World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

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World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 11 Apr 2018, 8:58 pm

The World Cup is soon to be upon us, with Russia hosting a controversial tournament that has got about as much political intrigue attached to it as footballing interest.  Germany won their 4th World Cup four years ago in Brazil and go into this tournament amongst the favourites. Spain, Brazil and France make up the other four major players, with Argentina, Portugal and Belgium all tipped to make inroads too.

Even England are there, which is more than any other Home Nation (or Ireland) could achieve this time around, although some might say this is a good one to miss considering the nature of the questions surrounding the awarding of host status, poisonings, violence and political landscapes.  

The tournament runs from June 14th (kicking off with Russia vs Saudi Arabia) to July 15th, when the final will take place and a winner decided.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 14 May 2018, 10:40 am

think we all need a dutys england are going to win 2018 thread to give us some much needed optimism

always love the world cup (england disappointing aside). we doing a fantasy football again?

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Tue 15 May 2018, 11:53 am

Joe Hart told he won’t be included in the England squad for the World Cup

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Beer on Tue 15 May 2018, 11:54 am

Great news, means Pope is going.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 15 May 2018, 12:16 pm

He’s had an atrocious season, think his shot stopping was listed as third worst and he’s made so many big mistakes. Had a chance to build on a great performance against Chelsea and blew it.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Beer on Tue 15 May 2018, 12:18 pm

Can't see him staying at West Ham either.

Also, good luck in your battle against the ECB, Dolph.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 15 May 2018, 12:22 pm

He’ll only stay on if we’re being extra cheap, but it seems very unlikely. Hard to see where he goes; few teams need a keeper.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Marky on Tue 15 May 2018, 4:34 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:He’ll only stay on if we’re being extra cheap, but it seems very unlikely. Hard to see where he goes; few teams need a keeper.

Wolves.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Marky on Tue 15 May 2018, 4:35 pm

I think the unpopular but versatile players will be in the England squad even though they aren't the best in their positions.

Like Trippier, Delph and Young.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Tue 15 May 2018, 6:43 pm

Wilshere misses out

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by compelling and rich on Tue 15 May 2018, 8:18 pm

more surprised at wilshere than hart. perhaps southgate lacks the faith that he can last under tournament conditions. but were not exactly crying out for good cm's. not his biggest fan but would have taken him as a option on the bench at least

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 16 May 2018, 12:10 am

Joe Hart blames Moyes for not being selected Laugh

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by dummy_half on Wed 16 May 2018, 7:28 am

Marky

Agree with your thinking - a tournament squad usually needs a couple of guys who can cover 2 or 3 positions acceptably, as with Milner in the last few squads.

c and r
Agree with your points - Wilshere is technically probably our best CM, and certainly offers something different from the others. Question marks over his fitness / durability and I wonder about his attitude.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 16 May 2018, 8:13 am

dummy_half wrote:Marky

Agree with your thinking - a tournament squad usually needs a couple of guys who can cover 2 or 3 positions acceptably, as with Milner in the last few squads.

c and r
Agree with your points - Wilshere is technically probably our best CM, and certainly offers something different from the others. Question marks over his fitness / durability and I wonder about his attitude.

With Oxlade Chamberlain out, Wilshere or Shelvey should have been in as our creative/different CMs in my opinion, especially as the rumour is somehow Livermore has made it Doh
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Ent on Wed 16 May 2018, 8:54 am

Don't think wilshere can play one game a week regularly never mind more often, rules him out of tournament football. Also over rated.

Surprised hart missed out, know the 3rd choice keeper is unlikely to play but if injury or suspension hits do you want to see an uncapped guy with 1 season as a starting goal keeper coming on in a high pressure World Cup game?

Slim pickings for the squad, hence so much discussion around it imo.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by owen10ozzy on Wed 16 May 2018, 10:17 am

Im glad Hart has been left out, hasnt performed so shouldnt be in the side...simple as that. Whether its as 1st or 3rd choice. Pope has been incredible and would have been a travesty to see him miss out...also would have sent completely the wrong message.

I remember when Southgate took the job he claimed that players would have to show they were in good form and prove their fitness to make the teams. Now we are discussing Lallana who has barely strung half dozen games together. I cant imagine too many shock calls up in the squad but can imagine a couple of head scratches. If Livermore makes the squad its embarassing...wouldnt make the Panama team!

