Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

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Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 11:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here’s an easy one. Who was the first European rugby union to win all tests in a tour series in the Southern Hemisphere?

Whilst Ireland's playing history - home and away - against South Africa and New Zealand was littered with one failure after another in the amateur days, surprisingly their record against Australia is pockmarked with wins at home and on the road, albeit matches were held less frequently in the BSE - Baggy Shorts Era.

Not many people might know this, but Ireland has had 4 proper rugby tours of Australia - in 1967, 1979, 1994, and 1999. By proper, I mean old-style tours involving matches against provincial union or state teams as well as one or two test matches against the Wallabies. And rather surprisingly, Ireland have won two tours and lost two.

Ireland’s fifth tour of Australia begins with the first of three tests on 9 June and it promises to settle a few scores, mark the overall ledger up in favour of one, and probably create a few bragging and bagging rights along the way for fans and commentators.

Australia won the first two tests between the countries in 1927 and 1947 in Lansdowne Road in Dublin. On the Australian tour of Britain, Ireland and France in 1958, Ireland got their first test win on the board. Over the next 20 years, the teams met 7 times, with Ireland winning six of them, including their first-ever away test in Sydney as part of their first 6-game tour of Australia in 1967.

Ireland's last two test wins in Australia were those of the famous 1979 tour when the Irish team had their most successful winning patch, playing 8 games, including two tests, and losing just once against local representative team, Sydney.

Ollie Campbell, Mike Gibson, Terry Kennedy, Paul McNaughton, Tony Ward, Willie Duggan, Moss Keane, Fergus Slattery were some of the more well-known names on that tour. Tony Ward was the star name playing outhalf for Ireland. He had been named European Player of the Year for the second year running. All the running assumptions were that he’d play in a few of the run-up games and start the first test at the helm. A few days beforehand, the Irish manager and coach thought different and, inexplicably to nearly everyone, picked Campbell to start.

Across the two tests, Ireland scored 36 points with Campbell kicking 28 of them bringing his total to 60 points for the tour. He was named player of the tour. Ward, by his own admission in his autobiography, never played as well again and laid blame squarely at the manager and coach’s door for how they handled what became known in Irish rugby as ‘The Decision’.

Campbell returned home the hero of the hour by helping to claim the first individual tour victory in all tests by a northern team in the Southern Hemisphere. (France had won a test match but drawn the other test on tours of SA in 1958 and Oz 1972.) After the tour, Ireland’s overall win record stood at 6 wins to Australia’s 3.

Campbell and the team were cheered to the rafters. Ireland went on to win the Five Nations in 1982, shared it with France in 1983 and won it outright again in 1985. And then the curtain came down. And the roof started to fall in.

Two further 2-test tours against Australia followed in 1994 and 1999 - Ireland lost all the test matches and most of the midweek games against ACT, Sydney, and New South Wales amongst others.

Those two tours formed part of what is probably the lowest period in Irish rugby. Ireland played 11 tests against Australia, 8 versus New Zealand and 6 against South Africa between 1980 and 2002 - they lost every game. Despite their initial successes in the 1980s, their record in that period against Five/Six Nations opponents was not much better - 3 wins from 24 against France, 7 from 24 vs both England and Scotland, and even losing 3 from 8 against Italy.

From 2001 onwards, when professionalism finally took hold, and Irish provinces entered the Celtic League, the fortunes of the Irish provinces and test side changed - first under Eddie O'Sullivan, winning a test again against Australia in 2002 and for the first time against South Africa (2004). They moved from being regular wooden spooners in the 90's to competing at the top in the new Six Nations. Then they finally achieved a second Grand Slam in 2009 with Declan Kidney, 61 years after their first. They remained unbeaten that year finishing with a 15-10 win against Lions victors and the reigning Tri-Nations champions, South Africa.

Of course, after Ireland finally won again in 2002, Australia promptly won the next four tests. Another Irish win in 2006 was followed by two Wallaby wins and a draw. Then came the RWC pool match in 2011 with both teams meeting on neutral NZ territory. Australia ran into Stephen Ferris and Sean O’Brien for the first time and Will Genia found himself being picked up and carried backwards whilst his team-mates were held up time and again in the famous choke tackle and eventually out of the game. Australia won the next test in 2013, and Ireland won the next one a year later, and the next one again in 2016.

Nonetheless, Australia continue to have the upper hand - 21 wins to Ireland’s 11 (and a sister-smooching draw). But Ireland is determined to close the gap further.

So now it’s the turn of Joe Schmidt to bring the Ireland squad down-under for a three-test series in June. Expectations are high with Ireland’s recent Grand Slam win and recent record against the Wallabies.

Except they haven’t won in Oz for 39 years.

Their last away loss was in Brisbane in June 2010 as part of a NZ/Aus Tour. On that day, newcomer outhalf, Johnny Sexton, kicked all of Ireland’s 15 points in the first half, to Australia’s 16 points. But the Declan Kidney-coached team, off the back of a 97-point shellacking from the All Blacks and NZ Maori in the previous weeks, and down a few key players, couldn’t overtake the Wallabies as Giteau notched another couple of penalties to finish them off - 22-15.

