New Zealand v England Test Series

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New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Thu 22 Mar 2018, 1:22 am

First topic message reminder :

The first test of a largely ignored series has started.

England 6/1 at the moment. Would you believe Alastair Cook is out nicking to slip? You would? Quite...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Fri 30 Mar 2018, 11:47 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Jimmy Anderson will retire one day and he won't have been cherished enough

Who doesn't cherish that beautiful man?

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 30 Mar 2018, 11:48 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Jimmy Anderson will retire one day and he won't have been cherished enough

Dread how long it’ll take us to replace him!
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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 30 Mar 2018, 11:49 pm

An excellent innings from Bairstow although I thought its ending was sloppy and didn't do it justice. Given the field set, that shot was always likely to give a catch.

A more than useful contribution from Leach in support. Always like that sort of thing.

Anyway, a cracking start by England with the ball as Broad gets Latham caught behind. For now at least, 307 not looking too shoddy.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 30 Mar 2018, 11:49 pm

Leach throws right handed and bowls left handed.

I might have to reverse my opinion of him based on this. What Scenes
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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Fri 30 Mar 2018, 11:55 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I was debating the “happier” point rather than the position. It’s in interesting balance but I’d agree New Zealand on top as I’m not sure anyone is worried about competing against a low 300 score (except England!)

I’m just unsure they’ll have got that collective boost from this than a teammmight usually. I get the feeling they want to go home

It is an interesting balance I agree. Because yes, they probably do fancy getting home (less so those who have already had a break during the ODIs , perhaps ?) : but I think they will still have taken a huge lift from yesterday's fight back . Only four more days to play and they'll surely want to finish on a high .

I am no believer in "momentum" - an overused cliche in my book : but I reckon they'll have taken the field this morning with a bit more spring in their steps .(That early wicket won't hurt either !)

Of course if NZ really settle in the mental fatigue might come back...but that's for a lot later....

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:00 am

Raval has looked dodgy and he's now gone too! 14/2, Jimmy strikes

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:00 am

guildfordbat wrote:An excellent innings from Bairstow although I thought its ending was sloppy and didn't do it justice. Given the field set, that shot was always likely to give a catch.

A more than useful contribution from Leach in support. Always like that sort of thing.

Anyway, a cracking start by England with the ball as Broad gets Latham caught behind. For now at least, 307 not looking too shoddy.

As I alluded to above : In fact I think Bairstow got out similarly once during the Ashes , in a similar situation. He ought to have kept playing normally.

Seems a bit unfair to be critical after his innings saving effort but as you say it doesn't do the whole innings justice...

Anderson snares the other opener ! England enjoying the movement as much a Boult did yesterday...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:01 am

England in danger of getting into the ascendancy!

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:04 am

Think Jimmy has been robbed there of an absolute beauty - I don't care about the rules, it was a pearler.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by JDizzle on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:06 am

Haha, Erasmus has definitely given that not out cause he thinks he's hit it. It just looked stone dead!

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by jimbohammers on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:06 am

Anyone else who can't stand Michael Atherton? Talks like he was the best batsman ever

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:07 am

Stokes has got to be fit enough to bowl a few (and I'm not sure how he can't be fit enough to bowl bursts of even 3)

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by JDizzle on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:07 am

JDizzle wrote:Haha, Erasmus has definitely given that not out cause he thinks he's hit it. It just looked stone dead!

All credit to Franklin in the studio as well. Suggested that England might look at how Jimmy got KW in the first test, and look to go straighter to him, and so close to paying off.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:07 am

Review : this looks out ? No : impact umpires call ? Didn't look that way to me ...reckon Williamson is lucky to have survived that !

All happening at the moment...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by jimbohammers on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:12 am

Broad and Anderson have started very well here, need Williamson early though

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:16 am

Broad gets another! Fuller length and now he doesn't look like retiring. Taylor gone!

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:17 am

alfie wrote:Review : this looks out ? No : impact umpires call ?  Didn't look that way to me ...reckon Williamson is lucky to have survived that !

All happening at the moment...

I don't think you get the same commentary as us, Alfie. The Sky guys (Lloyd and Atherton) thought the review was a complete waste when it was first made as they were convinced Williamson had hit the ball. They were then very surprised to see on review that he didn't. They didn't go on about it too much but it was pretty clear that their view was that Erasmus had turned down the appeal for the same reason as them and not because of impact.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:17 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Stokes has got to be fit enough to bowl a few (and I'm not sure how he can't be fit enough to bowl bursts of even 3)

Hope you are right there , Dolph. Suspect England do believe he will in view of the fact that they went with just the four bowlers.

