Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

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Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Tramptastic on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 1:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Sunday 10th June 2018

Canada Vs Scotland

Sunday 17th June 2018

America Vs Scotland

Saturday 23rd June 2018

Argentina Vs Scotland



With an eye on the summer tour, whilst also keeping in mind the season isn't over for either of our pro teams - who would you "rest" for the summer tour and who would you bring along in their place?

I'd leave Russell, Price, WP Nel, Hogg, Dunbar, Barclay and Huw Jones purely because those guys have had extremely long seasons, are coming back from long term injuries and/or rarely (if ever) get a full pre-season with their clubs under their belts.

Dunbar is made of glass and could probably do with a summer of conditioning, same with WP Nel

Hogg, Jones and Russell have all had long seasons (lions tours/southern hemisphere seasons) and look a bit jaded.

Price is just off form and could do with some down time.

Barclay is getting on - would not like to injure our captain against America/Canada

With a world cup next year giving all of these guys a full pre-season could pay off in the long term.

Would also allow Townsend to have a closer look at Kinghorn, SHC/Horne (ideally take both and tell Fowles to f3ck off), Grigg, Chris Dean/Johnston/Bennett, Fagerson/Berghan/Mccalum, Bradbury.

Thoughts?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Wed 09 May 2018, 3:57 pm

jimbopip wrote:Bru...smug?

Bru ...smug in his righteousness?

The only surprise in his post is that he didn't mention we've played in Fiji more often than their Tier One SH neighbours.

So young Lange is a ball playing distributor at 12 as much as a 10. That'll put him third in line behind Sam Johnson and Furra Linee. Who are all waiting behind Eck Dunbar and Screech Taylor. Whoda thunk we'd have such an embarrassment of riches back when we were watching the G-Dog and Squashed Goblin horrorshow?

Very much think that Lang could be the future at 12.

Dunbar is held together with bandages (and skillful health professionals)
Taylor is much of the above plus I see him more as a 13
Sam Johnson is a prospect
Pete Horne is a good club player but woeful internationalist (at least in terms of consistency)

There's a change of the guard coming
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by EST on Wed 09 May 2018, 4:18 pm

I'd say Sam Johnson is every bit as good as Lang, looking forward to him qualifying.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 09 May 2018, 5:51 pm

Lang will be competing with Johnson and Dean for that role. Kelly and Hutchinson could come good as well though they may be more 13's.

Happy to see some players getting a rest. Hogg should only play the Argentina game. The ranking points don't matter until after the World Cup.

Expecting Kinghorn, Ritchie, Carmichael (shame for Cummings), G Horne and Hastings to get a good look in for this.

Hamilton, Harris, McGuigan, Pyrgos and Swinson (who I would have left behind) need good tours or else no World Cup. Those guys are on the fringes of the main squad and can easily be passed. This is the chance to impress.

With LI going down and Reid still there, is this the end of his test career (a la Welsh)? Bhatti, Dell, Marfo, Dickinson, Allan and Sutherland are all about. Only Dickinson is older and may retire soon.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by MacKnocked-on on Wed 09 May 2018, 6:21 pm

I would think Lang can put real pressure on Pete Horne especially this tour, he's a very talented player and crucially far more robust than Horne and probably also faster.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Anglobraveheart on Wed 09 May 2018, 6:27 pm

Hazel, Pyrgos isn't picked......

As for Gordy Reid, I hope he either finds another AP or even a French club? Imagine his interview - "ah oui, ah oui..... hors du bus!"

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Wed 09 May 2018, 7:46 pm

I'm quite surprised that Lang who hasn't yet come close to establishing himself in what has been a poor Quins side this season is getting talked up so much. He really needs to prove himself at club level before we start putting him into the same bracket as Pete Horne who is certainly a proven club player if still a flaky international at times.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 09 May 2018, 9:43 pm

Anglobraveheart wrote:Hazel, Pyrgos isn't picked......

As for Gordy Reid, I hope he either finds another AP or even a French club? Imagine his interview - "ah oui, ah oui..... hors du bus!"

