Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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Will Ulster make the Champions Cup next season

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Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 1:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster Rugby

Final Table
               GP   Points
Leinster    21     70
Scarlets    21     70
Edinburgh 21     68
Ulster       21     62
Benetton   21     55
Dragons    21     20
Kings        21     11

Season Outcome: Playoff for Champions Cup Spot

Ulster are in the Champions Cup


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 4:53 pm

BigGee wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
SRU giving McFarland 9 months more knowledge of Scotland in the run up to crucial RWC pool fixture. Foolish.

They're not though, he's on the summer tour to work with Carl Hogg who then takes over on an interim basis until a full time coach is appointed

easy enough to put him on gardening leave for 6 months. Just because he is contracted, does not mean you have to use him as a coach. Ulster would be much smarter to cough up!

Murray Kinsella reporting it's expected that's what'll happen

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 5:57 pm

marty2086 wrote:
BigGee wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
SRU giving McFarland 9 months more knowledge of Scotland in the run up to crucial RWC pool fixture. Foolish.

They're not though, he's on the summer tour to work with Carl Hogg who then takes over on an interim basis until a full time coach is appointed

easy enough to put him on gardening leave for 6 months. Just because he is contracted, does not mean you have to use him as a coach. Ulster would be much smarter to cough up!

Murray Kinsella reporting it's expected that's what'll happen

So Scotland prefer to pay McFarland to do nothing for the last six months of his contract, and also pay Hogg to do the forwards job pending a full time appointment. Who said the Scots were tight-fisted?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by carpet baboon on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 6:20 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
BigGee wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
SRU giving McFarland 9 months more knowledge of Scotland in the run up to crucial RWC pool fixture. Foolish.

They're not though, he's on the summer tour to work with Carl Hogg who then takes over on an interim basis until a full time coach is appointed

easy enough to put him on gardening leave for 6 months. Just because he is contracted, does not mean you have to use him as a coach. Ulster would be much smarter to cough up!

Murray Kinsella reporting it's expected that's what'll happen

So Scotland prefer to pay McFarland to do nothing for the last six months of his contract, and also pay Hogg to do the forwards job pending a full time appointment. Who said the Scots were tight-fisted?

No. It seems that he will be released from his contract after the summer tour. So will be with us for pre season. And I'm sure I read McFarland will be bringing in two more coaches aswell

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 7:21 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
BigGee wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
SRU giving McFarland 9 months more knowledge of Scotland in the run up to crucial RWC pool fixture. Foolish.

They're not though, he's on the summer tour to work with Carl Hogg who then takes over on an interim basis until a full time coach is appointed

easy enough to put him on gardening leave for 6 months. Just because he is contracted, does not mean you have to use him as a coach. Ulster would be much smarter to cough up!

Murray Kinsella reporting it's expected that's what'll happen

So Scotland prefer to pay McFarland to do nothing for the last six months of his contract, and also pay Hogg to do the forwards job pending a full time appointment. Who said the Scots were tight-fisted?


No. It seems that he will be released from his contract after the summer tour. So will be with us for pre season. And I'm sure I read McFarland will be bringing in two more coaches aswell

That would be best all round. It is not as if he is going to be on silly money as an assistant coach with Scotland. It won't cost to much to come to a deal.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Don Alfonso on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 8:47 pm

Really quite pleased with that. Dreading it being Michael Bradley or somesuch.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Don Alfonso on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 9:01 pm

Talk of Arno Botha showing up after all.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 9:47 pm

Does that imply Coetzee is done? Or Deysel? We can't possibly have 3 NIQ back rows.

If its Botha for Deysel... meh. If it's Botha for Coetzee furious

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 9:59 pm

Maybe Botha is being signed to cover for Coetzee in case he gets fit.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 01 May 2018, 1:04 pm

It's all gone quite over there....
It's all gone quite over there....

How many people now have that annoying tune in their head now?
You'd think there was nothing to talk about.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Tue 01 May 2018, 1:43 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Maybe Botha is being signed to cover for Coetzee in case he gets fit.

