Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

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Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Artful_Dodger on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 9:45 pm

To cut a long story short, for Romania to qualify they needed Belgium to beat Spain.  The European Rugby Federation (headed by Romanian Octavian Morariu) appointed three Romanian officials to oversee the game between Belgium and Spain.

Belgium won and the end of the game saw ugly scenes with Spanish players attacking the referee (allegedly successfully).

See the below video and make up your own mind.  I think this absolutely stinks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3LwfEJU1ow&feature=youtu.be

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 10:45 pm

What a disgrace Romania should be thrown out of the RWC. A bunch of cheats and that Octavian clown should be jailed. World Rugby better act here.
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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 11:07 pm

World rugby have no cop on. Letting Barnes ref every Ireland v Wales game is bad enough. I think WR are quite naive when it comes to understanding bias and conflicts of interest. I think part of it is arrogance and part stupidity.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by SecretFly on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 11:23 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:World rugby have no cop on. Letting Barnes ref every Ireland v Wales game is bad enough. I think WR are quite naive when it comes to understanding bias and conflicts of interest. I think part of it is arrogance and part stupidity.

...and part of it is potentially that big decisions means big money for big corporations. In short, World Rugby has to be very sure footed that its relative growth now is controlled meticulously so that it doesn't develop into a FIFA Mark2 - where localised cabals in different parts of the world are given nod-nod-wink-wink allowances and special treatment so that votes for big decisions go to the people that want to have a bigger say in the future of the game.

Money is money and money is corrupting.


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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 11:26 pm

100%. I couldnt care less about world rugby growing the game because growing the game is just a psudonym for making more money which doesnt necessarly make for a better spectacle at all.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by catchweight on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 11:37 pm

Were World Rugby involved in this decision? Seems like it was not their decision to appoint the officials.

Its a tad nefarious to suggest that World Rugby's interest in the growth of the game is down to money. Actually, the individual rugby unions with a more self interest approach are all out for the money just the same.

An example being the World Rugby Commissioned report which recommended South Africa to host the World Cup being overruled by individual Unions for the most part following the French money.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Cyril on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 11:40 pm

Irish fan complaining about a result in irony shocker

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by SecretFly on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 11:55 pm

catchweight wrote:Were World Rugby involved in this decision? Seems like it was not their decision to appoint the officials.

Its a tad nefarious to suggest that World Rugby's interest in the growth of the game is down to money. Actually, the individual rugby unions with a more self interest approach are all out for the money just the same.

An example being the World Rugby Commissioned report which recommended South Africa to host the World Cup being overruled by individual Unions for the most part following the French money.

World Rugby SHOULD appoint officials, or at least have an admin overriding power when deciding officials. That was my very point. Take responsibility and make judgements and decisions accountable instead of 'allowing' alcoves across the world to control their own localised ideas of quality control in officialdom.

World Rugby shouldn't be able to say: "We had no involvement in appointing officials for this game." They should at least have the framework in place where people with complaints would go directly to them and say 'the buck stops with you guys' - it's your game, you hold the rule book.

As regards World Rugby and growth in the game being not down to money. It's all money. Growth is money. That's what professionalism is. Grow the product to increase the profit margins. Is that bad or good? Not my concern. That is remains uncorrupted, that's my concern


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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by SecretFly on Sun 18 Mar 2018, 11:57 pm

Cyril wrote:Irish fan complaining about a result in irony shocker

Are you in a bad mood Cyril?

You won the 6N last year. It's nice to share Cool

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Cyril on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 12:08 am

Irish fans are just getting on my wick a bit Fly. You know how they like to complain about the ref. Unless they win

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by SecretFly on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 12:12 am

Cyril wrote:Irish fans are just getting on my wick a bit Fly. You know how they like to complain about the ref. Unless they win

Aren't we all the same though? Don't I hear plenty of complaints about the ref for the Twickenham game? I do. I read the comments sections under sites like the Guardian.

So how are Irish complainers different to Welsh complainers (ever visit a Pro14 thread?) or English complainers over the years? And wait around, when Scotland win more often, their fans too will begin to get cocky and have a sense of entitlement and they'll start complaining about refs too.