Doh

Right call though. SHC has been the better player the last 3 months.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Anglobraveheart on Thu 10 May 2018, 7:32 am

I would have taken Pyrgos ahead of Price. Price has really gone off the boil, and I think he needs a bit of a sabbatical. It has just crossed my mind that maybe Finn moving on has affected Price. Losing his half back partner and good mate to play with, combined with maybe thinking that the grass could be greener elsewhere. I think a bit of time for reflection and some psychology would do him better than the tour.
Pyrgos provides a fine balance to G Horne's up tempo style of play, and it would have been good to have him there in the push button for emergency role.
SHC is in the middle somewhere, but deserves his place after some very shrewd scrum half performances recently. I would have taken SHC, Horne and Pyrgos as the 3 scrum halves.
There are still possibly 2 Glasgow games to come, so there's no guarantee that either Horne or Price will make it through unscathed. Figures crossed they all do and have great tours.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu 10 May 2018, 8:29 am

It is amazing the number of players that have a rapid rise then go through a barren period. Most make it back to the top again, although some take longer than others.

I wonder whether this is just the nature of elite level professional sport or if this is something the SRU need to have a look at and work out why it keeps happening? There's a lot of sports psychology involved these days so you'd hope they'd be working with the young superstars to keep them on the right path.

It is also interesting that there is usually one big event that sets the malaise off - in Price's case it was certainly the Wales game then being dropped. SHC was the world cup build up where he was probably the form 9 going into the summer training camps but spent the whole time holding tackle bags and that ruined his form (which lasted another 2 seasons to be fair!). Hogg was probably the Biggar red card, although in truth he'd been a bit of a diva for a while before that.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Anglobraveheart on Thu 10 May 2018, 8:58 am

I know that they are 'grown ups' and pro sportsmen, but I also think (if it's not in place already) that there should be mentoring from senior players. As they do for the u20's, where the player gets a budfy to help him through, I think it should continue through their mid 20's. We've all been there as Joe Public with our own lives and daft antics in our mid-twenties, and really, these guys need support and mentoring for when they get carried away with success, and in turn when that wavers a little.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 10 May 2018, 9:51 am

Cameron Redpath selected in England Senior Squad. No Graham or Vellacott.

How many games has he played for Sale? Feels like the RFU/E Jones are trolling the SRU after Scotland started the 3 game rot and offered to fund a Prem team.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu 10 May 2018, 9:54 am

That's a ridiculous decision - he's just turned 18 FFS! At least Marcus Smith is established now at Harlequins this season. Really don't where this is going - I'd be amazed if he plays at all and it is ridiculous that an 18 year old with next to no pro experience is being called up by England. Is their strength in depth really that bad??

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by EST on Thu 10 May 2018, 10:01 am

To be fair to the lad, he has never lived in Scotland. Yes he has Scottish parents, but he has played all his rugby south of the border.

I think the decision has been hastened by some of the noises coming out of the SRU (investing in an English pro team/SQ programme), but i'm not sure if we can grumble about this one too much.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu 10 May 2018, 10:03 am

I'm not saying he's wrong to have picked England I'm saying it is ridiculous Jones picked an 18 year old straight out of school with almost no pro experience, the year before a world cup.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by nickj on Thu 10 May 2018, 10:14 am

Eddie Jones is a cynical little bar steward IMHO.

Vellacott is named in the wider training squad. Is Graham snr not injured?

England training squad:

Backs: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Joe Cokanasiga (London Irish)*, Ben Loader (London Irish)*, Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Jason Woodward (Gloucester Rugby)*, George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors)*, Cameron Redpath (Sale Sharks)*, Marcus Smith (Harlequins)*, Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Ben Vellacott (Gloucester Rugby)*, Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Forwards: Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)*, Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Tom Ellis (Bath Rugby)*, Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Josh McNally (London Irish)*, Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby)*, Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Jono Ross (Sale Sharks)*, Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby)*, Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), George McGuigan (Leicester Tigers)*, Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)*, Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors)*, Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Jack Singleton (Worcester Warriors) *

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 10 May 2018, 11:27 am

Well we have Hastings at least - he could have easily opted for England if he wanted to.

It seems a shame Redpath chose England but fairplay to the lad if that's what he wants to do. I just hope England treat him well and don't leave him out in the cold after capping him to tie him in though agree it seems to be a cynical ploy from Jones, and I do worry that he will get shafted.

