Ball tampering fall out

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Ball tampering fall out

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 12:31 am

Being reported by the Australian press that head coach has tendered his resignation. For someone who had no knowledge of the ball tampering, funny how he jumps just as cricket Australia CEO rocks up in South Africa. Lehmann is a coward and true justification would be a lifetime ban.

Nathaniel Jacobs

Posts : 570
Join date : 2016-12-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by alfie on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 12:38 am

Jumping before the push.

Good though. Helps to move the clean out process along. Gillespie's phone might be busy...

alfie

Posts : 9188
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 1:05 am

Although I very much doubt he will, I hope Lehmann comes clean about what went on and for how long including the involvement of himself and all others. Unfortunately, I suspect he will try to hide behind a wide and unclear press release, something like ''ultimately taking responsibility for what happened on my watch'' without any specific details.

Unless Lehmann is resigning for noble reasons and was unaware of what was happening on the pitch (and can anyone seriously believe that?!), his resignation causes Smith's reputation to plummet even further given Smith's assurance that ''the coach didn't know''.

I've always had a strong liking for Dizzy and, in particular, his openness since I saw him flummox Colville on Sky. Colville asked him a question about a certain player. Unlike idiots such as Cork and Butcher who Colville used to regularly wheel out to give rambling responses on matters they knew nothing about, Dizzy simply replied, ''I don't know him''.

I found his honesty and the self-assurance to give it refreshing. Australia could probably do with some of that now.

guildfordbat

Posts : 11913
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by alfie on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:11 am

Actually I hear Langer might be first up as replacement...

alfie

Posts : 9188
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 8:09 am

Something that would have to be unscrambled as regards any appointment of Dizzy would be his new contract at Sussex. Even if Sussex didn't try to block his path, he might feel committed to them now (particularly having presumably made the necessary family arrangements) and in any case might prefer a working life there to what he would be needing to deal with in Australia at the present time.

guildfordbat

Posts : 11913
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 8:21 am

guildfordbat wrote:Something that would have to be unscrambled as regards any appointment of Dizzy would be his new contract at Sussex. Even if Sussex didn't try to block his path, he might feel committed to them now (particularly having presumably made the necessary family arrangements) and in any case might prefer a working life there to what he would be needing to deal with in Australia at the present time.

Yes I would say the new Australian coach will be a position hard to fill considering the state they will be walking into. Deep divisions and mis-trusts, disarray and disbelief. This has been a huge incident that has shattered the sport in Australia so it will take a massive job to clear out the trash and work to regain confidence within the players and rebuild trust in the team in Australia and around the world. What coach would want that job?
avatar
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 17280
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 49
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Duty281 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 12:54 pm

Looks like the fire is being turned on Warner today.

Reports circulating that he’ll never play for his country again.

Duty281

Posts : 17257
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 22
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by eirebilly on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 1:04 pm

I really do not want to kick Australia when they are down but surely ball tampering is akin to match fixing, being that it is done to influence the result of a game?

If it were to be judged like that the surely some of the Australian team (Leadership group) should be facing lengthy bans from the game?
avatar
eirebilly

Posts : 23375
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 47
Location : Holland

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 1:50 pm

eirebilly wrote:I really do not want to kick Australia when they are down but surely ball tampering is akin to match fixing, being that it is done to influence the result of a game?

If it were to be judged like that the surely some of the Australian team (Leadership group) should be facing lengthy bans from the game?

Though ICC has acted as per their rules, but all of the leadership group must be banned for atleast one year from all form of the game and if they return after that no important position like captain or vice captain should be given to them.

For Bancroft I will advice to be lenient towards him. He is a young lad and has a promising career ahead. He might have been forced by by the Leadership Group to do the act. A ban of a match or two will be sufficient for him.