Might not be needed ! As Broad snares Taylor for just two...NZ crumbling like ... England in Auckland ?

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:18 am

And this is why pre series it was called an even contest...England well on top in conditions that suit them and NZ’s big guns bar Williamson back in the hutch
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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:21 am

All this talk of bringing Wood in to bowl pace and Broad is probably gonna have outdo him on the speed gun from nowhere Laugh
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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Duty281 on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:24 am

*Key partnership klaxon*

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:25 am

Those first innings totals against England abroad are a bit mind blowing when presented plainly like that.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:29 am

It's four! Broad is on fire, NZ are playing like England, Nicholls gone for 0

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:29 am

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:Review : this looks out ? No : impact umpires call ?  Didn't look that way to me ...reckon Williamson is lucky to have survived that !

All happening at the moment...

I don't think you get the same commentary as us, Alfie. The Sky guys (Lloyd and Atherton) thought the review was a complete waste when it was first made as they were convinced Williamson had hit the ball. They were then very surprised to see on review that he didn't. They didn't go on about it too much but it was pretty clear that their view was that Erasmus had turned down the appeal for the same reason as them and not because of impact.

No we do get Lloyd and Athers ... I agree that the appeal was probably denied originally for a suspected edge . But I really thought , even on slo-mo replay , that it had hit him in line . It was a very close thing ! Of course it doesn't matter under the rules but I strongly suspect Erasmus would have raised the finger had he not thought an edge was involved...in which case the "out" would have stayed.
Not a fan of tight lbw reviews but reckon that was a fair one to try. At least they don't lose it...

Another review now : and this is out !

Three for Broad

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:42 am

Broad looks a different bowler today. In truth he has always been a bit "hot and cold" , in contrast to the consistency of Anderson ; but it seems so long since he's had one of his destructive spells that one feared he might have lost his mojo completely.

Could it be that with his poor returns and fading batting , and the gutsy batting of Wood and Leach yesterday , he felt his place was now under serious threat ? And that this concern has inspired him to bowl with the freedom of a man with nothing to lose ?
He certainly looks more relaxed today... I've felt he's been a bit "tight" in his action recently : presumably worrying over results and over thinking things. Easy to do...

Or it could just be he got lucky with the early scalp and has kicked on from there Smile

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:53 am

Williamson still there for NZ so they are hanging in the game...just about. And (unless Stokes can bowl) Root has to juggle just three pace men.
But you'd think if they can break this stand England will be set for a big lead on first innings.

This situation is going to be a bit of a test for Root's so far rather - arguably - uninspiring captaincy. He needs to make sure he doesn't allow the pressure to dissipate as has tended to do in the past.

In fairness he hasn't always had the in form bowlers to make pressure an easy thing to maintain ! But I'm thinking of things like taking Anderson off at the wrong time in Brisbane , not utilizing Stokes against West Indies back home on the last day...

Got to go for the jugular when you can.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:58 am

Leach to bowl an over before lunch...and it's quite a tidy one. No drama maiden.

32/4. Good morning for England.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 1:09 am

alfie wrote:Leach to bowl an over before lunch...and it's quite a tidy one. No drama maiden.

32/4. Good morning for England.

Predictable but sensible for Root to give Leach an over just before lunch. Predictably again in the circumstances, it was batted out by Watling for a maiden. Tidy and largely accurate enough from Leach for him to enjoy his lunch more and when he bowls again - I doubt it'll be immediately after lunch - to do so with further confidence.

Anyway, as Alfie says with some understatement, a good morning for England.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 3:25 am

Apologies to anyone who later misses my running commentary on the game Smile
Had to go out for a while. And while I've been gone it seems an aggressive CDG has combined with Watling to get the NZ innings - somewhat - back on track. Though England will be delighted that they got the dangerous Williamson cheaply after lunch.
70 run stand has it at 106/5 in 41 overs. And I see England are resorting to bowling short to CDG with three men out ...

Not sure I like that.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 3:39 am

Leach bowling quite nicely. Couple have ripped past the edge , and generally keeping the lid on.
Not so Root who just came on and bowled an over of rubbish - rightfully whacked around...so back to Wood as tea is nigh...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 3:51 am

Wood with the short ball attack...but only at about 130 . No effect.

123/5 at tea.

So far no evidence that the addition of Wood has provided much extra bite to the England pace attack : five wickets all fallen to the Old Firm.
Wood seems to have been a bit fixed on banging it in short - a la Wagner. I'd like to see him vary it a bit more.

