Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

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Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 11:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here’s an easy one. Who was the first European rugby union to win all tests in a tour series in the Southern Hemisphere?

Whilst Ireland's playing history - home and away - against South Africa and New Zealand was littered with one failure after another in the amateur days, surprisingly their record against Australia is pockmarked with wins at home and on the road, albeit matches were held less frequently in the BSE - Baggy Shorts Era.

Not many people might know this, but Ireland has had 4 proper rugby tours of Australia - in 1967, 1979, 1994, and 1999. By proper, I mean old-style tours involving matches against provincial union or state teams as well as one or two test matches against the Wallabies. And rather surprisingly, Ireland have won two tours and lost two.

Ireland’s fifth tour of Australia begins with the first of three tests on 9 June and it promises to settle a few scores, mark the overall ledger up in favour of one, and probably create a few bragging and bagging rights along the way for fans and commentators.

Australia won the first two tests between the countries in 1927 and 1947 in Lansdowne Road in Dublin. On the Australian tour of Britain, Ireland and France in 1958, Ireland got their first test win on the board. Over the next 20 years, the teams met 7 times, with Ireland winning six of them, including their first-ever away test in Sydney as part of their first 6-game tour of Australia in 1967.

Ireland's last two test wins in Australia were those of the famous 1979 tour when the Irish team had their most successful winning patch, playing 8 games, including two tests, and losing just once against local representative team, Sydney.

Ollie Campbell, Mike Gibson, Terry Kennedy, Paul McNaughton, Tony Ward, Willie Duggan, Moss Keane, Fergus Slattery were some of the more well-known names on that tour. Tony Ward was the star name playing outhalf for Ireland. He had been named European Player of the Year for the second year running. All the running assumptions were that he’d play in a few of the run-up games and start the first test at the helm. A few days beforehand, the Irish manager and coach thought different and, inexplicably to nearly everyone, picked Campbell to start.

Across the two tests, Ireland scored 36 points with Campbell kicking 28 of them bringing his total to 60 points for the tour. He was named player of the tour. Ward, by his own admission in his autobiography, never played as well again and laid blame squarely at the manager and coach’s door for how they handled what became known in Irish rugby as ‘The Decision’.

Campbell returned home the hero of the hour by helping to claim the first individual tour victory in all tests by a northern team in the Southern Hemisphere. (France had won a test match but drawn the other test on tours of SA in 1958 and Oz 1972.) After the tour, Ireland’s overall win record stood at 6 wins to Australia’s 3.

Campbell and the team were cheered to the rafters. Ireland went on to win the Five Nations in 1982, shared it with France in 1983 and won it outright again in 1985. And then the curtain came down. And the roof started to fall in.

Two further 2-test tours against Australia followed in 1994 and 1999 - Ireland lost all the test matches and most of the midweek games against ACT, Sydney, and New South Wales amongst others.

Those two tours formed part of what is probably the lowest period in Irish rugby. Ireland played 11 tests against Australia, 8 versus New Zealand and 6 against South Africa between 1980 and 2002 - they lost every game. Despite their initial successes in the 1980s, their record in that period against Five/Six Nations opponents was not much better - 3 wins from 24 against France, 7 from 24 vs both England and Scotland, and even losing 3 from 8 against Italy.

From 2001 onwards, when professionalism finally took hold, and Irish provinces entered the Celtic League, the fortunes of the Irish provinces and test side changed - first under Eddie O'Sullivan, winning a test again against Australia in 2002 and for the first time against South Africa (2004). They moved from being regular wooden spooners in the 90's to competing at the top in the new Six Nations. Then they finally achieved a second Grand Slam in 2009 with Declan Kidney, 61 years after their first. They remained unbeaten that year finishing with a 15-10 win against Lions victors and the reigning Tri-Nations champions, South Africa.

