New Zealand v England Test Series

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New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:22 am

The first test of a largely ignored series has started.

England 6/1 at the moment. Would you believe Alastair Cook is out nicking to slip? You would? Quite...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:25 am

6/2! Root bowled. You wouldn't even know the Ashes had finished.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:35 am

Magnificent from Boult with the pink ball. 16/3. All three for Boult.

England on the ropes early on.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:42 am

18/4. Southee this time. England entering humiliation territory.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:46 am

Just beautiful bowling as Stokes' stumps are dismantled with aplomb.

18/5. This test is over in the first hour.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:48 am

Wow. Rather a dramatic first 45 minutes Smile

What is the lowest England innings total against NZ , I wonder ?

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:49 am

Unbelievable... well actually maybe not. Poor England. A horror start.
Superb work from Boult and Southee.

Did you take up the 6/1, Duty?

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:51 am

Oh wow. 18/6. Bairstow brilliantly caught and bowled.

Well, this is a dark day for test cricket in England.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:51 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:Unbelievable... well actually maybe not. Poor England. A horror start.
Superb work from Boult and Southee.

Did you take up the 6/1, Duty?

Ah, when I said 6/1, I meant the score was 6/1 in the English sense! Not the odds on England winning (which are probably 600/1 now!).

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:52 am

I'm almost glad I can't actually watch this.

Six gone ? Good toss to win ?

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:55 am

alfie wrote:Wow.   Rather a dramatic first 45 minutes Smile

What is the lowest England innings total against NZ , I wonder ?

Lowest test score ever for England is 45 against Australia in the 19th century. Interestingly, England went on to win...

Lowest against New Zealand is 64 in 1978. England didn't win that one...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:58 am

alfie wrote:Wow.   Rather a dramatic first 45 minutes Smile

What is the lowest England innings total against NZ , I wonder ?

2nd innings in this match they scored 64... NZ only won by 72 runs after collapsing for 123 in their second dig.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/17130/scorecard/63203/new-zealand-vs-england-1st-test-england-tour-of-new-zealand-1977-78/

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:59 am

23/7. New records will be set.

These two are bowling well, but the English are looking as though they've never held a bat before.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:00 am

I take it the ball is doing a bit ? Might be best to declare - though as seven are now down that might not be necessary Smile

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:03 am

Duty281 wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:Unbelievable... well actually maybe not. Poor England. A horror start.
Superb work from Boult and Southee.

Did you take up the 6/1, Duty?

Ah, when I said 6/1, I meant the score was 6/1 in the English sense! Not the odds on England winning (which are probably 600/1 now!).

Oh of course. Silly me. Smile

I wonder how Anderson, Broad and co will fare under lights with the pink ball. Maybe they can return the favour and cause some trouble too.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:04 am

alfie wrote:I take it the ball is doing a bit ?  Might be best to declare - though as seven are now down that might not be necessary Smile

Swinging a bit, but nothing extreme. 

23/8! Moeen misses a full toss. Embarrassing. I predicted low scores, but not this low!

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:05 am

23/8 ? This is ridiculous...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:13 am

27/9 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least they passed the old NZ record low of 26...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:14 am

That is one of the most outstanding catches you will ever see. Phenomenal. 

27/9. England going to be bowled out within 90 minutes of the series starting!

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:19 am

Olly has been going on about the danger posed by Wagner...doesn't look as if he will even get a bowl...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:20 am

alfie wrote:Olly has been going on about the danger posed by Wagner...doesn't look as if he will even get a bowl...

Clever tactics by England then.  laughing

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:25 am

Wow, Overton has dragged England past the '50' mark.

The humiliation is not total.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:27 am

Overton to the rescue!

Not only past the old 45 ... but also the 47 which will stop the Australians getting too smug about this...Can they make it past 60 ?

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:35 am

58 all out.

Overton needs to open the batting.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:36 am

58. Quite a recovery...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:38 am

alfie wrote:Overton to the rescue!

Not only past the old 45 ... but also the 47 which will stop the Australians getting too smug about this...Can they make it past 60  ?

No chance of that, alfie. Smile

More worried about our blokes later on tonight... just have a feeling there will be some bowling fireworks too!

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 2:43 am

Trent Boult had his 5th wicket after 7 overs... after only the 13th over.
Must be close to some sort of quickest 5-fer record; however I know there were very low scores back in the early days too.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 3:05 am

This is woeful. Its more than selections thats rotten here, theres proven players failing to deliver even the basics.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 3:06 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
alfie wrote:Overton to the rescue!

Not only past the old 45 ... but also the 47 which will stop the Australians getting too smug about this...Can they make it past 60  ?

No chance of that, alfie. Smile

More worried about our blokes later on tonight... just have a feeling there will be some bowling fireworks too!

Well it does mean England fans won't be able to mention Trent Bridge 60 all out so often Smile

I hear the pitch at Newlands is going to be a bit slow though so might not be too many fireworks tonight. Unless Rabada explodes...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 3:25 am

It's been an incredibly long hot summer for England.