Regarding Lehman, though Smith denied his involvement in the cheating but his message to Handscomb and then soon the later's meeting with bancroft and Bancroft's act of hiding the tape shows that he was also involved. He should be thrown out of the cricketing world itself.
avatar
subhranshu.kumar.5

Posts : 602
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 26
Location : Dhanbad, India

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by JDizzle on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 2:43 pm

eirebilly wrote:I really do not want to kick Australia when they are down but surely ball tampering is akin to match fixing, being that it is done to influence the result of a game?

If it were to be judged like that the surely some of the Australian team (Leadership group) should be facing lengthy bans from the game?

I don’t see much of a link between ball tampering and match fixing to be honest. One is a criminal offence is most countries, the other is a Level 2 offence on the ICC Code of Conduct!

Even if you did want to make that leap, cheating to try to win is very different to cheating to lose IMO.


JDizzle

Posts : 4577
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 4:56 pm

Cricket Australia announcement due at 6pm U.K. Time. But jumping in Warner has been fired and will never play for Australia again. Steven Smith 1 year suspension. Lehmann obliviously has gone.

Renshaw, Burns and Bailly on route to South Africa

Nathaniel Jacobs

Posts : 570
Join date : 2016-12-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Marky on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:00 pm

I'm sure David Warner will be gutted not to be picked anymore by Australia and instead earn millions playing T20 around the world. That'll really teach him.

Marky

Posts : 27019
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 31
Location : Crawley, West Sussex

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:05 pm

Marky wrote:I'm sure David Warner will be gutted not to be picked anymore by Australia and instead earn millions playing T20 around the world. That'll really teach him.
He can't play in the mega league(ipl) without clearance from the Australian board. No way near as much money in the other leagues

Nathaniel Jacobs

Posts : 570
Join date : 2016-12-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:20 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Cricket Australia announcement due at 6pm U.K. Time. But jumping in Warner has been fired and will never play for Australia again. Steven Smith 1 year suspension. Lehmann obliviously has gone.

Renshaw, Burns and Bailly on route to South Africa

That seems a bit lop-sided. After all the final say would have been with the skipper not Warner. I would say if that is going to be the punishment then I'd like to know why the differeing lengths in bans?
avatar
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 17280
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 49
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:32 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Cricket Australia announcement due at 6pm U.K. Time. But jumping in Warner has been fired and will never play for Australia again. Steven Smith 1 year suspension. Lehmann obliviously has gone.

Renshaw, Burns and Bailly on route to South Africa

That seems a bit lop-sided. After all the final say would have been with the skipper not Warner. I would say if that is going to be the punishment then I'd like to know why the differeing lengths in bans?
Again only rumours but it’s suggested that Warner was the instigator and his childhood buddy Smith covered for him. If true Warner has offended once to offer, he’s uncontrollable and must go. Let’s not forget this idiot once assaulted our Joe as well

Steven Smith has a career of legendary proportions but being stupid has tarnished him massively. A 12 month suspension would allow him to quietly rebuild his shattered reputation.

Nathaniel Jacobs

Posts : 570
Join date : 2016-12-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Marky on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:39 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
Marky wrote:I'm sure David Warner will be gutted not to be picked anymore by Australia and instead earn millions playing T20 around the world. That'll really teach him.
He can't play in the mega league(ipl) without clearance from the Australian board. No way near as much money in the other leagues

If they sack him they can't stop him surely.

Marky

Posts : 27019
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 31
Location : Crawley, West Sussex

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 5:44 pm

Marky wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
Marky wrote:I'm sure David Warner will be gutted not to be picked anymore by Australia and instead earn millions playing T20 around the world. That'll really teach him.
He can't play in the mega league(ipl) without clearance from the Australian board. No way near as much money in the other leagues

If they sack him they can't stop him surely.
The IPL has struggled with corruption I don’t see any of the franchises sticking their necks out for Warner tbh.

Nathaniel Jacobs

Posts : 570
Join date : 2016-12-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 6:32 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
Marky wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
Marky wrote:I'm sure David Warner will be gutted not to be picked anymore by Australia and instead earn millions playing T20 around the world. That'll really teach him.
He can't play in the mega league(ipl) without clearance from the Australian board. No way near as much money in the other leagues

If they sack him they can't stop him surely.
The IPL has struggled with corruption I don’t see any of the franchises sticking their necks out for Warner tbh.