Eight years on from Brisbane, both teams are in different places and ranking. Cheika is hoping to fashion a team that can compete and win in the Rugby Championship. He needs a decent scalp on his belt going into that battle. Schmidt has the 6N in his back pocket and a team that is beginning to hum nicely with a mix of old heads and young hearts running a new 12-match streak. Ireland are the current holders of the Lansdowne Cup - the trophy fought between the two sides since 1999.

England, Scotland & Wales have announced squads with development and player rest on their minds as coaches seek to add depth to their squads for RWC 2019. Irish pundits and fans have been making similar noises querying whether players such as Sexton, Murray, Furlong, Stander should rest up on their summer hols and let the younger Turks get more time and experience. Schmidt has faced this before, imposed through injury rather than selection by choice, when he brought a relatively raw squad to South Africa and gave much needed game time to some new faces including Furlong, Henderson, Roux, Stander, and Marmion.

Schmidt will want to win the series, but he needs to give more time to the newbies. He’s got a few injuries such as Henderson, O’Brien, Farrell, Best but still has plenty of choice this time around and all of them hungry for some tasty wallaby.

Ireland Squad (Summer Tour 2018, Australia)

FORWARDS (18)

Tadhg Beirne (Scarlets) uncapped
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 7 caps
Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 61 caps
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 23 caps
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 78 caps
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 38 caps
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 3 caps
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 9 caps
Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster) 47 caps
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 20 caps
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 47 caps
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps
Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 5 caps
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 8 caps
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 13 caps
Niall Scannell (Munster) 4 caps
CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 23 caps
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 58 caps

BACKS (14)
Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 7 caps
Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) uncapped
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 10 caps
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 6 caps
John Cooney (Terenure College RFC/Ulster) 1 cap
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 67 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 33 caps
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 83 caps
Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 3 caps
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 21 caps
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 64 caps
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 13 caps
Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 73 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahnch/Ulster) 9 caps

IRELAND SUMMER TOUR 2018 FIXTURES

Saturday 9th June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)

Saturday 16th June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
AAMI Park, Melbourne, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)

Saturday 23rd June, 2018
Australia v IRELAND
Allianz Park, Sydney KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)


Ireland win the series 2-1 with the final test in Sydney ending 20-16.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Sat 23 Jun 2018, 9:19 pm; edited 9 times in total
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Pot Hale on Sat 23 Jun 2018, 9:48 pm

Great result Ireland and for Schmidt's target of developing the squad further.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Oracle on Sat 23 Jun 2018, 10:37 pm

Congrats Ireland, a well won series. clap

P.s. on the Robson debate, I like him!
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by RiscaGame on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 5:22 am

Artful_Dodger wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Enjoyed watching that, bar having to listen to Robson again. Very enjoyable series. Congratulations to Ireland.

I think he's a great commentator if its a dour Pro14 affair in terrible conditions. But for a game like this you just want him to shut up. Especially when you can't hear a conversation between Sexton and the ref leading to the Folau yellow cause he is blabbering on. I say that as a fellow Ulster man to Robson. He needs to stop talking some of the time.

Yeah that's it really. I don't mind him not being overly impartial, but there are a fair few times he can just keep chatting and then Quinlan seems to think he has to say a lot too, whenever he gets a rare chance.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 8:00 am

Biggest laugh for me was when the officials were ruling on whether Stockdale had touched the ball, and Pocock says to the referee "penalty try?".

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 8:08 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Biggest laugh for me was when the officials were ruling on whether Stockdale had touched the ball, and Pocock says to the referee "penalty try?".

You laugh but refs from test one and two probably would have given a penalty try.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 8:30 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Biggest laugh for me was when the officials were ruling on whether Stockdale had touched the ball, and Pocock says to the referee "penalty try?".

If Stockdale had knocked the ball on, it would have been a valid question to be fair. Aus has two players out wide with a free run in, it would have been a try if the pass was decent.

Dramatic end to a good game with Ireland deserving the win. I'd fancied Ireland to win 3-0 rather convincingly tbh, so not sure if the tour was a huge success...although it was certainly a success, as is any tour win against the "big 3".

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 8:48 am

It wasnt really a free run in. Larmour was covering the pass receivers.

Ireland tested out plenty of players, lots of rotation and a series win so I reckon it was a great success.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 9:54 am

Stockdale needs a lot of credit for his attempted intervention. Foley was obviously aware of his reputation for last minute intercept tries and tried to avoid him meaning the pass was way behind the Oz runners. Jacob's hand was moving upwards attempting to make the intercept, and Larmour was covering behind him. Other than those minor technicalities, Marius van der Westhuizen or Paul Williams would probably still have given the penalty try even if Stockdale had made a clean intercept and dotted down under the Australian posts.



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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by SecretFly on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 10:03 am

Apart from getting a series against New Zealand, this was the best trip a side could make to keep the pressure on performance-wise and to continue to work on this newly found Irish morsel called 'consistency'.  It's still an effort and you know how much hard work is needed to sustain the resolve to keep going at a top rate.
But all sides (except New Zealand) are finding that it's an effort to keep positivity motoring, so Ireland isn't alone on that score.  The more successful you are, the harder teams try to hit you (instinctively) and the tougher the job gets.