Given their selection dilemmas, I think they have done their best to try and establish a side and stick with it... come what may. That's what any team in  a similar situation would try to do. It's a very tough situation to be in - some experienced players who are sadly off form, trying to blood new batsmen and bowlers on an antipodean tour, playing other tournaments in between and still trying to keep it all afloat for this Test series.

On top of all of that; NZ, spearheaded by Boult and Southee simply had one of those days where everything turned to gold (or jade)  Smile ... they were just superb.

Any team would have struggled out there today. The margins for error are just so fine in these conditions and Boult/Southee with the ball in hand.

Guildford... I never liked Eden Park too. It hurts my eyes to look at that perimeter rope.
(although we did well there in cricket recently; in rugby... it's what... 32 years!) Horrible place. Smile

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 3:28 am

alfie wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:
alfie wrote:Overton to the rescue!

Not only past the old 45 ... but also the 47 which will stop the Australians getting too smug about this...Can they make it past 60  ?

No chance of that, alfie. Smile

More worried about our blokes later on tonight... just have a feeling there will be some bowling fireworks too!

Well it does mean England fans won't be able to mention Trent Bridge 60 all out so often  Smile

I hear the pitch at Newlands is going to be a bit slow though so might not be too many fireworks tonight.  Unless Rabada explodes...

I'd forgotten Trent Bridge. Whistle
As for the Newlands pitch reports... like political polls they can be hard to trust. Pitches seem so variable these days. I hope you're right though.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 3:46 am

Well I didn’t expect to wake upto to that score

Wtf happened?
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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 4:11 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Well I didn’t expect to wake upto to that score

Wtf happened?

All our worst nightmares , I think...

I'll let those who were watching rather than following with horrified fascination on text fill in the details for you Smile

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 7:06 am

My godfathers! What have I woken up to? Assuming it's not still a terrible dream, can someone please tell me what happened? Terrible batting, brilliant bowling, an unplayable pitch? All of them? It has to have been at least one. Thanks.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 7:09 am

alfie wrote:Olly has been going on about the danger posed by Wagner...doesn't look as if he will even get a bowl...

Clever from England actually. Avoid their main threat
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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 7:49 am

Home and watching now...see the bowlers have been unable to emulate their Kiwi counterparts but at least are keeping a lid on it.

But why on earth is Moeen bowling ?

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 8:19 am

Just got to see the wickets ...oh dear ! Was some excellent bowling - and catching - but really a lot of leaden-footed batting...
English batsmen are generally supposed to be able to handle the moving ball but that procession rather suggests they've lost the art . OK it's only one day and bad days (even really bad days !) do happen ; but the manner of the dismissals suggests they are in for a rough time in the rest of this series. And it won't get better at home unless Cook rediscovers his mojo because there just aren't any other top order bats around : I think Root at four is a must.

Lots of rain coming next couple of days so all is not lost but they'll need a big second innings...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 9:02 am

Alastair Cook has to be one close to facing the chop. Aside from two double hundreds(243 against Windies where we played them in a wintry day/night match in Birmingham and 243* on an atrocious Melbourne pitch) as a senior player he isn't giving Root any support. Last 20 matches averages about 40, without those double hundreds it mid 20s. Root is really great but he can't do all the batting on his own back.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 9:19 am

Cook does worry me. This pattern of occasional excellent innings punctuating a lot of low scores is common to a lot of the best players as they near the end of their careers.
It is still too early to say he's done - and heaven knows there is a dearth of potential replacements so we'd better hope he's not ! But runs in the remaining innings would be reassuring.
Root - whose failure today will only reinforce his dislike of batting at three - seems to be finding the twin pressures of captaincy and main batsman status a heavy load. He certainly does need support. I am not sure who is going to supply it at the moment ...
The much-vaunted late middle order flopped today . They've saved the day often enough ; but I'd argue that Stokes , Bairstow , Moeen were all a place higher than ideal on a day like this...guess Malan was too.
Disappointing and worrying : but essentially nothing we didn't already know about the weaknesses ...just emphasizes the need to find a couple of top order bats. Good job for the new selectors Smile

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 9:34 am

I think it's time we bite the bullet and introduce some youngsters from county cricket and give them an extended run. Hameed should be opening. Cook has played 156 Tests and it's plainly clear he's in decline. We can't have a senior player being so hot and cold.

Moeen Ali's Test career should also be coming to a close. It worked for a while. Slap a few runs at 8 and some average bowling. But he's been found out.