It goes with the territory of being a passionate sports fan.... not the most edifying part of being a sports fan but an inevitable one.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Artful_Dodger on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 12:25 am

Cyril wrote:Irish fans are just getting on my wick a bit Fly. You know how they like to complain about the ref. Unless they win

It's getting on your wick that someone is calling out what looks like blatant match fixing? Hardly the same as disgruntled fans of any persuasion being upset with decisions. This looks to be something altogether more sinister.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Cyril on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 12:26 am

It’s no different. Irish fans seem to be very ungracious winners in general. Maybe not you, but generally all I seem to hear is that Saturday was a political win rather than a sporting one. I’ve even heard racist comments. Maybe some Irish fans are a little more brave since Zebo is out of the picture?

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 1:01 am

You do whinge a lot Cyril

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by yappysnap on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 1:15 am

Cyril wrote:It’s no different. Irish fans seem to be very ungracious winners in general. Maybe not you, but generally all I seem to hear is that Saturday was a political win rather than a sporting one. I’ve even heard racist comments. Maybe some Irish fans are a little more brave since Zebo is out of the picture?

You hear a lot of stuff Cyril. Maybe you should change what you listen to? Sounds a bit spammy to me.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 1:21 am

I wouldnt be surprised if Cyril was making it up. Seems a real spacer to me.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 2:34 am

Who cares about the nationality of someone complaining about that referee? Everyone should be concerned about what happened.

Rugby Europe had direct responsibility for that match, but I'd have thought World Rugby can investigate what happened.

Apparently, the full match was available to watch on the Rugby Europe website but it has now been taken down. Eggchasers podcast said the penalty count was something like 24 to 4. Not sure which is more absurd: that Spain gave away 24 penalties, or that Belgium only conceded four.

Ref was said to be playing advantage to Spain, when their player broke the line, and had a clear run in to score. Ref blew up to go back to their penalty.

If those circumstances are true, then there's a good case for ordering a replay.


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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 8:05 am

Artful_Dodger wrote:To cut a long story short, for Romania to qualify they needed Belgium to beat Spain. The European Rugby Federation (headed by Romanian Octavian Morariu) appointed three Romanian officials to oversee the game between Belgium and Spain.

This has been happening in the Pro14 for years, why does it change for you now ?

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 8:16 am

Replay the match

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 8:19 am

Ah, so it's only a problem when it suits you then ?

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 8:41 am

To be fair I think all referee appointments are made before the start of the tournament but they really should have looked at changing the ref here.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by robbo277 on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 9:03 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:To be fair I think all referee appointments are made before the start of the tournament but they really should have looked at changing the ref here.

After Spain beat Romania and therefore created a potential conflict of interest, they requested that the officials be changed on February 19th. The request was refused.

Considering a Six Nations official managed to get replaced within about 24 hours of a potential conflict of interest before the final weekend, it does seem inconsistent.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 9:36 am

Why would World Rugby conduct an investigation?

Proving bias or impropriety would be very difficult and without evidence they would be open to legal action if they intervene. They will want to sweep the whole thing under the carpet as quietly as possible.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 9:45 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Why would World Rugby conduct an investigation?

Proving bias or impropriety would be very difficult and without evidence they would be open to legal action if they intervene. They will want to sweep the whole thing under the carpet as quietly as possible.
A replay was ordered quite recently in a football World Cup qualifier:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41510230

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by whocares on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 9:52 am

Regardless of the referee being biaiser or corrupted, his performance during this 10mins highlight was so rubbish he deserves a to be banned for life. He didn’t even managed to prevent the game to become a 3rd division French game with players getting involved in fights at their first opportunity.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by quinsforever on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 2:47 pm

Romania is the most corrupt country in the EU, according to the EU.

i would be checking the bank accounts and cash situations of the 3 refs. organised crime is rife in Romania, and it shouldnt be that hard to find if there was money involved...

some of the decisions were fairly inconsistent. he did get a few right at the breakdown. but he only blew high tackles for one team. and that spanish back was clearly not held late in the match.

something definitely smells fishy.

