Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

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Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by Brendan on Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:40 pm

I know he divides opinion but well done to Ashton who has got 22 tries with 5 games left breaking the previous record of 21 set in 08-09

He has scored against 10 of the 13 teams.  Always seems to be on the shoulder of the ball carrier looking for the ball when breaks were on.

It is probably isn't by chance that Sarries have been less effective this year and aren't their usual clinical self.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by yappysnap on Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:56 pm

By far one of the best club wingers of all time. Sadly his personality and politics never really let him get a fair crack at the Int game.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by Rugby Fan on Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:26 am

If Ashton had stayed in English rugby, he might not have made the starting line-up for Jones but he offers as much, if not more, than Solomona, who has been given chances. Solomona also managed to get kicked out of an England camp, and banned for racist abuse allegations.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by whocares on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:50 am

Ashton has been Toulon best player this season and truth be told he reallly exceeded my expectations. Even in defense he has been solid (against Münster for instance).

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:01 am

Unfortunately for Ashton he tends to upset people. Which is a shame because he's a high quality finisher. His defence is a little ragged at times but he doesn't want for commitment. You can't argue with his numbers, the man is a try scoring machine despite the fact many are bigger, faster and more powerful not many get over the line more frequently.

Any young winger wanting to make a breakthrough should be watching how he tracks play because his work rate and eye for a break from a colleague is what sets him apart.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by yappysnap on Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:30 am

So true Sam. He makes it look easy too but if it was more would do it. As it is I can't think of any wings that track play half as well as he does.

I remember a few seasons back BT showing him moving around the pitch getting his hands on the ball and shadowing runners, he was all over the place, must be exhausting but it works.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:32 am

Danny Care said on the Five Live podcast that Ashton was the fittest player in England camps. He regular lasted longest in yo-yo tests, with Alex Goode often second.

Didn't know that about him.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by George Carlin on Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:31 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Unfortunately for Ashton he tends to upset people. Which is a shame because he's a high quality finisher. His defence is a little ragged at times but he doesn't want for commitment. You can't argue with his numbers, the man is a try scoring machine despite the fact many are bigger, faster and more powerful not many get over the line more frequently.

Agree completely with this - Ashton seems to polarise England fans as much as any player that I remember.

If the point of a winger is to score tries, then he has to be regarded as prolific by any standards. I have seen him interviewed and he is actually a good lad - his only crime is looking like a bit of a gobsh!te.
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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:49 am

He would have still.been playing for England but his tries dried up and once they did other wingers were offering more in other facets of play.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by LondonTiger on Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:41 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:He would have still.been playing for England but his tries dried up and once they did other wingers were offering more in other facets of play.

I think that the style of play that the Lancaster regime wanted did not suit the skills that Ashton brought - under Johnson he scored 15 tries in 18 matches, under Lancaster it was 4 tries in 21 matches.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by The Oracle on Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:09 am

He’s rubbish. Wouldn’t get into my village side Whistle
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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:31 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:He would have still.been playing for England but his tries dried up and once they did other wingers were offering more in other facets of play.

I think that the style of play that the Lancaster regime wanted did not suit the skills that Ashton brought - under Johnson he scored 15 tries in 18 matches, under Lancaster it was 4 tries in 21 matches.

Lancaster, particularly towards the end of his tenure liked to listen to Farrell Snr and his league style run the centres into contact mantra. Wasn't much for Ashton to feed off and as we liked kicking the ball away his attacking skills were increasingly not required.

I think he could have looked good under the Jones regimes but Eddie doesn't seem to fancy him.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:35 pm

He put the final.nail in the coffin himself getting banned.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by LondonTiger on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:40 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:He put the final.nail in the coffin himself getting banned.

Was that before or after he refused to go on the Saxons tour?

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:44 pm

After I think. Ais wasn't it after the hands near eyes thing.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:59 pm

Seems a farcical ban now when you see what the Scottish lad got away with in the 6N. Still that refusal to tour with the Saxons would have left him deeply in Jones bad books.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:31 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:After I think. Ais wasn't it after the hands near eyes thing.
Thatt was earlier, with Luke Marshall.

