Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

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Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Tramptastic on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 1:06 pm

Sunday 10th June 2018

Canada Vs Scotland

Sunday 17th June 2018

America Vs Scotland

Saturday 23rd June 2018

Argentina Vs Scotland



With an eye on the summer tour, whilst also keeping in mind the season isn't over for either of our pro teams - who would you "rest" for the summer tour and who would you bring along in their place?

I'd leave Russell, Price, WP Nel, Hogg, Dunbar, Barclay and Huw Jones purely because those guys have had extremely long seasons, are coming back from long term injuries and/or rarely (if ever) get a full pre-season with their clubs under their belts.

Dunbar is made of glass and could probably do with a summer of conditioning, same with WP Nel

Hogg, Jones and Russell have all had long seasons (lions tours/southern hemisphere seasons) and look a bit jaded.

Price is just off form and could do with some down time.

Barclay is getting on - would not like to injure our captain against America/Canada

With a world cup next year giving all of these guys a full pre-season could pay off in the long term.

Would also allow Townsend to have a closer look at Kinghorn, SHC/Horne (ideally take both and tell Fowles to f3ck off), Grigg, Chris Dean/Johnston/Bennett, Fagerson/Berghan/Mccalum, Bradbury.

Thoughts?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 1:40 pm

Not gonna lie, had to Google what Darien Scheme was!

I agree with your general point about resting some players, and it will be interesting to see who Townsend rests.

Nel is an interesting one, as he's hardly played in 2 seasons - remember he had other injuries before his latest setback. I don't think he needs a full rest and pre-season as he will have done a lot of rehab and fitness while out injured, so he should be in pretty good shape. The man needs game and the summer tour would be a good time to give him that.

Even if we introduced a number of changes we should have enough to beat USA and Canada. We may lose to Argentina putting out a reserve team but it would be a good learning experience.

The only thing that might make him want to pick our front line players is that we're a year away from the world cup and he may want more time with his squad.

I'd like to see something like the following against USA and Canada

1 Dell (needs gametime)
2 Turner
3 Fagerson (see Dell)
4 Gilchrist
5 Cummings
6 Bradbury
7 Ritchie
8 Denton (time to see if he's got a future for Scotland)

9 Horne
10 Hastings
11 Jones
12 Dean
13 Bennett
14 Fife
15 Kinghorn

Subs - Marfo, Malcolm, Nel, Toolis, Fagerson, SHC, Jackson, Grigg

I suspect he won't put out that green a team but would be interesting to see!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Tramptastic on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 1:50 pm

See with regards to Nel it would be crushing if he'd done all this work to get back for the end of the season only to get broken in a game against Canada - imagine how depressing that would be! In terms of mental and emotional fatigue that would be horrendous.

Would much prefer to see Berghan and Fagerson swapping throughout the tour, we know what Nel can do so lets send out the young ones who aren't quite so breakable

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by nickj on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 3:12 pm

Not sure if I'm late to the party on this, but it seems Dan McFarland is working his notice and is hotly tipped for the Ulster head coach role.

'The Scottish Rugby Union has announced McFarland will leave his role in January 2019 but Ulster will hope to secure an earlier release.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43942096

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 3:25 pm

Ulster have announced it now, they may as well have as it was out of the bag.

I think there is a bit of hardball being played over compensation, as he needs to give 9 months notice, but I am sure some cash will sort that out and he will be with Ulster for the start of the season and not in January.

Carl Hogg is going on the summer tour as well as DF as an interim forwards coach.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Tramptastic on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 3:46 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Not gonna lie, had to Google what Darien Scheme was!

Interesting fact of the day: The Darien scheme was the reason we ended up in the Union! Our aristocracy bankrupted the country in a bid to colonise the New World and turned to England to bail us out - the Union was the result.

Aristocrats have a LOT to answer for

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 4:12 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Not gonna lie, had to Google what Darien Scheme was!