Of course, after Ireland finally won again in 2002, Australia promptly won the next four tests. Another Irish win in 2006 was followed by two Wallaby wins and a draw. Then came the RWC pool match in 2011 with both teams meeting on neutral NZ territory. Australia ran into Stephen Ferris and Sean O’Brien for the first time and Will Genia found himself being picked up and carried backwards whilst his team-mates were held up time and again in the famous choke tackle and eventually out of the game. Australia won the next test in 2013, and Ireland won the next one a year later, and the next one again in 2016.

Nonetheless, Australia continue to have the upper hand - 21 wins to Ireland’s 11 (and a sister-smooching draw). But Ireland is determined to close the gap further.

So now it’s the turn of Joe Schmidt to bring the Ireland squad down-under for a three-test series in June. Expectations are high with Ireland’s recent Grand Slam win and recent record against the Wallabies.

Except they haven’t won in Oz for 39 years.

Their last away loss was in Brisbane in June 2010 as part of a NZ/Aus Tour. On that day, newcomer outhalf, Johnny Sexton, kicked all of Ireland’s 15 points in the first half, to Australia’s 16 points. But the Declan Kidney-coached team, off the back of a 97-point shellacking from the All Blacks and NZ Maori in the previous weeks, and down a few key players, couldn’t overtake the Wallabies as Giteau notched another couple of penalties to finish them off - 22-15.

Eight years on from Brisbane, both teams are in different places and ranking. Cheika is hoping to fashion a team that can compete and win in the Rugby Championship. He needs a decent scalp on his belt going into that battle. Schmidt has the 6N in his back pocket and a team that is beginning to hum nicely with a mix of old heads and young hearts running a new 12-match streak. Ireland are the current holders of the Lansdowne Cup - the trophy fought between the two sides since 1999.

England, Scotland & Wales have announced squads with development and player rest on their minds as coaches seek to add depth to their squads for RWC 2019. Irish pundits and fans have been making similar noises querying whether players such as Sexton, Murray, Furlong, Stander should rest up on their summer hols and let the younger Turks get more time and experience. Schmidt has faced this before, imposed through injury rather than selection by choice, when he brought a relatively raw squad to South Africa and gave much needed game time to some new faces including Furlong, Henderson, Roux, Stander, and Marmion.

Schmidt will want to win the series, but he needs to give more time to the newbies. He’s got a few injuries such as Henderson, O’Brien, Farrell, Best but still has plenty of choice this time around and all of them hungry for some tasty wallaby.

Ireland Squad (Summer Tour 2018, Australia)

FORWARDS (18)

Tadhg Beirne (Scarlets) uncapped
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 7 caps
Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 61 caps
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 23 caps
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 78 caps
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 38 caps
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 3 caps
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 9 caps
Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster) 47 caps
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 20 caps
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 47 caps
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps
Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 5 caps
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 8 caps
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 13 caps
Niall Scannell (Munster) 4 caps
CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 23 caps
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 58 caps

BACKS (14)
Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 7 caps
Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) uncapped
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 10 caps
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 6 caps
John Cooney (Terenure College RFC/Ulster) 1 cap
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 67 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 33 caps
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 83 caps
Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 3 caps
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 21 caps
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 64 caps
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 13 caps
Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 73 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahnch/Ulster) 9 caps

IRELAND SUMMER TOUR 2018 FIXTURES

Saturday 9th June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)

Saturday 16th June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
AAMI Park, Melbourne, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)

Saturday 23rd June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
Allianz Park, Sydney KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)


Ireland win the series 2-1 with the final test in Sydney ending 20-16.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Sat 23 Jun 2018, 9:19 pm; edited 9 times in total
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Mon 21 May 2018, 11:49 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
rodders wrote:Beirne's recent comments about Ireland using his location as a reason for not selecting him won't have gone down well with Schmidt.

He might find himself at home for the summer to brush up on his media skills....

Yeah maybe the face doesn't fit.

It did remind me of that... and that didn't end well for Cave.. Zebedee made the same mistake as well.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 22 May 2018, 6:15 pm

Schmidt naming Oz Squad tomorrow Wednesday apparently.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by carpet baboon on Tue 22 May 2018, 10:29 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Schmidt naming Oz Squad tomorrow Wednesday apparently.