This is the reason I don't watch the item number of cricket i.e. The IPL. I think most of the matches are fixed though unnoticed.
avatar
subhranshu.kumar.5

Posts : 602
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 26
Location : Dhanbad, India

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 6:38 pm

Sorry but TV footage is clear. How Lehmann remains in a job is beyond me.
avatar
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 17280
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 49
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by msp83 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 6:46 pm

Lehmann apparently didn't know anything!! He's to stay on, Smith,Warner and Bancroft send home!

msp83

Posts : 13460
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by msp83 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 6:48 pm

Lehmann staying on is just ludicrous!!! He's the one to lead Australia into a new cricketing culture? Good luck to that!!

msp83

Posts : 13460
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 6:52 pm

Seems like Tim Paine will be the 46th Captain of Australia. The 33 year cricketer is only 12 test matches old and has an average of 30 in 100 first class matches. Seems like the tradition of the one of the best batsman being the captain is broken.
avatar
subhranshu.kumar.5

Posts : 602
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 26
Location : Dhanbad, India

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 6:52 pm

And what of this 'Leadership Group' Smith referred to who the idea was discussed with. A group surely can't consist of two and surely Bancroft cannot have been on that after only eight tests.
avatar
CaledonianCraig

Posts : 17280
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 49
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 7:06 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:And what of this 'Leadership Group' Smith referred to who the idea was discussed with. A group surely can't consist of two and surely Bancroft cannot have been on that after only eight tests.

I think Lyon, Starc, Warner, Smith are the torch bearer of the Leadership Group. May be other also, but the message from wireless to Handscomb also put him in the radar of being involved.
avatar
subhranshu.kumar.5

Posts : 602
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 26
Location : Dhanbad, India

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by GSC on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 8:22 pm

Not sure Sutherland won't live to regret that. Seems like a whitewash, no way Lehmann isn't culpable and only 3 guys planned it.

Also interestingly, apparently the rest of the Aus team think Warner is a pr*** as much as the rest of the world does. Nobody sticking their neck out for him
avatar
GSC

Posts : 38166
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 26
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by JDizzle on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 8:28 pm

With Lehmann leaving next year anyway, he’d be the one I’d be throwing under the bus!

JDizzle

Posts : 4577
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 10:01 pm

Absolutely bizarre outcome from that James Sutherland press conference. Steven Smith proclaimed that his 'leadership group' was all in on it. Yet Starc, Hazlewood and Lyon somehow come away scot-free.

How Lehmann conned his way out of any punishment is ludicrous. Was it my imagination that he was on the walkie talkie telling Handscombe to relay a message to Bancroft?

Anyhow find it funny Smith questioned Maxwell's abilities for Test cricket. Some nonsense about 'training smart'. I guess maxwell will have the last laugh

Also no one from the smith inner circle was considered for captaincy. So the only options where Paine, Cummins and Marsh. Paine was earmarked as a future captain long before his career was destroyed by numerous injuries

Nathaniel Jacobs

Posts : 570
Join date : 2016-12-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by GSC on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 10:40 pm

Starc and Hazlewood kicked off about being implicated apparently
avatar
GSC

Posts : 38166
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 26
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 10:48 pm

I think in Smith's case it's very sad for Test cricket. Attendances are waning you just have to see the appalling crowds in South Africa and New Zealand, top teams playing and near empty stadiums. Steven Smith(is statistically) the greatest batsman of the modern era but it's unlikely he'll be seen again for an extended period.

Nathaniel Jacobs

Posts : 570
Join date : 2016-12-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by alfie on Tue 27 Mar 2018, 11:48 pm

I think this action is "for now" ... there is one more match to play. I see comments there will be further investigation back in Australia . As there must be ; and I will be astonished if Lehmann's tenure survives that .