England still on top but that was a pretty good session for NZ from a dire position.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 4:17 am

England continuing with the short ball attack after tea. Funny field - slip , leg slip , (very) close silly point and a bat pad for Wood. Rather see that than the three leg side deep catchers...

Leach working away at the other end so this is a chance to see whether the new back up team can effect a break while the two veterans are resting. Not that there is a lot in the pitch to assist now the ball is getting older.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 4:33 am

Watling joins his partner with his fifty as he slog sweeps Leach for six.

Partnership worth 110 now and England could do with some magic.
Doesn't look as though Stokes is going to bowl so these last five wickets may require quite a bit of work from the four bowlers at Root's disposal. Long time to the second new ball...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 4:53 am

Anderson back for Wood ...but no swing now , and Watling greets him with two lovely driven fours - 1 straight , one cover .
At 162/5 NZ whittling away the England advantage quite quickly .

One ball beats the outside edge now ; but generally these two are looking pretty secure. Leach is accurate enough but not really creating any chances...beginning to wonder where another wicket might come from ...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 4:55 am

Contrary to earlier post I see Stokes warming up ... Exchanges looks and nods with Root so it appears he's going to have a go.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 5:08 am

Stokes coming on now...at a good time , I think , after successive maidens have quietened things down...

And immediately he is up for a caught behind ! Not out ...but reviewed : and I think this might actually be lbw ...no : just over. But an encouraging start for Stokes. He does tend to make things happen Smile


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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 5:11 am

Good first over : he hit 140 which is more than we've seen from the others.

Still waiting for that breakthrough ; and the dark clouds are gathering overhead.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 5:23 am

Drinks now , at 175/5.

And it's been a long time between drinks for England ...46 overs and 139 runs , in fact.

That same old problem of not being able to make anything happen once the new ball attack is done. Anderson is bowling a testing spell - and first up after drinks he gets an edge...but it doesn't quite carry to Bairstow.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 5:37 am

Bit of a stalemate at present : string of maidens from Anderson , bowling to a packed off side field...bit of life from Stokes but he's off now after a brief go - Wood back. 178/5

Might be worth a bit of Malan ? No ...Stuart Broad is back.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 5:42 am

Meanwhile , the England women have an early wicket in the t20 final...Australia 10/1 after two overs.

And with that (inspired ?) Stuart Broad gets CDG ! Loose drive , edge , YJB holds and rejoices...

Needed that .

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 5:45 am

Broad is having a fine day . Shakes up new man Southee with a short one ...

Wonder if Wood can join in now ? So far every wicket in the match has gone to the same four bowlers.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 5:52 am

It seems drying up the runs succeeded in frustrating CDG out...he really doesn't like being tied down.
Was a very valuable innings for NZ ; 72 after coming in at a perilous 36/5. But it has left Watling and the bowlers with a lot to do...

Broad still finding edges ; again not carrying to slip. New ball in eight.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 6:03 am

Since losing Beth Mooney to the first ball of the match , the Aussie women have been motoring...52/1 off six !

Wood still searching for a victim here ...still mostly hammering the middle of the pitch. Quicker in this spell though ...getting high 130s.

Southee cops one on the arm - at least Wood is making his mark in that respect Smile

Meanwhile Gunn has removed Gardner and Healy ...Australia 71/3

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 6:11 am

Off for the light. NZ hanging in at 192/6.

England might not be too sorry to go off. New ball due in five ; and this will give Anderson and Broad a night to rest. Changing the back up bowlers hasn't (yet) made any difference to the reliance on the two old hands for taking wickets...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 9:05 am

Seems like the one pitch this winter that would’ve properly suited Woakes/Overton’s bowling they’ve been dropped for...
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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 10:15 am

Watling - ''the second wicketkeeper in this Test to haul his team off the canvas'' - Andrew Miller, cricinfo. clap clap for the innings and the description.

Valuable innings from CDG as well with some uncharacteristic restraint.

Anderson and Broad once more leading the way with the ball and this time the latter being the one in front. Wood demonstrated some fitness which was my major concern - however, with apologies for sounding a bit churlish, it will need to be maintained and result in wickets sooner than later. My jury is out on Leach which is probably better than he might have expected! An economical enough return and some credit to him for that. However, we shouldn't get too excited given New Zealand had a major rebuilding job to do throughout the time he was bowling. There was no way they could risk a ''let's see if he crumbles like Kerrigan did against those cheats'' approach.

Meanwhile, Root showed - albeit very briefly - why I remain so unconvinced that he and and another one or two part-timers can form together to be an adequate fifth bowler. Test bowlers need to be good enough to bowl at Test batsmen.