Rugby Europe look like asses for not avoiding the situation

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by BamBam on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 2:52 pm

Rugby Europe's President being Romanian definitely makes this look worse than it already was

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by PenfroPete on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 2:56 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43458625

World Rugby having a look
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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Sin é on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:00 pm

Cyril wrote:It’s no different. Irish fans seem to be very ungracious winners in general. Maybe not you, but generally all I seem to hear is that Saturday was a political win rather than a sporting one. I’ve even heard racist comments. Maybe some Irish fans are a little more brave since Zebo is out of the picture?

Selective hearing Cyril.

Sad losing Zeebs, welcome Bundi.
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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Sin é on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:02 pm

BamBam wrote:Rugby Europe's President being Romanian definitely makes this look worse than it already was

I'd blame the French who have been running Rugby Europe as their own personal fifedom.
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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by quinsforever on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:05 pm

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/rugby-europe-communication-22

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:08 pm

World Rugby tweet:

Statement: While World Rugby does not appoint match officials for the Rugby Europe Championship, it is in contact with Rugby Europe to understand the context of events relating to the Belgium v Spain match in Brussels on Sunday, which doubled as an important RWC 2019 qualifier.

https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/975676565190307840

Brendan Gallagher looked at the regulations, and has concluded that World Rugby can order a replay

https://twitter.com/gallagherbren/status/975725090859110400

Doesn't make it more likely, mind you.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by whocares on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:19 pm

Sin é wrote:
BamBam wrote:Rugby Europe's President being Romanian definitely makes this look worse than it already was

I'd blame the French who have been running Rugby Europe as their own personal fifedom.

Sure. You can then blame the home unions for not allowing France in their private club before Smile

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by SecretFly on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:37 pm

Anyway.... it solves one thing.

More neutral refs from Romania in Pro14 is the way forward.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by whocares on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:40 pm

SecretFly wrote:Anyway.... it solves one thing.

More neutral refs from Romania in Pro14 is the way forward.

Is there already Romanian refs officiating in the Pro14?

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by SecretFly on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:42 pm

God, whocares we have enough trouble trying to keep the Irish ones legit!

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by BamBam on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:54 pm

I'm sure a certain group of fans would take that Romanian referee every day of the week if the alternative was an Irishman

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:59 pm

BamBam wrote:I'm sure a certain group of fans would take that Romanian referee every day of the week if the alternative was an Irishman

Wayne Barnes could ref every game and the Welsh sides would still underperform.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by BamBam on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 4:00 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
BamBam wrote:I'm sure a certain group of fans would take that Romanian referee every day of the week if the alternative was an Irishman

Wayne Barnes could ref every game and the Welsh sides would still underperform.

I was debating adding "and I'm sure there's a couple of fans who would take the Romanian referee over Wayne Barnes" !

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 4:02 pm

whocares wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Anyway.... it solves one thing.

More neutral refs from Romania in Pro14 is the way forward.

Is there already Romanian refs officiating in the Pro14?

Closest is probably Marius Mitrea I guess

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 4:04 pm

BamBam wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
BamBam wrote:I'm sure a certain group of fans would take that Romanian referee every day of the week if the alternative was an Irishman

Wayne Barnes could ref every game and the Welsh sides would still underperform.

I was debating adding "and I'm sure there's a couple of fans who would take the Romanian referee over Wayne Barnes" !

To be fair, John Lacey is merely incompetent. Whereas apparently Barnes is biased/corrupt (though for the life of me I cannot remember why it is deemed that he chooses to favour Wales and hate Ireland)

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by SecretFly on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 4:15 pm

Isn't it peculiar though - John Lacey is Ireland's go-to ref for taking sessions with the team to teach them how to be good, obedient and correct in all their facets of play.

Ireland then go on and kinda prick the ears of all opponent sides with their precision, their low penalty count, their interpretations that mostly coincide with the majority of refs (even Wayne - our new pal Wayne, was happy enough with what he saw from us this year)

...and yet, John Lacey is incompetent?

Maybe for 'incompetent', the word should instead be 'pedantic'? Maybe more teams should listen to his pedantic instructions and they might find their penalty numbers going down? No?

