Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

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Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Tramptastic on Mon 30 Apr 2018, 7:06 am

First topic message reminder :

Sunday 10th June 2018

Canada Vs Scotland

Sunday 17th June 2018

America Vs Scotland

Saturday 23rd June 2018

Argentina Vs Scotland



With an eye on the summer tour, whilst also keeping in mind the season isn't over for either of our pro teams - who would you "rest" for the summer tour and who would you bring along in their place?

I'd leave Russell, Price, WP Nel, Hogg, Dunbar, Barclay and Huw Jones purely because those guys have had extremely long seasons, are coming back from long term injuries and/or rarely (if ever) get a full pre-season with their clubs under their belts.

Dunbar is made of glass and could probably do with a summer of conditioning, same with WP Nel

Hogg, Jones and Russell have all had long seasons (lions tours/southern hemisphere seasons) and look a bit jaded.

Price is just off form and could do with some down time.

Barclay is getting on - would not like to injure our captain against America/Canada

With a world cup next year giving all of these guys a full pre-season could pay off in the long term.

Would also allow Townsend to have a closer look at Kinghorn, SHC/Horne (ideally take both and tell Fowles to f3ck off), Grigg, Chris Dean/Johnston/Bennett, Fagerson/Berghan/Mccalum, Bradbury.

Thoughts?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Fri 15 Jun 2018, 9:19 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Not international level but at my local team in Edinburgh there was a father-son combo playing together. Father a prop, son a second row so they were fighting the same battles on the pitch as well which was great!

Aye we had similar at our club where dad was a prop and lingered on so he could play a game with this son who played fullback at the time!

Absolute nonsense running waddling around a rugby pitch at his age but fair play to him
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by demosthenes on Fri 15 Jun 2018, 10:18 am

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Not international level but at my local team in Edinburgh there was a father-son combo playing together. Father a prop, son a second row so they were fighting the same battles on the pitch as well which was great!

Aye we had similar at our club where dad was a prop and lingered on so he could play a game with this son who played fullback at the time!

Absolute nonsense running waddling around a rugby pitch at his age but fair play to him

At my local club a chap I know kept on playing so that he could play just one game in the same side as his eldest son. So the boy turns 18 in the close season - and goes straight into the firsts the next year, which the old fella had no chance of doing. Cue retirement.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by George Carlin on Fri 15 Jun 2018, 2:49 pm

Leander wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Wonder what Matt did to warrant such a boring name by comparison to his brothers.

No really cares about middle children, do they?
Laugh  I can confirm that.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 3:00 am

So that's some crappy news to wake up to - going to watch the game but not looking forward to it!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 3:16 am

Just watched the highlights. Try after 1 minute from Kinghorn in the corner. 21-6 at 36 minutes and 24-13 at half. Kinghorn was kicking.

We missed a touchline conversion in injury time. Bennett had the ball knocked out of his hands 10 minutes earlier as he went to put down a try.

The USA's last try was M Fagerson* dropping an up-and-under in the 22. USA ultimately took their opportunities better.

Hamilton got penalised a couple of times as well in the highlights which is not a good sign usually. Could not see a link for the whole game. Not sure I want to

*Blamed wrong player in previous post


Last edited by Hazel Sapling on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 3:17 am

Game was on BBC so will be on iPlayer. Watching it now.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Eejit on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 3:28 am

I watched it live. USA looked big, well coached and abrasive. No whipping boys any longer. Still, good learning experience for our younger guys, but clearly there is a serious lack of dog in some of our greener players. We’d have won that with points to spare had Barclay been playing.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 3:41 am

I can see the Canada game, not the USA one. Apparently it is being broadcast at 10am BBC2 Scotland.

Who impressed Eejit? Who has played themselves out of the squad?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Eejit on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 3:49 am

Horne Jr made a right nuisance of himself and they never quite found out how to deal with him. Should have had a try had Manoa not clotheslined him.

Tough game for Hastings. Looks very handy going forward and some his short balls are sublime, but his game management needs work. He ballooned the ball to their backs on more than one occasion including one mad crossfield kick that landed down Blaine Skully’s throat and would have been a try if not for a bit of luck.

Kinghorn also worth a mention. A lot of endeavour and certainly more to come.