But these Irish players have had one intense year and came through with the confidence levels in tact.  I think now some of the younger ones know just how intense WC level rugby is - a different beast entirely to 6N.  No 'rest' weeks of playing a side like Italy - just a meat grinder that keeps asking more and more of players each week that comes.  The players will have learned some valuable lessons and some of the 'pomp' might have drained from the legs of the younger sparks - which will be a good thing hopefully if they appreciate the need to never think they are good enough and always seek to hone their game, especially into next year.

People say the Irish players, as individuals, play a less intense sequence of games through a year than their counterparts in England, France, maybe even Wales and Scotland; but nobody can look at the schedule of the Leinster players this year and say those players didn't work damn hard and hot for every accolade they got this year.  They may play less minutes in a year but the intensity of those minutes (big game minutes over and over and over again from Club to International) are a sign of their fitness levels, their resolve, their ability and their thirst.

It will be very hard to keep that degree of effort up into Autumn and the new year but the carrot is there - the WC is around the corner.  I'm not so sure the lure of it will be enough to keep many of these players in the top of their form.  Maybe we have 'peaked' a little early with England finding a step to winning again, Wales feeling increasingly confident and Scotland still feeling they have another gear to get to.

I think genuine season tiredness finally got to many Irish players in the Aussie cauldron and informed the 'clinging on' nature of the last encounter.  Minds were fully on the concept of Last game and you can't shake that mood of schools's out with even motivational chat.  They did enough to cling on and finish where they wanted to.  They are one fine squad of players and they've given Irish fans a season like no other.  They deserve their break but it's sobering to think that they all fully appreciate that they have to get even better now for next season.  Is 'better' in them?  We still need to work much more resolutely at the attack side of our game to make the quality opposition fight-backs less predictable.  We're still looking for more of a razor cut in attack.  If we dip in form now from November through to after the 6N well then I think I'll be curiously more happy than I think I'll be if they sustain the form.  I think we might need a little dip to get energised again by the adrenaline of fear.

Anyway, thanks Joe.... and stick around.  You know we love you (even DOD gushes when away from the public eye Wink )

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 10:09 am

Thought scannell had a fine tour. Looked a bit green on one or two occassions but did some great work. The throw to Stander for the try was exceptional. Credit.

Kearney annoyed me with a terrible attempt of a tackle for the Aussie try. He was decent as usual overall though.

Sexton world player of the year 2018?

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 10:10 am

Ireland players need to stop whinhing to refs a bit. Both Murray and Sexton guilty. Ireland are the most carded team in world rugby per penalty conceded so that needs to be addressed by sucking up to refs more.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by SecretFly on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 10:22 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland players need to stop whinhing to refs a bit. Both Murray and Sexton guilty. Ireland are the most carded team in world rugby per penalty conceded so that needs to be addressed by sucking up to refs more.

Yep, a strange stat when you consider that we are known to be a very controlled and disciplined team when it comes to being stingy on giving away penalties. So strange then that when we do cough them up, the cards seem to come out so easily from refs. Maybe the solution is actually to go easyish on the 'discipline' and then the refs won't be so shocked when they encounter Irish players causing penalties. Whistle

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 10:32 am

Personally I feel Kearney had a bad series.

Game 1
2 passes
12 runs for 32m
3 turnovers conceded
2 missed tackles

Game 2
3 passes
12 runs for 59m
1 turnover conceded
2 missed tackles

Game 3
2 passes
6 runs for 32m
1 turnover conceded
3 missed tackles

That said, at 32 and with 80 caps he is allowed to have an off series. He is still Irelands best 15.

Furlong, POM, Sexton and Ryan were the standout players for Ireland in my mind. I cannot stop saying just how brilliant Ryan is and he will only get better.

Sexton would also be my World Player of the Year. He is targeted every game and is constantly hit hard and late yet he always picks himself up and keeps going, hard as nails. He is also probably one of the best big match players in World Rugby.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Engine#4 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:11 am

I think Kearney hurt his shoulder before the Australian try which might explain his flap at the Aussie player. Not excuse it mind.

A word for John Ryan locking down the scrum. We were in real trouble and only seemed to be able to counter the Aussie tactics there when he came on.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by JmD on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:57 am

Kearney always misses the last line of defense tackles. He has for his whole career. He also has an uncanny ability when counter-attacking to pick out the first chasing player and run directly into him.

For all his prowess in the aerial game, I wish we would at least try out something different. Larmour looked lively when he came on. The heir apparent? What's his kicking game like?

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 12:22 pm

Think that is a bit harsh on Kearney there JmD, you don't get 80 International caps and have the trophy's he has in his cabinet by only being good in the air. He is not as bad a defender as made out to be and his counter attack has been excellent through the years.