Ashton was selected in Jones first squad, for the 2016 Six Nations, but he was ruled out for a gouging ban that was regarded at the time as very harsh. When, later in the season, Owen Franks escaped without punishment for an arguably clearer offence, it looked even harsher.

Jones could have selected Ashton for the 2016 summer tour to Australia but he went with Yarde instead. I think that was a bad call. Ashton was in good club form, and it was an early chance to see what he could do. Jones said later he liked Yarde's bad boy attitude. Ashton was named for the Saxon's tour but his wife was expecting, and Jones agreed he could stay (just as he allowed Marler to skip a tour to get his head straight). Virtually all the players who went on that Saxons tour have never been looked at again by Jones, so it's hard to say that was a bad call.

The next chance Ashton had to get selected was autumn 2016 but he picked up a 13 week ban for biting, which looks even harsher than the one for Luke Marshall (obviously, it was influenced by the fact he'd just had an earlier ban). It's not clear that he would have got a sniff anyway, because Jones didn't widen his pool after a successful summer tour, which is why all those Saxons players remained ignored.

Personally, I think Ashton would have been an asset to Jones, especially seeing the way he has tried to include Solomona.

There are a lot of players available for Jones to select but there are two unavailable that could have helped him: Carl Fearns and Chris Ashton. Fearns was on the verge of returning to England but found Jones a bit antagonistic, and uncommital. Meanwhile, Brad Shields got enough feedback from Jones to convince him to ditch his chance at an All Black shirt, and try his luck in England. I think Jones tried to play mind games with Fearns and misread his man. He should have told him what he told Shields.

With Ashton, I don't think Jones expected him to leave for France, I think he assumed he'd stick with Saracens because they were top dogs. He didn't understand Ashton's frustration with the lottery-style nature of his bans, and the lack of any encouragement from England meant Ashton had even less incentive to put up with that situation.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:45 pm

Ah. Wrong ban. Personally I think ashton did deserve his bans but the others got off light. Definitely needs to be a priority for wr though.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by propdavid_london on Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:53 pm

Playing 15 for Toulon appears to be getting more ball to him - obviously having a positive affect on his game.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by sensisball on Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:11 pm

He has also arrived at the right time at Toulon. The new coaches are keen to get Toulon playing a faster, offloading game which had lead to more tries for the wingers as well as the rest of the team. The Argentinian back rower Isa has been magnificent as well as the former rugby league star from Oz, playing well at 13 as well as on the wing.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by doctor_grey on Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:08 pm

Chris Ashton broke the Top 14 Try scoring record with 5 games to go? Wow. A real future in the International game for that lad..............

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by Brendan on Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:41 am

doctor_grey wrote:Chris Ashton broke the Top 14 Try scoring record with 5 games to go?  Wow.  A real future in the International game for that lad..............  

While it's tongue in cheek if he had been from one of the Pro12 nations he would have about 75 caps and about 30-40 trys. And he wouldn't swan dive.

Problem he had was he was from a country where you make it or you get moved on. As Tiger said he had a poor run and was put on the scrap heap for the next up and coming player. New Zealand are the same where their top wingers hit a bump and are tossed to the side. Only reason Stockdale got in was because Zebo removed himself. Look at Visser's record for Scotland

Ashton will be remembered for his try records. He has the Champs Cup record and could be the first to break 50 trys in the competition

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by Gooseberry on Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:44 pm

Brendan wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Chris Ashton broke the Top 14 Try scoring record with 5 games to go?  Wow.  A real future in the International game for that lad..............  

While it's tongue in cheek if he had been from one of the Pro12 nations he would have about 75 caps and about 30-40 trys.  And he wouldn't swan dive.

