Joe Schmidt

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Joe Schmidt

Post by alive555 on Sat 17 Mar 2018, 7:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

best coach in world rugby

Discuss!
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 10:20 am

rodders wrote:
ebop wrote:Where is Schmidt?

WR coach of the year

2012: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2013: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2014: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2015: Michael Cheika ( Australia)
2016: Steve Hansen ( New Zealand)
2017: Eddie Jones ( England)
2018: Joe Schmidt ( Ireland)

Fixed it for you Wink

Well if the award was based on last summer to date he certainly would be the best coach in the world as he is coaching the only unbeaten side in the world in the last 12 months. In the same period even the ABs have too losses and a draw.

I think if Ireland win a series in Australia he would probably scoup the award regardless of results in Nov.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Brendan on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 11:08 am

What our NZ people are saying is that contrary to popular opinion the NZ boys are not one of the best in their position and if it wasn't for the coach they would be average.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by eirebilly on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 11:46 am

I don't think that any coach can lay claim to being the best coach in the world as they all coach different teams at different levels. That said, if you were going to judge a coach on results then Schmidt would currently be the best international coach in the world.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 12:34 pm

And according to heaslip stuart lancaster is right up there with schmidt.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by eirebilly on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 12:59 pm

That's why I said that it is hard to judge who would be the best coach in the world 7&1/2.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 1:02 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And according to heaslip stuart lancaster is right up there with schmidt.

Yeah very under rated in England.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 1:44 pm

You'd really need to be in and around the camp. That coach of the year for me is a lot wider than coach as you're really looking at tactics selection the support staff results etc etc. I suspect unless it goes pear shaped as it's done for England in the last 3 games results wise schmidt will pick it up.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Sin é on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 2:06 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:Eddie Jones is a better coach than Joe Schmidt.  It goes Hansen, Jones, Gatland, Schmidt/Cheika.

I suspect you are in a minority in your own country given the amount of press coverage Schmidt is getting in NZ lately but its only opinion.

It looks like Jones piggy backed a lot of the good work that Lancaster did. Jones' England side is really just Lancaster's plus some tweaks. When it comes to now changing the direction of the side and bringing in players of the future Jones' true merit will really be tested. So far he gets a D- for 5th in the 6 nations. Not quite a fail as England are still competitive.

He reminds me a lot of Declan Kidney. Eddie O'Sullivan's Ireland was knocking at the door in the six nations for a few years but couldn't get over the line. Then in comes Kidney makes some tweaks to Eddie's team and wins a grand slam. When it came to evolving the side Kidney failed and Ireland too finished 5th in the six nations. Jones still has plenty of credit in the bank to allow him time to fix things but the jury is out.

I don't rate Hansen, Id say Matt O'Connor could win the world cup as coach with the All Blacks. Gatland is a good coach but he is also trying to change how Wales play at the moment with mixed results. He is up there with Schmidt alright.

You are forgetting that a) Kidney had coached practically all of 2009 players from youth (including winning an U19 World Cup with BOD and Paddy Wallace, so it was hardly Kidney just picking up on all the good work done by EOS. b) Kidney didn't have the support that Schmidt has now. For example, there was no David Nucifora to hunt around the southern hemisphere to find props. c) Kidney came in towards the end of a lot of careers and blooded the likes of Sexton, Murray, POM, SOB, Earls, Rob Kearney, Rory Best and without a fit Sexton, Ireland have found the going difficult. d) Kidney's big mistake was crossing BOD and the Leinsterfans. He was treated disgracefully by them.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Sin é on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 2:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And according to heaslip stuart lancaster is right up there with schmidt.

ROG had a bit to say about Lancaster in his column last week in examiner.

After the 2015 World Cup, the Racing 92 coaching ticket was invited to meet the ex-England head coach Stuart Lancaster in Paris, writes Ronan O’Gara.

Racing’s director of rugby, Arnaud Tourtoulou, had been a liaison officer for the English at the 2007 World Cup in France and had maintained contacts within the RFU hierarchy. Given the fact Lancaster had been essentially chased out of town after the 2015 World Cup on home soil, I was intrigued by the prospect of picking his brain and hearing of the experience.

On Grand Slam Saturday in Twickenham last weekend, the second most powerful feeling of emotion I felt was for Lancaster. Everywhere he’s looked since stepping down in 2015 he has seen Eddie Jones’ smiling, winning face. Each time Jones appeared on the big screen at Twickenham in recent years, it was met with a standing ovation. Lancaster was almost attending matches under the cover of disguise. But Lancaster never lost three Six Nations games in a row.

