, concur with some of the details you put onto the Wales coaching difficulties.

But I'll remind you, the Irish only outlined their positives when told everything they do is negative over on yonder 'Celtic' league threads Wink  
We've been arguing the benefits of our system for years on these pages and now the Welsh are finally agreeing to an extent that they have to find ways of coaxing their better players to stay or to not leave in the first place....and WRU including itself directly in attempting a solution. One facet being given attention at least.  
And England too - even they in many of their articles now are wondering if an Irish way of central contracts for central players would protect players from the ravages of heedless club demands better.
But in ways England have a much easier time than we both have (unending numbers) - and in a sense, with its rich, serious history and community rugby clubs, Wales have had their advantages over us.  What is natural to you (rugby) is only spreading into our GAA strongholds now and still isn't remotely a real challenge yet for attracting many or most town/village young athletes.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by SecretFly on Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:21 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
I didn't really want to turn into a Gatland Vs Schmidt debate but I guess it's heading that way.

Nope it's not heading that way.  Rest assured, I've no interest in discussing Gatland at all, except in the context of his time as an Ireland coach comparatively with Schmidt.  

Two totally different era's right? I remember hearing tale of Gatland helping to bring Ireland into the professional era, which in-turn laid the foundation for Ireland becoming a more successful team over the next few years. Then Gatland got back-stabbed Wink.

Run

AHA!  So you admit that he does hold it against us all these years! Wink  He even told the Welsh lads all about it (his side of the story) and that's why they got to 'Hate' us for a few weeks during one of the 6N.  Laugh

Gatland didn't like being sacked.  Unfortunately that was the only thing we could do as he also didn't like having an assistant that was as ambitious as he was, so he closed down the effectiveness of our backs to kill off the aspirations of our backs coach.
Had he just used them more, we'd have all become best friends again and who knows, he might still be in situ as king of Irish rugby.  You can't have your team suffering because of a dark personal vendetta within the coaching set-up.  One of them had to go.  Wales should thank the IRFU for it is they who handed Gats to them.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:26 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
I didn't really want to turn into a Gatland Vs Schmidt debate but I guess it's heading that way.

Nope it's not heading that way.  Rest assured, I've no interest in discussing Gatland at all, except in the context of his time as an Ireland coach comparatively with Schmidt.  

Two totally different era's right? I remember hearing tale of Gatland helping to bring Ireland into the professional era, which in-turn laid the foundation for Ireland becoming a more successful team over the next few years.  

Yes - two totally different eras - correct.   My original post was comparing the records of Irish coaches since their dire days of the nineties compared to now.  Nothing to do with Wales, or their set-up or anything else.  Or anything to do with Gatland's history or bust-up with O'Sullivan.   That topic has been done to death.  I did summarise his record with Ireland in shifting them from finishing dead last to joint top with England.  

This topic is about Joe Schmidt's record.   Let's stick with that.

It's a great record. All of Ireland's provincial teams are in a strong position and have strength in depth, even Connacht are somewhat a force. Ireland coping well with the loss of Furlong and Henshaw is impressive, and you're also particularly strong in the back-row. Schmidt can also be credited with creating this Ireland team and getting them to this level, as opposed to just walking into a team (EJ with England). World's best? Possibly.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:31 pm

SecretFly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
I didn't really want to turn into a Gatland Vs Schmidt debate but I guess it's heading that way.

Nope it's not heading that way.  Rest assured, I've no interest in discussing Gatland at all, except in the context of his time as an Ireland coach comparatively with Schmidt.  

Two totally different era's right? I remember hearing tale of Gatland helping to bring Ireland into the professional era, which in-turn laid the foundation for Ireland becoming a more successful team over the next few years. Then Gatland got back-stabbed Wink.

Run

AHA!  So you admit that he does hold it against us all these years! Wink  He even told the Welsh lads all about it (his side of the story) and that's why they got to 'Hate' us for a few weeks during one of the 6N.  Laugh

Gatland didn't like being sacked.  Unfortunately that was the only thing we could do as he also didn't like having an assistant that was as ambitious as he was, so he closed down the effectiveness of our backs to kill off the aspirations of our backs coach.
Had he just used them more, we'd have all become best friends again and who knows, he might still be in situ as king of Irish rugby.  You can't have your team suffering because of a dark personal vendetta within the coaching set-up.  One of them had to go.  Wales should thank the IRFU for it is they who handed Gats to them.