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Wed 16 May 2018, 2:13 pm

England Squad

Butland, Pickford, Pope

Alexander-Arnold, Cahill, Delph, Jones, Maguire, Rose, Stones, Trippier, Walker, Young

Alli, Loftus-Cheek, Dier, Henderson, Lingard

Kane, Welbeck, Vardy, Rashford, Sterling

Not sure how Loftus-Cheek is anywhere near that squad. We’ve got six wing-backs. Lewis Cook is a reserve, but Shelvey isn’t picard

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by owen10ozzy on Wed 16 May 2018, 2:17 pm

Rose isnt even 1st choice for Spurs but is in...

Lewis Dunk - check his stats this season...Top 3 in almost every stat and hasnt even been discussed.

The midfield is so so poor for England...you know your in trouble when Livermore is a stand by! And as others have said...those in charge dont make life better when they leave out the better players anyway!

Kane and Sterling are the obvious threats in that team...and since Sterling does little for England I doubt even Tunisia and Panama are panicking too much!


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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by No name Bertie on Wed 16 May 2018, 2:31 pm

When Iceland beat England in the European Championship, England were playing against players that included players from the Championship and I think League One as well.  There seems to be a strong tendency with the England selection to focus predominantly on players playing or warming the bench for the top six sides in the Premier League.


Last edited by No name Bertie on Wed 16 May 2018, 2:33 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by GSC on Wed 16 May 2018, 2:32 pm

I don't hate that squad. No obvious names that were breaking down the door for me, though I'd rather have taken Sessegnon over Welbeck.

I'll set par at getting out of the group, beyond that...
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 16 May 2018, 3:08 pm

GSC wrote:I don't hate that squad. No obvious names that were breaking down the door for me, though I'd rather have taken Sessegnon over Welbeck.

I'll set par at getting out of the group, beyond that...

For me Delph and Welbeck are the only ones I'd take issue with (I'd have gone with Lallana and Shelvey in ahead of those two), otherwise I don't think there can be many complaints - it's not exactly like we've a huge pool to choose from and are leaving out good players...

I think a good tournament would be getting to the quarter finals, albeit I expect a round of 16 exit.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Wed 16 May 2018, 4:34 pm

Most probable:

—————————-Pickford————————-
—————-Walker—Stones——?——————
-Trippier—————————————Rose/Young-
—————-Henderson——Dier———————
————————Alli/Lingard————————-
—————-Sterling————Kane——————

Expect him to utilise the Alli & Kane partnership, so Lingard drops out. Rose or Young at LB, and a toss up of who is at LCB. No alternatives to that depressing central midfield, unless RLC is miraculously thrown in.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 16 May 2018, 7:03 pm

Almost exactly the squad I’d have named.

Can’t believe you are moaning about Loftus-Cheek! Bet you’d have picked Shelvey Laugh

Maybe a full back option too many, but Delph is a better midfielder than any in reserve. Wilshere unlucky, but not sure he’d fit tournament football. 

Welbeck getting in based on the alternative being Glenn Murray

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by GSC on Wed 16 May 2018, 7:33 pm

Its a pretty inoffensive squad when the main controversy is Jonjo Shelvey not being involved.

I'd rather have taken Sessegnon as a wing back/wing option over some of the names there, especially given their chances of getting a game are close to null.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 4:49 pm

England: Pickford, Trippier, Young, Walker, Stones, Cahill, Lingard, Dier, Kane, Sterling, Alli.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 5:25 pm

England 2-1 Nigeria - FT


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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 7:55 pm

Solid performance, good first half, just seemed to drift as a game in the second

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by GSC on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 8:56 pm

Felt like an experimental team more than what is likely to line up in the WC. Game was played at about 70% intensity
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 10:47 am

Decent first half display, but as soon as Nigeria made the tactical switch in the second half, they dealt with us relatively comfortably. Southgate's tactical nous in question, as he didn't react accordingly, hence why the game fizzled out.

Once again, Sterling (2 goals in 38 apps) was abysmal alongside Kane. Would ideally like to see Vardy, who with his pace, offers actual goal threat, unlike Sterling. Expect Henderson & Rose to come in to the team, at the expense of Young and Lingard.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by GSC on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 11:52 am

Wary of reading too much into this game, it was very much treated like the friendly it was.

Young did ok, Rose looked rusty when he came on. Trippier doesn't really do enough going forward to justify playing wing back in this system, think England have to seriously consider moving Walker back.