As to other players' involvement - who knows ? Michael Clarke dropping strong hints he doesn't believe it could have been limited to the three named (though he is a bit of a stirrer at present ) and I'm not sure that will be widely accepted by the public whatever the actual truth.

Lawyers may be out in force and I am loath to speculate too much. But my best guess is that Warner is finished (Jim Maxwell saying he seems to be on the outer with the other team members now) , Bancroft will have a battle to get back ( I am not sure he is actually outstanding enough as a player to do so but time will tell) , Lehmann will be leaving early and Smith will be suspended for a significant period - and won't return to the captaincy. More than that I can't even begin to guess.

Going forward I think the whole culture of the team needs addressing and how that is done will show whether the current Cricket authorities are competent for their jobs...I don't think they all are and there will be a lot of pressure from outside for big changes in the back office. Still has a long way to run...

alfie

Posts : 9188
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 8:40 am

Alfie - I desperately hope you are right about the actions taken only being ''for now''. It did strike me as a poor attempt at a whitewash. If Lehmann is not to be at the least temporarily suspended whilst investigations continue, a prompt and clear explanation needs to be given by Cricket Australia as to what that phone call was about.

guildfordbat

Posts : 11913
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 9:39 am

Punishments have been announced
Smith 12 month suspension
Warner 12 month suspension
Bamcroft 9 month suspension

Bamcroft will available for the India tour of Australia. Smith and Warner free to play Ashes and world cup

Nathaniel Jacobs

Posts : 570
Join date : 2016-12-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by KP_fan on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 9:42 am

--Smith & Warner banned for 12 months....fair enough
--Bancroft for 9 months....a bit unfair given his stature as a new-comer junior, 2 or 3 test ban would have sufficed)
--Lehmann it seems will go scot-free....not fair

I suspect Lehmann indicated to CA that he will hide behind lack of direct legal evidence as his argument towards his innocence...and should they still take an action, he will sue them

So CA was forced to spare him

But it also seems inevitable that they will dump him as a coach....probably immediately as its well within their powers & they don't need a legal evidence for it
avatar
KP_fan

Posts : 6606
Join date : 2012-07-27

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 10:15 am

Warners position with the Ashes will be difficult after the revelations about sugar.
Id expected them to try and pin more of it on him tbh, hes not esxactly popular with some of the board already and his behavioural record is awful.

Gooseberry

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by hopeforthebest on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 10:17 am

"There are three of them and Lehmann"

al a George Smiley in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy.

hopeforthebest

Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by GSC on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 10:27 am

By all accounts nobody within the team is pushing for Warner to return after this.
avatar
GSC

Posts : 38166
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 26
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Born Slippy on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 10:30 am

I think it would be difficult for CA to do anything directly to Lehmann when Smith specifically said he was not involved. The walkie talkie looks bad but he might say he asked the 12th man to find out what was going on rather than provide a warning. That said, I would expect him to go after this series has ended by mutual consent.

Bans seem appropriate for Smith and Warner. Maybe a little harsh on Bancroft but I have little sympathy for him - particularly given he hid the tape and then lied directly to the umpires.

Born Slippy

Posts : 4223
Join date : 2012-05-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 10:40 am

KP_fan wrote:--Smith & Warner banned for 12 months....fair enough
--Bancroft for 9 months....a bit unfair given his stature as a new-comer junior, 2 or 3 test ban would have sufficed)
--Lehmann it seems will go scot-free....not fair

I suspect Lehmann indicated to CA that he will hide behind lack of direct legal evidence as his argument towards his innocence...and should they still take an action, he will sue them

So CA was forced to spare him

But it also seems inevitable that they will dump him as a coach....probably immediately as its well within their powers & they don't need a legal evidence for it

Hi KP_f - you could well be right about Lehmann although even if there is insufficient ''direct legal evidence'' of his involvement with the ball tampering, I feel there's still a decent enough case to give him the boot for failing to control and properly manage those beneath him.