For a few weeks? I thought it was for a few years....

I tend to agree that perhaps Gatland doesn't like to have ambitious people work with him, maybe he feels less in control? But it has to be the reason for him keeping on guys like Howley and McBryde... FYI Wasps had Gatland before us and they had a wonderful few years with the great man, from chumps to champs!

I've always agreed that Ireland have a set-up (the one you refer to) that works very well for them and that other nations like Wales should try to mirror it. I can only recall a minority disagreeing and they tend to be the ones that think Cardiff is the centre of the universe.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by The Oracle on Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:44 pm

Cmon Mikey. You’re still talking about Gatland. They’d prefer you didn’t.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Pot Hale on Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:52 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yep...he's getting into his War General speech making too.  

I thought his quote pre the English game was a wonderful one - and a brave one:  "History doesn't protect you from the Future."

But seriously.  I've noticed a very big change in Schmidt's character in recent months.  

I think in the past he was almost aloof, calculating and clinical.  Now he's more aggressive and emotional and quite sharp tongued and challenging - that quote.  

I also liked his emotions cracking for the very first time as he spoke about his delight at seeing Rory get a big prize after the GS.  He was really close to breaking there, was Joe.  I loved it - he now has a serious emotional involvement with these players.  He wills them to win rather than simply wanting to formulate an aloof scientific plan that might allow them to win.

So in a sense, the players and team are becoming more Kiwi in nature and he is becoming more emotionally Irish.

I agree with this Fly - wholeheartedly. A certain tetchiness has crept into Schmidt's demeanour and his dealings with particular people, including journalists/media organisations. A certain sense of "there's my way or the highway". And he's probably in a good position to be dictating those kind of terms right now. Although I'm sure he recognises that he's leaving a few fellas lying in the long grass waiting for his current soar to turn and drop.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Brendan on Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:48 pm

If Joe does become NZ coach (say no Joe they want to win every game but we just want 19 out of 20) he would be the third in a row who managed in an NH international team but he would be different because he would have skipped Super Rugby.

I think if Joe gets another win against NZ and a WC final he is odds on to get it if he wants it. He is the best coach we've had due to his results but also his system which forces players to out do their rival or get overtaken and lose the shirt. Remember the days when the team sheet didn't need to be announced because we all knew who it would be.

Sometimes I think he is like Gladiator were he looks at the crowd and says "aren't you entertained"
It must be frustrating that we say he is doing good but if he could just improve X or Y

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by carpet baboon on Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:52 pm

If he beats NZ again and makes it to a world cup final, any job he wants would be his.
He could walk into the RFU demand a ridiculous amount of money and demand they central contract 35 players of his choosing and I reckon they would still still give him the job

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:49 am

Brendan wrote:If Joe does become NZ coach (say no Joe they want to win every game but we just want 19 out of 20) he would be the third in a row who managed in an NH international team but he would be different because he would have skipped Super Rugby.

I think if Joe gets another win against NZ and a WC final he is odds on to get it if he wants it.  He is the best coach we've had due to his results but also his system which forces players to out do their rival or get overtaken and lose the shirt. Remember the days when the team sheet didn't need to be announced because we all knew who it would be.

Sometimes I think he is like Gladiator were he looks at the crowd and says "aren't you entertained"
It must be frustrating that we say he is doing good but if he could just improve X or Y


He did several years here in Auckland with the Blues.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:54 am

Schmidt is a far superior coach to Henry and Hansen. Their results in the NH were weak enough.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:19 am

Joe Schmidt didn’t do very awesome at the last RWC, pretty underwhelming. He’s won a couple of second-rate 6Ns but they aren’t worth much to any nation outside the 6Ns to be fair. He’s a drab kinda guy coaching a drab kinda team imo. As the man himself says, his greatest achievement was winning the Ranfurly Shield for Bay of Plenty. I’ll admit that was good work.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by geoff999rugby on Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:41 am

That would be a 6N where the top 4 sides are 2,3,5,7 - 17 total
As opposed to the SH version where the 4 sides 1,4,6,10 - 21 total