I think this is all the more reason to hope the super 6 works out. We need to be able to bring this talent through in Scotland and help players feel part of the Scottish set-up from the get go, especially decent 10s as they're such a rarity, and with Finn's recent form we've shown we need a robust back-up or two.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 10 May 2018, 11:54 am

nickj wrote:Eddie Jones is a cynical little bar steward IMHO.

Vellacott is named in the wider training squad. Is Graham snr not injured?

England training squad:

Backs: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Joe Cokanasiga (London Irish)*, Ben Loader (London Irish)*, Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Jason Woodward (Gloucester Rugby)*, George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors)*, Cameron Redpath (Sale Sharks)*, Marcus Smith (Harlequins)*, Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Ben Vellacott (Gloucester Rugby)*, Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Forwards: Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)*, Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Tom Ellis (Bath Rugby)*, Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Josh McNally (London Irish)*, Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby)*, Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Jono Ross (Sale Sharks)*, Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby)*, Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), George McGuigan (Leicester Tigers)*, Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)*, Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors)*, Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Jack Singleton (Worcester Warriors) *

Did not see the wider training squad. Don't recognise the 2 Worcester forwards. Jono Ross came over a la Brad Shields for the English payroll. Are these the "Saxons" so to speak?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 10 May 2018, 2:13 pm

Hazel,

This group is the squad preparing for the game against the Barbarians, day after the AP final. As such it excludes players from the four semi final teams - hence perhaps why Gary Graham not included.

Schonert and Singleton were both involved this time last year and selected to go to Argentina - though Schonert was ruled out I think by injury. Singleton is a bullocking player in the loose and strong in scrum but struggles to hit the proverbial barn door.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Thu 10 May 2018, 4:47 pm

I have no issue with Cameron Redpath wanting to play for England. He was born in France and moved to England at a very young age where he has played all his rugby.

I just hope that it doesn't backfire on the laddie if he get tied into England and then never capped again!

Eddie Jones really does come over like a douche who would do something like that just to give two fingers to the SRU
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 10 May 2018, 8:27 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Hazel,

This group is the squad preparing for the game against the Barbarians, day after the AP final. As such it excludes players from the four semi final teams - hence perhaps why Gary Graham not included.

Schonert and Singleton were both involved this time last year and selected to go to Argentina - though Schonert was ruled out I think by injury. Singleton is a bullocking player in the loose and strong in scrum but struggles to hit the proverbial barn door.

Cheers LT, explains a bit. Not a cap game right?

Graham is not in the senior squad listed on planetrugby...

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by cakeordeath on Fri 11 May 2018, 8:38 am

MacKnocked-on wrote:I would think Lang can put real pressure on Pete Horne especially this tour, he's a very talented player and crucially far more robust than Horne and probably also faster.    

Over on another forum (actually reddit) there are a lot of quins fans saying he isn't even 3rd choice at quins and has been pants when he has played. Toonie must see something in him though.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 11 May 2018, 8:42 am

I watch the prem rugby highlights and he did have a really good game several months ago - can't remember against who - but has barely featured since. He has the makings of a good player but he just doesn't have regular gametime. In hindsight he may have been a better signing for Edinburgh instead of Socino? Unless Cockers wanted an experienced, proven pro.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Fri 11 May 2018, 8:52 am

I have seen Lang play on the tv a few times and he has looked a decent player. Quins have stuck with Roberts as their 12 pretty much all season, despite him not playing very well, so Lang has had few opportunities to start. That will hopefully change next season, as Roberts moves on and a new coach comes in.

I am sure he will get a chance on this tour and we will hopefully have a better idea if he can cut it at international level afterwards. Toonie certainly sounds very enthusiastic about him.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 11 May 2018, 9:34 am

Not at all related to the Scotland tour, as they were not likely to be bothering selection (and I think it might have been mentioned somewhere already), but Lawson, Strokosch & Ally Hogg have all retired.