But to be honest the plaudits should go to them. Their ball carriers were excellent and Macginty is a real world class 10. They’ll take a few more tier 1 scalps if they keep playing like that and cut out the errors.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by lostinwales on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 4:03 am

Thanks Scotland

At least you have taken some of the heat off England's failures for a bit

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 4:14 am

Not great for Scotland but credit to the Yanks. We had plenty of chances to win the game in the last 15 mins but even if we had, we would not have deserved it. Considering we made such a good start, it is hard to fathom out why we had such a poor 20 mins at the start of the second half.

Of the newbies, Horne played well and did not look out of place. Hastings was steady but did not boss the game the way that McGinty did for the US.

Matt Fagerson on the other hand looked under powered for a No. 8 at this level and never really made much ground going forward, he then cost us a try with a missed catch. He has got plenty time on his side, but he did not really look ready for international rugby on this showing.

Other than Kinghorn. who did have a very good game, not really to many standouts on the Scotland side. McGuigan did not have a great game, not Hamilton.

It will be interesting to see who gets whittled down before the remnants of the squad head off to Argentina.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 5:10 am

Just watched the game. I was expecting to see a poor Scotland performance but the reality is USA played really well - better than us in most areas - and by the time we regained control with 20 minutes left the damage was already done. In the 'championship moments' before and after halftime we conceded 17 points!

Here's hoping Townsend learns his lessons from this as the reality is we cannot put out a team like that so lacking in physicality and expect to be able to compete. The sub forwards made a huge difference and I suspect if they had started the game we probably would have won. I think this has confirmed our thoughts that some players have a lot of developing to do before they can be relied upon at this level.

Some key points:

- Horne jnr had a good game and if he's given a better platform he could cause damage
- Fagerson jnr is not ready for international rugby yet. He is underpowered and was generally smashed in contact, plus made a high profile error that lost us a try
- Charmichael similarly struggled to make any impact. He's probably better served as an impact sub for when the game opens up.
- Turner has become an international class hooker - we've got good depth there
- Hastings had some nice touches but the difference in game management between him and McGinty was vast. He's got a lot of developing to do before he can be considered genuine backup to Russell.
- Kinghorn is an X-factor player who should be a regular fixture in the team, even if just on the wing
- Mcguigan is a try scorer but is severely lacking in other aspects (Visser MK2)
- For the second game in a row our backs haven't made an impact on the game, other than moments from individuals. Bit of a worry given our game is so reliant on great attacking play.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Duty281 on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 5:26 am

Pretty damn embarrassing for Scotland.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 5:32 am

Interesting to see that he brought Fraser Brown on as a back rower and left Turner on for the whole of the game.

That suggests that Turner was playing pretty well, which he was and that the back row were not. Pretty much the first turnover we won was by Brown after he came on. The Swinson experiment at 6 did not go great either. He had a clear run to the line if he had any kind of pace to finish it off.

Without Barclay and Watson, our back row options don't seem to be overflowing atm. There are places up for grabs there. I expect Dents, Bradbury and A. N. Other to start against the Argies. Perhaps he will move Fagerson round to 7, he is not going to cut it as an 8 atm.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 5:34 am

Looking to next next I hope he puts out the strongest team possible to get the win. An inexperienced Wales have beaten them with relative ease so they are there for the taking. It is difficult to compare performances from last week and this given the gulf in quality in the opposition, but the reality is some players failed to take their opportunity yesterday.

My team for Argentina:

1 Dell
2 Mcinally
3 Berghan
4 Toolis
5 Gilchrist
6 Bradbury
7 Ritchie
8 Denton

9 Horne
10 Jackson
11 Fife
12 Horne
13 Bennett
14 Kinhghorn
15 Hogg

Subs - Bhattie, Turner, McCallum, Charmichael, Hamilton, SHC, Hastings, Harris

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 5:35 am

BigGee wrote:Interesting to see that he brought Fraser Brown on as a back rower and left Turner on for the whole of the game.

That suggests that Turner was playing pretty well, which he was and that the back row were not. Pretty much the first turnover we won was by Brown after he came on. The Swinson experiment at 6 did not go great either. He had a clear run to the line if he had any kind of pace to finish it off.