Problem he had was he was from a country where you make it or you get moved on.  As Tiger said he had a poor run and was put on the scrap heap for the next up and coming player.  New Zealand are the same where their top wingers hit a bump and are tossed to the side.  Only reason Stockdale got in was because Zebo removed himself.  Look at Visser's record for Scotland

Ashton will be remembered for his try records.  He has the Champs Cup record and could be the first to break 50 trys in the competition
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-insulted-humiliated-swan-dives-over-8631962

The rest is largely true, but I dont thiunk its a bad thing he was dropped. It didnt happen overnight either ..he scored 4 tries in his last 22 tests including a run of 11 tests in 13 months without a score, not many 5 nations wingers would keep getting picked after that.

And its now nearly 4 years on since he was last capped ... its taken him 3 seasons to really find his happy place and be back breaking records. Would he have done that at all if he was still under the scrutiny and media pressure he'd struggled to handle before? Its unlikely.

Jones' England has almost entirely utilised wingers with much more rounded skillsets (like a vague interest in tackling) ...Watson, May, Nowell and Daly all have played fullback at club level.  They arent exactly shabby when it comes to their own intenational try scoring rates either. Even Ashton at his best isnt what the team is built around.

Interesting youd bring up Visser...Scotland stopped picking him despite still being a try scoring machine at club and test level. And improved.

Absolutely though Ashtons try scoring feats are pretty remarkable, even with a mid career dip. Maybe he didnt realise his potential at test level, but hes always been a flawed player with a suspect tempremant.  A hell of an asset for a club though, espeically as hes actually available for the whole season and not spending the summer getting beaten up in SANZAR.

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Re: Chris Ashton breaks Top 14 try-scoring record

Post by doctor_grey on Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:08 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Brendan wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Chris Ashton broke the Top 14 Try scoring record with 5 games to go?  Wow.  A real future in the International game for that lad..............  

While it's tongue in cheek if he had been from one of the Pro12 nations he would have about 75 caps and about 30-40 trys.  And he wouldn't swan dive.

Problem he had was he was from a country where you make it or you get moved on.  As Tiger said he had a poor run and was put on the scrap heap for the next up and coming player.  New Zealand are the same where their top wingers hit a bump and are tossed to the side.  Only reason Stockdale got in was because Zebo removed himself.  Look at Visser's record for Scotland

Ashton will be remembered for his try records.  He has the Champs Cup record and could be the first to break 50 trys in the competition
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-insulted-humiliated-swan-dives-over-8631962

The rest is largely true, but I dont thiunk its a bad thing he was dropped. It didnt happen overnight either ..he scored 4 tries in his last 22 tests including a run of 11 tests in 13 months without a score, not many 5 nations wingers would keep getting picked after that.

And its now nearly 4 years on since he was last capped ... its taken him 3 seasons to really find his happy place and be back breaking records. Would he have done that at all if he was still under the scrutiny and media pressure he'd struggled to handle before? Its unlikely.

Jones' England has almost entirely utilised wingers with much more rounded skillsets (like a vague interest in tackling) ...Watson, May, Nowell and Daly all have played fullback at club level.  They arent exactly shabby when it comes to their own intenational try scoring rates either. Even Ashton at his best isnt what the team is built around.

Interesting youd bring up Visser...Scotland stopped picking him despite still being a try scoring machine at club and test level. And improved.

Absolutely though Ashtons try scoring feats are pretty remarkable, even with a mid career dip. Maybe he didnt realise his potential at test level, but hes always been a flawed player with a suspect tempremant.  A hell of an asset for a club though, espeically as hes actually available for the whole season and not spending the summer getting beaten up in SANZAR.
Well, really about Ashton's mid-career drop in form.........
And I am not trying to start a race war with the Londoners, but when Ashton played for Saints, he was still scoring lots 'o tries.  Only when he left the lush surroundings of the Midlands and went to the big city (I forget the name of the club), did his try scoring drought start.  He was tougher when at Saints too:  When at Saints he could take a major league punch from Manu Tuilagi.  Once he left, I bet he would have gone down faster than a £10 courtesan.

Just sayin'

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