Some decent servants to Scotland there, and hope they go onto success in whatever they do now.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Fri 11 May 2018, 10:33 am

never could get my head around what happened with Ally Hogg. By far a more talented No 8 than Denton/Strauss/Wilson when they kept on being picked for some unknown reason.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 11 May 2018, 11:06 am

tigertattie wrote:never could get my head around what happened with Ally Hogg. By far a more talented No 8 than Denton/Strauss/Wilson when they kept on being picked for some unknown reason.

They were in Scotland at the time and Hogg was away?

Matt Scott had a great season at Gloucester in 2016-2017 and I don't remember him starting over Dunbar or Taylor. Strauss went to Sale last year and has not been selected since (admittedly spent time injured). Visser and Welsh are pretty much ignored to the point of embarrassment. Is there a process of, if there is an equivalent player at home (or considered to be), that they get picked ahead if the player left Scotland? R Gray, Laidlaw and Reid were all a step above other options hence their continued involvement.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Fri 11 May 2018, 11:12 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:
tigertattie wrote:never could get my head around what happened with Ally Hogg. By far a more talented No 8 than Denton/Strauss/Wilson when they kept on being picked for some unknown reason.

They were in Scotland at the time and Hogg was away?

Matt Scott had a great season at Gloucester in 2016-2017 and I don't remember him starting over Dunbar or Taylor. Strauss went to Sale last year and has not been selected since (admittedly spent time injured). Visser and Welsh are pretty much ignored to the point of embarrassment.  Is there a process of, if there is an equivalent player at home (or considered to be), that they get picked ahead if the player left Scotland? R Gray, Laidlaw and Reid were all a step above other options hence their continued involvement.  

partly yes but Taylor is an exile too but he got picked

Denton is an exile.............

Barclay........

McGuigan............
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 11 May 2018, 11:28 am

tigertattie wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:
tigertattie wrote:never could get my head around what happened with Ally Hogg. By far a more talented No 8 than Denton/Strauss/Wilson when they kept on being picked for some unknown reason.

They were in Scotland at the time and Hogg was away?

Matt Scott had a great season at Gloucester in 2016-2017 and I don't remember him starting over Dunbar or Taylor. Strauss went to Sale last year and has not been selected since (admittedly spent time injured). Visser and Welsh are pretty much ignored to the point of embarrassment.  Is there a process of, if there is an equivalent player at home (or considered to be), that they get picked ahead if the player left Scotland? R Gray, Laidlaw and Reid were all a step above other options hence their continued involvement.  

partly yes but Taylor is an exile too but he got picked

Denton is an exile.............

Barclay........

McGuigan............

Ally Hogg if I remember correctly had an injury for a while then struggled to break back in to the squad, we were just approaching the Denton "killer 'b's" *shudder* era at that point and Simon Taylor was still about, and I think Stroks might have played at 8 a few times around then.

Agree though he was very unlucky as undoubtedly was a talented backrower, especially as the original Mr Glass (Simon Taylor) was off the field so much, you'd have thought he deserved more of a chance.

It's hard to look good in a mediocre/crap side (unless you're Parrisse circa 2010).
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Fri 11 May 2018, 11:54 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:
tigertattie wrote:never could get my head around what happened with Ally Hogg. By far a more talented No 8 than Denton/Strauss/Wilson when they kept on being picked for some unknown reason.

They were in Scotland at the time and Hogg was away?

Matt Scott had a great season at Gloucester in 2016-2017 and I don't remember him starting over Dunbar or Taylor. Strauss went to Sale last year and has not been selected since (admittedly spent time injured). Visser and Welsh are pretty much ignored to the point of embarrassment.  Is there a process of, if there is an equivalent player at home (or considered to be), that they get picked ahead if the player left Scotland? R Gray, Laidlaw and Reid were all a step above other options hence their continued involvement.  

partly yes but Taylor is an exile too but he got picked

Denton is an exile.............

Barclay........

McGuigan............

Ally Hogg if I remember correctly had an injury for a while then struggled to break back in to the squad, we were just approaching the Denton "killer 'b's" *shudder* era at that point and Simon Taylor was still about, and I think Stroks might have played at 8 a few times around then.

Agree though he was very unlucky as undoubtedly was a talented backrower, especially as the original Mr Glass (Simon Taylor) was off the field so much, you'd have thought he deserved more of a chance.