Without Barclay and Watson, our back row options don't seem to be overflowing atm. There are places up for grabs there. I expect Dents, Bradbury and A. N. Other to start against the Argies. Perhaps he will move Fagerson round to 7, he is not going to cut it as an 8 atm.

Ritchie deserves another start at 7 after his Canada performance

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 5:44 am

That team not a million miles away I'd imagine. I had forgotten about Ritchie, he will surely start at 7.

If Taylor is fit, surely he comes in at 12, I think we will know that depending on whether he goes home tomorrow with those not heading down South.

I can't help feeling that Hastings might get another chance at 10 over Jacko, who may bench, remember Toonie has already said that Hoggy is not going to Argentina. Lang may have done enough last week to get another shot as well. Bennett surely deserves a start as well, has done well in both his sub appearances.

So for me:

Dell
McInally
Berghan
Toolis
Gilchrist
Bradbury
Ritchie
Denton
Horne G
Hastings
Fife
Taylor/Laing
Bennett
McGuigan (no other wingers)
Kinghorn

Bhatti
Brown
Fagerson
Carmichael
Hamilton/Fagerson
SHC
Horne P
Jacko

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 5:49 am

Forgot about Taylor! He'd make a big difference to the midfield if fit. If be happy with Hastings having another go at 10.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 6:19 am

Outrageous!!!

Just watched the game after recording the match on sky. Recording ended as Kinghorn was lining up the last kick. Thanks sky!!!

Anyway.

Turner was immense. He was absolutely blowing by the end of the game. Poor lad needed subbed.

Kinghorn was our Motm.

Toolis put in a great shift.

George Horne showed he's got a future.

Now the bad

Hogg was quiet

Hastings was inconsistent (McGinnty outplayed him by far)

Matt Fagerson was found wanting

Our starting props were anonymous

Swinson was ineffective

McGuigan was awful

We were well in control but when the yanks (who credit due played really well) upped the intensity and physicality, we just couldn't match it.

I'm really hoping that a young young squad coupled with 30 degree heat were the major factors and this was more a one off result.

We need a result next week or we could be in a pickle

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 6:25 am

I had the same problem with my recording, the match went on for ages with the water breaks and injuries and mine cut out even before the final try.

I had given up on us winning by that stage anyway, so was not that surprised at the result.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 7:12 am

I had the same problem and the same happened last week - obviously ran over schedule and the recordings ended!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 7:28 am

Logan Trotter with some nice tries for the under 20s

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 7:48 am

Just remember guys, while this was not great at least you do not have to watch England.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by jimbopip on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 7:54 am

tigertattie wrote:Outrageous!!!

Just watched the game after recording the match on sky. Recording ended as Kinghorn was lining up the last kick. Thanks sky!!! Comedy gold, "The match comes down to this last kick...

Anyway.

Turner was immense. He was absolutely blowing by the end of the game. Poor lad needed subbed. Totally agree, just hope he recovers for next week. he's probably the find of the tour.

Kinghorn was our Motm. Played very well, but if I'm being hypercritical: twice he made a great break and had men on his shoulder but chose to go on himself and took it into contact. White line fever?

Toolis put in a great shift. Yes he did. Looked shattered by the last ten minutes.

George Horne showed he's got a future. A real class act, but still a work in progress.

Now the bad

Hogg was quiet I think the narrowness of the pitch didn't help him. Also, he doesn't need to be captain: he should just concentrate on being himself.

Hastings was inconsistent (McGinnty outplayed him by far) this is a concern. Everyone seems to think he's the real deal but He doesn't seem to impose himself on games the way the best 10's do. Again being hypercritical: the long pass to put Fife in was good but the Trumpettes would have wanted us to score in the corner rather than under the posts. We needed to give the kicker a better chance than that.

Matt Fagerson was found wanting No he wasn't. he's the only teenager to make his debut in the pack for Scotland, youngest no.8 debutant. He was up against a big pack and running in 36 degree heat. He has a future but he still has a lot to learn.

Our starting props were anonymous

Swinson was ineffective Quite often the best 6's are lauded for the "unseen work " they do. There is a fine line between that and being criticised for not being seen to do anything. However, I still think Harley would have been a better choice.