And after he was herded out the gate by the RFU, he went off to Leinster, reset his co-ordinates and proved to himself and everybody else once again what an excellent coach he is.

The meeting in Paris three years ago extended later in the evening to a lovely restaurant and meal with Laurent Labit, Laurent Travers, and myself.

Lancaster was humble and exposed, brutally honest and brilliantly insightful. You could feel his hurt. He presented his post-World Cup findings like he would to a committee, the challenges he had faced, the ones that had bettered him, the mistakes he’d made. In everything he said, I was pitching it ahead to 2019. We have remained in contact and the fascination remains with his vulnerability when faced with the wrath of a nation.

Stuart got absolutely slaughtered when England exited the last World Cup after defeat to Australia. He anticipated that. It’s a results business. Hence the intrigue this week with the fallout in England over a fifth-placed finish in the Six Nations championship.

In the unlikely event of reality and sanity being the basis for the post-mortems, maybe Stuart Lancaster, and his vilification might be used as a reference point.

Here in New Zealand, sympathy for Eddie is in short supply. The joy is palpable that Ireland won the Grand Slam, and the name of Joe Schmidt is everywhere.

That Ireland and New Zealand could not meet until the final of the 2019 World Cup has been mentioned too. Which, frankly, borders on lunacy. Ireland go to Australia for three summer tests, England travel to South Africa. The dynamic of both squads will tell a lot more about the thinking ahead of the World Cup than any gossip or pool permutations.

Will Jones bring the likes of Hartley, Robshaw, Cole et al in June or will he begin the handover to a younger, fresher crew? The greatest damage done to England last Saturday at Twickenham was not the loss of the Championship, but the confirmation that mentally and physically, England aren’t in the same space as Ireland. The psychological damage of that 24-15 loss travelled further down that road than anyone could imagine. Eddie Jones’ players got absolutely hockeyed. Owen Farrell didn’t score a point.

Ireland’s summer tour to Australia will be hugely interesting. If there’s more improvement in that Ireland squad, it’s incredibly exciting, but with Joe Schmidt, you have to think Ireland are already operating at 80%-plus. He squeezes so much out of them, that even in a Grand Slam decider when Johnny Sexton only puts four points on the board, the attack is so multi-faceted that the prospect of victory is not compromised.

Many believe there is loads more to come from Ireland. I wouldn’t be too sure. As a player, you want to be going on that tour to Australia.

Being left at home and out of a Joe squad could wreck your head. He might go with Conor Murray and Sexton as a pair in one of the three tests, but he has got to give them the other two off for the sake of Joey Carbery and Kieran Marmion.

In terms of growing Ireland’s assault on the 2019 World Cup, the month Down Under is massively important.

Between now and then, there will be twists and injuries. It may prove a timely comeback tour for Keith Earls and the like, others could be after a successful Champions Cup campaign. Schmidt has created such a culture of success around Irish rugby that the expectation of victory from the national team down is manifest. If the James Ryans and Jordan Larmours are full of confidence, how could they be any other way? The Leinster lock has never lost a professional rugby game. Think of that.

I DIDN’T believe there was any prospect a first defeat would come last Saturday either, given the opening from the visitors. In fact, from a rugby perspective, the most surprising thing was that in a Grand Slam game, there was never a moment’s doubt that Ireland would win. You could stick a fork in it once Stockdale went over for the try on half-time. Hat-tip too, forgotten by many, to Joey Carbery for his key cameo in that move, and the subsequent conversion. He is proving to be a very interesting option.

Had Ireland gone in at the break — as many teams would have been happy to — 14-5 in front, it leaves a whiff of something for England to hang onto. Score first after half-time and it puts a spanner in Irish heads. But such a dominant Irish first half deserved to climax with brilliance from Murray, Carbery, and Stockdale.

There were, again, vignettes of Schmidt’s video work sprinkled all over the performance — the second try in all its surprising glory — but there’s a reason too you select a Shaun Payne or, in this current context, a Rob Kearney — a full-back whom you just need to be safe.

Compare Kearney to Anthony Watson and what both achieved under a high ball last Saturday. It’s just a ballbreaker for the forwards when your full-back is dropping a high ball close to the line for a wrapped present to the opposition.

Rob Kearney is at an age now where he knows and listens to his own body. He can manage injury and come back better each time. His attack game against England was the best I’ve ever seen from him.