It's hard to look good in a mediocre/crap side (unless you're Parrisse circa 2010).

Simon Taylor started in 2000 and was blighted by injury.

Hogg was first capped in 2004

Brown started in 2005
Beattie started in 2006
Barclay started in 2007

Beattie was another who was hit with injuries and then his form dropped, especially after he left Glasgow in 2012.

It was at this point that Ally should have picked up another 20/25 caps but for whatever reason, he was overlooked. Scotland were crying out for a hard grafting, ball playing No 8 (and still are really)

Hogg got his last cap in 2009 and players like Ritchie McCaw and coaches like Dean Richards have praised Hogg's ability. How on earth he wasn't picked since 2009 until his now retirement is baffling. Not even on the bench???

He was ripping up trees consistently for Newcastle but Andy Robinson (who made Hogg Captain at Edinburgh when he was there) didn't pick him. Then every other coach over-looked him. It's almost like he fell out of favor with the big wigs at the SRU and he was shunned.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 11 May 2018, 12:01 pm

tigertattie wrote:Beattie was another who was hit with injuries and then his form dropped, especially after he left Glasgow in 2012.

Is Beattie still playing in France?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Fri 11 May 2018, 12:12 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Beattie was another who was hit with injuries and then his form dropped, especially after he left Glasgow in 2012.

Is Beattie still playing in France?

Bayonne I believe!
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Fri 11 May 2018, 12:40 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Not at all related to the Scotland tour, as they were not likely to be bothering selection (and I think it might have been mentioned somewhere already), but Lawson, Strokosch & Ally Hogg have all retired.

Some decent servants to Scotland there, and hope they go onto success in whatever they do now.

Strokosch is becoming a S&C coach with Edinburgh I believe. Lawson is becoming Director of Rugby at St Andrews University and Hogg said in his leaving interview with the Falcons that he is staying in the NE and looking to move into financial services.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 11 May 2018, 12:48 pm

Is DoR of a Uni rugby team really a proper job?? Surely not fulltime!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Fri 11 May 2018, 1:23 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Is DoR of a Uni rugby team really a proper job?? Surely not fulltime!

I guess so, you would imagine he is looking for a proper job!

Most private schools have DoR posts now, so why not universities. A lot of ex pros are going into jobs like that. Even players from before the pro era.

I remember seeing an interview with Bill Cuthbertson, a rough old second row from the 1980s. He was a car mechanic by trade and is now a school master at a private school down south.

It's all very different from my uni days, when we just turned up and played, no coach at all!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 11 May 2018, 1:26 pm

BigGee wrote:
Strokosch is becoming a S&C coach with Edinburgh I believe.

Where did you see/hear this BigGee?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Fri 11 May 2018, 1:35 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Strokosch is becoming a S&C coach with Edinburgh I believe.

Where did you see/hear this BigGee?

An interview with him about retiring in the daily record.

I would just like to make it quite clear that I don't normally read the DR, but followed a twitter link. A few of the rugby hacks were tweating about him retiring.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 11 May 2018, 1:36 pm

BigGee wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Strokosch is becoming a S&C coach with Edinburgh I believe.

Where did you see/hear this BigGee?

An interview with him about retiring in the daily record.

I would just like to make it quite clear that I don't normally read the DR, but followed a twitter link. A few of the rugby hacks were tweating about him retiring.

Oldest excuse in the book Very Happy

Cheers though

Roddy Grant is beginning to look considerably out of place with the rest of the coaching team, even more so if Stokosch joins

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 11 May 2018, 1:54 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:
tigertattie wrote:never could get my head around what happened with Ally Hogg. By far a more talented No 8 than Denton/Strauss/Wilson when they kept on being picked for some unknown reason.

They were in Scotland at the time and Hogg was away?

Matt Scott had a great season at Gloucester in 2016-2017 and I don't remember him starting over Dunbar or Taylor. Strauss went to Sale last year and has not been selected since (admittedly spent time injured). Visser and Welsh are pretty much ignored to the point of embarrassment.  Is there a process of, if there is an equivalent player at home (or considered to be), that they get picked ahead if the player left Scotland? R Gray, Laidlaw and Reid were all a step above other options hence their continued involvement.  

partly yes but Taylor is an exile too but he got picked

Denton is an exile.............