Could be like a game of South African Roulette, who's knee will go first

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 01 May 2018, 1:56 pm

marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Maybe Botha is being signed to cover for Coetzee in case he gets fit.

Could be like a game of South African Roulette, who's knee will go first

It's a pity Belfast didn't have some of the world's best knee reconstruction experts.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Tue 01 May 2018, 2:13 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Maybe Botha is being signed to cover for Coetzee in case he gets fit.

Could be like a game of South African Roulette, who's knee will go first

It's a pity Belfast didn't have some of the world's best knee reconstruction experts.

At this rate they must be getting pretty good at it

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 01 May 2018, 2:16 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Maybe Botha is being signed to cover for Coetzee in case he gets fit.

Could be like a game of South African Roulette, who's knee will go first

It's a pity Belfast didn't have some of the world's best knee reconstruction experts.

At this rate they must be getting pretty good at it

After 30 years of kneecappings they should be able to do it one handed and blindfolded Smile

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Tue 01 May 2018, 2:22 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Maybe Botha is being signed to cover for Coetzee in case he gets fit.

Could be like a game of South African Roulette, who's knee will go first

It's a pity Belfast didn't have some of the world's best knee reconstruction experts.

At this rate they must be getting pretty good at it

After 30 years of kneecappings they should be able to do it one handed and blindfolded Smile

Think it's a slightly different injury Laugh

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 01 May 2018, 3:28 pm

Why do I view Arno Botha as a break glass option - because he always comes off the pitch shattered!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39961072

If there is any truth in the rumours of his return, it would yet again throw Ulster Rugby into the unprofessional spotlight. Were the independent medical staff in South Africa chosen because they knew the word crepe and had a St John's Ambulance certificate? What about the ratification from the Ulster medics? Perhaps they got the decision right, and if so why go back on that - all it takes is for one injury to undermine the decision and open the can of recriminations. Ulster's record in sicknote signings is already woeful, so taking the risk of another one is madness.

I'm sure Botha is a great guy who is playing fantastically well at London Irish but to do a U turn on this decision is really incredible and yet again calls into question the relationship between Cunningham and Esportif.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Tue 01 May 2018, 3:45 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Why do I view Arno Botha as a break glass option - because he always comes off the pitch shattered!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39961072

If there is any truth in the rumours of his return, it would yet again throw Ulster Rugby into the unprofessional spotlight. Were the independent medical staff in South Africa chosen because they knew the word crepe and had a St John's Ambulance certificate? What about the ratification from the Ulster medics? Perhaps they got the decision right, and if so why go back on that - all it takes is for one injury to undermine the decision and open the can of recriminations. Ulster's record in sicknote signings is already woeful, so taking the risk of another one is madness.

I'm sure Botha is a great guy who is playing fantastically well at London Irish but to do a U turn on this decision is really incredible and yet again calls into question the relationship between Cunningham and Esportif.

Where to start...

There were 8 months between the Ulster deal being cancelled and him joining LI, plenty of time to rehab and improve his knee also plenty of time for nature to do it's thing

What exactly have Esportif got to do with any of it?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Tue 01 May 2018, 4:10 pm

Arno has had a decent season at LI hasn't he? Better than Deysel's I think.
But this rumour surely indicates one of Deysel or Coetzee is leaving...

I'm not so much worried about Arno's fitness or ability as a squad player, I'd happily take him. But if it's in place of Coetzee, that's an awful step down. And makes Coetzee possibly the worst value Ulster signing of the pro era.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 01 May 2018, 6:20 pm

marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Why do I view Arno Botha as a break glass option - because he always comes off the pitch shattered!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39961072

If there is any truth in the rumours of his return, it would yet again throw Ulster Rugby into the unprofessional spotlight. Were the independent medical staff in South Africa chosen because they knew the word crepe and had a St John's Ambulance certificate? What about the ratification from the Ulster medics? Perhaps they got the decision right, and if so why go back on that - all it takes is for one injury to undermine the decision and open the can of recriminations. Ulster's record in sicknote signings is already woeful, so taking the risk of another one is madness.