Why's he doing that. Can't he just call them Australia? Cool Very Happy

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 23 May 2018, 5:54 pm

Ireland Squad (Summer Tour 2018, Australia)

FORWARDS (18)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain 111 caps
Tadhg Beirne (Scarlets) uncapped
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 7 caps
Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 61 caps
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 23 caps
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 78 caps
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 38 caps
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 3 caps
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 9 caps
Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster) 47 caps
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 20 caps
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 47 caps
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps
Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 5 caps
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 8 caps
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 13 caps
CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 23 caps
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 58 caps

BACKS (14)
Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 7 caps
Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) uncapped
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 10 caps
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 6 caps
John Cooney (Terenure College RFC/Ulster) 1 cap
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 67 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 33 caps
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 83 caps
Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 3 caps
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 21 caps
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 64 caps
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 13 caps
Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 73 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahnch/Ulster) 9 caps

IRELAND SUMMER TOUR 2018 FIXTURES

Saturday 9th June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)

Saturday 16th June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
AAMI Park, Melbourne, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)

Saturday 23rd June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
Allianz Park, Sydney KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by toml on Wed 23 May 2018, 6:56 pm

Deserved call for Cooney and Beirne.

Looking forward to seeing them in green.

Healy
Best
Furlong
Henderson
Ryan
POM
Leavy
Stander
Murray
Sexton
Stockdale
Aki
Ringrose
Earls
Kearney

Cronin
McGrath
Porter
Toner
Murphy
Cooney
Carbery
Henshaw/Conway

I would pick Aki over Henshaw as I would fancy him to unlock the australian defence.
Toner unlucky, but vs Australia i favour mobility over set piece.
Tempted by Beirne instead of POM
The Grand Slam winners don't deserve to be dropped in general

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by carpet baboon on Wed 23 May 2018, 7:38 pm

With Aki and henshaw both not fully fit, should joe have picked an extra center?
I know we have a few back 3 who can play at 13 and our 10s I'm sure can slot in at 12 but would rather a specialist in there

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Maine man on Wed 23 May 2018, 8:32 pm

I thought that myself. I thought with the lingering doubt over henshaw and aki, I thought or should I say hoped mccloskey might have got picked or if not him Scannell. I do think however if Luke Marshall was fit he would have went.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Thu 24 May 2018, 3:21 pm

Very strong squad, it looks like Schmidt has a very clear idea of his RWC squad already.

The forwards looks very strong indeed but the back 3 looks a bit light to me.

Larmour in particular hasn't really built on his early season promise and flattered to deceive in the latter half of the season.

Gilroy looks sharp and would offer something but there is a definite lack of cutting edge out wide compared to the to 4-5 nations yet - Earls and Stockdale excepted.

Hopefully we can get the series win here, anything else would be a poor end to the season.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 24 May 2018, 5:15 pm

rodders wrote:Very strong squad, it looks like Schmidt has a very clear idea of his RWC squad already.

The forwards looks very strong indeed but the back 3 looks a bit light to me.

Larmour in particular hasn't really built on his early season promise and flattered to deceive in the latter half of the season.

Gilroy looks sharp and would offer something but there is a definite lack of cutting edge out wide compared to the to 4-5 nations yet - Earls and Stockdale excepted.

Hopefully we can get the series win here, anything else would be a poor end to the season.

Yeah I agree but I also think the squad reflects a strong desire to win this series and go on and challenge the ABs in Nov. It is a stronger squad than the one to SA IMO for example.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 24 May 2018, 5:29 pm

That squad is a centre short and I agree re Larmour, nothing special in the 2nd half of the season and Gilroy has out performed him

Other than Roux I'd be happy to see all those forwards in the WC squad

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 24 May 2018, 5:40 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:That squad is a centre short and I agree re Larmour, nothing special in the 2nd half of the season and Gilroy has out performed him

Other than Roux I'd be happy to see all those forwards in the WC squad

I agree re Larmour. I think it was too soon for him. I don't think he has done anything wrong but he hasn't looked very self assured.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Great Aukster on Thu 24 May 2018, 10:32 pm

Surely there was no way the IRFU would allow the selection of Gilroy so soon after his disciplinary?