Barclay........

McGuigan............

Denton and Barclay were in the wilderness for a while. Maitland had a year where he was hardly around either.

McGuigan left whilst not playing for Glasgow and not playing for Scotland. He spent a couple of years without getting picked. Was he offered a deal to stay even?

Duncan Taylor never played in Scotland so maybe a case of if you leave the confines you have to spend a year in the wild eating rabbits with Hamilton and Cotter?


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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Fri 11 May 2018, 2:15 pm

Lots of conspiracy theories being aired here.

I expect the real reason all these players did not get picked was mainly because the coach thought that there was a better player in their positions!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by EST on Fri 11 May 2018, 2:59 pm

I've always thought it was really strange that Hogg wasn't considered as an option since 2009. I think it was on here that I was strongly advocating for his inclusion around the time of the last WC (I think). He's a natural 8 with great handling skills, in the time he's been out we have capped significantly worse players.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by bsando on Mon 14 May 2018, 7:49 am

IanBru wrote:Fixtures just announced for our RWC warm up games:

Saturday 17 August: France v Scotland; Venue TBC  (kick-off TBC)
Saturday 24 August: Georgia v Scotland; Dinamo Arena, Tbilisi, Georgia  (kick-off TBC)
Saturday 31 August: Scotland v France; BT Murrayfield  (kick-off TBC)
Weekend of Friday/Saturday 6/7 September: Scotland v Georgia; BT Murrayfield (kick-off TBC)

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/18/05/09/road-rugby-world-cup-2019-confirmed

Interestingly, that makes Scotland the first Tier-1 team ever to play in Georgia. I don't want to go too Mrs Lovejoy about this, but that's absolutely disgraceful. At least it's us that's setting things right, so I can be smug whenever the topic of Georgian 6N inclusion comes up on 606... Cool

I agree, and we also seem to play the Pacific Islanders more than any other Tier One Nation as well which I think is brilliant.

These will be great warm up games! Looking forward to these and may even try and go to one of them.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 14 May 2018, 8:29 am

A couple of updates from more interviews with Toonie:

- Jackson is in the squad as a 10 apparently and "will get gametime there"

- Only 28 players will travel to Argentina (probably to save some money!)

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Mon 14 May 2018, 9:47 am

EST wrote:I've always thought it was really strange that Hogg wasn't considered as an option since 2009.  I think it was on here that I was strongly advocating for his inclusion around the time of the last WC (I think).  He's a natural 8 with great handling skills, in the time he's been out we have capped significantly worse players.  

I was tooting his trumpet for the last WC too. Even if not as a starter he would have made a belter of a bench option. He's a great No8 but due to his pace he also made for a good 7, playing many times there for Edinburgh. He's also played a fair bit at 6.

I believe at the time I was advocating a back row of

6. Strokes/Wilson (Wilson was playing at 6 for Glasgow all the time)
7. Hardie
8. Hogg/Strauss

What Mr Cotter took tot he W/C was:

David Denton, John Hardie, Josh Strauss, Alasdair Strokosch and Ryan Wilson

At the time, Hardie was probably the only player playing to form and Strauss just wasn't hitting his straps for Scotland. Unbelievable that Hogg wasn't looked at and should deffo have been playing in many games (even from the bench) between his exile in 2009 and the WC in 2015.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Mon 14 May 2018, 10:19 am

tigertattie wrote:
EST wrote:I've always thought it was really strange that Hogg wasn't considered as an option since 2009.  I think it was on here that I was strongly advocating for his inclusion around the time of the last WC (I think).  He's a natural 8 with great handling skills, in the time he's been out we have capped significantly worse players.  

I was tooting his trumpet for the last WC too. Even if not as a starter he would have made a belter of a bench option. He's a great No8 but due to his pace he also made for a good 7, playing many times there for Edinburgh. He's also played a fair bit at 6.