I do agree about Larmour though, he has looked excellent every time I see him and I feel that Schmidt has been excellent in managing him into International rugby. He will be the Ireland 15 within the next few year but you still need Kearney there for his experience and to help Larmour along.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by theslosty on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 5:37 pm

I don't think we can win the RWC with Rob at 15. In fairness to him he's had a decent season and was top class 4 or 5 years ago but several elements of his game have declined. His aerial game while still strong is not as dominant as it used to be and I think Conway is at least as good in the air while offering more attacking threat. His counter-attack these days does simply not cut it at this level - you would be wary of kicking long to the likes of Folau, Ben Smith, McKenzie, le Roux, Hogg, Liam Williams, Minozzi etc. but you know with Kearney there's little risk of being caught. It's not even his inability to break the line which is the issue, he never seems to find even a soft shoulder and instead gets crunched by the first tackler putting our breakdown on the back foot. His defence is usually physical and brave but still has an uncanny knack of making the wrong decision nearly every time when faced with a one-on-one.

The obvious deficit in Ireland's game is the lack of precision in the backline. First of all I believe Ringrose is becoming a crucial player in that he has an elusiveness that none of our other centres possess. Watching the Australia or NZ attack it is apparent to me they play with a speed that our backline lacks. I'm not referring to footspeed but their ability to put the ball through the hands at pace. A couple of our backs, most notably Kearney, seem to require a couple of steps and a moment to look up before releasing their pass and so the few line breaks we create generally come off structured moves. This is probably my biggest argument for trying out another 15 as Rob is just too slow and too predictable when he comes into the line.

I was glad to see Larmour get 20 minutes or so at full back as I think that was his first chance there in an Ireland jersey. The wing does not look like his natural position to me as despite having incredible feet his straight-line speed is not especially remarkable.

To conclude, bringing in Larmour or possibly Conway at 15 would be a risk but a necessary one imo.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:26 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Thought scannell had a fine tour. Looked a bit green on one or two occassions but did some great work. The throw to Stander for the try was exceptional. Credit.

Kearney annoyed me with a terrible attempt of a tackle for the Aussie try. He was decent as usual overall though.

Sexton world player of the year 2018?

Definitely heatstroke

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by carpet baboon on Mon 25 Jun 2018, 8:33 am

Watched the 3rd test again last night and I have to say Aki had a great game. His defence was fantastic.
Also noticed that Phipps passing cost Australia big, lots of high balls and passes at rather than In front of Foley

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by SecretFly on Mon 25 Jun 2018, 9:39 am

I watched it again last night too and Ireland had their end-of-game spell when Australia came at them 'in waves' but I saw a well composed Ireland soak up pressure as if it were an exercise in soaking up intense pressure.  A great learning curve for 'pressure endings' that Joe seems to secretly and masochistically love.

I asked myself, was this a side really out on their feet?  Is this a side that had no more 'possession' or 'attack' in them had they gone behind Australia in the final 10 minutes or so?  And the truth is I couldn't see an Ireland side on its last legs and 'clinging on'.  It was an Ireland side being Ireland - enough is enough, let's defend this basterde game now to the bitter end.  We're no strangers to fingernail on-the-edge scorelines from Ireland.  But I didn't see a team clinging on, just one wrapping up.
Australia still might have won in the end.  Don't get me wrong.  But Joe Schmidt said he didn't think his players had another week left in them.  I think Australia would have been as unsure about another week.  They were throwing the kitchen sink at us because of it being an all-or-nothing encounter.  But they were breathing as heavily if not more so than the Irish players from the effort.  Irish players look really fit now and probably had another 15 minutes in the tank had Wayne Barnes been the ref Wink

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by SecretFly on Mon 25 Jun 2018, 12:21 pm

Ireland joining the 90 pointers (WR rankings) for a first time in their history too this week I think. The year that kept giving.

....Big loss to New Zealand in the Autumn so..... Whistle ...nothing ever lasts in Ireland, except grumbling about the weather.

It's too hot outside today btw..

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by George Carlin on Tue 26 Jun 2018, 6:55 am

Well done to Irish rugby generally - it all came together this year and with such a good academy and club structure in place, it looks set to continue. No other home nation I would root for in the same way.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by SecretFly on Tue 26 Jun 2018, 9:52 am

OK Thanks George.  Appreciated Hug

What I found to be the strangest thing of all about this year, and the feelings of this year, goes back to quite a few weeks before the start of the 6N really.
I took a look at Joe Schmidt's 6N squad of players that were listed down somewhere here and I was genuinely kinda taken aback by the individual quality of players that I was reading, name after name after name.  
I'd never felt that before when reading down through a squad list for any Irish International side.  We've always had a few bright sparks sprinkled through a squad but you always were conscious that any injuries picked up by some of those key guys and our hopes would change from reasonably hopeful of a top three finish if we got some luck to real concern that we'd get the spoon.  INCONSISTENCY plagued us.
But back to Pre this 6N; I remember thinking - and saying - that the squad of players I'd read out had lost all excuses for coming second, third, fourth or fifth.  There was such individual quality there that they really had no hiding places if they didn't go the whole way and win outright.  I'd never sensed before, or remotely felt like declaring such confidence before in all my years watching rugby.  This year changed all that and the mood came early - and look how the players have responded to the challenge of that feeling even within themselves.  