Interesting that Byrne is now in the squad - he might just be leapfrogging the obdurate Carbery as backup 10.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 25 May 2018, 9:10 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Surely there was no way the IRFU would allow the selection of Gilroy so soon after his disciplinary?

Interesting that Byrne is now in the squad - he might just be leapfrogging the obdurate Carbery as backup 10.

Hardly, if you are good enough you play. All he did was say something unsavoury in a private conversation.

Israel Folau has said a lot worse pubically and stopping him may be key to Ireland winning this series.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by eirebilly on Fri 25 May 2018, 10:37 am

geoff999rugby wrote:That squad is a centre short and I agree re Larmour, nothing special in the 2nd half of the season and Gilroy has out performed him

Other than Roux I'd be happy to see all those forwards in the WC squad

I actually think Larmour has been very solid. He may not have done the flashy things that got him well noticed but he has certainly been very good in my eyes. His defence and ruck hitting has been excellent. Think he has grown and developed quite well as a player in the second half of the season.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by profitius on Fri 25 May 2018, 1:32 pm

eirebilly wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:That squad is a centre short and I agree re Larmour, nothing special in the 2nd half of the season and Gilroy has out performed him

Other than Roux I'd be happy to see all those forwards in the WC squad

I actually think Larmour has been very solid. He may not have done the flashy things that got him well noticed but he has certainly been very good in my eyes. His defence and ruck hitting has been excellent. Think he has grown and developed quite well as a player in the second half of the season.


I agree with both of you. He has been solid (which can't be underestimated) but he hasn't done much in an attacking sense since the first half of the season. Still, let him develop on the wing then put him in at fullback which is his best position.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sat 26 May 2018, 7:29 pm

Just to see the end of the season off, Larmour scores a brilliant try in the Pro-14 final. Great vision and speed.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Mon 28 May 2018, 9:52 am

Yup good to see it, I still maintain he hasn't had the best few months - he's been shackled in attack and exposed in defense.

That was a super try though, I'd love to believe that chip ahead was 100% intentional and he realized there was no one in behind. Excellent pick up to finish.

Sexton was on top form too which is good going into the tour.

Luke McGrath had a super game and is unlucky not to be going ahead of Marmion.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by marty2086 on Thu 31 May 2018, 2:29 pm

Rory out of the tour with a hamstring injury

furious

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Thu 31 May 2018, 2:45 pm

Not too disappointed about that to be honest. Rory wants to be taking it easy between now and next September.

It's an area we could be doing with looking at a few options.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 31 May 2018, 4:55 pm

To me it is a big blow. Rory Best has been a great captain for Ireland so I think the team will be weaker without him.

Who is set to captain in his place. Should just give it to James Ryan. It will be him in a few years anyway.

Im sure it will be given to POM or Sexton though.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Maine man on Thu 31 May 2018, 5:22 pm

I'm looking forward to see how Cronin goes. I think he's a cracking player.
Sexton odds on to be captain. If that's the case then the likelihood of carberry starting at 10 is highly unlikely.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:40 am

Yeah Sexton is one of the few guaranteed starters in key games. Not sure POM is. I thin Ryan is more of a key player at this point so he would be my captain after Sexton or even before him in a couple of years.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 12:08 pm

Who is replacing Best ? - I assume Tracey

Sorry but great sub that he is Cronin isn't a starter in my book.
Herring has a huge opportunity if he has the ability to grab it

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by marty2086 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 12:48 pm

Scannells been called up

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by SecretFly on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 10:26 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Who is replacing Best ? - I assume Tracey

Sorry but great sub that he is Cronin isn't a starter in my book.
Herring has a huge opportunity if he has the ability to grab it