He was a big winner at Twickenham. But even with him, or Stockdale, Ryan, Furlong, Leavy or Stander (kudos for not getting caught for a double movement for that splendid try), Conor Murray remained the Irish player operating on a level higher than anyone else in the Championship. He was my player of the tournament.

Dan Leavy has proved an exceptional seven and it proved a significant tournament too for Rory Best in terms of his longevity. That Keith Earls limped out of the climax with a medial ligament issue is an unkind cut for Munster, who are already preparing for the visit of Toulon minus Farrell, Cloete, and now Bleyendaal.

Of small consolation will be Toulon’s own woes — beaten by Mike Prendergast’s Oyonnax, three of their management were invited for a chat with the club’s hierarchy. In that, there was only going to be one winner.

The Munster and Leinster squads have another important intangible on their side next week — the bounce that returning Grand Slammers will bring to the squads in Champions Cup week. Compare that to the Saracens mindset coming to Dublin to face a Leinster side crammed full of Six Nations winners — and the possibility that Sean O’Brien might be there to welcome them too.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/ronan-ogara/ronan-o39gara-many-believe-theres-loads-more-to-come-from-ireland-i-wouldnt-be-too-sure-468656.html
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 4:21 pm

Sin é wrote:

You are forgetting that a) Kidney had coached practically all of 2009 players from youth (including winning an U19 World Cup with BOD and Paddy Wallace, so it was hardly Kidney just picking up on all the good work done by EOS. b) Kidney didn't have the support that Schmidt has now. For example, there was no David Nucifora to hunt around the southern hemisphere to find props. c) Kidney came in towards the end of a lot of careers and blooded the likes of Sexton, Murray, POM, SOB, Earls, Rob Kearney, Rory Best and without a fit Sexton, Ireland have found the going difficult. d) Kidney's big mistake was crossing BOD and the Leinsterfans. He was treated disgracefully by them.

That last piece really made me laugh. Thanks Sin.

Kidneys biggest mistake was being quite a limited coach. His methods/success relied heavily on motivating players and stirring up emotions (the Munster model) and not enough on putting the right structures and systems in place to ensure long lasting consistent success. He was a good short term solution but that's about it.

It think that the 3 six nations wins and consistent success since Kidney's departure vindicates the general sense at the time that Kidney needed to be replaced by someone better.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Sin é on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:19 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Sin é wrote:

You are forgetting that a) Kidney had coached practically all of 2009 players from youth (including winning an U19 World Cup with BOD and Paddy Wallace, so it was hardly Kidney just picking up on all the good work done by EOS. b) Kidney didn't have the support that Schmidt has now. For example, there was no David Nucifora to hunt around the southern hemisphere to find props. c) Kidney came in towards the end of a lot of careers and blooded the likes of Sexton, Murray, POM, SOB, Earls, Rob Kearney, Rory Best and without a fit Sexton, Ireland have found the going difficult. d) Kidney's big mistake was crossing BOD and the Leinsterfans. He was treated disgracefully by them.

That last piece really made me laugh. Thanks Sin.

Kidneys biggest mistake was being quite a limited coach. His methods/success relied heavily on motivating players and stirring up emotions (the Munster model) and not enough on putting the right structures and systems in place to ensure long lasting consistent success. He was a good short term solution but that's about it.

It think that the 3 six nations wins and consistent success since Kidney's departure vindicates the general sense at the time that Kidney needed to be replaced by someone better.

So remind me again, who thought up the Kidney clock.

Disgraceful carryon. BOD was a petulent pup who had no success until Kidney took him in hand. Similarly for the rest of the Leinster underachievers when you think of the resources they had.

As I've pointed out, Kidney did all the heavy lifting with Sexton, jackson, Healy etc. (remember the 6 scrum penalties he gave away v. Italy?). It took Schmidt 5 years to do what Kidney did in his first season.

The Leinster dominated IRFU had the knives out for Kidney and thats why they didn't renew his contract. If a Kidney coached team performed as poorly as Ireland did in the last world cup, he would be gone.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:26 pm

How do you know who brought up the Kidney clock?

Your posts are really funny Sin.

Kidney wasn't good enough and deserved to be replaced, it was a no brainer. We finished 5th in the six nations and lost to Italy in his last year. He wasn't international class.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Sin é on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:54 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:How do you know who brought up the Kidney clock?