I'm sure there have been times when really good Irish players have had that sinking feeling about their 'aloneness' in so-so Irish teams.  They wouldn't have admitted it but they'd have been concerned that there wasn't enough quality to make any big sustained inroads in many competitions.  Now in the present, each player can look around him and see quality to his right and to his left.  That confidence that they will be supported by players of similar quality adds oodles to confidence levels and allows a year like this one to happen.

Tough season next year for all International sides.  I won't be too disappointed if the foot comes off the pedal with Ireland in the early stages of the new season as long as it's a considered easing up with coaching resolutions about controlling form perhaps directing it.  You have to balance expectations now with allowing players that have given so much a period to re-charge batteries - even within an active season.  Next season will be a monster rugby year for all of us - good or bad.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by George Carlin on Tue 26 Jun 2018, 4:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:
I'm sure there have been times when really good Irish players have had that sinking feeling about their 'aloneness' in so-so Irish teams.  They wouldn't have admitted it but they'd have been concerned that there wasn't enough quality to make any big sustained inroads in many competitions.  Now in the present, each player can look around him and see quality to his right and to his left.  That confidence that they will be supported by players of similar quality adds oodles to confidence levels and allows a year like this one to happen.
Poor barsteward - one of my favourites:

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Tue 26 Jun 2018, 4:44 pm

Late to the party here but that was a tremendous result, the best so far of a near perfect season.

Performance wise I thought Ireland were well below par and have been in this tour generally but the resolve to hang in there and close out the series was really impressive. Similar to the win in Paris they just hung in there.

The Wallabies were better than I expected and it was an incredibly close 3 games. they probably played the better rugby over the series but Ireland managed the big moments better and kept composed under pressure.

The officials have been appalling in this series, probably all the series but thankfully didn't spoil 3 great tests.

A clean sweep in the Autumn now should cap a great 2018...
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 26 Jun 2018, 6:02 pm

theslosty wrote:I don't think we can win the RWC with Rob at 15. In fairness to him he's had a decent season and was top class 4 or 5 years ago but several elements of his game have declined. His aerial game while still strong is not as dominant as it used to be and I think Conway is at least as good in the air while offering more attacking threat. His counter-attack these days does simply not cut it at this level - you would be wary of kicking long to the likes of Folau, Ben Smith, McKenzie, le Roux, Hogg, Liam Williams, Minozzi etc. but you know with Kearney there's little risk of being caught. It's not even his inability to break the line which is the issue, he never seems to find even a soft shoulder and instead gets crunched by the first tackler putting our breakdown on the back foot. His defence is usually physical and brave but still has an uncanny knack of making the wrong decision nearly every time when faced with a one-on-one.

The obvious deficit in Ireland's game is the lack of precision in the backline. First of all I believe Ringrose is becoming a crucial player in that he has an elusiveness that none of our other centres possess. Watching the Australia or NZ attack it is apparent to me they play with a speed that our backline lacks. I'm not referring to footspeed but their ability to put the ball through the hands at pace. A couple of our backs, most notably Kearney, seem to require a couple of steps and a moment to look up before releasing their pass and so the few line breaks we create generally come off structured moves. This is probably my biggest argument for trying out another 15 as Rob is just too slow and too predictable when he comes into the line.

I was glad to see Larmour get 20 minutes or so at full back as I think that was his first chance there in an Ireland jersey. The wing does not look like his natural position to me as despite having incredible feet his straight-line speed is not especially remarkable.

To conclude, bringing in Larmour or possibly Conway at 15 would be a risk but a necessary one imo.

I dont think we would win ot with anyone else at 15. It is a key position so experience is critical. Kearney is normally a big game player so he will be our RWC 15.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Sin é on Wed 27 Jun 2018, 1:01 pm

Folou copped a one match ban. Think he is appealing.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by SecretFly on Wed 27 Jun 2018, 1:20 pm

It's going to VAR for conclusive proof one way or another!

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Wed 27 Jun 2018, 10:43 pm

Sin é wrote:Folou copped a one match ban. Think he is appalling.

Fixed that

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Wed 27 Jun 2018, 10:46 pm

George Carlin wrote:Well done to Irish rugby generally - it all came together this year and with such a good academy and club structure in place, it looks set to continue. No other home nation I would root for in the same way.

Are we back to WW1?

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by George Carlin on Thu 28 Jun 2018, 6:09 am

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Well done to Irish rugby generally - it all came together this year and with such a good academy and club structure in place, it looks set to continue. No other home nation I would root for in the same way.

Are we back to WW1?
picard
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Sin é on Thu 28 Jun 2018, 2:51 pm

Folou lost his appeal.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by profitius on Tue 03 Jul 2018, 12:28 pm

Podcast on the match from trk.

https://www.threeredkings.com/trk-podcast-55/
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Fri 13 Jul 2018, 6:08 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Well done to Irish rugby generally - it all came together this year and with such a good academy and club structure in place, it looks set to continue. No other home nation I would root for in the same way.