Interesting fact of the day: The Darien scheme was the reason we ended up in the Union! Our aristocracy bankrupted the country in a bid to colonise the New World and turned to England to bail us out - the Union was the result.

Aristocrats have a LOT to answer for

They could not have picked a worse place to try and colonise, a mosquito infected swamp in the middle of central America. There is still no road through the Darian Gap even today, it is the only break in the pan American Highway.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Tramptastic on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 4:26 pm

BigGee wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Not gonna lie, had to Google what Darien Scheme was!

Interesting fact of the day: The Darien scheme was the reason we ended up in the Union! Our aristocracy bankrupted the country in a bid to colonise the New World and turned to England to bail us out - the Union was the result.

Aristocrats have a LOT to answer for

They could not have picked a worse place to try and colonise, a mosquito infected swamp in the middle of central America. There is still no road through the Darian Gap even today, it is the only break in the pan American Highway.

Maybe it was after this omnishambles that Scottish folk developed the stereotype for being mean with money? Totally understandable!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by nickj on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 4:28 pm

SHC also rumoured to be heading to Scarlets Crying or Very sad

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Tramptastic on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 4:35 pm

nickj wrote:SHC also rumoured to be heading to Scarlets Crying or Very sad

I was worried nobody was going to pick him up - as fans of Edinburgh we know he's a good scrummy but up until the mid-point of this season he's hardly been setting the heather on fire! I was worried he was going to give up so thank god he's going to a decent team!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 4:39 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Not gonna lie, had to Google what Darien Scheme was!

Interesting fact of the day: The Darien scheme was the reason we ended up in the Union! Our aristocracy bankrupted the country in a bid to colonise the New World and turned to England to bail us out - the Union was the result.

Aristocrats have a LOT to answer for

They could not have picked a worse place to try and colonise, a mosquito infected swamp in the middle of central America. There is still no road through the Darian Gap even today, it is the only break in the pan American Highway.

Maybe it was after this omnishambles that Scottish folk developed the stereotype for being mean with money? Totally understandable!

Apparently that’s due to Aberdonians – when the English were at war with the French they imposed a tax on the whole country, which Aberdonians refused to pay!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Tramptastic on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 4:51 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Not gonna lie, had to Google what Darien Scheme was!

Interesting fact of the day: The Darien scheme was the reason we ended up in the Union! Our aristocracy bankrupted the country in a bid to colonise the New World and turned to England to bail us out - the Union was the result.

Aristocrats have a LOT to answer for

They could not have picked a worse place to try and colonise, a mosquito infected swamp in the middle of central America. There is still no road through the Darian Gap even today, it is the only break in the pan American Highway.

Maybe it was after this omnishambles that Scottish folk developed the stereotype for being mean with money? Totally understandable!

Apparently that’s due to Aberdonians – when the English were at war with the French they imposed a tax on the whole country, which Aberdonians refused to pay!

Did not know that, now outraged that my stereotype has been influenced by Aberdonians, the shame!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by carpet baboon on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 6:30 pm

There is a fantastic documentary on the Darien scheme. Think it was a BBC one but not sure. Will try and find it and post a link.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 7:13 pm

BigGee wrote:Ulster have announced it now, they may as well have as it was out of the bag.

I think there is a bit of hardball being played over compensation, as he needs to give 9 months notice, but I am sure some cash will sort that out and he will be with Ulster for the start of the season and not in January.

Carl Hogg is going on the summer tour as well as DF as an interim forwards coach.

I'm not sure thats a good appointment, we really don't need any of Worcesters special brand of mediocrity in the Scotland team

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by furra_linee on Wed 02 May 2018, 3:39 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Not gonna lie, had to Google what Darien Scheme was!

Interesting fact of the day: The Darien scheme was the reason we ended up in the Union! Our aristocracy bankrupted the country in a bid to colonise the New World and turned to England to bail us out - the Union was the result.

Aristocrats have a LOT to answer for

They could not have picked a worse place to try and colonise, a mosquito infected swamp in the middle of central America. There is still no road through the Darian Gap even today, it is the only break in the pan American Highway.