Seeing a low score is a good thing that suggest the SH championship is the weaker of the tournaments
New Zealand may still be the best but the days of the SH as whole being stronger than the NH have long gone

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:45 am

The days of 6N teams being coached by Europeans and not chock full of SH born and raised players is also probably long gone. Sadly so. The abomination that was the 6N efforts in the last RWC only served to ramp up the panic and efforts to replace players and coaches with those from the SH.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Sin é on Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:06 am

ebop wrote:The days of 6N teams being coached by Europeans and not chock full of SH born and raised players is also probably long gone. Sadly so. The abomination that was the 6N efforts in the last RWC only served to ramp up the panic and efforts to replace players and coaches with those from the SH.

Its just a cycle. The first captain of the All Blacks was born in Ireland. Doug Howlett has 4 Irish kids and 1 Kiwi born one. In 15-20 years time you might see his kids going back to NZ to try and play for the All Blacks.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by profitius on Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:24 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Schmidt is a far superior coach to Henry and Hansen. Their results in the NH were weak enough.


They were more focused in putting in good foundations. Hansen's record with Wales wasn't good but the season after he left they won the grand slam playing great running rugby.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by SecretFly on Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:36 am

I knew I shouldn't be taking little brief looks.  Couldn't resist.  Back for a tiny cameo

Drab???

ebop, drab?

As in relation to Mr Big Coat Hansen?  Schmidt talks more animated, enthusiastic rugby detail in 30 seconds of quick fire high detail than gloomy shoulders-hunched-hands-in-pockittses Hansen has done in his whole tenure as All Blacks coach Laugh

Interviewer: "Can you outline for us the strategic shift at half time that saw a completely different All Blacks side turn up after half time and destroy the opposition like that."
Hansen: *yawn* *shrug*  "Yeah, well we're a pretty good team aren't we?  We played some good footie there, didn't we.  This interview is over now, isn't it. *gaze into mid distance and away from interviewer to prove to interviewer how small they are in the world of hands-in-pockittses top grade coaching."

Drab as in relation to Warren Gatland?

Inerviewer: "Can you outline for us the strategic shift at half time that saw a completely different Welsh side turn up after half time and destroy the opposition like that."
Gatland: *glower* * threatening smile of death*  "You didn't expect it, did you?  We did alright, didn't we.  I knew we'd win that game as early as last year.  We'll be there or thereabouts in the WC.  *glower* * mafia smile of death* *hooded hint to end the interview quickly or interviewer is going to get a microphone up one's posterior.*

Exactly which Kiwi coach has a more *ahem* engaging personality than Joe, ebop? Cool

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Yoda on Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:02 pm

Alot of time for gats, always will for his time at wasps. Schmidt is more like likely to be the next all blacks coach in my view as he is tactically better. It will be very interesting when green meets black. Ireland aren't water tight enough at the moment to keep the kiwis in check but are coming on leaps and bounds. Good times for Ireland, be prepared for the kiwis (ebop et al) to rubbish everything it's a very good sign that take you seriously. If they don't bother if they don't think your team is a threat, could get tasty on Rugby forums!

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by carpet baboon on Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:57 pm

I think ebop is a little worried. First time in a while NZ title as number 1 is being challenged

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:58 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Schmidt is a far superior coach to Henry and Hansen. Their results in the NH were weak enough.

Hansen and Henry have won World Cups in both Hemispheres, Does that count?

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by majesticimperialman on Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:28 pm

(quote="carpet baboon"]I think ebop is a little worried. First time in a while NZ title as number 1 is being challenged[/quote]


By "WHO" IRELAND? i don't think so. not yet any way. Lets wait and see what the summer tour bring up shell we?

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by geoff999rugby on Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:51 pm

ebop wrote:The days of 6N teams being coached by Europeans and not chock full of SH born and raised players is also probably long gone. Sadly so. The abomination that was the 6N efforts in the last RWC only served to ramp up the panic and efforts to replace players and coaches with those from the SH.