We need to determine what's an all rounder and what's a bits and pieces cricketer. Only Stokes is a true all rounder. Moeen, Woakes etc are not all rounders.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Just John on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 9:40 am

Not a surprise today’s collapse. Seen it all before. The side is appalling, which is mentally in pieces, post Ashes. Broad was grinning, and in awe of his own dismissal. Surprised he didn’t go over to Kane & celebrate with him. Beyond embarrassing

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 9:57 am

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:I think it's time we bite the bullet and introduce some youngsters from county cricket and give them an extended run. Hameed should be opening. Cook has played 156 Tests and it's plainly clear he's in decline. We can't have a senior player being so hot and cold.

Moeen Ali's Test career should also be coming to a close. It worked for a while. Slap a few runs at 8 and some average bowling. But he's been found out.

We need to determine what's an all rounder and what's a bits and pieces cricketer. Only Stokes is a true all rounder. Moeen, Woakes etc are not all rounders.

Easy to say "bring in some young players" ...harder to find some good enough. They have tried a few. Also easier to drop players than replace them.

I'd like to see Hameed opening (though with Cook , for now , rather than in place of) : and had he not been injured I fancy he might be. Truth is though he's hardly made a run at any level since recovering and throwing him back in right now would be a huge leap of faith. I'm hopeful he will start the summer well and take his place in the team.

Moeen most certainly is an all rounder. The question is actually whether he is good enough. On recent form , no. But he was starring a few months back ...

I don't pick teams in the middle of Test Matches anyway. But yes , there will be a lot of discussion after this tour . The coaching might get some attention too.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by jimbohammers on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 10:06 am

Disappointed not to see Mark Wood in the team. Gives us something extra IMO

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 10:16 am

alfie wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:I think it's time we bite the bullet and introduce some youngsters from county cricket and give them an extended run. Hameed should be opening. Cook has played 156 Tests and it's plainly clear he's in decline. We can't have a senior player being so hot and cold.

Moeen Ali's Test career should also be coming to a close. It worked for a while. Slap a few runs at 8 and some average bowling. But he's been found out.

We need to determine what's an all rounder and what's a bits and pieces cricketer. Only Stokes is a true all rounder. Moeen, Woakes etc are not all rounders.

Easy to say "bring in some young players" ...harder to find some good enough. They have tried a few.  Also easier to drop players than replace them.

I'd like to see Hameed opening (though with Cook , for now , rather than in place of) : and had he not been injured I fancy he might be. Truth is though he's hardly made a run at any level since recovering and throwing him back in right now would be a huge leap of faith. I'm hopeful he will start the summer well and take his place in the team.

Moeen most certainly is an all rounder. The question is actually whether he is good enough. On recent form , no. But he was starring a few months back ...

I don't pick teams in the middle of Test Matches anyway.  But yes , there will be a lot of discussion after this tour .  The coaching might get some attention too.
I totally understand the point regarding picking younger players. But cast your mind back when Duncan Fletcher selected Vaughan and Trescothick. Both had very modest first class careers, but Fletcher backed them. Granted Hameed is battling post that savage hand injury, but he seems a very mentally strong boy. Also we recently saw Australian glove man Tim Paine return after suffering a similar injury.

I'm not saying drop Cook out of spite. I think young Joe needs to mould his side. We are currently playing very badly and it's the correct time to plan for the next 12-18 months-Ashes will be upon us soon.

The Hameed's, Livingstone's, Leach's need exposure before running into the old enemy

I don't see Moeen as a viable option considering we go to Sri Lanka next winter. And home matches against Pakistan and India aren't going to help Moeen' bowling muvh

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 10:20 am

And I wake up to see no English fightback has happened.

More confusingly, 2/9 is still available on New Zealand winning. This is in spite of the fact that they should be 1/100!

And those English dismissals don’t look any better in the morning light.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by jimbohammers on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 10:22 am

Duty281 wrote:And I wake up to see no English fightback has happened.

More confusingly, 2/9 is still available on New Zealand winning. This is in spite of the fact that they should be 1/100!

And those English dismissals don’t look any better in the morning light.

There is some rain forecasted i believe, Duty

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 11:07 am

What a nightmare day for England.

I would put it down to a mix of brilliant bowling and pathetic batting without technique, footwork, guile or substance. I think one has to look to the management now as results and players form have been disappointing now for a little too long.

New Zealand in total control and all but 1-0 up.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 11:19 am

jimbohammers wrote:
Duty281 wrote:And I wake up to see no English fightback has happened.

More confusingly, 2/9 is still available on New Zealand winning. This is in spite of the fact that they should be 1/100!

And those English dismissals don’t look any better in the morning light.

There is some rain forecasted i believe, Duty

Ah, ok. Even so, it will take a heck of a lot of rain for England to escape this one! The test could be done inside three days if there are no interruptions.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 12:23 pm

Swann was going bananas over anyone attacking Bayliss. Kept saying it was all the players’ fault, but they are coached and managed by someone and they’re not getting results.

However, a lot of people are right to say that who is getting results abroad?

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 12:50 pm

Not wanting to take anything away from Boult and Southee but pretty pathetic by England.


Benjamin Franklin wrote:By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.

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