Maybe it was after this omnishambles that Scottish folk developed the stereotype for being mean with money? Totally understandable!

It didn't cause the Union - everyone knew union was on the cards - so Darien was a last chance to maintain financial independence. I don't think you can blame that on aristocracy.
Most of the Scottish Parliament were bribed, however, to make sure the bill was passed, and they were aristocratic.
An English pal of mine did some travelling / volunteering in Panama and visited some of the Scottish graves there. Actually quite a smart place to colonise as a trading base, if they were better prepared and willing to wait a few hundred years, as it is basically the site of the future Panama Canal. Unbelievably, the Scots offered knitted woollen bunnets as their main item of trade with the local Indians. Heart-breaking stuff.


Last edited by furra_linee on Wed 02 May 2018, 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : speellling)

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by TJ on Thu 03 May 2018, 6:59 am

I think who to take on the tour is a difficult balancing act. We don't have many games before the WC but also we have a good few players who really need a summer off.

Summer off - ickle jonny - we know who is is nd what he can do and surely a rest would do him good. Russell - needs some time to find a clear head, needs to get his move sorted, we need other 10s to get more experience.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Thu 03 May 2018, 11:49 am

Well one player who won't be going is our own flying Dutchman, Turnstill Tim Visser, so announced his international retirement today.

A natural born scorer who never quite lived up to expectations internationally, due to his defensive frailties. Scored some great tries though, will never forget the one from Hoggy overhead flip to beat France a couple of years ago.

Probably saw the writing on the wall has not featured much under Toonie, who prefers players with a higher work rate than Timbo.

He will be remembered with affection though.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu 03 May 2018, 1:56 pm

Visser could definitely be classed in our top 5 best wingers of the 6N era (noting there's not much competition) - one of the best finishers out there but held back by being a big jessie. He probably won't be missed given the players we now have but we can certainly look back on his Scotland career fondly.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by TJ on Fri 04 May 2018, 8:55 am

I really like Visser for NOT wrapping himself in the flag. Absolutly honest about wanting to play for a tier one team despite being dutch.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by bsando on Fri 04 May 2018, 1:58 pm

I had been hopeful Visser would go on to be a physical presence like North and develop his game further, which I think he did to a certain extent under Vern Cotter. He became an excellent finisher for Scotland but lacked that all round game that Maitland and Seymour have and Kinghorn is developing. Still, he scored some superb tries for Scotland and the one he took against Wales last year as well as France in 2016 was a peach! He was a key player in the start of Scotland's gradual ascendency in my opinion and will forever be respected as one of Scotland's finest wingers. Hope he does well at Quins and helps them improve next season!
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 06 May 2018, 10:19 am

Mark Palmer tweeting that Gray J, Greg L, Barclay, Finn Russell will all sit out the summer tour. Hoggy and a few others will play a part in it.

It definitely makes sensed to rest a few with a very long season coming up. If some players are playing a part of the tour, then you would imagine they will be joining up for the Agentina leg, where we will likely need a stronger team.

Definitely a chance for a few youngsters to make the debuts though. I would expect to see Horne G, Hastings, Cummings, Carmichael all get a chance to show what they can do.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 06 May 2018, 10:40 am

With Edinburgh now having no more games the players could go on a two week holiday and come back refreshed for the tour - I suspect all the Edinburgh internationals will travel.

I would ass Seymour to the list of those that should stay home - he needs a beeak as he's not been good this season.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 06 May 2018, 10:53 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:With Edinburgh now having no more games the players could go on a two week holiday and come back refreshed for the tour - I suspect all the Edinburgh internationals will travel.

I would ass Seymour to the list of those that should stay home - he needs a beeak as he's not been good this season.

He might be another who just comes out for the Argentina game.