McGuigan was awful His kicking certainly was. But he never really got that much ball to run with.

We were well in control but when the yanks (who credit due played really well) upped the intensity and physicality, we just couldn't match it. I'm not sure the conditions didn't play their part. Certainly at 21-3 I thought the pack looked very comfortable.

I'm really hoping that a young young squad coupled with 30 degree heat were the major factors and this was more a one off result.

We need a result next week or we could be in a pickle No. It is a tour where we want to learn about players who might make the World Cup. In that sense results are irrelevant.


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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 8:05 am

Jimbo that's the most advanced forum skills I've ever seen from you!  clap

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 8:11 am

Has Turner proven enough in the scrum? His work in the loose and at line-outs was not really in doubt. It was his weakness at scrum time that held him back.

Looking forward there is certainly an argument for a Bradbury - Denton - Ritchie back row against Argentina if Hamilton and M Fagerson did not cover themselves in glory.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 8:14 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Jimbo that's the most advanced forum skills I've ever seen from you!  clap

Absolute quote function mastery

Don't get me wrong, fagerson has a future at 8 but last night showed he's not ready. He's certainly worth keeping in mind for the future
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by jimbopip on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 8:17 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Has Turner proven enough in the scrum? His work in the loose and at line-outs was not really in doubt. It was his weakness at scrum time that held him back.

Looking forward there is certainly an argument for a Bradbury - Denton - Ritchie back row against Argentina if Hamilton and M Fagerson did not cover themselves in glory.

Yes, and Hamilton has just pledged himself to the Luvvies. Laugh

Also, was I hallucinating or did we end up with a backrow of Swinson-Denton-Brown ? I know Denton and Brown were on at the same time but can't remember who else was there.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 8:21 am

Valiant effort from the under 20s almost coming back from 17 points down but lose 39-33 to Georgia to finish 10th.

All tournament we've been strong in open play but lacking in a lot of the basics of the game. We've also made a lot of mistakes. Wil be a real learning experience and most will be back next year so onwards and upwards!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 8:46 am

The U20s game ended up being really entertaining. I was just about resigned to us getting battered and the Georgians ran out of steam very badly in the last 10 mins, letting us right back into the game. Just to much to make up in the end, but a valiant effort again against a much more powerful pack.

Logan Trotter looks like a player who has a future, he has got some wheels and a very good step.

Rory Darge as well. I think he has played in every game, despite being only 18. He needs to fill out a bit, but he looks a prospect. As has been said, we will see a lot of these kids back again next year and it will be fairer to judge them then.

I hope they keep Redpath on as the coach though, he really seems to have added something to the group, who looked pretty outclassed in the 6N. They have been decently competitive in all their games here and got a good win against Ireland. It would have been very easy to drop right out of the top group this year, the standard was very high. Credit to Redpath and the kids that they did not. It would be good to see what he could do with the same group over another 12 months.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by bsando on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 10:57 am

We didn't deserve to win that, hats off to the USA though they did very well in the second half. Townsend put out a slightly too experimental side IMO. Swinson at 6 seemed a bit pointless to me but I'm sure GT had his reasons. I would rather have seen Denton start there perhaps? And then have Bradbury on the bench as cover.

Overall I think that was an excellent match for learning more about our depth and the strengths/weaknesses of the new generation of players. Some players certainly stepped up and others now know where they can improve at international level. It was great to see Hastings pull the strings from the start and I think he did alright actually he just lacked a little confidence. I see a lot of potential there.

Zander Fagerson seems to knock on a lot (yes it was a greasy pill). I think this is an area of his game he needs to sure up a bit.

I've been very impressed with McCallum and would be happy to see him start against Arg but Berghan is obviously the sensible choice.

Zanders brother did very well I thought, despite a few unforced errors. He is going to grow into a formidable no.8 for Glasgow and Scotland. He definitely reads the game very well and makes good decisions.

Just a thought on Townsend's selections for that match... Hogg was captain, Swinson was at 6, Kinghorn kicking for goal, Hogg kicking for touch  Headscratch There is too much going on there in my opinion. I would have have said Hogg is captain, okay, but Hastings can kick for touch and goal as he is more than capabale. Bradbury or Denton could have filled in at 6 with Swinson on bench as cover. Hopefully GT recognised these selections as slightly confusing and detrimental to the flow of the sides performance because that is how it appeared to me, especially when Brown, Swinson and Fagerson made up the backrow by the end ???