Process of elimination. a) Only Leinsterfans would be classless enough to come up with that. b) How the Leinster fans used to love it.

Your posts are really funny Sin.

Kidney wasn't good enough and deserved to be replaced, it was a no brainer. We finished 5th in the six nations and lost to Italy in his last year. He wasn't international class.

An U19 World Cup, a couple of league titles, 2 Heineken Cup and a Grand Slam, Churchill Cup, World Coach of the Year 2009! Very Happy
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 7:57 pm

Sin é wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:How do you know who brought up the Kidney clock?

Process of elimination. a) Only Leinsterfans would be classless enough to come up with that. b) How the Leinster fans used to love it.

Your posts are really funny Sin.

Kidney wasn't good enough and deserved to be replaced, it was a no brainer. We finished 5th in the six nations and lost to Italy in his last year. He wasn't international class.

An U19 World Cup, a couple of league titles, 2 Heineken Cup and a Grand Slam, Churchill Cup, World Coach of the Year 2009! Very Happy

'Process of elimination' is a fairly paper thin evidence for throwing around comments as fact. I mean you have just made some "classless" comments now yourself based on a hunch.

Some of those accolades are impressive but with Munster and Ireland he inherited two of the strongest sides in the history of those teams that had been knocking on the door of success for a long time. He owes a lot of his success to those before him.

A bit like a jar that gets passed around because it cant be opened Kidney stepped up when the jar had been loosened by everyone else and opened the lid and therefore gets the credit.

The acid test for Kidney's success as Ireland coach was whether he would be able to manage the transition from the golden generation team of 2009 to the evolution of a new team of his own and push on from that success. He emphatically failed in that respect as it all went fairly quickly down hill from then.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 11:28 pm

I am sure when we win a series away to OZ, beat the ABs again ( this time while they aren’t still sightseeing ) and win the WC will your postings be recognised for brilliance Guns. (Or maybe it’s just too much angel dust)

It’s a pity really the vitriol that goes on regarding kidney from some Leinster fans. Maybe it’s because Munster were the first team to beat the ABs, Munster won the HC before Leinster, a Munster coach won the GS first ( with mostly a Munster team. It’s probably because kidney is such a gentle man that they are so thick to go on about it. The worst being the blame he got after getting them six wins for the first time in the HC and then their so called stars choked against Leicester. Or maybe the sh1t he had to take over leaving when it wa because of one of his parents passing. Didn’t stop the probs putting the boot in.

Those who matter know what kidney has done for Irish rugby those who don’t, well they don’t matter.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Brendan on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 11:38 am

As a Munster man I think Kidney was great but his time was up. I am not surprised he had success but the game changed and he wasn't able to adapt as well as others. Maybe a bit like Jones and the breakdown.

Different coach's have different teams that suit them and I think the no frills passion of Munster suited his style. We will see how he goes with LI

The biggest thing Joe has done is change the mental approach which kidney did a little which got Ireland and Munster over the line but not to the extent Joe has were favourite tag doesn't crush as as Wales game 2011

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by rodders on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 11:44 am

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:I am sure when we win a series away to OZ, beat the ABs again ( this time while they aren’t still sightseeing ) and win the WC will your postings be recognised for brilliance Guns. (Or maybe it’s just too much angel dust)

You're selling the team short, you forgot to mention picking up the IRB No1 spot and win a second GS.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by eirebilly on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 12:42 pm

Brendan wrote:As a Munster man I think Kidney was great but his time was up.  I am not surprised he had success but the game changed and he wasn't able to adapt as well as others.  Maybe a bit like Jones and the breakdown.

Different coach's have different teams that suit them and I think the no frills passion of Munster suited his style.  We will see how he goes with LI

The biggest thing Joe has done is change the mental approach which kidney did a little which got Ireland and Munster over the line but not to the extent Joe has were favourite tag doesn't crush as as Wales game 2011

This.

Kidney was an excellent coach for Munster and Ireland at the time, people often forget that due to the poor results towards the end of his tenure. The poor results at the end of his tenure is something that happens to most coaches in the game. This should not be seen as Kidney being a poor coach.

If, as some on her say, that Schmidt has such an influence on the new Irish players then Kidney must also receive the same accolade for his influence on players such as Sexton, Murray, Kearney, etc...
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 1:25 pm

Schmidt would need to win three in a row Grand Slams, win a series in NZ and win at least two RWCs before he could be considered to be a good coach, never mind a great one.