The Argentina Super Rugby team are on a bit of a roll at the moment, having won 4 on the road beating the Chiefs and the Brumbies amongst them. Argentina, after a few fallow years, seem to be coming back to the boil in time for the World Cup, which is their usual cycle of things. It won't be an easy game down there and not one we can underestimate, hence the likely need for re-enforcements.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 06 May 2018, 11:08 am

Problem is if he brings in reinforcements for the last game they probably won't have played any rugby for at least 5 weeks!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 06 May 2018, 11:24 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Problem is if he brings in reinforcements for the last game they probably won't have played any rugby for at least 5 weeks!

Agreed, not easy to see how he will manage it, a shame the Argentina game is not the first game of the tour, not the last. No point in playing our strongest side against Canada and USA though, then sending a weaker one to South America.

I expect he will have a plan!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Yoda on Sun 06 May 2018, 3:14 pm

I saw that BBC documentary and it was excellent. The role the English played is also heavily discussed. Essentially it doesn't make us look good and it adds to our pantomime baddie rep. Can't remember all details but I think the royal navy blockaded the straight leading to the camp and let the colonists die a slow and diseased death. I think they also said that parliament knew it would fail and would make the Scots go bankrupt therfore making union so easy. In one role of the dice one of the best forward thinking countries lost alot of its independence.

Anyway you guys will be fine against USA and Canada but will be given a stern rest against the argies who are looking pretty tasty at super 15 level with the jaguars.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 08 May 2018, 8:29 am

Squad to be announced today - Matt Fagerson expected to be in at as he's not in the under 20s.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Tue 08 May 2018, 8:53 am

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/18/05/07/u20-scotland-squad-named-world-championship

U 20s squad announced yesterday.. Quite a young squad and a lot of them will be back again next year, so probably should have a realistic expectation of how they might get on.

The RFU are not helping as they are not going to release any of the English based players form their academies until 4 days before the tournament, despite them having no games. This is them certainly playing hardball but it does seem unfair on the players.

The South African prop who was with us in the 6n is now back playing in the SA squad as well.

Redpath talks about his son as well in an article in the off side line. Basically says that he and his family would love him to play for Scotland but at the end of the day it is his choice. Toonie has spoken with him, so the door remains open.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 08 May 2018, 8:58 am

It's Premiership Rugby apparently, not the RFU - disappointing they're taking that stance as it doesn't help their players' development at all. I'm also amazed there's not some World Rugby legislation to allow players to be released in plenty time for the tournament - this wouldn't happen for the senior world cup!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Tue 08 May 2018, 9:22 am

It won't be a proper Toonie squad without at least one completely left field selection. This tour in particular gives him the opportunity to take a few punts, as the opposition is not as strong and we know he is going to rest a few and let others get over injuries.

Matt Fagerson has already been touted, but he is hardly left field in any case, it was only ever going to be a question of when, not if he got capped. There will be a few others from within the Scottish based pros as well, who will likely get their first caps, George Horne surely, Cummings and maybe Chris Dean, who has had a pretty impressive season for Edinburgh.

I am thinking more, someone we have never heard of, or at least never really considered before.

There has got to be one!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by IanBru on Tue 08 May 2018, 10:15 am

I'm guessing we'll find out that Marcus Smith of Harlequins spent the first sixteen years of his life as Wee Mental Marky Frae Bridgeton.

Come on Toonie, the Telegraph will have a meltdown.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 08 May 2018, 10:16 am

James Lang from quins the only real surprise




Most of the big name players that were expected to be rested have been.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by IanBru on Tue 08 May 2018, 10:17 am

A fly-half from Quins... I was so close!

The Tombola doth confoundeth even me-eth.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 08 May 2018, 10:25 am

Head Coach Gregor Townsend today named six uncapped players in a 33-man Scotland squad for the 2018 Summer Tour to Canada, USA and Argentina next month.



The potential debutants are split between the touring forwards and backs, with Edinburgh Rugby duo Lewis Carmichael and Jamie Ritchie joined by Glasgow Warriors back-row Matt Fagerson in the pack.