I believe at the time I was advocating a back row of

6. Strokes/Wilson (Wilson was playing at 6 for Glasgow all the time)
7. Hardie
8. Hogg/Strauss

What Mr Cotter took tot he W/C was:

David Denton, John Hardie, Josh Strauss, Alasdair Strokosch and Ryan Wilson

At the time, Hardie was probably the only player playing to form and Strauss just wasn't hitting his straps for Scotland. Unbelievable that Hogg wasn't looked at and should deffo have been playing in many games (even from the bench) between his exile in 2009 and the WC in 2015.

To be fair Dents had a pretty good WC, probably his high water point in his Scotland career so far. He certainly deserved his place in the squad and the team. Not many would have said that Josh Strauss did not either based on his club form over the previous three years. The odd pick for that WC was Strokosch, who was playing D2 in France and did not really feature that much. Hogg may well have been picked over him, but he was never in the frame.

Newcastle were languishing at that point and it was always hard for Hogg to show how good a player he is in a poor team. It has only been more apparent this season as Newcastle have vastly improved.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 14 May 2018, 10:25 am

Can add Swinson to the odd pick category given he didn't do any of the pre-season camp and just came back from his honeymoon! We all know what Jim Hamilton thought of that.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 14 May 2018, 10:36 am

Glad to hear Jackson's finally being considered as a 10 again - we need to build more options there and whilst he was Mr Inconsistent - I feel playing at fullback has improved a lot of aspects of his game and he could usurp P Horne to the back-up spot.

Hastings needs more gametime to make second choice, which he'll hopefully have come next season when Dancer dives into the moneypot, though I am keen to see how he does this summer.

Lang is too much of an unknown quantity for me at the moment. Maybe he'll be a bolter but considering how little he's played for Quins I doubt it, especially after the whole Harris debacle.

Talking of Harris, I really hope he can redeem himself - I'm sure he is a better player than he appears to be. I remember when Mark Bennett started and he was Mr Butterfingers for the first few games. Let's hope it's just the butterflies. Would be nice to see Taylor get some time too, so long as he gets given a bike helmet when doing contact training.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 14 May 2018, 11:19 am

Not convinced about Jackson at 10 - he wasn't really international class when he was playing there regularly, so I'm not sure we can really expect him to have magically become so when he's not playing there regularly!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Mon 14 May 2018, 11:45 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Not convinced about Jackson at 10 - he wasn't really international class when he was playing there regularly, so I'm not sure we can really expect him to have magically become so when he's not playing there regularly!

I am not entirely convinced about Jacko as an international FH either, he has had more than his fair share of opportunities without ever really convincing. I can see how he adds utility value to the squad though. I could easily see him benching for the first two games and covering FH/FB but would be surprised if he was anywhere near the WC squad come next year, unless we get a run of injuries.

I suppose that is the eventuality that Toonie is trying to test, if we were to loss Finn and/or Hastings, who would be left? We are still pretty exposed in that position.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 14 May 2018, 1:35 pm

BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Not convinced about Jackson at 10 - he wasn't really international class when he was playing there regularly, so I'm not sure we can really expect him to have magically become so when he's not playing there regularly!

I am not entirely convinced about Jacko as an international FH either, he has had more than his fair share of opportunities without ever really convincing. I can see how he adds utility value to the squad though. I could easily see him benching for the first two games and covering FH/FB but would be surprised if he was anywhere near the WC squad come next year, unless we get a run of injuries.

I suppose that is the eventuality that Toonie is trying to test, if we were to loss Finn and/or Hastings, who would be left? We are still pretty exposed in that position.

Yep I agree that's probably Toonie's line of thinking. All the more shame that we'll likely not have Redpath Jr come the WC if he has a storming first pro season (unlikely though that may be).

What happened to Hutchinson? Is he still playing at Saints? Hasn't he played FH before?

I'll be interested to see how Duncy gets on at another club, though I don't think Worcester will encourage him to adopt an attacking style, and certainly not to the same level as our other options, especially with Solly in charge.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Mon 14 May 2018, 3:44 pm

Hutchinson dropped of the radar at Saints this season and ended up playing for one of the championship sides. I am not sure if that was a reflection of how he was doing or just what a shambles Saints have been this season.

There was a rumour of him signing for Glasgow, but I can't see that we really need any more centres. I don't think he has played at FH since the juniors and I doubt very much whether he will be making the journey back there.

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