I'm sure Botha is a great guy who is playing fantastically well at London Irish but to do a U turn on this decision is really incredible and yet again calls into question the relationship between Cunningham and Esportif.

Where to start...

There were 8 months between the Ulster deal being cancelled and him joining LI, plenty of time to rehab and improve his knee also plenty of time for nature to do it's thing

What exactly have Esportif got to do with any of it?

Cunningham used to work for Esportif and at the time of the Botha signing the majority of Ulster signings were connected to that agency.
Botha may be fully rehabilitated and have put his injury-prone history behind him, which is great for him personally. However if he were signed (having been previously rejected on medical grounds) and got injured it would be yet another PR disaster. Maybe he is available on the cheap and that can be factored in to the insurance (or lack of) in his contract, maybe he could be on a 'pay as you play' basis, or appearances, or any number of ways to mitigate possible injury absence, but his history cannot be ignored. Of late Ulster have signed too many players and got precious little value out of them, so at some point that series of unfortunate events calls into question the wisdom of those making the decisions.

Up to Kiss' departure, Cunningham has been absolved of any responsibility for past mistakes, and deserves a chance to show what he can do with the leash removed, so I hope he is not as politically naive as this signing would undoubtedly indicate.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Wed 02 May 2018, 9:43 am

Aukster, you're talking cr@p. Esportifs Ulster players are Trimble, Piutau, Henry, Gilroy, Payne, Best and Bowe. That's barely the majority of a starting team never mind squad Rolling Eyes

They only just opened in SA a few months ago, so nothing to do with them. I seem to remember reading over the time of Bothas failed medical that he is repped by CSM


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 02 May 2018, 9:48 am

Paddy and Stu heading to Sale next season then. Get ready for the mock horror and backs of hands to the forehead from a section of the Sale fanbase. Someone will have to remind them they're getting two high caliber players.
Mind you we're getting their captain.........hold on, do I sense some kind of swap?? Smile Smile

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 02 May 2018, 10:56 am

Good to see them get their careers back on track. Two good players.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Wed 02 May 2018, 11:08 am

Geographically the closest club they could get to Ulster. Sale barely have any fans, so any protestations will probably be at a minimum.

http://rd.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php#x42AZjEYHLyU58rz.97

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 02 May 2018, 11:24 am

Sale already have AJ McGinty and James O'Connor at OH. Wonder if Jackson will be considered 1st choice. You could argue that James O'Connor is better at finding a gap than Jackson.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Wed 02 May 2018, 11:49 am

O'Connor can play a range of positions so he won't be wasted. It's not beyond possibility that Paddy can play 12 and they all muck in.

On Sale though I see our new signing played a 15 a few weeks ago. Seems he will be a utility back.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 02 May 2018, 1:06 pm

marty2086 wrote:Aukster, you're talking cr@p. Esportifs Ulster players are Trimble, Piutau, Henry, Gilroy, Payne, Best and Bowe. That's barely the majority of a starting team never mind squad  Rolling Eyes

They only just opened in SA a few months ago, so nothing to do with them. I seem to remember reading over the time of Bothas failed medical that he is repped by CSM


Who said anything about the squad?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Wed 02 May 2018, 1:44 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Aukster, you're talking cr@p. Esportifs Ulster players are Trimble, Piutau, Henry, Gilroy, Payne, Best and Bowe. That's barely the majority of a starting team never mind squad  Rolling Eyes

They only just opened in SA a few months ago, so nothing to do with them. I seem to remember reading over the time of Bothas failed medical that he is repped by CSM


Who said anything about the squad?

Sorry I gave you more credit than you're due, so Botha was signed when 0 signings during that period were with Esportif so you really were talking cr@p

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 02 May 2018, 2:02 pm

marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Aukster, you're talking cr@p. Esportifs Ulster players are Trimble, Piutau, Henry, Gilroy, Payne, Best and Bowe. That's barely the majority of a starting team never mind squad  Rolling Eyes

They only just opened in SA a few months ago, so nothing to do with them. I seem to remember reading over the time of Bothas failed medical that he is repped by CSM


Who said anything about the squad?