Are we back to WW1?
picard

Indeed George so you should. It shows a shocking level of education from you.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Cyril on Fri 13 Jul 2018, 10:39 pm

Home Nations. We all reside in the British Isles.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 14 Jul 2018, 10:04 am

The term British Isles is controversial in Ireland, where there are objections to its usage due to the association of the word British with Ireland. The Government of Ireland does not recognise or use the term and its embassy in London discourages its use. As a result, Britain and Ireland is used as an alternative description

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 14 Jul 2018, 10:06 am

Just goes to show that people never lose the propaganda they're taught in school.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by SecretFly on Sat 14 Jul 2018, 2:53 pm

It's not that it's controversial really, it's just that a sovereign State doesn't see a word, invented by someone else a long way back, even further back than the SaxonEnglish invasion of GB, as an identifier of self.  A State gets to call itself what it wants - and the Southern bit of this island chooses Ireland for the thing we live in that's surrounded by water... not Ireland as a sub division of something else (British), just Ireland.  Mexico gets to call itself Mexico, it doesn't need America in the title. The UK gets to call itself the UK, it doesn't need France or Mainland Europe in the title. 

I like it that way.  Now if only I could persuade my fellow Irish men to also get rid of the sub heading 'European'  Whistle .  It's funny too that a geographical identity is often hijacked by politico Imperialists to strongly hint at ownership rights, so let's not be coy about why an Island's name is obviously mixed in with "propaganda in schools"... propaganda in schools everywhere, not just in the schools of the auld Emerald Isle.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that just because the Romans (or probably moreso the ancient Greeks) named the islands as a group and called them 'British' etc.... doesn't require a whole new generation thousands of years later to bow or curtsy to that ancient name.  It's better off that peoples name themselves rather than have it pressed upon them by remote and casual Mediterranean observers.

Now let's discuss the British West Indies, and there's a bunch of islands a LONG LONG way from "home", aren't they................ Whistle

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Oracle on Sat 14 Jul 2018, 3:37 pm

At the same time it’s not easy to just call yourself (I.e. call your country) what you want to either. Just look at the trouble in Mecedonia currently.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 15 Jul 2018, 12:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's not that it's controversial really, it's just that a sovereign State doesn't see a word, invented by someone else a long way back, even further back than the SaxonEnglish invasion of GB, as an identifier of self.  A State gets to call itself what it wants - and the Southern bit of this island chooses Ireland for the thing we live in that's surrounded by water... not Ireland as a sub division of something else (British), just Ireland.  Mexico gets to call itself Mexico, it doesn't need America in the title.  The UK gets to call itself the UK, it doesn't need France or Mainland Europe in the title. 

I like it that way.  Now if only I could persuade my fellow Irish men to also get rid of the sub heading 'European'  Whistle .  It's funny too that a geographical identity is often hijacked by politico Imperialists to strongly hint at ownership rights, so let's not be coy about why an Island's name is obviously mixed in with "propaganda in schools"... propaganda in schools everywhere, not just in the schools of the auld Emerald Isle.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that just because the Romans (or probably moreso the ancient Greeks) named the islands as a group and called them 'British' etc.... doesn't require a whole new generation thousands of years later to bow or curtsy to that ancient name.  It's better off that peoples name themselves rather than have it pressed upon them by remote and casual Mediterranean observers.

Now let's discuss the British West Indies, and there's a bunch of islands a LONG LONG way from "home", aren't they................ Whistle

The propaganda taught in schools applies equally to both sides of the border - travel a few miles and see the difference in text books.

Mexico can politically call itself whatever it wants, but it cannot force that choice on others when referring to it. Geographically, Mexico can be accurately described as part of the 'Americas' or 'Central America' whether they like it or not.

It is incredible that anyone from Ireland should consider the designation given to a country as not being "controversial, really". Nomenclature has caused little but controversy on both sides of the border. The term 'Ireland' can mean different things to different people - the Republic of Ireland, the Irish free state, Éire, Eire, Poblacht na h-Éireann, Erin, the Emerald Isle etc. and does it represent 26 or 32 counties? There are a million inhabitants of the six counties in the 'North of Ireland' / 'Northern Ireland', who were taught in school that the land they are living on is geographically part of the group of islands collectively know as the 'the British Isles'. When a neighbouring sovereign State denies that association, are they not being just as 'politico Imperialist' as those suggesting Ireland is part of the British Isles?

The BWI are close to the Dutch, French, Spanish and Portuguese West Indies, but apart from the Bermuda sevens aren't big into rugby - perhaps that discussion should be for the cricket board?

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 12:02 am

The Oracle wrote:At the same time it’s not easy to just call yourself (I.e. call your country) what you want to either. Just look at the trouble in Mecedonia currently.

That’s unintentionally funny.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 12:13 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's not that it's controversial really, it's just that a sovereign State doesn't see a word, invented by someone else a long way back, even further back than the SaxonEnglish invasion of GB, as an identifier of self.  A State gets to call itself what it wants - and the Southern bit of this island chooses Ireland for the thing we live in that's surrounded by water... not Ireland as a sub division of something else (British), just Ireland.  Mexico gets to call itself Mexico, it doesn't need America in the title.  The UK gets to call itself the UK, it doesn't need France or Mainland Europe in the title. 