As for Bancroft's ban, I tend to go along with the penalty imposed. What made matters worse for him in my eyes was his continuing the crime - so to speak - when he deliberately tried to mislead the umpires by showing them his sunglasses case.

Agree that the bans for Smith and Warner seem fair enough. Any return to the team though should only be as players and not as holders of any authority.

PS: just seen Slippy's post - very similar point re Bancroft.


Last edited by guildfordbat on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : PS added.)

guildfordbat

Posts : 11913
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 10:53 am

It was always what they were gonna do. All will be free for the important things they really care about, yet this placates the public and sponsors.

Lehmann may well be an innocent man here, whose first instinct on seeing it was to tell his player to stop and get rid of it. However, this implies that his senior players are making huge decisions without their coach, pre-meditated decisions. It would be like Smith waiting till Lehmann left the room and then telling Paine he was now an opening batsman. That suggests arrogance further for Warner and Smith, and also that their coach does not have their respect.

Considering how abrasive and disliked their team is already, I’d say that’s enough to see Lehmann need to go

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 20345
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by boomeranga on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 11:16 am

Given how hard they've gone at the three players, Lehman was either innocent or they can't prove otherwise. I guess it's possible his message was "WTF are you doing?" but feels unlikely. Still, the arguments that loss of control means he deserves a ban don't stack up for me as you still need to be actually guilty of something illegal.

Smith and Warner is heavy but good. Bancroft has been hammered too far.

boomeranga

Posts : 790
Join date : 2011-06-07
Location : Sydney

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by JDizzle on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 11:29 am

Also a note, Smith and Bancroft straight up lied in the press conference after the game claiming it was yellow tape. The enquiry concluded it was sandpaper. So the continual lying has certainly not helped Bancroft’s case.

JDizzle

Posts : 4577
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 11:37 am

Why do people think Bancrofts ban is harsh? Hes the guy that actually did it (and if we take Warner at his word its not the first time either). Theres a deeper implication from him being given the role in the team, yes it was at the behest of the senior leadership and he could argue he wwas pressured into feeling he had to go along with it...but more likely hes a known "ball doctor" and has been doing this sort of thing prior to his senior international call up.

Even if you buy the notion that Bancroft was some poor innocent kid bullied into repeated cheating there has to be a warning to players that the laws and spirit of the game hold greater sway than the requests  of their capatins and coaches. That its better to stand up and say I dont want to be a part of cheating than to go along with it. Its not even like he can argue he didnt know it was bot illeagal and immoral and within the spirit of cricket, hes come out and openly said "its a fair cop gov".

Comapring it to life bans for spot fixing, or multi years for Amir Khan (which many people still feel wasnt sufficent) these are pretty light punishments. Then again Afridi only got a 2 game ban for blatantly biting the ball so hey. I guess out and out cheating is OK.

Also these bans as I uncerstand it are only from Cricket Austrlai, all 3 will be free to play eslewhere...be that as T20 mercenaries (would South African franchises pay through the nose to get Warner facing Rababada as a panto fixture?)  or even in the upcoming County Championships (realisticaly not going to happen but the point is the bans are all cricket)

Of course longer term the players will be damaged well beyond this. Neither Smith nor Warner will be able to captain again. They will lose sponsirship deals. They are unlikely to get employed in top level media jobs or coaching roles once retired. They wont be able to negotiate such good wages for the T20 leagues. Further transgressions for Warner could see him ditched altogether, he was already unpopular with some in CA and has serious behaviour issues.

All the same though the issues with Aus stemming partly from these guys go a lot deeper than this one isolated incident. Lehmans dodged a bullet but others havent been delat with as harshly as they couldve. Their credibility is shot.