Wrong again, lets take the Grand Slam champions

Only 3 player born outside Ireland, of the 23 against England
One Jordi Murphy born of Irish parents in Spain and went to Blackrock College
Of the other 2, one Aki, would not make the 23 if all players fit.
That leaves Stander, one of 23, and even with him we have a player biting at his ankles for the no8 position - Conan

Ireland could have won the Grand Slam with no SH born player anywhere near the team

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Pot Hale on Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:12 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Schmidt is a far superior coach to Henry and Hansen. Their results in the NH were weak enough.

Give me a break. They’ve both won numerous Rugby Championships, and World Cups. Their results (and Gatland’s) with a Six Nations team that has the worst record bar Italy against SANZAR teams is hardly damning evidence.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Pot Hale on Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:50 am

ebop wrote:The days of 6N teams being coached by Europeans and not chock full of SH born and raised players is also probably long gone. Sadly so. The abomination that was the 6N efforts in the last RWC only served to ramp up the panic and efforts to replace players and coaches with those from the SH.

Hmm...

Scotland replaced NZ-born Vern Cotter with Scotish-born Gregor Townsend, and Italy appointed Irish-born Conor O’Shea so that three of the Six Nations coaches post RWC are now European.

Ireland RWC 2015 squad had
Richard Strauss - bench hooker replaced by current Niall Scannell
Nathan White - bench TH retired and replaced by Andrew Porter, John Ryan
Jared Payne starting 13 replaced by Ringrose, Farrell
Isaac Boss bench scrum-half replaced by Luke McGrath, Kieran Marmion

In Six Nations starting squad for 2018
Stander, starting 8 replaced now-retired-through-injury Heaslip
Aki - in the mix but behind starting first-choice midfield of Henshaw and Ringrose.
Roux - bench lock used twice in 6N but is behind Toner, Henderson, Ryan, Dillane, Beirne


Italy RWC Squad had
Luke McClean an Australian with Italian parents starting FB replaced by Minozzi
Quintin Geldenhuys bench lock replaced by Federico Ruzza

6N Squad had
Dean Budd starting lock moved to Italy in 2012 and was included in the 6N squad this season.
Sébastien Negri, Zimbabwean-born starting flanker, moved to England at age 18 and played for amateur Hartpury RFC before moving to Benneton.
Braam Steyn sometime bench flanker moved to Mogliano in Italy in 2012
Jayden Hayward - bench utility back arrived in 2017.


Both teams not exactly chock full of SH starting players who’ve arrived post RWC 2015 out of 65 odd 6N players in those two squads.



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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:27 am

profitius wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Schmidt is a far superior coach to Henry and Hansen. Their results in the NH were weak enough.


They were more focused in putting in good foundations. Hansen's record with Wales wasn't good but the season after he left they won the grand slam playing great running rugby.

Wales had a losing streak under Hansen. He couldn't even build on the foundations laid by Henry, although Mike Ruddock was able to a year later. Henry was better than Hansen and Schmidt.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:29 am

SecretFly wrote:I knew I shouldn't be taking little brief looks.  Couldn't resist.  Back for a tiny cameo

Drab???

ebop, drab?

As in relation to Mr Big Coat Hansen?  Schmidt talks more animated, enthusiastic rugby detail in 30 seconds of quick fire high detail than gloomy shoulders-hunched-hands-in-pockittses Hansen has done in his whole tenure as All Blacks coach Laugh

Interviewer: "Can you outline for us the strategic shift at half time that saw a completely different All Blacks side turn up after half time and destroy the opposition like that."
Hansen: *yawn* *shrug*  "Yeah, well we're a pretty good team aren't we?  We played some good footie there, didn't we.  This interview is over now, isn't it. *gaze into mid distance and away from interviewer to prove to interviewer how small they are in the world of hands-in-pockittses top grade coaching."

Drab as in relation to Warren Gatland?

Inerviewer: "Can you outline for us the strategic shift at half time that saw a completely different Welsh side turn up after half time and destroy the opposition like that."
Gatland: *glower* * threatening smile of death*  "You didn't expect it, did you?  We did alright, didn't we.  I knew we'd win that game as early as last year.  We'll be there or thereabouts in the WC.  *glower* * mafia smile of death* *hooded hint to end the interview quickly or interviewer is going to get a microphone up one's posterior.*

Exactly which Kiwi coach has a more *ahem* engaging personality than Joe, ebop? Cool

Pretty good. It's too bad Schmidt is a bit of a damp squib in interviews Smile.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:15 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
profitius wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Schmidt is a far superior coach to Henry and Hansen. Their results in the NH were weak enough.