Sorry I gave you more credit than you're due, so Botha was signed when 0 signings during that period were with Esportif so you really were talking cr@p

Botha wasn't signed. Anyway Esportif had connections in SA before March of this year - do you really think they had no Saffers on their books before now? Allegedly they would have received a slice of the fee and may still be due that if Botha were to be signed now.
Player movements generate cash for agents, so it's not just signings one way that generate income.

BTW your list is far from exhaustive, isn't Stockdale with Esportif?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Wed 02 May 2018, 2:41 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Aukster, you're talking cr@p. Esportifs Ulster players are Trimble, Piutau, Henry, Gilroy, Payne, Best and Bowe. That's barely the majority of a starting team never mind squad  Rolling Eyes

They only just opened in SA a few months ago, so nothing to do with them. I seem to remember reading over the time of Bothas failed medical that he is repped by CSM


Who said anything about the squad?

Sorry I gave you more credit than you're due, so Botha was signed when 0 signings during that period were with Esportif so you really were talking cr@p

Botha wasn't signed. Anyway Esportif had connections in SA before March of this year - do you really think they had no Saffers on their books before now? Allegedly they would have received a slice of the fee and may still be due that if Botha were to be signed now.
Player movements generate cash for agents, so it's not just signings one way that generate income.

BTW your list is far from exhaustive, isn't Stockdale with Esportif?

He was signed but the contract was cancelled before it began, he just wasn't officially an Ulster player.

Didn't Bryn talk about the player with the worst injury record they've signed recently was Cooney? Not to mention they signed vDM on limited information, they took risks as every signing is, some paid off and some didn't so not exactly sure what it is Esportif are meant to be guilty of when they weren't involved

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 02 May 2018, 3:29 pm

Cooney was a potential long term sicknote waiting to happen but look how that one turned out.
From all accounts Botha has been a bit of a star for LI, ripping up trees for them. I've not seen him at all but can anyone confirm this? If it's true he could be a valuable addition.
Coetzee's injury came up a few times on t'other forum and someone claimed that it was coming on really well and was looking very strong. We'll have to wait and see about that but lets hope we get the chance to next season.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Wed 02 May 2018, 3:44 pm

Seen him play against Worcester and he looked good, he seemed to have lost some power in his carrying and doesn't seem as destructive but still a step up from some of our current options but not like Coetzee before his injury who may face the same issue when he comes back.


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by SirBurger on Wed 02 May 2018, 4:01 pm

marty2086 wrote:Seen him play against Worcester and he looked good, he seemed to have lost some power in his carrying and doesn't seem as destructive but still a step up from some of our current options but not like Coetzee before his injury who may face the same issue when he comes back.


He's been very good for us although he got injured against Gloucester. I would not say he has lost any power in his carrying. He has made an incredible amount of metres since he joined us. In fact, I read somewhere that if you look at his statistics for the games he played he was the best forward in the league for carries and turnovers, and was the 4th best player overall for defenders beaten. We are very keen to keep hold of him, but I think most fans are resigned to losing him.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Wed 02 May 2018, 4:08 pm

Any chance it's a double swap -could we be getting Addison and somebody else?

I can see Jackson and Olding having very good careers actually. Think of how much it would drive you, the motivation that would come from being shunned by you home club and country.

It will only make it harder for Ulster fans if we are destined to watch Jackson play great rugby for another side - maybe even playing against us at some point.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Wed 02 May 2018, 4:12 pm

But I do find it odd that a club would want to sign both of them. Given the notoriety surrounding their conduct, you would have though that keeping them together, probably sharing a flat would only encourage their past lives to continue. I'm talking from the viewpoint of a hypothetical concerned Sale fan here.

If they were signed singly, a new club could claim they are offering them a new start. Not much new about sticking with your perceived partner in crime just in a new town...