For Argentina

Dell
Turner
Berghan
Carmichael
Gilchrist
Bradbury
Ritchie
Denton
SHC
P Horne
McGuigan
Grigg
Bennett
Kinghorn
Hogg

Bhatti
Brown
McCallum
Toolis (Gray if available)
Fagerson
Horne
Hastings
Jackson (Taylor if fit)

I think Carmichael and Turner (who is 1 try away from equalling Ross Ford's 5 try's for Scotland in 110 tests) should both start, they have both been excellent in both matches and I love Turner's throw, it is superior to MacInally and Brown's in my opinion. I think Hastings and Horne can bench. Horne is exciting when he gets it right but SHC has the better all round game and controls the ball well. I'd also have M Fagerson benching as backrow cover for Denton.

Hope we can finish the tour off with a good win and show some progress!
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 12:00 pm

Duncan Taylor leaving without having played!

Head Coach Gregor Townsend today confirmed the 28-man Scotland squad to travel from Houston, Texas to Argentina for the third and final Test of the 2018 summer tour.[size=32]Scotland will complete the campaign against the Pumas at the Estadio Centenario inResistencia this Saturday 23 June (kick-off 4.40pm, 8.40pm UK time), which will be shown live on Channel 4.[/size]
With one match left on tour – and only 23 able to feature in a match-day squad – Townsend has released five players from the touring party to streamline preparations and maximise the post-season break for those not set to feature.
Those leaving the touring party are Glasgow Warriors trio Matt Fagerson, Ruaridh Jackson and Grant Stewart, Saracens centre Duncan Taylor and back-row Luke Hamilton, who sustained a shoulder injury in yesterday’s Test match against USA.
Townsend said: “It was always our intention to travel to Argentina with a reduced squad. The 28-man group travelling to Resistencia will now have the opportunity to bounce back from last night’s defeat with an improved performance.


FORWARDS (15)
Simon Berghan (Edinburgh), Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors), Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh), Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Lewis Carmichael (Edinburgh), Allan Dell (Edinburgh), David Denton (Leicester Tigers), Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh), Murray McCallum (Edinburgh), Stuart McInally CAPTAIN (Edinburgh), Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), George Turner (Glasgow Warriors), Ben Toolis (Edinburgh).
BACKS (13)
Mark Bennett (Edinburgh), Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors), Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons), Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Scarlets), Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors), George Horne (Glasgow Warriors), Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors), Lee Jones (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh), James Lang (Harlequins), Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks), Charlie Shiel (Edinburgh).

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 12:18 pm

So Hoggy not going home, as previously stated. I guess the lack of wingers means that Kinghorn will be required there.

I think that Dougie Fife might be staying as well, as Lee Jones named in the squad and he has already gone home! He actually looked pretty sharp when he came on, more than BG did to be fair!

So from that 28, I think we may get

Dell
McInally
Berghan
Gilchrist
Toolis
Bradbury
Ritchie
Denton
Horne G
Hastings
Fife
Horne P/Lang
Bennett
Kinghorn
Hogg

Fagerson/McCallam
Brown/Turner
Bhatti
Carmichael
Swinson
SHC
Horne P/Lang
Harris/McGuigan


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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 12:23 pm

So we're all in agreement.

For Argentina we need more Edinburgh players and less Glasgow ones

Makes sense really
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 3:02 pm

Not usually a great fan of iain Morrison analysis, but he seems to have got his one about right.