They were more focused in putting in good foundations. Hansen's record with Wales wasn't good but the season after he left they won the grand slam playing great running rugby.

Wales had a losing streak under Hansen. He couldn't even build on the foundations laid by Henry, although Mike Ruddock was able to a year later. Henry was better than Hansen and Schmidt.

Are yo sure? Ireland beat Wales 54–10 when Henry was coach.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:56 am

I'd personally say that ireland have better players than wales did back then. Something to consider.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:45 am

Eddie Jones is a better coach than Joe Schmidt. It goes Hansen, Jones, Gatland, Schmidt/Cheika.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:49 am

Why? What have each of those brought to teans; good and bad?

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:20 am

ebop wrote:Eddie Jones is a better coach than Joe Schmidt.  It goes Hansen, Jones, Gatland, Schmidt/Cheika.

I suspect you are in a minority in your own country given the amount of press coverage Schmidt is getting in NZ lately but its only opinion.

It looks like Jones piggy backed a lot of the good work that Lancaster did. Jones' England side is really just Lancaster's plus some tweaks. When it comes to now changing the direction of the side and bringing in players of the future Jones' true merit will really be tested. So far he gets a D- for 5th in the 6 nations. Not quite a fail as England are still competitive.

He reminds me a lot of Declan Kidney. Eddie O'Sullivan's Ireland was knocking at the door in the six nations for a few years but couldn't get over the line. Then in comes Kidney makes some tweaks to Eddie's team and wins a grand slam. When it came to evolving the side Kidney failed and Ireland too finished 5th in the six nations. Jones still has plenty of credit in the bank to allow him time to fix things but the jury is out.

I don't rate Hansen, Id say Matt O'Connor could win the world cup as coach with the All Blacks. Gatland is a good coach but he is also trying to change how Wales play at the moment with mixed results. He is up there with Schmidt alright.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:43 am

Where is Schmidt?

WR coach of the year

2012: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2013: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2014: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2015: Michael Cheika ( Australia)
2016: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2017: Eddie Jones ( England)
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:48 am

Jones gets a d minus for joint longest tier 1 winning rate and 2 6ns....right.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:52 am

Nup, those achievements along with his stints in Japan and SA help him reach the #2 spot. And runner up at RWC with the Wallabies. But he’s had a few changers along the way that detract from his overall standing.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:56 am

ebop wrote:Where is Schmidt?

WR coach of the year

2012: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2013: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2014: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2015: Michael Cheika ( Australia)
2016: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2017: Eddie Jones ( England)

Sure Declan Kidney won world coach of the year in 2009. It doesn't mean a awful lot as all the coaches you mention would probably win if they "coached" the ABs.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:06 am

Yes, you’re right, the ABs are a good team. Not sure Schmidt would be a very good ABs coach. Too controlling, ingrained in European rugby and is a coach that drags teams up. He should stay in Ireland.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by rodders on Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:16 am

ebop wrote:Where is Schmidt?

WR coach of the year

2012: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2013: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2014: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2015: Michael Cheika ( Australia)
2016: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2017: Eddie Jones ( England)
2018: Joe Schmidt ( Ireland)

Fixed it for you Wink
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:16 am

ebop wrote:Yes, you’re right, the ABs are a good team. Not sure Schmidt would be a very good ABs coach. Too controlling, ingrained in European rugby and is a coach that drags teams up. He should stay in Ireland.

He probably will stay in Ireland as he seems fairly rooted here. Hopefully he does.

The great thing about Schmidt is he is good at adapting. His teams tend to play quite differently depending on their strengths.

Clermont, Leinster and Ireland were all set out differently. Even in this years six nations Ireland changed their game plan slightly week on week. Against Scotland and Wales Ireland committed a lot of numbers to the breakdown, against England and France Ireland stood off the breakdown and instead committed more numbers to the defensive line.

He has this Ireland side playing very much their strengths, Conor Murray's box kicks for example are made for someone who spent his youth (Kearney) under high balls in gaelic football for example.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

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