Midfield was a mish mash but that's mostly a result of the options currently available. Expect Henderson for Lingard as above.

Don't really see the Vardy calls, Southgate isn't likely to drop Sterling for a pure out and out forward in Vardy. Late in games, he'll be a valuable impact sub though.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by compelling and rich on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:04 pm

thought we played well first half (sterling wastefulness aside) and were woeful in second.

think there are still plenty of concerns, soon as nigeria came at us we looked very shaky at the back. kane, ali and sterling our biggest attacking players look nothing like they do for their club sides when in a england shirt.

thought lingard put his name forward and for me id play him, our biggest threat will be pace on the break. ali and kane slow it down too much. stick rashford/sterling and lingard around kane and we can bypass him and still have a threat

got to play players who fit the system and not shoehorn the best players (on paper) into a system like we have done for many years

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 1:21 pm

I’m not starting Alli in my best eleven, unless he plays deeper in central midfield (which he is capable of and it annoys me Southgate didn’t look at it)

Not sure I’d play Young either. Constant cutting back for the inswining right footed cross with only Kane gonna benefit. I’d rather Rose or Delph. 

Hope Trent gets a go at right back too, but I fancy Southgate wants Trippier for crossing and set pieces. I’d assume one of Young or Trippier is nailed on because of that

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by dummy_half on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 11:59 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I’m not starting Alli in my best eleven, unless he plays deeper in central midfield (which he is capable of and it annoys me Southgate didn’t look at it)

Not sure I’d play Young either. Constant cutting back for the inswining right footed cross with only Kane gonna benefit. I’d rather Rose or Delph. 

Hope Trent gets a go at right back too, but I fancy Southgate wants Trippier for crossing and set pieces. I’d assume one of Young or Trippier is nailed on because of that

We look reasonably good when we can lift the tempo and get players in behind the defence (for all of Sterling's wastefulness, he got into 2 or 3 really good situations), and for me playing Young on the left totally counters the rest of the tactics. Yes, he's sound on the ball, but it is so predictable that he will cut back or inside at which point everything slows down.

Generally, I like the system Southgate has us playing, as it seems to make the best of the relatively mediocre squad we have, but there are certainly still a few tweaks and a few spots up for grabs.

Oh, and please no midfield duo of Dier and Henderson...

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 11:57 am

Leroy Sané left out of German WC squad

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:00 pm

Just John wrote:Leroy Sané left out of German WC squad

and to think we were debating shelvey Laugh

i would take him over ozil,draxler or brandt

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by owen10ozzy on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:31 pm

You know you have a class national team when you can afford to leave Sane at home for the World Cup!!

France Omissions: Martial, Lacazette, Coman, Payet, Rabiot

Spain Omissions: Alonso, Fabregas, Javi Martinez, Bartra, Sergi Roberto, Morata

Germany Omissions; Sane, Max, Gotze, Wagner

Brazil Omissions: Neto, Sandro, Gustavo

Argentina left out Icardi....Belgium  Nainggolan...

Meanwhile our half debated omissions were...Shelvey and Wilshere!


That being said...we did look decent enough the other day against Nigeria although the obvious worry was how easily we were figured out. I did see a comment about it being an experimental team....not sure I agree as 80% of that team will start come Russia.

Dier and Henderson are definitely starting!!

I just pray to god someone keeps Kane away from free kicks and corners this time!!! PLEASE GOD!

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:50 pm

Sterling is looking more and more a good prem player who cant produce at international level.
Woeful on Saturday once again. And don't get me started on that dive!

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Thu 07 Jun 2018, 9:52 pm

England 2-0 Costa Rica FT


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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by dummy_half on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 7:19 am

Just John wrote:England 2-0 Costa Rica FT


Again a competent performance and one that probably gives Southgate a few positions to think about.

I think the following are definite to start in the first game of the WC:
Pickford
Walker-Stones-...
Trippier-Lingard-Dier-...-...
Kane-...

I think Rose did enough yesterday to show he's fit, and gives a better shape to the side in attack than Young does, and so expect him to play left wing back.

Left side defender: I like Maguire's willingness to bring the ball out and link into midfield, but Cahill is probably the better defender. Really just depends on what Southgate wants.

'Inside left' midfield: Delph was good last night and I think put himself into the frame. Alli has been good in parts and sloppy in others, and RLC offers some power and skill. It's a difficult one to call. Please not Henderson alongside Dier, just one or other in the single holding position.