Best sub on the planet.
Never has one man done so long a bench stint and still do some quite slick and explosive rugby when on.  He deserves a shot at promotion off the bench.  His bum doesn't perform to its best when overheated on a bench for too long - proven scientific fact.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 9:33 am

It's one thing not to start because there's a better player (and captain) in front of him, but it would be totally devastating for Cronin not to start with Best out. He has improved a lot over the last season and deserves his chance to show how much better than Fainga'a he is.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 10:22 am

Maine man wrote:I'm looking forward to see how Cronin goes. I think he's a cracking player.
Sexton odds on to be captain. If that's the case then the likelihood of carberry starting at 10 is highly unlikely.

I would say POM will be Captain, I don't think Schmidt will want to place any extra burden on Sexton. When fit, POM is one of the first names on the team sheet.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Sin é on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:00 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Maine man wrote:I'm looking forward to see how Cronin goes. I think he's a cracking player.
Sexton odds on to be captain. If that's the case then the likelihood of carberry starting at 10 is highly unlikely.

I would say POM will be Captain, I don't think Schmidt will want to place any extra burden on Sexton. When fit, POM is one of the first names on the team sheet.

Think Sexton & POM are sharing it (they are both vice-captains). That would suggest that neither will probably start all 3 games.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:12 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Maine man wrote:I'm looking forward to see how Cronin goes. I think he's a cracking player.
Sexton odds on to be captain. If that's the case then the likelihood of carberry starting at 10 is highly unlikely.

I would say POM will be Captain, I don't think Schmidt will want to place any extra burden on Sexton. When fit, POM is one of the first names on the team sheet.

Don't agree for me only Furlong and Best are shoo ins in the forwards and that is part of the reason Ireland have improved so much
The backs are a different matter - pick themselves and that is a problem

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by SecretFly on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:18 pm

Furlong is a pup...bad form will hit him sometime and when it does............. a lot of print mileage on his superhuman stuff might look a little dated.
Do I wish bad form on him? Not a bit. But truth comes regardless. It's how these players react to bad form periods and how they come back that makes them habitual shoo-ins. Rory fits the bill and POM fits the bill. Furlong will be tested.... hopefully he'll stall that period until after 2019. Whistle

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 9:38 am

Looking forward to this now, this will be a big test of our RWC credentials - I strongly fancy either us or NZ to win in Japan but we need a series win under our belt.

It will be interesting to see what Schmidt does for the first test, the indications are there will be a bit of experimenting over the 3 games so I expect to see a mix of youth and experience - the split captaincy suggests Sexton will start at most 2 games, maybe only one.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by marty2086 on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 10:33 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Maine man wrote:I'm looking forward to see how Cronin goes. I think he's a cracking player.
Sexton odds on to be captain. If that's the case then the likelihood of carberry starting at 10 is highly unlikely.

I would say POM will be Captain, I don't think Schmidt will want to place any extra burden on Sexton. When fit, POM is one of the first names on the team sheet.

Don't agree for me only Furlong and Best are shoo ins in the forwards and that is part of the reason Ireland have improved so much
The backs are a different matter - pick themselves and that is a problem

Agree with geoff re POM and that's not a bad thing, given Ryan and Toner are going well for Leinster guys like Henderson and Beirne could add something different in the backrow to POM. It's a nice dilemma to have going towards a RWC

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 10:57 am

O'Mahoney is part of the leadership group so therefore could assume he is a shoe-in.

However when O'Brien returns there will be an interesting dilemma as Leavy has been so impressive, I believe he is the best backrower of the lot and suspect it will be O'Brien on the bench. I don't think either Beirne or Henderson are considered serious back row options as we have far more depth in the back row than lock, at least until Kleyn qualifies.  

If everyone remains fit I think I'm not convinced NZ can match our squad with their current crop and although I suspect SA will become a force under Erasmus it won't be in time for the RWC.