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 4:21 pm

Interesting from an amateur ref looking at this game :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clOx3DkheMk
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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 4:28 pm

SecretFly wrote:Isn't it peculiar though - John Lacey is Ireland's go-to ref for taking sessions with the team to teach them how to be good, obedient and correct in all their facets of play.

Ireland then go on and kinda prick the ears of all opponent sides with their precision, their low penalty count, their interpretations that mostly coincide with the majority of refs (even Wayne - our new pal Wayne, was happy enough with what he saw from us this year)

...and yet, John Lacey is incompetent?

Maybe for 'incompetent', the word should instead be 'pedantic'?  Maybe more teams should listen to his pedantic instructions and they might find their penalty numbers going down? No?

The main problem with being pedantic, and there are a lot of those, is that when you miss something obvious it looks so much worse. Disregarding Lacey's inability to always remember the laws (I still shudder and laugh at him penalising Peter Betham for offside when he picked up his own knock on) - I often feel he is looking so hard for the obscure that he misses really bad and obvious stuff.

A pedantic ref is exactly the sort you want at training, but perhaps the last you want in an actual game?

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by SecretFly on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 4:35 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Isn't it peculiar though - John Lacey is Ireland's go-to ref for taking sessions with the team to teach them how to be good, obedient and correct in all their facets of play.

Ireland then go on and kinda prick the ears of all opponent sides with their precision, their low penalty count, their interpretations that mostly coincide with the majority of refs (even Wayne - our new pal Wayne, was happy enough with what he saw from us this year)

...and yet, John Lacey is incompetent?

Maybe for 'incompetent', the word should instead be 'pedantic'?  Maybe more teams should listen to his pedantic instructions and they might find their penalty numbers going down? No?

The main problem with being pedantic, and there are a lot of those, is that when you miss something obvious it looks so much worse. Disregarding Lacey's inability to always remember the laws (I still shudder and laugh at him penalising Peter Betham for offside when he picked up his own knock on) - I often feel he is looking so hard for the obscure that he misses really bad and obvious stuff.

A pedantic ref is exactly the sort you want at training, but perhaps the last you want in an actual game?

I think you're quite right in the summation there, Tiger. But next time Eddie wants someone in to help, he could do worse than having those pedantic eyes in to sharpen the drills.

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by whocares on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 6:47 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Interesting from an amateur ref looking at this game :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clOx3DkheMk

Nice one. That man was getting really excited / angry towards the end !

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by quinsforever on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 9:57 am

well this hardly seems likely to mollify anyone...surely he should just stfu until World Rugby decide what is to be done?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43495000

Petrache said he had been "deeply saddened and disappointed by the attitude of the Spanish players, representatives and fans".

He added: "Letting one's emotions get the best of them is a sign of immaturity, that proves that the Spanish team is not ready to face responsibly the challenges an elite competition involves.

"There is no room for hooliganism, misconduct and denigration in rugby."

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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 23 Mar 2018, 8:29 am

This a country that throws donkeys and Goats off of buildings and stab spears into Bulls for entertainment!

I don't want them at the RWC.
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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by tigertattie on Fri 23 Mar 2018, 9:27 am

TightHEAD wrote:This a country that throws donkeys and Goats off of buildings and stab spears into Bulls for entertainment!

I don't want them at the RWC.

Badger baiting
Dog fighting
Fox hunting

Not condoning the abuse of animals in Spain, but we're hardly in a position to criticize in the UK are we

Yes I know in Spain much of it supported by the state, but remember the UK government lifted the ban of fox hunting which is the same thing!
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Re: Romania World Cup Qualification - Match Fixing Allegations

Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 23 Mar 2018, 10:55 am

Having watched it I think a rematch is definitely needed. I can understand the Spanish players frustration - though they've perhaps knocked their chances of a proper review as their behaviour post-match could be used as an excuse for the poor reffing decisions.

Chances of having it replayed? Relatively low I think sadly.

I feel bad for the Romanian players too as I'm sure none of them want automatic qualification based on a game that appears to have been heavily influenced by a referee with a conflict of interest.
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