2nd striker: Vardy hardly got a kick last night, which happens too often (OK, he doesn't need many touches to score goals) and for me he's an impact sub for when we're trailing. Sterling's pros (skill on the ball, pace and movement) and cons (lack of end product) have been discussed already. Rashford had a good game yesterday, but does lose possession quite a lot both by taking on too many defenders and sometimes sloppy passing. Welbeck surely there as a squad player only (although no-one can question either his workrate or knack of scoring goals for England). I'd be quite surprised if Sterling doesn't start the first game

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 8:19 am

in this formation feel like rashford and kane should be the partnership. sterling isnt a striker and will drop deep encroaching on ali/lingard postion. also despite him scoring over 20 goals this season feel like rashford is the bigger threat. you put sterling in a poor side he'd struggle to get 10 goals, couldnt say the same about rashford

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by dummy_half on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 2:47 pm

c and r

I largely agree with you above, if I was picking the team I'd be looking to start Rashford rather than Sterling, but I expect Southgate to go the other way as he seems to like Sterling and what he offers as a 'ball carrying' player.

If I was picking I'd go with Maguire at left half and RLC as the third midfielder (I think he offers the best compromise between creativity and solidity), but I'd be surprised if Southgate doesn't pick Cahill and Alli. No real problems with those, just as long as we don't see a reversion to Henderson and Dier as a holding pair in midfield...

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 2:52 pm

Why can't Rashford and Sterling play together? Them two with Kane, and Dier/Alli deeper would be my choice. Maybe a tad harsh on Lingard, but I think Rashford and Sterling are our real match winners, so I'd have them both in
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 3:03 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Why can't Rashford and Sterling play together? Them two with Kane, and Dier/Alli deeper would be my choice. Maybe a tad harsh on Lingard, but I think Rashford and Sterling are our real match winners, so I'd have them both in

southgate has already said hes sticking with the 3-5-2 formation. not sure alli is capable of playing deeper, at best he'd be a round peg in a square hole. also in that formation majority of your width is covered by the wing backs. for it to work you need two proper strikers or someone who's very good in behind like hazard does at chelsea (something we dont have)

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 3:09 pm

dummy_half wrote:c and r

I largely agree with you above, if I was picking the team I'd be looking to start Rashford rather than Sterling, but I expect Southgate to go the other way as he seems to like Sterling and what he offers as a 'ball carrying' player.

If I was picking I'd go with Maguire at left half and RLC as the third midfielder (I think he offers the best compromise between creativity and solidity), but I'd be surprised if Southgate doesn't pick Cahill and Alli. No real problems with those, just as long as we don't see a reversion to Henderson and Dier as a holding pair in midfield...

cahill is a worry on the ball. probably the best defender that we have but when pressed he can be error prone and we seem adamant with playing it out from the back.

on the other point id also use performances in a england shirt as why i would pick rashford over sterling. sterling has generally been poor. 2 goals in 32 games as one of our main attacking players is very worrying. especially in a team that looks like it will struggle to create already

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Just John on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 3:10 pm

Lanzini done his ACL and out of World Cup. I imagine his 2018 is pretty much done and dusted too.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 08 Jun 2018, 3:14 pm

Just John wrote:Lanzini done his ACL and out of World Cup. I imagine his 2018 is pretty much done and dusted too.

like lanzini aswell, do a job at many of the top sides. problem being is his injury record is quite worrying

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My predictions for England

Post by Riggs on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 9:45 am

England won't make it past the semi finals.

Brazil to face Germany again and lose again.

Considering the matches, this WC tournament has to be the most predictable.

I hope Costa Rica go even further this time round.


France to progress further than England.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by westisbest on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 9:56 am

Hoping Nigeria can do well. Always have a soft spot for them, since younger days living there.

C’mon the super eagles.

Never been a huge fan of world cups(even the few Ireland have been in).

Can never really get excited about it.

Will watch a few games.
Hopefully the under dogs can shine and there be a few upsets.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by GSC on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 9:24 am

Spain considering whether to sack their coach apparently
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

Post by Uryu Ishida on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 11:08 am

GSC wrote:Spain considering whether to sack their coach apparently

AND HE IS OUTTA HERE!

why? I woulda kept him on until after the World Cup...

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Pre-tournament discussion

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