Ironically Scotland look like the only other tier 1 nation on an upward trajectory.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by marty2086 on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 11:04 am

Don't think being part of the leadership group guarantees you anything, the ABs had guys like Sam Cane in theirs while they were outside the team when McCaw was still playing. It's as much about character and culture who you have in the group rather than those who will be starting

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 5:14 pm

The Irish Times has published its possible team for Saturday:

Rob Kearney; Keith Earls, Jacob Stockdale;
Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki
Joey Carbery, Conor Murray
Jack McGrath, Rob Herring, John Ryan
Iain Henderson, James Ryan
Peter O’Mahony (capt), Jordi Murphy, CJ Stander.

No Toner, Cronin, Sexton, Leavy, Ringrose, Furlong, Healy starting but maybe on bench.

Interesting if it’s largely accurate.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by JmD on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 5:36 pm

Concerted effort to give the Leinster guys a bit more of a break following the final(s)?

Big test for those involved. Interesting that Schmidt seems to rate Herring higher than Ulster fans do. I'd be worried for the set piece without any of the key normal players involved.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 6:21 pm

Herring is a decent player but he is no Best

Then again there is no IQ hooker who is the equal of Best - hence my comment about him being a rare shoo in in the forewards

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by marty2086 on Thu 07 Jun 2018, 9:45 am

Herring does bring leadership qualities that maybe the other contenders don't, his scrummagging is also up there with Bests, you rarely notice any difference in the scrum between Herring and Best in games. He's also a presence at the breakdown

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Thu 07 Jun 2018, 9:51 am

JmD wrote:Concerted effort to give the Leinster guys a bit more of a break following the final(s)?

Big test for those involved. Interesting that Schmidt seems to rate Herring higher than Ulster fans do. I'd be worried for the set piece without any of the key normal players involved.

I rate him when is on form, but when he's bad he is bad.

Schmidt is just trying to see who his number 3 hooker is, I wouldn't see that he rates him that highly just on this selection.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by marty2086 on Thu 07 Jun 2018, 9:54 am

rodders wrote:
JmD wrote:Concerted effort to give the Leinster guys a bit more of a break following the final(s)?

Big test for those involved. Interesting that Schmidt seems to rate Herring higher than Ulster fans do. I'd be worried for the set piece without any of the key normal players involved.

I rate him when is on form, but when he's bad he is bad.

Schmidt is just trying to see who his number 3 hooker is, I wouldn't see that he rates him that highly just on this selection.

Ireland haven't had a number 2 hooker in the last year or so, Cronin was dropped from the squad in November don't forget so it would seem there is a real opportunity to stake a claim

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Brendan on Thu 07 Jun 2018, 1:33 pm

Will be interesting to see how the first test goes with the people rested. I assume Oz will put up the hardest challange in No. 1 so as to not be whitewashed again.

If we bring our physical clinic game I'm not sure they would be able to keep up. If it becomes loose we lose our strenght and play into their hands.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Thu 07 Jun 2018, 4:20 pm

I think the Wallabies will get stronger as the series goes, so either Joe feels a lot of the Leinster boys are not 100% yet or his priority isn't as much winning the series but a few more getting players experience in big tests.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Brendan on Thu 07 Jun 2018, 5:52 pm

rodders wrote:I think the Wallabies will get stronger as the series goes, so either Joe feels a lot of the Leinster boys are not 100% yet or his priority isn't as much winning the series but a few more getting players experience in big tests.

I got the England tests mixed up. The 40-44 was the final game. After two poor years of June tests (lost 0-3 v England, lost v Scotland and scraped pass Italy) they need to win at least one and be tight in the other two.

You would wonder how much longer Cheika can go if they loose all three again. I would happily take 2-1 win with all the players getting a good run out (and no injuries)

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Thu 07 Jun 2018, 7:14 pm

Pot Hale wrote:The Irish Times has published its possible team for Saturday:

Rob Kearney; Keith Earls, Jacob Stockdale;
Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki
Joey Carbery, Conor Murray
Jack McGrath, Rob Herring, John Ryan
Iain Henderson, James Ryan
Peter O’Mahony (capt), Jordi Murphy, CJ Stander.

No Toner, Cronin, Sexton, Leavy, Ringrose, Furlong, Healy starting but maybe on bench.

Interesting if it’s largely accurate.

I guess Beirne falls into the same rest category from the pro14 final.

That's probably the most experienced back 5. Really looking forward to the battle of the backrows.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Sin é on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 11:07 am

All very quiet here. I'm surprised that no one is talking about Joey getting the 10 jersey. Tadgh Beirne was never going to start (and probably won't get any starts) because of the very long season he has had and also that he is new into camp and probably has a lot of homework to do on lineouts calls etc. and build up a partnership with the rest of the locks.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by marty2086 on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 11:10 am

You're assuming he'll play lock though, did most of his games not come in the backrow this season for Scarlets?

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 11:25 am

Sin é wrote:All very quiet here. I'm surprised that no one is talking about Joey getting the 10 jersey. Tadgh Beirne was never going to start (and probably won't get any starts) because of the very long season he has had and also that he is new into camp and probably has a lot of homework to do on lineouts calls etc. and build up a partnership with the rest of the locks.


I think because it was expected. This is is a tough one for Carbury as if the game becomes unstructured it definitely will favor the Wallabies, so he will really need to control the game.

The front row has big question marks for Ireland too. Henshaw and Henderson are both coming back after long lay-offs as well. Presumably Roux will come on for Henderson around 60 min.

On paper you Wallabies look more dangerous, this will be a massive challenge.

A series win would cap of maybe the greatest season in Irish history but it looks to me that Schmidt is willing to concede the series in order to build for next year.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Sin é on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 11:32 am

marty2086 wrote:You're assuming he'll play lock though, did most of his games not come in the backrow this season for Scarlets?

He did actually (both 6 & 8). He probably will feature there first of all (though he will have to learn all the lineout calls as well no matter where he plays).
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Sin é on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 11:35 am

rodders wrote:
Sin é wrote:All very quiet here. I'm surprised that no one is talking about Joey getting the 10 jersey. Tadgh Beirne was never going to start (and probably won't get any starts) because of the very long season he has had and also that he is new into camp and probably has a lot of homework to do on lineouts calls etc. and build up a partnership with the rest of the locks.


I think because it was expected. This is is a tough one for Carbury as if the game becomes unstructured it definitely will favor the Wallabies, so he will really need to control the game.

The front row has big question marks for Ireland too. Henshaw and Henderson are both coming back after long lay-offs as well. Presumably Roux will come on for Henderson around 60 min.

On paper you Wallabies look more dangerous, this will be a massive challenge.

A series win would cap of maybe the greatest season in Irish history but it looks to me that Schmidt is willing to concede the series in order to build for next year.

The bench is very good and well able to fix any deficiencies in the team. I expect Ireland to win the series provided that there are no injuries to key players.

The actual team:

Ireland: 15-Rob Kearney, 14-Keith Earls, 13-Robbie Henshaw, 12-Bundee Aki, 11-Jacob Stockdale, 10-Joey Carbery, 9-Conor Murray; 8-CJ Stander, 7-Jordi Murphy, 6-Peter O'Mahony (captain), 5-Iain Henderson, 4-James Ryan, 3-John Ryan, 2-Rob Herring, 1-Jack McGrath.

Replacements: 16-Sean Cronin, 17-Cian Healy, 18-Tadhg Furlong, 19-Quinn Roux, 20-Jack Conan, 21-Kieran Marmion, 22-Johnny Sexton, 23-Jordan Larmour.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by marty2086 on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 11:42 am

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:You're assuming he'll play lock though, did most of his games not come in the backrow this season for Scarlets?

He did actually (both 6 & 8). He probably will feature there first of all (though he will have to learn all the lineout calls as well no matter where he plays).

It'll be interesting to see where he ends up, it gives a great option. He could really push POM for the 6 shirt in my opinion but doubt Munster will play him there

It's an exciting dilemma ahead

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

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