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Wed 02 May 2018, 4:18 pm

Sale are probably getting two quality players on the cheap given how hard it will be for both to get signed, if Sale are smart they'll add in some sort of morals clause and system to keep their behaviour in check.

Plus if you are going to invite possible trouble, why not sign two instead of one when the backlash will be the same, in for a penny and all that

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 02 May 2018, 4:33 pm

You'd like to think the two lads will have learned their lesson in regards to their behaviour and how everything you thought was private can suddenly find itself in the public realm.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Sin é on Wed 02 May 2018, 4:41 pm

Hope they sort themselves out with Sale. PJ got very poor advice threatening to sue everyone. I see they lost their case v. BBC and have to pay costs of £20K. I'd imagine it will suit Sale that unlike McGinty, they won't be off to the World Cup next year. JOC will hardly be called up by Aus. Sale are going to have their work cut out for them keeping all those players 'on track'.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Don Alfonso on Wed 02 May 2018, 4:50 pm

clivemcl wrote:But I do find it odd that a club would want to sign both of them. Given the notoriety surrounding their conduct, you would have though that keeping them together, probably sharing a flat would only encourage their past lives to continue. I'm talking from the viewpoint of a hypothetical concerned Sale fan here.

If they were signed singly, a new club could claim they are offering them a new start. Not much new about sticking with your perceived partner in crime just in a new town...

I'd imagine, given they signed them, they don't think PJ and SO are guilty of r***. Which leaves the WhatsApp. That type of text message is not uncommon for many young men, never mind professional sports players. (Personally, I would know a number of young women who would text the same way.) So I doubt the guys at Sale think it's anything extraordinary. A number of their guys probably message each other the same way. The Belfast two will probably keep their noses cleaner than half the rest of the squad, having been through this turmoil.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Sin é on Wed 02 May 2018, 5:26 pm

Just because that this type of conversation is common among young men and young women doesn't make it anyway right. That is an absolutely stupid way to look at it.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 02 May 2018, 6:10 pm

Sale not signing the lads after all according to the BBC

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Don Alfonso on Wed 02 May 2018, 6:12 pm

I didn't say it was alright. I said they wouldn't think it was extraordinary. Confusing those two things is pretty stupid.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Don Alfonso on Wed 02 May 2018, 6:21 pm

Sale also denied they'd signed Faf De Klerk and James O'Connor, apparently.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Wed 02 May 2018, 6:22 pm

Sin é wrote:Hope they sort themselves out with Sale. PJ got very poor advice threatening to sue everyone. I see they lost their case v. BBC and have to pay costs of £20K. I'd imagine it will suit Sale that unlike McGinty, they won't be off to the World Cup next year. JOC will hardly be called up by Aus. Sale are going to have their work cut out for them keeping all those players 'on track'.

That is the hope.

You say Sin that Paddy in particular got some very bad advice. I can understand that opinion but the flip side would be when the reporting restrictions were lifted it turned out that during the trial his barrister made a compliant against the judge which got shot down immediately.

On the same day, lawyers for Paddy Jackson applied to have the jury discharged. They cited issues around the judge’s pace, tone and delivery of her charges to the jury. RTÉ News reports that Brendan Kelly QC said he made the application “on instruction” and with a “heavy heart”.

That's at least suggestive that it was Jackson who told his lawyer to complain about the judge's conduct, to the judge. I read elsewhere that it was the only time the judge was visibly annoyed.

Anyway food for thought. Whoever's decision it was, suing the BBC was dumb. Really, really dumb. They're always going to win on a "Public Interest" defence. They would have a much better shot at suing the PPS. If the PPS leaks information to the BBC, you don't go after the BBC. It's the PPS's responsibility not to leak.




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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 02 May 2018, 6:44 pm

marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Aukster, you're talking cr@p. Esportifs Ulster players are Trimble, Piutau, Henry, Gilroy, Payne, Best and Bowe. That's barely the majority of a starting team never mind squad  Rolling Eyes

They only just opened in SA a few months ago, so nothing to do with them. I seem to remember reading over the time of Bothas failed medical that he is repped by CSM


Who said anything about the squad?

Sorry I gave you more credit than you're due, so Botha was signed when 0 signings during that period were with Esportif so you really were talking cr@p

Botha wasn't signed. Anyway Esportif had connections in SA before March of this year - do you really think they had no Saffers on their books before now? Allegedly they would have received a slice of the fee and may still be due that if Botha were to be signed now.
Player movements generate cash for agents, so it's not just signings one way that generate income.

BTW your list is far from exhaustive, isn't Stockdale with Esportif?

He was signed but the contract was cancelled before it began, he just wasn't officially an Ulster player.

Didn't Bryn talk about the player with the worst injury record they've signed recently was Cooney? Not to mention they signed vDM on limited information, they took risks as every signing is, some paid off and some didn't so not exactly sure what it is Esportif are meant to be guilty of when they weren't involved

BBC May 17 wrote:"We were looking forward to welcoming him to Kingspan Stadium. However, we have acted with the best interests of team performance in mind," Cunningham said.

"We have meticulous processes for player recruitment and, having commissioned an independent medical assessment in South Africa, it was recommended that the risk had increased following his most recent injury.

How could VdM be recruited on "limited information" if 'they' have meticulous processes for player recruitment?

Cooney didn't fail his medical nor VdM or Deysel theirs for that matter. No risk was taken with Botha a year ago, and his replacement Deysel was signed instead on a two year deal. If Cunningham is now considering signing the rejected Botha, then presumably he must now think those meticulous processes and the medical information commissioned a year ago was also "limited". Both JD and Coetzee still have a year each to run (or hobble) before their contracts are up, Chris Henry is now missing swathes of the season, and Sean Reidy starting to be MIA through injury. A fit Arno Botha would be a great asset to Ulster but IF he gets injured then Cunningham would look like a fool. In fact it could also be argued that Botha would be so keen to not let anyone down he might play through knocks thus risking the very "team performance" in whose best interests he was rejected in the first place.

There is a whole world of backrows out there that Cunningham could sign who wouldn't have the baggage of Botha.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Kingshu on Wed 02 May 2018, 8:43 pm

Redman wrote:
Sin é wrote:Hope they sort themselves out with Sale. PJ got very poor advice threatening to sue everyone. I see they lost their case v. BBC and have to pay costs of £20K. I'd imagine it will suit Sale that unlike McGinty, they won't be off to the World Cup next year. JOC will hardly be called up by Aus. Sale are going to have their work cut out for them keeping all those players 'on track'.

That is the hope.  

You say Sin that Paddy in particular got some very bad advice.  I can understand that opinion but the flip side would be when the reporting restrictions were lifted it turned out that during the trial his barrister made a compliant against the judge which got shot down immediately.  

On the same day, lawyers for Paddy Jackson applied to have the jury discharged. They cited issues around the judge’s pace, tone and delivery of her charges to the jury. RTÉ News reports that Brendan Kelly QC said he made the application “on instruction” and with a “heavy heart”.

That's at least suggestive that it was Jackson who told his lawyer to complain about the judge's conduct, to the judge.  I read elsewhere that it was the only time the judge was visibly annoyed.  

Anyway food for thought.  Whoever's decision it was, suing the BBC was dumb.  Really, really dumb.  They're always going to win on a "Public Interest" defence.  They would have a much better shot at suing the PPS.  If the PPS leaks information to the BBC, you don't go after the BBC.  It's the PPS's responsibility not to leak.  




Have to disagree. You think no one should sue the BBC?
Hows cliff Richards case going? Was he wrong to sue them?
The two had a similar case to Cliff. They were entitled to, ok they lost. Bit I dont think it was clear they shouldnt have.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 02 May 2018, 10:02 pm

Looks like Sale have been ‘persuaded’ that hiring Jackson and Olding would not be a good thing. Another Sale support group has mobilized.

Sounds like these guys have to move to Outer Mongolia and learn a new trade if they want to move on.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 02 May 2018, 10:15 pm

So is the Addison swap deal off then?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Wed 02 May 2018, 10:37 pm

I'd say it's the signing of Addison that has Sale in the market for a new centre. I reckon he was signed by Ulster before Sale thought about Olding. Addison is IQ so I'm sure UR had him on a list. Don't think this was a swap deal necessarily.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Don Alfonso on Thu 03 May 2018, 9:25 am

According to the Independent, Carbery is seriously considering coming North for a season.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Thu 03 May 2018, 9:25 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Aukster, you're talking cr@p. Esportifs Ulster players are Trimble, Piutau, Henry, Gilroy, Payne, Best and Bowe. That's barely the majority of a starting team never mind squad  Rolling Eyes

They only just opened in SA a few months ago, so nothing to do with them. I seem to remember reading over the time of Bothas failed medical that he is repped by CSM


Who said anything about the squad?

Sorry I gave you more credit than you're due, so Botha was signed when 0 signings during that period were with Esportif so you really were talking cr@p

Botha wasn't signed. Anyway Esportif had connections in SA before March of this year - do you really think they had no Saffers on their books before now? Allegedly they would have received a slice of the fee and may still be due that if Botha were to be signed now.
Player movements generate cash for agents, so it's not just signings one way that generate income.

BTW your list is far from exhaustive, isn't Stockdale with Esportif?

He was signed but the contract was cancelled before it began, he just wasn't officially an Ulster player.

Didn't Bryn talk about the player with the worst injury record they've signed recently was Cooney? Not to mention they signed vDM on limited information, they took risks as every signing is, some paid off and some didn't so not exactly sure what it is Esportif are meant to be guilty of when they weren't involved

BBC May 17 wrote:"We were looking forward to welcoming him to Kingspan Stadium. However, we have acted with the best interests of team performance in mind," Cunningham said.

"We have meticulous processes for player recruitment and, having commissioned an independent medical assessment in South Africa, it was recommended that the risk had increased following his most recent injury.

How could VdM be recruited on "limited information" if 'they' have meticulous processes for player recruitment?

Cooney didn't fail his medical nor VdM or Deysel theirs for that matter. No risk was taken with Botha a year ago, and his replacement Deysel was signed instead on a two year deal. If Cunningham is now considering signing the rejected Botha, then presumably he must now think those meticulous processes and the medical information commissioned a year ago was also "limited". Both JD and Coetzee still have a year each to run (or hobble) before their contracts are up, Chris Henry is now missing swathes of the season, and Sean Reidy starting to be MIA through injury. A fit Arno Botha would be a great asset to Ulster but IF he gets injured then Cunningham would look like a fool. In fact it could also be argued that Botha would be so keen to not let anyone down he might play through knocks thus risking the very "team performance" in whose best interests he was rejected in the first place.

There is a whole world of backrows out there that Cunningham could sign who wouldn't have the baggage of Botha.

Erm

So after an full blown attack on Esportif you've changed it to one on Cunningham? Rolling Eyes

It was talked about on here from the fan event, vDM was signed off 4 years of info rather than the usual process because of how little he played

Also Botha didn't fail a medical when he was initially signed, it was only after he got injured again, failing a medical though is probably a misnomer, as players don't fail medicals those signing them just decide what injuries are and aren't worth taking a risk on

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 03 May 2018, 9:40 am

Don Alfonso wrote:According to the Independent, Carbery is seriously considering coming North for a season.

One half of me really, really doesn't want him anywhere near Ulster. He's not been playing regularly at 10 and when I have seen him it's been fleetingly and whilst he definitely has talent he doesn't have the experienced head that we could be doing with, one that would also help to bring along our home grown 10s. If Cullen doesn't see him as a 10 then why should we?
The other half reminds me that most those fleeting moments I've seen of him at 10 were in a green shirt. He's played 10 at international level and what Cullen doesn't see, Joe certainly does. As Joe has a tad more experience and rugby nous than Cullen I should bow to his superior knowledge and be very excited about Carberry heading up here. In Joe we should trust!

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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