I like it that way.  Now if only I could persuade my fellow Irish men to also get rid of the sub heading 'European'  Whistle .  It's funny too that a geographical identity is often hijacked by politico Imperialists to strongly hint at ownership rights, so let's not be coy about why an Island's name is obviously mixed in with "propaganda in schools"... propaganda in schools everywhere, not just in the schools of the auld Emerald Isle.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that just because the Romans (or probably moreso the ancient Greeks) named the islands as a group and called them 'British' etc.... doesn't require a whole new generation thousands of years later to bow or curtsy to that ancient name.  It's better off that peoples name themselves rather than have it pressed upon them by remote and casual Mediterranean observers.

Now let's discuss the British West Indies, and there's a bunch of islands a LONG LONG way from "home", aren't they................ Whistle

The propaganda taught in schools applies equally to both sides of the border - travel a few miles and see the difference in text books.

Mexico can politically call itself whatever it wants, but it cannot force that choice on others when referring to it. Geographically, Mexico can be accurately described as part of the 'Americas' or 'Central America' whether they like it or not.

It is incredible that anyone from Ireland should consider the designation given to a country as not being "controversial, really". Nomenclature has caused little but controversy on both sides of the border. The term 'Ireland' can mean different things to different people - the Republic of Ireland, the Irish free state, Éire, Eire, Poblacht na h-Éireann, Erin, the Emerald Isle etc. and does it represent 26 or 32 counties? There are a million inhabitants of the six counties in the 'North of Ireland' / 'Northern Ireland', who were taught in school that the land they are living on is geographically part of the group of islands collectively know as the 'the British Isles'. When a neighbouring sovereign State denies that association, are they not being just as 'politico Imperialist' as those suggesting Ireland is part of the British Isles?

The BWI are close to the Dutch, French, Spanish and Portuguese West Indies, but apart from the Bermuda sevens aren't big into rugby - perhaps that discussion should be for the cricket board?

In fairness, the Government of Ireland - its official name as recognised by the UK and EU - says that British Isles is inappropriate as a description of the two countries of UK and Ireland. And that has been accepted by the British government. The Irish constitution still states that the name of the state is Éire or Ireland in the English language. Republic of Ireland or Irish Republic is not the official name of the country.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Oracle on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 7:56 am

Pot Hale wrote:
The Oracle wrote:At the same time it’s not easy to just call yourself (I.e. call your country) what you want to either. Just look at the trouble in Mecedonia currently.

That’s unintentionally funny.

Oh yeah! Whoops!
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Oracle on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 8:03 am

Pot Hale wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's not that it's controversial really, it's just that a sovereign State doesn't see a word, invented by someone else a long way back, even further back than the SaxonEnglish invasion of GB, as an identifier of self.  A State gets to call itself what it wants - and the Southern bit of this island chooses Ireland for the thing we live in that's surrounded by water... not Ireland as a sub division of something else (British), just Ireland.  Mexico gets to call itself Mexico, it doesn't need America in the title.  The UK gets to call itself the UK, it doesn't need France or Mainland Europe in the title. 

I like it that way.  Now if only I could persuade my fellow Irish men to also get rid of the sub heading 'European'  Whistle .  It's funny too that a geographical identity is often hijacked by politico Imperialists to strongly hint at ownership rights, so let's not be coy about why an Island's name is obviously mixed in with "propaganda in schools"... propaganda in schools everywhere, not just in the schools of the auld Emerald Isle.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that just because the Romans (or probably moreso the ancient Greeks) named the islands as a group and called them 'British' etc.... doesn't require a whole new generation thousands of years later to bow or curtsy to that ancient name.  It's better off that peoples name themselves rather than have it pressed upon them by remote and casual Mediterranean observers.

Now let's discuss the British West Indies, and there's a bunch of islands a LONG LONG way from "home", aren't they................ Whistle

The propaganda taught in schools applies equally to both sides of the border - travel a few miles and see the difference in text books.

Mexico can politically call itself whatever it wants, but it cannot force that choice on others when referring to it. Geographically, Mexico can be accurately described as part of the 'Americas' or 'Central America' whether they like it or not.

It is incredible that anyone from Ireland should consider the designation given to a country as not being "controversial, really". Nomenclature has caused little but controversy on both sides of the border. The term 'Ireland' can mean different things to different people - the Republic of Ireland, the Irish free state, Éire, Eire, Poblacht na h-Éireann, Erin, the Emerald Isle etc. and does it represent 26 or 32 counties? There are a million inhabitants of the six counties in the 'North of Ireland' / 'Northern Ireland', who were taught in school that the land they are living on is geographically part of the group of islands collectively know as the 'the British Isles'. When a neighbouring sovereign State denies that association, are they not being just as 'politico Imperialist' as those suggesting Ireland is part of the British Isles?

The BWI are close to the Dutch, French, Spanish and Portuguese West Indies, but apart from the Bermuda sevens aren't big into rugby - perhaps that discussion should be for the cricket board?

In fairness, the Government of Ireland - its official name as recognised by the UK and EU - says that British Isles is inappropriate as a description of the two countries of UK and Ireland.  And that has been accepted by the British government.   The Irish constitution still states that the name of the state is Éire or Ireland in the English language.  Republic of Ireland or Irish Republic is not the official name of the country.  

Inappropriate as a description of the two countries, yes. But perhaps not as a description of the landmass? And it’s not just those awful Brits. The French and Spanish (the first two I googled) refer to the group of islands in this way too - Isles Britannique and Islas Britanicas respectively. So probably taught in their text books too, when referring to the group of islands as a collective and not the countries within them.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 8:41 am

Pot Hale wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's not that it's controversial really, it's just that a sovereign State doesn't see a word, invented by someone else a long way back, even further back than the SaxonEnglish invasion of GB, as an identifier of self.  A State gets to call itself what it wants - and the Southern bit of this island chooses Ireland for the thing we live in that's surrounded by water... not Ireland as a sub division of something else (British), just Ireland.  Mexico gets to call itself Mexico, it doesn't need America in the title.  The UK gets to call itself the UK, it doesn't need France or Mainland Europe in the title. 

I like it that way.  Now if only I could persuade my fellow Irish men to also get rid of the sub heading 'European'  Whistle .  It's funny too that a geographical identity is often hijacked by politico Imperialists to strongly hint at ownership rights, so let's not be coy about why an Island's name is obviously mixed in with "propaganda in schools"... propaganda in schools everywhere, not just in the schools of the auld Emerald Isle.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that just because the Romans (or probably moreso the ancient Greeks) named the islands as a group and called them 'British' etc.... doesn't require a whole new generation thousands of years later to bow or curtsy to that ancient name.  It's better off that peoples name themselves rather than have it pressed upon them by remote and casual Mediterranean observers.

Now let's discuss the British West Indies, and there's a bunch of islands a LONG LONG way from "home", aren't they................ Whistle

The propaganda taught in schools applies equally to both sides of the border - travel a few miles and see the difference in text books.

Mexico can politically call itself whatever it wants, but it cannot force that choice on others when referring to it. Geographically, Mexico can be accurately described as part of the 'Americas' or 'Central America' whether they like it or not.

It is incredible that anyone from Ireland should consider the designation given to a country as not being "controversial, really". Nomenclature has caused little but controversy on both sides of the border. The term 'Ireland' can mean different things to different people - the Republic of Ireland, the Irish free state, Éire, Eire, Poblacht na h-Éireann, Erin, the Emerald Isle etc. and does it represent 26 or 32 counties? There are a million inhabitants of the six counties in the 'North of Ireland' / 'Northern Ireland', who were taught in school that the land they are living on is geographically part of the group of islands collectively know as the 'the British Isles'. When a neighbouring sovereign State denies that association, are they not being just as 'politico Imperialist' as those suggesting Ireland is part of the British Isles?

The BWI are close to the Dutch, French, Spanish and Portuguese West Indies, but apart from the Bermuda sevens aren't big into rugby - perhaps that discussion should be for the cricket board?

In fairness, the Government of Ireland - its official name as recognised by the UK and EU - says that British Isles is inappropriate as a description of the two countries of UK and Ireland.  And that has been accepted by the British government.   The Irish constitution still states that the name of the state is Éire or Ireland in the English language.  Republic of Ireland or Irish Republic is not the official name of the country.  

Pot Hale - All fair enough.

The point though is that those complaining about the inappropriateness of the possessive term 'British' in relation to a collection of islands are frequently dismissive of the inappropriateness of referring to Ireland as possessing 32 counties rather than 26. In rugby terms the 'British Lions' became the 'British and Irish' Lions, so in the interests of appropriateness should the Irish team become 'Ireland and Northern Ireland'!

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 5:35 pm

Why? Ireland describes the island of Ireland. Renaming Ireland southern Ireland and Northern Ireland would be idiotic when you can just call it Ireland.

You are comparing two fairly different things.

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 10:15 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Why? Ireland describes the island of Ireland. Renaming Ireland southern Ireland and Northern Ireland would be idiotic when you can just call it Ireland.

You are comparing two fairly different things.
Really? Suppose you had written:
The British Isles describes a collection of islands. Renaming the British Isles, Great Britain and Ireland would be idiotic when you can just call it the British Isles.

Spot the similarity?

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 11:32 am

No I dont at all. British Isles is an outdated innacurate term for a few reasons. It suggests Ireland is part of Britain which it clearly isnt. A fraction of the island is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain doesnt even usually refer to Northern Ireland.

It doesnt particularly bother me but your arguement makes no sense at all.



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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by rodders on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 1:44 pm

I often wonder if they get offended in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea when people call it North Korea.
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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 1:49 pm

rodders wrote:I often wonder if they get offended in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea when people call it North Korea.

Nah, it's only those south of the border that get offended!

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Re: Ireland Winning Tours of Australia 1967, 1979 AND 2018

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