Let’s wait and see. He’s on a journey.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by the-goon on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 3:11 pm

After 2009 every year under kidney got progressively worse. The only saving graces were the odd big performances. This is why kidney isn't rated outside Munster. And there is no bitterness because Munster were the blueprint to 2009, that is pure projection on your part.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 9:43 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Schmidt would need to win three in a row Grand Slams, win a series in NZ and win at least two RWCs before he could be considered to be a good coach, never mind a great one.  

Let’s wait and see.  He’s on a journey.  
Schmidt is a good coach, just not the best. Ireland have yo-yo’d up and down over his tenure. He’s done some good things. That’s why he’s a good coach. Now his team is #2 let’s see how long it lasts because the thing with being at the top is that ‘everyone’ wants to get you and you need to evolve. Can Ireland evolve under Schmidt from here?
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 9:21 am

ebop wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Schmidt would need to win three in a row Grand Slams, win a series in NZ and win at least two RWCs before he could be considered to be a good coach, never mind a great one.  

Let’s wait and see.  He’s on a journey.  
Schmidt is a good coach, just not the best. Ireland have yo-yo’d up and down over his tenure. He’s done some good things. That’s why he’s a good coach. Now his team is #2 let’s see how long it lasts because the thing with being at the top is that ‘everyone’ wants to get you and you need to evolve. Can Ireland evolve under Schmidt from here?

They haven't really yo-yo'd that much. 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st in the six nations under Schmidt is as consistent as you get without winning every year. Their November results have been quite consistent too.

Its true though you do need to evolve. I think Ireland so far have evolved reasonably well under Schmidt so hopefully it will continue.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Brendan on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 9:37 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Schmidt would need to win three in a row Grand Slams, win a series in NZ and win at least two RWCs before he could be considered to be a good coach, never mind a great one.  

Let’s wait and see.  He’s on a journey.  
Schmidt is a good coach, just not the best. Ireland have yo-yo’d up and down over his tenure. He’s done some good things. That’s why he’s a good coach. Now his team is #2 let’s see how long it lasts because the thing with being at the top is that ‘everyone’ wants to get you and you need to evolve. Can Ireland evolve under Schmidt from here?

They haven't really yo-yo'd that much. 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st in the six nations under Schmidt is as consistent as you get without winning every year. Their November results have been quite consistent too.

Its true though you do need to evolve. I think Ireland so far have evolved reasonably well under Schmidt so hopefully it will continue.

Have NZ evolved. Isn't the saying something like "we all know what NZ will do, They do the same every game, it's just stopping them is the problem or "NZ are the best because they are the best at doing the basics

They aren't really glowing statements about coaching but the super high standard verging on perfection that is expected of the players. They do the right thing at the right time to get the most from the situation. You can't say NZ are a team of set plays and working off the set piece. The more broken the play they better they do. Again not a glowing endorsement of a coach.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:10 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Schmidt would need to win three in a row Grand Slams, win a series in NZ and win at least two RWCs before he could be considered to be a good coach, never mind a great one.  

Let’s wait and see.  He’s on a journey.  
Schmidt is a good coach, just not the best. Ireland have yo-yo’d up and down over his tenure. He’s done some good things. That’s why he’s a good coach. Now his team is #2 let’s see how long it lasts because the thing with being at the top is that ‘everyone’ wants to get you and you need to evolve. Can Ireland evolve under Schmidt from here?

They haven't really yo-yo'd that much. 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st in the six nations under Schmidt is as consistent as you get without winning every year. Their November results have been quite consistent too.

Its true though you do need to evolve. I think Ireland so far have evolved reasonably well under Schmidt so hopefully it will continue.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:15 am

You're going to get some of that when the most of the better teams are playing each other every year tbf.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:19 am

Brendan wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Schmidt would need to win three in a row Grand Slams, win a series in NZ and win at least two RWCs before he could be considered to be a good coach, never mind a great one.  

Let’s wait and see.  He’s on a journey.  
Schmidt is a good coach, just not the best. Ireland have yo-yo’d up and down over his tenure. He’s done some good things. That’s why he’s a good coach. Now his team is #2 let’s see how long it lasts because the thing with being at the top is that ‘everyone’ wants to get you and you need to evolve. Can Ireland evolve under Schmidt from here?

They haven't really yo-yo'd that much. 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st in the six nations under Schmidt is as consistent as you get without winning every year. Their November results have been quite consistent too.

Its true though you do need to evolve. I think Ireland so far have evolved reasonably well under Schmidt so hopefully it will continue.

Have NZ evolved.  Isn't the saying something like "we all know what NZ will do, They do the same every game, it's just stopping them is the problem or "NZ are the best because they are the best at doing the basics

They aren't really glowing statements about coaching but the super high standard verging on perfection that is expected of the players.  They do the right thing at the right time to get the most from the situation.  You can't say NZ are a team of set plays and working off the set piece.  The more broken the play they better they do.  Again not a glowing endorsement of a coach.
So you think it’s a random thing? That NZ players just do their thing and win games. The ABs probably don’t even need a captain. Because our players just do the thing that they do.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:27 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're going to get some of that when the most of the better teams are playing each other every year tbf.
Focus on your smartphone tapping 7.5 because sometimes I read your posts and it seems like you’re down the pub mate, at 10am, lock in? Are you implying 6Ns teams are playing each other more and it’s a harder road? Is that what you’re saying? Is your job a cryptic crossword creator?
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:38 am

Yes when you've got more teams close to each and more than capable of consistently challenging you there will be more swing results. The nature of the 6ns of home and away fixtures also doesn't give that opportunity and immediate revenge. So yes you do have to consider that. Did you ever expand with any detail on why hansen is a great coach or is it purely looking at results.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:47 am

ebop wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You're going to get some of that when the most of the better teams are playing each other every year tbf.
Focus on your smartphone tapping 7.5 because sometimes I read your posts and it seems like you’re down the pub mate, at 10am, lock in? Are you implying 6Ns teams are playing each other more and it’s a harder road? Is that what you’re saying? Is your job a cryptic crossword creator?

Is it not obvious that the six nations is a tougher tournament at the moment to win than the rugby championship? SA, Argentina and Australia are all going through a big slump. Their win loss ratios have been very poor in the last couple of years.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:49 am

ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Schmidt would need to win three in a row Grand Slams, win a series in NZ and win at least two RWCs before he could be considered to be a good coach, never mind a great one.  

Let’s wait and see.  He’s on a journey.  
Schmidt is a good coach, just not the best. Ireland have yo-yo’d up and down over his tenure. He’s done some good things. That’s why he’s a good coach. Now his team is #2 let’s see how long it lasts because the thing with being at the top is that ‘everyone’ wants to get you and you need to evolve. Can Ireland evolve under Schmidt from here?

They haven't really yo-yo'd that much. 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st in the six nations under Schmidt is as consistent as you get without winning every year. Their November results have been quite consistent too.

Its true though you do need to evolve. I think Ireland so far have evolved reasonably well under Schmidt so hopefully it will continue.
YO-YO

Up.....and down.....and up....and...


Not the best indicator of consistency. You could retain the exact same win loss ratio and your ranking would go up and down as other teams fluctuate.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:51 am

Obviously Hansen is a great coach because he gets results. Some morons think the ABs coach themselves.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:52 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Schmidt would need to win three in a row Grand Slams, win a series in NZ and win at least two RWCs before he could be considered to be a good coach, never mind a great one.  

Let’s wait and see.  He’s on a journey.  
Schmidt is a good coach, just not the best. Ireland have yo-yo’d up and down over his tenure. He’s done some good things. That’s why he’s a good coach. Now his team is #2 let’s see how long it lasts because the thing with being at the top is that ‘everyone’ wants to get you and you need to evolve. Can Ireland evolve under Schmidt from here?

They haven't really yo-yo'd that much. 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st in the six nations under Schmidt is as consistent as you get without winning every year. Their November results have been quite consistent too.

Its true though you do need to evolve. I think Ireland so far have evolved reasonably well under Schmidt so hopefully it will continue.
YO-YO

Up.....and down.....and up....and...


Not the best indicator of consistency. You could retain the exact same win loss ratio and your ranking would go up and down as other teams fluctuate.
From 2 to 8?

Put some spin on that guns
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 10:55 am

So you can't really expand as to how he's going about his coaching which makes him better? Is it primarily selection. Changing the way players go about certain tasks patterns of attack etc. Attention to detail in prep. Fitness planning. What does he do differently than schmidt whoch places him so much higher in your view? Results are an indicator but far from the only measure and indeed if they were as suggested above from his wales days would suggest he's not great.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:03 am

Winning%

He holds the ‘WHOLE’ thing together

eg, Lost in Chicago, turned up in Dublin

Eddie lost 3 on the bounce and that was only in the 6Ns

When has Hansen lost 2 in a row?


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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:05 am

So he was a poor to average coach. Moved job and got loads better. Alex ferguson was a really.good coach at Aberdeen. Then wasn't at all at scotland. Then was ok at manu. Then got loads better. Mourinho has gone from being class to rubbish and then repeat. If you don't know the details of how he coaches how he differs to schmidt why comment?

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Brendan on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:07 am

ebop wrote:
Brendan wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Schmidt would need to win three in a row Grand Slams, win a series in NZ and win at least two RWCs before he could be considered to be a good coach, never mind a great one.  

Let’s wait and see.  He’s on a journey.  
Schmidt is a good coach, just not the best. Ireland have yo-yo’d up and down over his tenure. He’s done some good things. That’s why he’s a good coach. Now his team is #2 let’s see how long it lasts because the thing with being at the top is that ‘everyone’ wants to get you and you need to evolve. Can Ireland evolve under Schmidt from here?

They haven't really yo-yo'd that much. 1st, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 1st in the six nations under Schmidt is as consistent as you get without winning every year. Their November results have been quite consistent too.

Its true though you do need to evolve. I think Ireland so far have evolved reasonably well under Schmidt so hopefully it will continue.

Have NZ evolved.  Isn't the saying something like "we all know what NZ will do, They do the same every game, it's just stopping them is the problem or "NZ are the best because they are the best at doing the basics

They aren't really glowing statements about coaching but the super high standard verging on perfection that is expected of the players.  They do the right thing at the right time to get the most from the situation.  You can't say NZ are a team of set plays and working off the set piece.  The more broken the play they better they do.  Again not a glowing endorsement of a coach.
So you think it’s a random thing? That NZ players just do their thing and win games. The ABs probably don’t even need a captain. Because our players just do the thing that they do.

When people talk about Joe's teams they talk about him and the system, he patterns the planned moves. These are things the coach does. As I have stated already he has changed the mental fragility of the team. Is it fixed we don't know.

What are these wonderful things that Steve is known for or has made them better or created the them in his own image. For the best coach in the world it will be easy to do.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:12 am

ebop wrote:Winning%

He holds the ‘WHOLE’ thing together

eg, Lost in Chicago, turned up in Dublin

Eddie lost 3 on the bounce and that was only in the 6Ns

When has Hansen lost 2 in a row?

I doubt very much that Hansen would be able to get a better winning percentage with Ireland than Schmidt. My guess is that it would be significantly lower as indicated by his tenure in Wales.

One reason I don't rate him is he made such a big deal about an Irish reporter questioning his teams discipline after the last Dublin test. It was pretty obvious NZ had discipline issues but he failed to acknowledge them nor correct them. Hey presto fast forward to the Lions tour and NZ draw the series, partially down to poor discipline.


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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:15 am

You’re only saying that because you just won a grand slam

Let’s see how Joe goes when Murray gets injured. Maybe 3-4 key players out. Let’s see how Joe goes then. Mental strength. Hansen was part of a team that won a RWC with our 4th ranked first five that was unfit and drinking beer catching whitebait when he got the call up. Morons think the ABs just need to turn up and win games. Probably the same morons that thought England were the best team in the world, prior to the 6Ns of course.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:18 am

I still think england are the best team. I think we'll see that going from the AIs and into the 6ns. If people want to ask why that is I will do my best to answer them. Why won't you answer points on hansen coaching? I have no problem you thinking it but surely you can explain why you hold th view other than win %?

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:19 am

ebop wrote:You’re only saying that because you just won a grand slam

Let’s see how Joe goes when Murray gets injured. Maybe 3-4 key players out. Let’s see how Joe goes then. Mental strength. Hansen was part of a team that won a RWC with our 4th ranked first five that was unfit and drinking beer catching whitebait when he got the call up. Morons think the ABs just need to turn up and win games. Probably the same morons that thought England were the best team in the world, prior to the 6Ns of course.

Ireland beat England last year to stop their winning run without Murray.

Ireland beat Australia the November prior to last with half the team missing.

Ireland beat SA in SA without Sexton and Stander sent off.

Is that enough mental strength?

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:19 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:Winning%

He holds the ‘WHOLE’ thing together

eg, Lost in Chicago, turned up in Dublin

Eddie lost 3 on the bounce and that was only in the 6Ns

When has Hansen lost 2 in a row?

I doubt very much that Hansen would be able to get a better winning percentage with Ireland than Schmidt. My guess is that it would be significantly lower as indicated by his tenure in Wales.
Guns, what happened when Ireland fell to the 8th ranked team?

In 2016, under ‘Schmidt’s’ watch
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:20 am

Stop deflecting ebop. Just expand on what hansen brings specifically.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:22 am

Mainly down to losing two tests to SA in SA with a Ireland B side and losing to France by a point away and England away. France and SA had low rankings.

In the same year Ireland later went on to beat SA, NZ and Australia so the 8th ranking doesn't tell the whole story.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:22 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:You’re only saying that because you just won a grand slam

Let’s see how Joe goes when Murray gets injured. Maybe 3-4 key players out. Let’s see how Joe goes then. Mental strength. Hansen was part of a team that won a RWC with our 4th ranked first five that was unfit and drinking beer catching whitebait when he got the call up. Morons think the ABs just need to turn up and win games. Probably the same morons that thought England were the best team in the world, prior to the 6Ns of course.

Ireland beat England last year to stop their winning run without Murray.

Ireland beat Australia the November prior to last with half the team missing.

Ireland beat SA in SA without Sexton and Stander sent off.

Is that enough mental strength?
ABs beat up Ireland in Ireland in 2016 when they were on cloud 9

2016, that rings a bell, were you guys ranked 8th?
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:23 am

What changes has hansen made to his coaching from wales to nz?


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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by eirebilly on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:23 am

I have been one of Schmidt's biggest critics as I felt he really only had one game plan and could rarely adjust when a team countered this game plan.

During this 6N, I saw a much more evolved Ireland mixing the steady as she goes approach to the out and out attack. This is the sign of an excellently coached team that now have a very strong self belief.

The AB's are a team that can turn it on for 10-15 minutes and completely take games away from their opposition. Ireland is now almost at the same level where they can blow teams away in the same fashion.

I would not say that Hanson is better than Schmidt or the other way round if I may be honest.

To come out and say that Ireland have not evolved under Schmidt is just wrong as not only the results disprove this but the performances as well.
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:24 am

ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:You’re only saying that because you just won a grand slam

Let’s see how Joe goes when Murray gets injured. Maybe 3-4 key players out. Let’s see how Joe goes then. Mental strength. Hansen was part of a team that won a RWC with our 4th ranked first five that was unfit and drinking beer catching whitebait when he got the call up. Morons think the ABs just need to turn up and win games. Probably the same morons that thought England were the best team in the world, prior to the 6Ns of course.

Ireland beat England last year to stop their winning run without Murray.

Ireland beat Australia the November prior to last with half the team missing.

Ireland beat SA in SA without Sexton and Stander sent off.

Is that enough mental strength?
ABs beat up Ireland in Ireland in 2016 when they were on cloud 9

2016, that rings a bell, were you guys ranked 8th?

Ireland beat the ABs in 2016. Does that mean Hansen is a terrible coach to lose to the 8th ranked side in the world or are the rankings perhaps a little unrealiable?

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:24 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Stop deflecting ebop. Just expand on what hansen brings specifically.
Hansen brings a lot of joy to NZers thumbsup
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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:25 am

Even the ones who don't know what he does. Like yourself.

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Re: Joe Schmidt

Post by ebop on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 11:28 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:You’re only saying that because you just won a grand slam

Let’s see how Joe goes when Murray gets injured. Maybe 3-4 key players out. Let’s see how Joe goes then. Mental strength. Hansen was part of a team that won a RWC with our 4th ranked first five that was unfit and drinking beer catching whitebait when he got the call up. Morons think the ABs just need to turn up and win games. Probably the same morons that thought England were the best team in the world, prior to the 6Ns of course.

Ireland beat England last year to stop their winning run without Murray.

Ireland beat Australia the November prior to last with half the team missing.

Ireland beat SA in SA without Sexton and Stander sent off.

Is that enough mental strength?
ABs beat up Ireland in Ireland in 2016 when they were on cloud 9

2016, that rings a bell, were you guys ranked 8th?

Ireland beat the ABs in 2016. Does that mean Hansen is a terrible coach to lose to the 8th ranked side in the world or are the rankings perhaps a little unrealiable?
Hansen doesn’t lose 2 in a row

Wake up call in Chicago, beat up Ireland ‘IN’ Ireland, their hometown

Schmidt does lose 2 on the bounce, sometimes 3
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Re: Joe Schmidt

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