Gooseberry

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by hopeforthebest on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 11:42 am

The fact that the bans end conveniently before the world cup and ashes in 2019 makes the them less potent. If CA were really serious the bans would have included this period. As for Lehmann, if he gets off scot free then the view from some ex aussie cricketers that they have been made a laughing stock, will be reinforced.

hopeforthebest

Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by boomeranga on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 11:50 am

I think it heavy (Bancroft only) because at some point you have to draw it back to the Fafs, Athertons and Tendulkar's - other guys who actually did it. All of them senior players in their team and the cricket world, who knew it was wrong to tamper with the ball, who suffered a wrist slap and a cuddle.

boomeranga

Posts : 790
Join date : 2011-06-07
Location : Sydney

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 12:08 pm

boomeranga wrote:Given how hard they've gone at the three players,  Lehman was either innocent or they can't prove otherwise. I guess it's possible his message was "WTF are you doing?" but feels unlikely.  Still,   the arguments that loss of control means he deserves a ban don't stack up for me as you still need to be actually guilty of something illegal.  

Smith and Warner is heavy but good. Bancroft has been hammered too far.

I agree that loss of control shouldn't result in a ban but, and this is a kindly interpretation of events, to lose it so much with the actions that followed from others under his supposed control merits Lehmann being sacked.

Either way, he should no longer be in his job.

guildfordbat

Posts : 11913
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by boomeranga on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 12:19 pm

I doubt he will last in the job for much longer but banned v sacked v not re-signed is important for fairness. The first two must have proof beyond us in the lynch mob.

boomeranga

Posts : 790
Join date : 2011-06-07
Location : Sydney

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by No name Bertie on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 12:30 pm

It seems this was a plan hatched by David Warner (instigator) and Bancroft (follower) with Smith turning a blind eye, but aware of what was going on.  Ball modification has been part of the game (shining one side, spittle, soil ...) but this is the first time where blatant use of sandpaper was used.

It has been said that the Australians can be particularly vicious in the sledging department, and I wonder whether sledging can lead to an attitude of contempt for the opponents.  With an attitude of contempt, some players might begin to have contempt for the rules which leads them to this - cheating.  Personally I think sledging should be toned done several notches, although I am not sure how that would be policed.

No name Bertie

Posts : 730
Join date : 2017-02-24

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 1:11 pm

No name Bertie wrote:It seems this was a plan hatched by David Warner (instigator) and Bancroft (follower) with Smith turning a blind eye, but aware of what was going on.  Ball modification has been part of the game (shining one side, spittle, soil ...) but this is the first time where blatant use of sandpaper was used.

It has been said that the Australians can be particularly vicious in the sledging department, and I wonder whether sledging can lead to an attitude of contempt for the opponents.  With an attitude of contempt, some players might begin to have contempt for the rules which leads them to this - cheating.  Personally I think sledging should be toned done several notches, although I am not sure how that would be policed.

Bertie - To go back to a question that James Franklin* asked on Sky a few days ago, ''Is the first time something is found out the first time it happened?''.

On sledging, I thought there was general agreement that this would be toned down in the wake of Phil Hughes' death and a recognition that winning isn't all that matters. That recognition didn't last long, did it?

* JD and all - Franklin is a further example that you don't have to be a big name in the game and high profile to be a decent pundit.

guildfordbat

Posts : 11913
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Duty281 on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 1:19 pm

Bans are nowhere near long enough- but to be expected.

Duty281

Posts : 17257
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 22
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by No name Bertie on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 1:24 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Bertie - To go back to a question that James Franklin* asked on Sky a few days ago, ''Is the first time something is found out the first time it happened?''
Michael Vaughan suspected tampering in the Ashes with various Australians having taped fingers, with perhaps the tape having an abrasive patch incorporated into it. It likely wouldn't have made a difference in the Ashes series.  With international test cricket being televised from various angles and beamed around the world, whatever they do, it can't be too obvious otherwise many will spot it and flag it up.  I assume the Bancroft incident in South Africa must have been the first time they had done it that particular way.


Last edited by No name Bertie on Wed 28 Mar 2018, 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

No name Bertie

Posts : 730
Join date : 2017-02-24

Back to top Go down

Re: Ball tampering fall out

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum