Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 1:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster Rugby

Final Table
               GP   Points
Leinster    21     70
Scarlets    21     70
Edinburgh 21     68
Ulster       21     62
Benetton   21     55
Dragons    21     20
Kings        21     11

Season Outcome: Playoff for Champions Cup Spot

Ulster are in the Champions Cup


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Standulstermen on Sat 26 May 2018, 10:45 am

marty2086 wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:In terms of Ulster youngsters not playing at a high enough level. O'Toole was in 2A this season and looks to the manor born. Dalton was in 2B and looks a very good prospect. I dont buy that they arent playing at high enough levels to make the step up. If they are goof enough they will adapt and adapt quickly. Hall came in and made 20 plus tackle v Treviso. Its about the environment which they are brought into and that has been the primary difference imo.

Dont get me wrong there is definitely work to be done in the areas highlighted but I dont buy the young guys cant step up, particularly now there will be this U23 league mooted.

On the LH front, if Ulster didnt go after Dooley they need slapped. alternatively if that guy is happy playing AIL at leinster instead of being first choice at a province then slap it up him. I do believe the latter is the case though and he wouldnt move

The problem though isn't if they are good enough, it's if the experience they get prepares them enough to step up. The transition for Leinsters youngsters is far easier because they experience at a higher level playing at the top level of the AIL and playing each other a lot of the time. That raises the bar, Ulster don't have that luxury

I disagree Marty. I think the difference is within the professional organisation and the standards that they set day in and day out which raises the level of competition.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 26 May 2018, 10:46 am

My point about Pienaer is it would not surprise me in the least if he has a get out clause that says if he is offered an Ulster coaching rule he can walk away

Thereby hangs a tantilising rumour

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 26 May 2018, 10:51 am

Standulstermen wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:In terms of Ulster youngsters not playing at a high enough level. O'Toole was in 2A this season and looks to the manor born. Dalton was in 2B and looks a very good prospect. I dont buy that they arent playing at high enough levels to make the step up. If they are goof enough they will adapt and adapt quickly. Hall came in and made 20 plus tackle v Treviso. Its about the environment which they are brought into and that has been the primary difference imo.

Dont get me wrong there is definitely work to be done in the areas highlighted but I dont buy the young guys cant step up, particularly now there will be this U23 league mooted.

On the LH front, if Ulster didnt go after Dooley they need slapped. alternatively if that guy is happy playing AIL at leinster instead of being first choice at a province then slap it up him. I do believe the latter is the case though and he wouldnt move

The problem though isn't if they are good enough, it's if the experience they get prepares them enough to step up. The transition for Leinsters youngsters is far easier because they experience at a higher level playing at the top level of the AIL and playing each other a lot of the time. That raises the bar, Ulster don't have that luxury

I disagree Marty. I think the difference is within the professional organisation and the standards that they set day in and day out which raises the level of competition.

I think you are both right - playing higher level AIB would be a help
This new Under 23 competition will be a big help

At the same time a different level of professionalism and attitude within Ulster itself is needed - we now have only Malone left of the senior coaching set up from 16-17
Maybe its coming - old pros like Payne and Pienaer under McFarland might be the way to go.
Its a risk, with respect to coaching inexperience, but given where we are one worth taking - both of those players are sticklers for getting in right and neither would stand for any cowpat.
Crucial they command a reputation and a presence that demands to be listened to and respected

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Sat 26 May 2018, 10:53 am

Standulstermen wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:In terms of Ulster youngsters not playing at a high enough level. O'Toole was in 2A this season and looks to the manor born. Dalton was in 2B and looks a very good prospect. I dont buy that they arent playing at high enough levels to make the step up. If they are goof enough they will adapt and adapt quickly. Hall came in and made 20 plus tackle v Treviso. Its about the environment which they are brought into and that has been the primary difference imo.

Dont get me wrong there is definitely work to be done in the areas highlighted but I dont buy the young guys cant step up, particularly now there will be this U23 league mooted.

On the LH front, if Ulster didnt go after Dooley they need slapped. alternatively if that guy is happy playing AIL at leinster instead of being first choice at a province then slap it up him. I do believe the latter is the case though and he wouldnt move

The problem though isn't if they are good enough, it's if the experience they get prepares them enough to step up. The transition for Leinsters youngsters is far easier because they experience at a higher level playing at the top level of the AIL and playing each other a lot of the time. That raises the bar, Ulster don't have that luxury

I disagree Marty. I think the difference is within the professional organisation and the standards that they set day in and day out which raises the level of competition.

Im sure thats a factor in levels, when you see the levels that Leinsters youngsters work at, the Leinster environment and the level they play their club level mean they are half a step away from the Ireland team rather than two steps off like most Ulster youngsters

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 26 May 2018, 10:58 am

The Great Aukster wrote: Why should the IRFU exclude Cunningham from the clear-out, when he has a questionable track record and publicly criticised them? If he is just another D4 puppet overseeing the blood-letting, then surely his reward would be an IRFU job to stay at Ulster as their inside man.

With regard to his questionable track record it is now clear Kiss was the ultimate decider on all contracts.
Initially Cunningham was brought in because neither Logan or Kiss had any clue whatsoever about Rugby contracts and now it appears that was the extent of his role + a bit of PR
As the Poopie hit the fan he found himself the only man standing and as such I suspect the IRFU are working with him to sort out the mess

Phrases like 'D4 puppet' and 'stay at Ulster as their inside man' quite frankly are nonsense.
His loyalty is always to Ulster first but, rightly in my view, in order to get us back on track, he needs to work with the IRFU not against them.
I also think Nucifora recognises that Cunningham is the only show in town with respect to getting Ulster back up to speed and fully functioning.
I have no doubt there will criticisms and disagreements along the way

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 27 May 2018, 8:49 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote: Why should the IRFU exclude Cunningham from the clear-out, when he has a questionable track record and publicly criticised them? If he is just another D4 puppet overseeing the blood-letting, then surely his reward would be an IRFU job to stay at Ulster as their inside man.

With regard to his questionable track record it is now clear Kiss was the ultimate decider on all contracts.
Initially Cunningham was brought in because neither Logan or Kiss had any clue whatsoever about Rugby contracts and now it appears that was the extent of his role + a bit of PR
As the Poopie hit the fan he found himself the only man standing and as such I suspect the IRFU are working with him to sort out the mess

Phrases like 'D4 puppet' and 'stay at Ulster as their inside man' quite frankly are nonsense.
His loyalty is always to Ulster first but, rightly in my view, in order to get us back on track, he needs to work with the IRFU not against them.
I also think Nucifora recognises that Cunningham is the only show in town with respect to getting Ulster back up to speed and fully functioning.
I have no doubt there will criticisms and disagreements along the way  

With respect Geoff, can I remind you who suggested the "nonsense" that Bryn's strings are being pulled by the IRFU with the promise of a job?
geoff999rugby wrote:Increasingly looks to me like the remit is get rid of the lot and start again.
Is it Cunningham role to manage this before getting his reward with some sort of IRFU job ? - would not surprise me

Regarding track record, if Cunningham wasn't able to stand up to Kiss and Logan, why would he be able to stand up to Nucifora?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Standulstermen on Sun 27 May 2018, 10:26 am

I think that’s a tad harsh on Cunningham Aukster. The way it was explained was that the coaches and DoR identified a need (in terms of position), Cunningham went out and put together a list based on the options available and the remit given by the coaching staff. The decision was then made by all but ultimately the decision came down to the DoR.

I’m not defending Cunningham. I’m not convinced either but I will give him credit in the sense he has been put out in front of the supporters and been made to answer some tough questions. I’m not convinced he is the right man but I do agree with Geoff in the sense the irfu can’t get rid of everyone in one season and hope to be prepared for September. He is necessary at present. Whether Nucifora feels the same way in 12 months is anyone’s guess

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 27 May 2018, 5:51 pm

SU apparently that procedure didn't happen with the van der Merwe signing - there was no list and nothing sticking to Cunningham on that one. What we do know is that up to now Bryn does what he's told and despite his title he obviously  doesn't direct operations. So why should he be judged differently to GG or JD or Peel or Dundon or Malone?

If Cunningham is the one doing the judging then someone must have given him the authority or is he just following orders?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Standulstermen on Sun 27 May 2018, 7:24 pm

I dont think Cunningham is the one doing the judging on those lads. thats coming from Dublin as a result of the review possibly. In terms of VDM Cunningham said it was a collective failure based on not enough evidence albeit the final decision did rest with Kiss. The evidence was due to factors like injury and not getting requisite gametime.

Im not absolving Cunningham but someone does need to ease this transition, especially if there are more jobs to go. That said if he let the cat out of the bag regarding McFarland too early and it ends up costing the IRFU more money as a consequence then i'd say his card is marked.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Kingshu on Mon 28 May 2018, 12:01 am

I don't think anyone can really be blamed for vdm sometimes a player with a simlar profile comes over and becomes a star every now and again they are a dud. We can no longer sign the already proven quality like Pienaar and have to take risks and when that happens sometimes you sign gold and sometimes you get a turd. Hopefully the lesson is learned and they know how to cut turds loose quicker.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Mon 28 May 2018, 1:22 am

Talk that Cairns has been cut loose.

Understandable given he's like 25/26, but makes the end of season omission of Stewart from the bench all the more inexplicable. Looks like our 9s next year will be Cooney, Shanahan and Stewart. Serious issues if we lost Cooney to injury or Ireland.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Mon 28 May 2018, 9:40 am

I'd defend Bryn given that he wasn't given his proper place in the food chain, to me that's another damning indictment of Logan in that he brought someone in to do a job that he wasn't allowed to do. It further goes to show how messed up the organisation is that these things were allowed to happen.

I do have some questions regarding the whole Gibbes La Rochelle situation, apparently no one at Ulster knew he was going and when the press called Ulster for comment they said he was in Belfast. Given that Bryn is his direct superior, how little respect did he have for him to not to have the courtesy of giving him a heads up?

I also wonder how he deals with the incoming coach, if the IRFU or Joe made the call how much power will he have dealing with a coach if he underperforms or there are problems?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Mon 28 May 2018, 9:43 am

Also Gibbes has been officially confirmed as the Waikato coach

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Mon 28 May 2018, 10:09 am

Confirmed that Payne has retired and will stay as coach.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/17354.php#.WwvGky7wZph

Fantastic player when he was fit, really unlucky with injury and will be badly missed on the field.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Mon 28 May 2018, 10:15 am

We knew it was coming, great that he will be involved over the summer. Hopefully it's not a sign of him being lined up to take the defence job with Ireland in the near future

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Mon 28 May 2018, 10:49 am

What defense job with Ireland? Farrell is signed until 2020?
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by neilthom7 on Mon 28 May 2018, 11:09 am

What we all expected really, still a pity to see him retire. Was an excellent player for us and hopefully that brain he showed on the pitch will make him an excellent coach too.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Mon 28 May 2018, 11:13 am

That's two years away rodders, given how highly Joe rates him and I'm sure Farrell will have his fair share of offers between now and then but if not would he stay beyond 2020? Then we could be looking at another need for a coach, it would be nice to get some consistency across the board at Ulster, then I want to see an Ulster way and culture being developed. I saw Dan McFarland on Twitter last week recommending a book about Barcelona and developing a winning culture and sustaining it beyond the usual 4 year cycle, from what I have read from people who have worked with him he seems to be big on these things, so I want to see the coaching panel from next season be given a chance to succeed or fail on their own merits and I don't want to see it dismantled if there's a hint of success

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Don Alfonso on Mon 28 May 2018, 12:42 pm

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/ruan-pienaars-rumoured-ulster-return-is-unlikely-to-happenyet-36952085.html

Not for this season, Dundon and Peel retained, looks like.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Mon 28 May 2018, 1:16 pm

Been impressed with Peel actually. The attacking patterns have really started to click in the back end of the season.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 28 May 2018, 2:00 pm

rodders wrote:Confirmed that Payne has retired and will stay as coach.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/17354.php#.WwvGky7wZph

Fantastic player when he was fit, really unlucky with injury and will be badly missed on the field.

Its a real shame. Great player. The folly of Lions tours.

Good luck to him.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Mon 28 May 2018, 2:21 pm

rodders wrote:Confirmed that Payne has retired and will stay as coach.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/17354.php#.WwvGky7wZph

Fantastic player when he was fit, really unlucky with injury and will be badly missed on the field.

Great player who has stuck around for us in spite of some horrible luck with injuries. If you think he lost a year and potentially a bit of pace because of the achilles. Another year from the headaches and he's still only 32. That's ignoring the career threatening kidney thing too. Crazy, nothing but respect for the lad.

Seems like only yesterday that the scum on UAFC nicknamed him Jihad and were trying to drum him out of Ulster on the accusation of him asking to play more at 13. Some sections of our fans are terribly hard on players. Campaigns like we saw against Big Nick and Jared a few years ago really bring out the worst in some of us.

Ireland clearly think he has a future with them if he's being taken to Australia. Some speculation I see that he might be a medium term replacement for Farrell if he decides he wants a crack at Head Coach/DoR position post World Cup.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Mon 28 May 2018, 2:28 pm

Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 28 May 2018, 2:32 pm

So the worst kept secret is official re Payne.
This has been obvious for at least 6 months.
On the Pienaer thing - I am convinced it will happen, I am equally convinced it will not be this summer
McFarland approved Payne being signed on and I believe he is ok with retaining Peel

Cairns away not surprised - Owens and Busby to be determined and no news yet on Ah You and VdeMerwe
Given the gaps in the squad increasingly looking like they are all in with a good chance of one more year.

Is Niall Malone next ?
Ulster are actively looking for a skills coach and Malone job title is Analyst and Skills coach.
Is it demotion or the sack ?


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Mon 28 May 2018, 3:02 pm

clivemcl wrote:Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

I believe you've answered your own question clive....
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 28 May 2018, 3:18 pm

Olding has signed for Brive. Fair play.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 28 May 2018, 3:19 pm

Olding signs for Brive, great to hear someone has seen sense at last.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 28 May 2018, 3:19 pm

Haha beat you to it

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Mon 28 May 2018, 3:20 pm

Jeremy Davidson is the head coach there now too

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Mon 28 May 2018, 3:44 pm

rodders wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

I believe you've answered your own question clive....

Yea I guess, so are we to believe that coaching setups at clubs just don't have as much time to do these similar tasks? I just don't know. Kinda feel international coaching is a bit more of an armchair ride. More pressure and expectation probably, but surely less actual work throughout the year?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Mon 28 May 2018, 3:54 pm

clivemcl wrote:
rodders wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

I believe you've answered your own question clive....

Yea I guess, so are we to believe that coaching setups at clubs just don't have as much time to do these similar tasks? I just don't know. Kinda feel international coaching is a bit more of an armchair ride. More pressure and expectation probably, but surely less actual work throughout the year?

I was going to say that it's probably just different work but given that Andy Farrell assisted with Munster and was due to help out Ulster and Shaun Edwards helped out at Cardiff last season and looks set to do the same with the Dragons next season their workload wouldn't seem to be overwhelming

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 28 May 2018, 4:00 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Haha beat you to it

That's what he can say to Paddy

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Mon 28 May 2018, 4:28 pm

clivemcl wrote:
rodders wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

I believe you've answered your own question clive....

Yea I guess, so are we to believe that coaching setups at clubs just don't have as much time to do these similar tasks? I just don't know. Kinda feel international coaching is a bit more of an armchair ride. More pressure and expectation probably, but surely less actual work throughout the year?

I mean again I think you've answered it but I would presume the same.

Club coach you would imagine is more full on throughout the year. Whereas at international it is going to be building towards 2 or 3 peaks in the season and then the RWC every 4 years.

Obviously an international coach does far less hands on coaching but then has to prepare a squad to perform at a higher level with much less contact time with the players.

In a central system like Ireland the national head coach will have a remit to work with the club and underage coaches too to make sure there is synergy within the system.

I seriously doubt either job is an armchair ride, I'm guessing they don't sit twiddling their thumbs between 6N and the summer/autumn internationals.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by neilthom7 on Mon 28 May 2018, 4:57 pm

rodders wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
rodders wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

I believe you've answered your own question clive....

Yea I guess, so are we to believe that coaching setups at clubs just don't have as much time to do these similar tasks? I just don't know. Kinda feel international coaching is a bit more of an armchair ride. More pressure and expectation probably, but surely less actual work throughout the year?

I mean again I think you've answered it but I would presume the same.

Club coach you would imagine is more full on throughout the year. Whereas at international it is going to be building towards 2 or 3 peaks in the season and then the RWC every 4 years.

Obviously an international coach does far less hands on coaching but then has to prepare a squad to perform at a higher level with much less contact time with the players.

In a central system like Ireland the national head coach will have a remit to work with the club and underage coaches too to make sure there is synergy within the system.

I seriously doubt either job is an armchair ride, I'm guessing they don't sit twiddling their thumbs between 6N and the summer/autumn internationals.      

I imagine right now Joe's job involves sitting outside Joey carbery's house a lot

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 28 May 2018, 5:43 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote: Why should the IRFU exclude Cunningham from the clear-out, when he has a questionable track record and publicly criticised them? If he is just another D4 puppet overseeing the blood-letting, then surely his reward would be an IRFU job to stay at Ulster as their inside man.

With regard to his questionable track record it is now clear Kiss was the ultimate decider on all contracts.
Initially Cunningham was brought in because neither Logan or Kiss had any clue whatsoever about Rugby contracts and now it appears that was the extent of his role + a bit of PR
As the Poopie hit the fan he found himself the only man standing and as such I suspect the IRFU are working with him to sort out the mess

Phrases like 'D4 puppet' and 'stay at Ulster as their inside man' quite frankly are nonsense.
His loyalty is always to Ulster first but, rightly in my view, in order to get us back on track, he needs to work with the IRFU not against them.
I also think Nucifora recognises that Cunningham is the only show in town with respect to getting Ulster back up to speed and fully functioning.
I have no doubt there will criticisms and disagreements along the way  

With respect Geoff, can I remind you who suggested the "nonsense" that Bryn's strings are being pulled by the IRFU with the promise of a job?
geoff999rugby wrote:Increasingly looks to me like the remit is get rid of the lot and start again.
Is it Cunningham role to manage this before getting his reward with some sort of IRFU job ? - would not surprise me

Regarding track record, if Cunningham wasn't able to stand up to Kiss and Logan, why would he be able to stand up to Nucifora?

Where to start.
When Logan and Kiss were running the show as I made clear Cunningham role was confined to negotiating the terms of the contracts as neither of them has a clue.
It was not up to him to stand up to them - he simply didn't have the authority.
Now my belief based on what I have been told, what I have seen and what I would surmise is that at some point this year the IRFU decided that the management structure at Ulster
needed tearing down and built up again from scratch. I surmise they already knew Gibbes was away so would not be part of the new set up.
Looking around the only person they could see who understood Ulster, have a commercial and a rugby brain was Cunningham so his remit was considerably widenend to oversee the transformation.
My conjecture, is that, by his own admission Bryn does not see Ulster having a Director of Rugby going forward; that would seem to be the most obvious role for him in any new set up.
If it doesn't exist what would his role be ?
Cunningham would still make decisions with the best interest of Ulster in mind.
Phrases like 'D4 puppet' and 'stay at Ulster as their inside man' remain nonsense, and are deeply insulting to an honourable decent man.
Just because he is working with the IRFU to sort the mess out doesn't mean he isn't true to his Ulster roots.

At the same time it is a huge undertaking and it may well turn out it is too big for him, especially when we need a new CEO as well, he could fail.
Quite frankly though who else is there ?
It is also reasonable to suggest, which is all I did, that he may get a reward from the IRFU for undertaking this overhaul.
That does not make him their stooge

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by neilthom7 on Mon 28 May 2018, 6:04 pm

That seems fair Geoff. This whole puppet, stooge thing is weird. The IRFU don't need a stooge or spy or whatever in Ulster Rugby, they literally own Ulster Rugby, everyone in Ulster Rugby technically speaking works for the IRFU.
Anyone in a higher up position will have to work with and take orders from the IRFU, they can't argue with the IRFU best they can do is make the case for something different to the IRFU but at the end of the day if they want to then they are going to go ahead and do it anyway.
Bryn can only create a certain amount of fuss with the IRFU, if he crosses that line they will just sack him and I imagine Bryn like the rest of us has bills to pay.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 28 May 2018, 10:04 pm

The original question was
The Great Aukster wrote:
Why should the IRFU exclude Cunningham from the clear-out?
The answer seems to be not that he is the best man for the job, but rather he is the only man for the job.
Being the only one responsible for recruitment of players and coaches, Bryn will now be tested without fear of being overruled, and he has plenty of spaces to fill.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 28 May 2018, 11:19 pm

If the IRFU did not believe Cunningham could do the job he would be cleared out as well, clearly they believe he is capable
of overseeing the transition.

Time will tell if they have good judgement
The only player recruitment that can be laid at his feet is Addison - he is a decent player
There are loads of places to fill, but very few will be.
IRFU insisting on cuts to numbers and to budget.

He is not the only one responsible for recruiting coaches.
Nucifora would have been active in the recruitment of both McFarland and Payne.
The formers salary is paid totally by the IRFU, and the later is seen as one for the future by the IRFU

I don't expect to see any more than 2 or 3 more players coming in

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Sin é on Tue 29 May 2018, 12:22 am

marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
rodders wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

I believe you've answered your own question clive....

Yea I guess, so are we to believe that coaching setups at clubs just don't have as much time to do these similar tasks? I just don't know. Kinda feel international coaching is a bit more of an armchair ride. More pressure and expectation probably, but surely less actual work throughout the year?

I was going to say that it's probably just different work but given that Andy Farrell assisted with Munster and was due to help out Ulster and Shaun Edwards helped out at Cardiff last season and looks set to do the same with the Dragons next season their workload wouldn't seem to be overwhelming

Farrell was on England gardening leave when he was with Munster, he hadn't yet joined the Ireland set-up.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Tue 29 May 2018, 9:04 am

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
rodders wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

I believe you've answered your own question clive....

Yea I guess, so are we to believe that coaching setups at clubs just don't have as much time to do these similar tasks? I just don't know. Kinda feel international coaching is a bit more of an armchair ride. More pressure and expectation probably, but surely less actual work throughout the year?

I was going to say that it's probably just different work but given that Andy Farrell assisted with Munster and was due to help out Ulster and Shaun Edwards helped out at Cardiff last season and looks set to do the same with the Dragons next season their workload wouldn't seem to be overwhelming

Farrell was on England gardening leave when he was with Munster, he hadn't yet joined the Ireland set-up.

Really?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/andy-farrell-to-continue-defence-role-with-munster-1.3315695

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 29 May 2018, 9:14 am

It is my understanding Farrell has been with the Ireland set up since the summer of 2016

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Tue 29 May 2018, 9:33 am

Farrell definitely had a period were he wasn't officially allowed to coach Ireland due to his severance terms with England, the IRFU used him at Munster originally so Sin is correct.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 29 May 2018, 9:45 am

rodders wrote:Farrell definitely had a period were he wasn't officially allowed to coach Ireland due to his severance terms with England, the IRFU used him at Munster originally so Sin is correct.

A period yes but that period is long over and he has recently signed an extension.
You cant sign an extension of something that doesn't exist
So no he isn't correct

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 29 May 2018, 10:48 am

The Indo is speculating that Gibbes may be looking at bringing PJ along with him to New Zealand. Obviously speculation is all this is but where there's smoke there may well be fire.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Sin é on Tue 29 May 2018, 11:17 am

marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
rodders wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

I believe you've answered your own question clive....

Yea I guess, so are we to believe that coaching setups at clubs just don't have as much time to do these similar tasks? I just don't know. Kinda feel international coaching is a bit more of an armchair ride. More pressure and expectation probably, but surely less actual work throughout the year?

I was going to say that it's probably just different work but given that Andy Farrell assisted with Munster and was due to help out Ulster and Shaun Edwards helped out at Cardiff last season and looks set to do the same with the Dragons next season their workload wouldn't seem to be overwhelming

Farrell was on England gardening leave when he was with Munster, he hadn't yet joined the Ireland set-up.

Really?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/andy-farrell-to-continue-defence-role-with-munster-1.3315695

He was in for 4 days coming up to the back-to-back champs cup games before Christmas (when Van Graan had just arrived and before JP arrived). He was only helping out for European games.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Tue 29 May 2018, 11:20 am

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
rodders wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Whilst it's obviously a step up in standard and career, I've always wondered what national coaching teams do for half the year. Just loads of strategy and analysis and watching club games to keep an eye on form? To my untrained eye it seems a lot less 'involved' than coaching at a club. Enlighten me.

I believe you've answered your own question clive....

Yea I guess, so are we to believe that coaching setups at clubs just don't have as much time to do these similar tasks? I just don't know. Kinda feel international coaching is a bit more of an armchair ride. More pressure and expectation probably, but surely less actual work throughout the year?

I was going to say that it's probably just different work but given that Andy Farrell assisted with Munster and was due to help out Ulster and Shaun Edwards helped out at Cardiff last season and looks set to do the same with the Dragons next season their workload wouldn't seem to be overwhelming

Farrell was on England gardening leave when he was with Munster, he hadn't yet joined the Ireland set-up.

Really?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/andy-farrell-to-continue-defence-role-with-munster-1.3315695

He was in for 4 days coming up to the back-to-back champs cup games before Christmas (when Van Graan had just arrived and before JP arrived). He was only helping out for European games.

Not sure why you're getting in a tizzy over this

He had the time available to go and assist, I'm just highlighting what was being discussed about national coaches maybe not having the same workload as a club coach

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Tue 29 May 2018, 11:34 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
rodders wrote:Farrell definitely had a period were he wasn't officially allowed to coach Ireland due to his severance terms with England, the IRFU used him at Munster originally so Sin is correct.

A period yes but that period is long over and he has recently signed an extension.
You cant sign an extension of something that doesn't exist
So no he isn't correct

??

Farrell was seconded to Munster after signing with the IRFU, as he was not allowed to coach Ireland as per his England contract terms. This is what Sin said, in response to the comments about his workload and he is correct -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Farrell

On 6 January 2016 it was announced that Farrell would take up the role of Ireland defence coach after the completion of the 2016 Six Nations Championship. As his previous contract with England prevented him from working with an international team until April 2016, Farrell joined Irish province Munster in January 2016 in a temporary advisor role that was to last for four months.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 29 May 2018, 12:36 pm

Whoops - misread Sin é post

Sorry picard

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Tue 29 May 2018, 2:00 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Whoops - misread Sin é post

Sorry picard

Probably the heat Geoff cider
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 29 May 2018, 4:07 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:The Indo is speculating that Gibbes may be looking at bringing PJ along with him to New Zealand. Obviously speculation is all this is but where there's smoke there may well be fire.

Yeah I head that too. Apparently to the Waikato Chiefs. That would be really cool. Damian McKensie is Oh there so not sure how much game time he would get although I reckon McKensie is more a fullback that an OH but with the RWC coming up Id say he will be played at OH as he seems to be back up to Barrett for the ABs.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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