Glasgow Warriors half-backs George Horne and Adam Hastings earn the opportunity to continue a stellar debut season on the tour, alongside former Scotland U18 and Harlequins midfielder, James Lang, who also gets the call.

Scotland Head Coach, Gregor Townsend, said: “There are twin goals for this tour - the first is to build on the work we’ve done so far this season and finish with improved performances. We also have the Rugby World Cup in our thoughts, as this will be our last tour before we leave for Japan next year.

“Touring and staying together for four weeks and experiencing different environments will be very informative - seeing how players get on with each other, how much they improve and how they rise to each challenge we face on tour.”

The squad, which has an average age of 25 and just two players aged 30 or above, also features notable absentees with Townsend giving a number of squad regulars an extended break, one year out from Rugby World Cup 2019 in Japan.

With John Barclay rested, Townsend has handed the tour captaincy to hooker Stuart McInally for the first time, a just reward for consistently-impressive performances for club and country.

33-MAN SCOTLAND SQUAD FOR 2018 SUMMER TOUR
FORWARDS (18)

Simon Berghan (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps
Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh Rugby) – 2 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 31 caps
Lewis Carmichael (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – 10 caps
David Denton (Worcester Warriors) – 39 caps
Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 22 caps
Richie Gray (Toulouse) – 65 caps
Luke Hamilton (Leicester Tigers) – 1 cap
Murray McCallum (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
Stuart McInally CAPTAIN (Edinburgh Rugby) – 17 caps
Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 36 caps
George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 2 caps
Ben Toolis (Edinburgh Rugby) – 9 caps

BACKS (15)

Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 9 caps
Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 28 caps
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 60 caps
George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 33 caps
Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps
Lee Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh Rugby) – 2 caps
James Lang (Harlequins) – uncapped
Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – 3 caps
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 21 caps

Unavailable through injury: Luke Crosbie (knee), John Hardie (back), Huw Jones (wrist surgery scheduled), Willem Nel (knee assessment / rehabilitation), Hamish Watson (shoulder).



SCOTLAND FIXTURES 2018 (all times are local)
2018 Summer Tour
Saturday 9 June: Canada v Scotland; Commonwealth Stadium, Edmonton (kick-off 7.10pm)
Saturday 16 June: USA v Scotland; BBVA Compass Stadium, Houston (kick-off 7pm)
Weekend of 22 June: Argentina v Scotland; Estadio Centenario (kick-off 4.40pm)

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Tue 08 May 2018, 10:25 am

James Lang is the bolter, there had to be one.

Otherwise a pretty fair selection, Carmichael ahead of Cummings, hard to argue against that on current form.

The young guns, Hastings, Horne, Fagerson and Ritchie all going along and expect them to get capped.

Mccallam, who can play both sides, goes along as the 5th prop.

Good to see Toonie is keeping faith with Hamilton and Harris, who are both far better players than they have had the chance to show in a Scotland shirt so far.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 08 May 2018, 10:38 am

By position

LH – Bhatti, Dell
H – McInally, Brown, Turner
TH – Berghan, Fagerson, McCallum
L – R Gray, Toolis, Gilchrist, Carmichael, Swinson
6/8 – Denton, Fagerson, Bradbury, Hamilton,
7 Ritchie (Hamilton)

9 – Price, Horne, SHC
10 – Horne, Hastings, Lang,
11/14 – Jones, McGuigan
12 – Dunbar, Taylor
13 – Grigg, Harris
15 – Hogg, Kinghorn, Jackson

Some thoughts having broken it down:

Only 2 looseheads, although McCallum can cover
Lots of locks – 2 will be sitting out each game
Only 2 natural wingers – Kinghorn will likely get gametime on the wing (I’d rather see him at 15)
Will Horne be a 10 or a 12?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 08 May 2018, 11:22 am

So here's my strongest 23 from that lot for the Argentina game - Toonie to mix it up for the first two:

1 Bhatti
2 McInally
3 Berghan
4 Gray
5 Gilchrist
6 Bradbruy
7 Hamilton
8 Denton

9 Price
10 Horne
11 Jones
12 Dunbar
13 Taylor
14 McGuigan
15 Hogg

Subs - Dell, Brown, Fagerson, Toolis, Ritchie, SHC, Hasting, Grigg

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Tue 08 May 2018, 11:23 am

With Lang and Hastings going along, you would like to see them get some game time, probably with Horne P on the bench to back them up if needed. Certainly for the two North American games. Whoever plays well may well get the gig for the Argentina game, which will be a lot more competitive.

We are definitely a bit light on wingers, both in the squad and generally. Presumably Jacko is being seen as a back up FB and Kinghorne much more likely to be playing on the wing.

A little bit surprising that Hoggy does not get the summer off as well, except I suppose, he has not played that much this season, so won't be over tired. There was also the suggestion that some players may only do part of the tour, he may come into that category.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by jimbopip on Tue 08 May 2018, 11:49 am

I love RDW's innocence... "Will Horne be a 10 or 12?" As if better minds than ours haven't been asking that since we adopted decimal currency.

No Sam Johnson Shocked Will he ever become SQ?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Tue 08 May 2018, 12:57 pm

jimbopip wrote:I love RDW's innocence... "Will Horne be a 10 or 12?" As if better minds than ours haven't been asking that since we adopted decimal currency.

No Sam Johnson  Shocked Will he ever become SQ?

I don't think he is qualified yet, but will be by next autumn. I am sure he would have gone if he was!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Majestic83 on Tue 08 May 2018, 1:09 pm

Surprised at the lack of wingers in the squad, thought Dougie Fife would have done enough to earn a place on the tour. Been in great form and is versatile enough to cover full back and 13(at a push).

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by demosthenes on Tue 08 May 2018, 3:46 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:By position

LH – Bhatti, Dell
H – McInally, Brown, Turner
TH – Berghan, Fagerson, McCallum
L – R Gray, Toolis, Gilchrist, Carmichael, Swinson
6/8 – Denton, Fagerson, Bradbury, Hamilton,  
7 Ritchie (Hamilton)

9 – Price, Horne, SHC
10 – Horne, Hastings, Lang,
11/14 – Jones, McGuigan
12 – Dunbar, Taylor
13 – Grigg, Harris
15 – Hogg, Kinghorn, Jackson

Some thoughts having broken it down:

Only 2 looseheads, although McCallum can cover
Lots of locks – 2 will be sitting out each game
Only 2 natural wingers – Kinghorn will likely get gametime on the wing (I’d rather see him at 15)
Will Horne be a 10 or a 12?

Might Toonie be trying Swinson in the back row? Otherwise I cant see what he is doing there. And that is not that I don't think he is good enough - in some scenarios - unless its a line-out caller / leader thing?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 08 May 2018, 4:44 pm

Swinson looked completely out of place in the 6N and has done nothing since then to change my opinion that he's not an international quality lock (including being completely ineffective against Edinburgh recently) - I hope he's there just to make up the numbers and carry tackle bags.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Eejit on Tue 08 May 2018, 6:38 pm

Pretty sure Sam Johnson qualifies in August/September I recall from a greater mind than I on these forums some weeks ago.

Do we reckon Hastings and Lang be giving a shot at 10, one against Canada one against USA. As said above, Furraliney is always there to take over should things go south.

Good squad all in all. Surely last chance saloon for Chris Harris.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by EWT Spoons on Tue 08 May 2018, 8:49 pm

Slightly disappointed for the like of Dean for example, who I think has probably done enough to at least justify being on the plane.

We're not massively stocked at wing and centre on this tour so would make some sense to have a few extras. Especially as Taylor is injury prone (as is Dunbar) and Harris has been poor every time he's pulled on the dark blue.