Finally, further praise for Bairstow. Unnoticed but 4 straightforward catches pouched and no byes conceded. Contrary to my thoughts not so long ago, he's become a proper and reliable keeper. A New Zealander (Ian Smith?) said on Sky that some players when given dual responsibility perform each role better - interesting thought and worth considering if the clamour increases for him to play only as a batter.


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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by alfie on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 1:43 pm

Hi guildford...Agree re Bairstow. I think the regular calls for YJB to go up the order are frankly nuts. Why break the bit that is working ? He clearly enjoys the role of keeper and number seven ; can rescue an innings or apply the blowtorch...very much in the Gilchrist mode.
Yes he might do a job at four ( or three ? I doubt it it) but the risk is he'd be another not quite good enough at the top order : I personally don't see his technique as tight enough for top order in Tests though of course I could be wrong. I just question whether the risk is worth the (potential ) reward of messing with the spot...

Fifth bowler is down to a fit Stokes , no question. Until then Root etc will have to be a (poor) substitute. No alternative so it is what it is.

Also agree jury remains out on Wood the bowler .(And Leach) Right now a hopefully fit TRJ is still in my preferred XI for the summer...

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 3:12 pm

alfie wrote:Hi guildford...Agree re Bairstow.  I think the regular calls for YJB to go up the order are frankly nuts.  Why break the bit that is working ?  He clearly enjoys the role of keeper and number seven ; can rescue an innings or apply the blowtorch...very much in the Gilchrist mode.
Yes he might do a job at four ( or three ? I doubt it it) but the risk is he'd be another not quite good enough at the top order : I personally don't see his technique as tight enough for top order in Tests though of course I could be wrong.  I just question whether the risk is worth the (potential ) reward of messing with the spot...

Fifth bowler is down to a fit Stokes , no question. Until then Root etc will have to be a (poor) substitute.  No alternative so it is what it is.


Also agree jury remains out on Wood the bowler .(And Leach)  Right now a hopefully fit TRJ is still in my preferred XI for the summer...

Thanks for the post as a whole, Alfie.

As regards the highlighted wording - I should have been clearer. With Stokes semi-crocked, I accept the difficulties and limitations for the bowling that causes. What I was most meaning was that we should not go into a Test - as some appeared to suggest - looking to somehow manufacture a Test spinner as the match goes on through a combo of 2 or 3 part-time slowies. Assuming we believe we need a spinner for any particular Test, we need to pick someone who we believe is a proper pick for that role.

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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by KP_fan on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 4:04 pm

--First of all good to see Eng go in with a positive team composition which means

a) Pick your top-3 wicket taking seamers + your most potent spinner & a bowling all rounder.....to have a 5 man attack

b) stay away from wanting to give cushion to the main bowlers by having a 6th a/ 7th bowler
AND stop picking bowlers for their perceived batting strengths

--Eng's top order is still leaden feet....Root, Cook, Malan & Stoneman all fell either playing down wrong line or not moving feet appropriately

The pitch has more bounce then it originally appears& hence many a DRS reviews found bowling going over
and enough seam movement....and outfield a bit slow

--300 is the par score that Bairstow through a very fine inning got them there with help from Leach / wood.....although NZ bowled too short to him letting him pull / force through on side
Full, very full on middle and off & coming in deliveries will always test Bairstow
Ish Sodhi is a very medicore bowler.....Astle was better and where is Santner?

--Unlike English batsmen's leaden feet.... the kiwis top order was plucked out by good bowling from anderson and broad

In their latter spells these 2 lacked the pace and bite
and Wood...while he had pace most time...he was too short...letting Grandhomme and Watlig do the lower order recovery...juts like Eng

Leach looked OK.....saw him get some drift....need to see an extended spell to draw more firm impressions of him....hopefully in more helpful 2nd inning conditions

--Eng are ahead in the game and have new ball due in 6 overs......
Southee can hit and Watlig has to bat resourcefully with the tail.....to get them to 250 minimum and anything beyond would be bonus
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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

Post by Jetty on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 6:43 pm

JDizzle wrote:
JDizzle wrote:Haha, Erasmus has definitely given that not out cause he thinks he's hit it. It just looked stone dead!

All credit to Franklin in the studio as well. Suggested that England might look at how Jimmy got KW in the first test, and look to go straighter to him, and so close to paying off.

In the first Test Anderson got Williamson out due to the near run out the ball before with Nicholls taking a quick single. Williamson will have been still thinking about the run out. It's little lapses of concentration. Also note that quite a lot of wickets are taken just before a break. Last over before lunch, tea or stumps or after a drinks break.


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Re: New Zealand v England Test Series

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