In my opinion the strongest 15 from those selected would be:

1. Dell
2. Rambo
3. Berghan
4. Toolis
5. Gilco
6. Bradbury
7. Ritchie
8. Denton
9. Horne
10. Hastings
11. McGuigan
12. Dunbar
13. Taylor
14. Kinghorn (would prefer him at 15)
15. Hogg

Rationale:
• Dell over Bhatti – I think Dell is the better player, or at least is more experienced
• Locks – I’ve not seen much of R.Gray this season and whilst I know he’s a good player, BBT and Gilco have a good partnership going
• Ritchie – Was a key player missing from the Munster game, I think his breakdown work was sadly missed. I also think he could be a future captain for club and country.
• Denton – Could go either way on Fagerson or Dents, just went with Deton as it’s quite a young back row I’ve picked and he’s the most experienced.
• G.Horne – Form player, might not be actually the best, but certainly high on form just now.
• Hastings – see Horne
• Kinghorn – He needs to play, his broken-field running is superb and whilst I don’t like playing players out of position, I think it can just about be acceptable on the wing for a FB

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by EST on Wed 09 May 2018, 10:26 am

Overall, i'm pretty pleased with that squad and generally happy about the tour as a whole - giving our lead players a whole summer off before the wc is a very good idea.

As others have noted, I'm surprised Swinson has made it on the plane, and Fife and Dean would have made my squad - Dean's turnaround this season has been miraculous, I really didn't think he had it in him.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 09 May 2018, 11:25 am

Townsend saying that James Lang is seen as a ball playing 12 mainly - interesting to see if we see him much there or if he's just been called up for the experience.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Wed 09 May 2018, 12:15 pm

Also interesting to hear him say that he has not given up on Graham and Redpath Jr playing for Scotland. He said he did not want to put any more pressure on the young lad (he is only 18 and just finishing school) by offering to take him on this tour, which was a very good thing in my opinion.

Brian Redpath has also gone into print saying he would love to see him playing for Scotland, so it clearly still is an option for him. I would imagine he will go to the JWC for England this time around and will make his call in the next year or so, once he is playing regular pro rugby, which everyone seems to think he is good enough to do. You can't imagine that England would try and cap him at this stage just to tie him in.

Gary Graham however may well get capped this summer. He is back playing well again and England are short on fit back row players. He would probably be less of a loss though as we have a lot of talented youngsters coming through in that position anyway.

Ben Vellacott was also saying in an interview with Gloucester TV that he was still keeping options open and that it had all happened a bit to quickly for him. He probably just needs a bit of time to consolidate as a pro player as well and is not ready for international rugby just yet anyway.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by IanBru on Wed 09 May 2018, 2:08 pm

Fixtures just announced for our RWC warm up games:

Saturday 17 August: France v Scotland; Venue TBC  (kick-off TBC)
Saturday 24 August: Georgia v Scotland; Dinamo Arena, Tbilisi, Georgia  (kick-off TBC)
Saturday 31 August: Scotland v France; BT Murrayfield  (kick-off TBC)
Weekend of Friday/Saturday 6/7 September: Scotland v Georgia; BT Murrayfield (kick-off TBC)

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/18/05/09/road-rugby-world-cup-2019-confirmed

Interestingly, that makes Scotland the first Tier-1 team ever to play in Georgia. I don't want to go too Mrs Lovejoy about this, but that's absolutely disgraceful. At least it's us that's setting things right, so I can be smug whenever the topic of Georgian 6N inclusion comes up on 606... Cool
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by jimbopip on Wed 09 May 2018, 2:43 pm

Bru...smug?

Bru ...smug in his righteousness?

The only surprise in his post is that he didn't mention we've played in Fiji more often than their Tier One SH neighbours.

So young Lange is a ball playing distributor at 12 as much as a 10. That'll put him third in line behind Sam Johnson and Furra Linee. Who are all waiting behind Eck Dunbar and Screech Taylor. Whoda thunk we'd have such an embarrassment of riches back when we were watching the G-Dog and Squashed Goblin horrorshow?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

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