Iain Morrison: Scotland embarrassed and beaten by USA brawn Scotland coach Gregor Townsend will have much to think about following his side's first defeat to the USA. Picture: Neil Hanna Iain Morrison Published: 09:39 Sunday 17 June 2018 Share this article window.onload = function () { $('div[class^="article-sharetool"] a').sharetool(); }; var requestParam = "$m.request.httpRequest.getParameter('articleId')"; var index = requestParam.indexOf("-"); var conversionEventParam = "ContentId(1.4755751)"; var pointIndex = conversionEventParam.indexOf("."); var articleID = conversionEventParam.substring(pointIndex + 1, conversionEventParam.length - 1); Sign Up To Our Daily Newsletter Sign up var ipaddress; $.getJSON("https://api.ipify.org/?format=json", function(data) { ipaddress = data.ip; }); $('.newsletter-form .newsletter-input').keypress(function(){ $('.alert').hide(); $(this).focus(); }) $('.newsletter-form').on('submit', function(event){ event.preventDefault(); $(this).find('.newsletter-submit').attr('disabled'); $('.alert').hide(); var email = $(this).find('input[name="newsletter-email"]').val(); $.ajax({ type: "GET", url: "/ajax", data: { action: "hubspotUserData", email: email, source: "The Scotsman in article", opt_in: "scot_opt_in", hs_context: "{'ipAddress':" + ipaddress + "}", source_url: location.href, source_website_category: "Scotland" }, dataType: "text" }).done(function(data) { $(this).find('.newsletter-submit').removeAttr('disabled'); if(data.indexOf("true") >= 0){ $('.newsletter-content .alert').html('Thanks, ' + email + ' has been added to our newsletter. If this is the first time you have subscribed to any brand from Johnston Press, please check your inbox to verify your email address.').addClass('alert-success').show(); } else { $('.newsletter-content .alert').html('Sorry, there seem to be some issues. Please try again later.').addClass('alert-info').show(); } }); $(this).find('input').val(''); }); 0 Have your say It was a weekend of surprises. England were 12-0 to the good against South Africa after 13 minutes but failed to add to that score and lost. Scotland scored a cracker of a try against the USA Eagles on exactly 60 seconds after Stuart Hogg sent Blair Kinghorn streaking towards the try line. After 35 minutes the Scots were 21-6 ahead and still the Eagles found a way to win, their first ever against Scotland. READ MORE: USA 30 - 29 Scotland: Scots stunned in rugby upset Gregor Townsend fielded a young and inexperienced side several of whom did their prospects no harm at all. George Horne looked lively, won a penalty try and might have scored a second when his brother Peter put him through a gap only for the little scrummy to spill the ball. Defining Your Style Rules Is Easy with eBay Defining Your Style Rules Is Easy with eBay Kate Thornton, Heidi Range, Kimberley Walsh and friends share the style choices that work for them, to help you figure out what works for you. #aylsponsor_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c{{opacity:0.5;}} #aylsponsor_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c:hover{{opacity:1;}}Sponsored by eBay .ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-textcolor{color:#000;} .ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-flex.ayl-img{border-color:#000;} #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-cta:hover{color:#000;text-decoration:underline;} #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c{ position:relative;display:flex;align-items:stretch;background:#f9f9f9;cursor:pointer;border:1px solid #efefef } #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c .ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-flex.ayl-img{ background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;width:40%;background-repeat:no-repeat;border-width:0;border-right-width:2px;border-style:solid;cursor:pointer; } #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c p{ cursor:pointer;font-size:15px;line-height:17px; } #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c .ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-flex.ayl-text{ box-sizing:border-box;padding:5px 10px 20px 10px;width:60%;position:relative; } #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c .ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-flex.ayl-text h3{ font-size:18px;line-height:19px;padding:0px;margin:0px;cursor:pointer; } #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-cta{ display:block;font-size:12px;line-height:6px;cursor:pointer;transition-duration:0.3s;width:auto; } #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-sp{ position:absolute;bottom:1px;right:5px;color:#4d4d4d;font-family: open-sans,sans-serif; font-weight: 400;letter-spacing:normal; font-size: 1rem; line-height: 1.2; } @media screen and (max-width: 720px){ #ayl-wrapper{padding-left: 10px;padding-right: 10px;width: 100%} #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c .ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-flex.ayl-img{width:100%;} #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c .ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-flex.ayl-text{width:100%;} #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c{display:block;} #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-cta {margin-top:10px;} #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c .ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-flex.ayl-text > p {display: none;} #ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c .ayl_df53762d86eed2a3321ad667c3deda3c-flex.ayl-img{border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:2px;height:150px;} } .ayl_optout_button{ right:5px !important; } His halfback partner also emerged with a heap of positives. The odd kick went astray but more often than not they found their mark and one, midway through the first half, bounced into touch six inches from the corner flag. Adam Hastings looked better in the first half when Scotland had some ball to play with, less impressive when the Eagles dominated possession and the same was true for most of his colleagues, but his final pass for Dougie Fife’s final score was a thing of beauty and could, on another day, have won this match for Scotland. Instead Blair Kinghorn missed a tricky conversion just as he has missed a much easier penalty attempt in the first half. Perhaps Hastings should have been handed the kicking duties?Despite those mistakes off the tee Kinghorn was the pick of the Scots. In addition to that early try he made a brilliant break in both halves of the match and he fulfills the same role for Scotland as Izzy Folau does for the Wallabies. Not insulting sexual minorities but instead the leggy winger is tasked with recovering the restarts.The difference between the two teams was sheer size and bulk and you’ll know what they say when a good big ‘un takes on a good little ‘un. No where was this more evident than in the midfield. Paul Lasike, a Kiwi of Tongan heritage, was up against another Kiwi Nick Grigg with Scottish heritage but the Eagle had an advantage of at least four stones. It was the same story in the forwards where almost every set scrum ended up with the front row forwards chewing the Houston grass although by the looks of him, the Eagles hooker Joe Taufete’e is accustomed to something a lot more substantial. The 20 stone hooker scored a try late in the first half and another early in the second to effectively win this match. The second of the scores was truely eye-popping as the four-square hooker brushed off a double tackle from Luke Hamilton and his own opposite number George Turner on his way to the line.It isn’t just in individual tackles that size matters. The Scots never got to grips with Taufete’e but actually coped with Lasike pretty well. The modern game has numerous breakdowns, 100+ per match, and at just about every one of them someone in blue is having to shunt someone in white off the ball to prevent a turnover. When the opposition are that much bigger/stronger the smaller players are worn out that much faster and Scotland’s second half performance looked weary.On one occasion Matt Fagerson made the mistake of running straight into Taufete’e and the Scottish number eight was bundled backwards several yards. Fagerson is a talent, hard working, skilled and honest but by international standards he is simply too small to use as a ball carrier and that much was proven in Houston. He also made the mistake under a high ball that led to the final USA try so this was probably one Test to forget for the young breakaway. Tim Swinson is another honest soldier who will never persuade anyone he is back row material. Scotland could have had an easy second half score, and much nearer the posts, had he passed inside to the supporting George Turner after one run up the right wing late in the game. Not only did Swinson fail to pass, which was poor, he failed to even look, which is criminal.After an impressive first forty the Scots couldn’t get hands on the ball in the second half and only regained control of this match when they brought some of the big beasts off the reserve bench late in the game, David Denton and Grant Gilchrist were especially effective. Gregor Townsend will rue the fact that the Eagles recorded their first ever win over Scotland at his expense but he knows a lot more about his team now than he did after the Canada game and he also knows that a full Scotland team would not wilt under the Eagles’ second half physical onslaught as this one did.What might worry the Scotland coach is his players inability to hold onto the slippery ball given all the sweat that Houston’s hot and humid conditions produced. The exact same hot and humid conditions await Scotland in Japan next year.

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/iain-morrison-scotland-embarrassed-and-beaten-by-usa-brawn-1-4755751

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by George Carlin on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 1:47 am

I didn't see the game so I really appreciate the detailed comments above. 

Unlike some people, I have no issue with losing games like this if we learn something about the players. You cannot have risk without opportunity and some of these guys needed an arsekicking by a hungry, test class team (which is what this Eagles side was). 

Ignore the idiotic comments about this being some sort of embarrassment for Scotland - I would much rather see what a new crop of players can do. This Scottish side would never have been put out against a SANZAR nation.
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 2:36 am

I had a feeling we would get pipped by the States. Delighted for them but gutted we didn't put in the second half performance. As with any loss, developmental or not, it's still disappointing.

Lots to work on. I'd be tempted to have Lang in at 10 with Horne outside him as an experienced head and Hastings on the bench to cover, I've been more impressed with what I've seen from Lang than Hastings to be honest.

Edinburgh pack and a little shake up of backs is the way to go I think, with Kinghorn, Hogg and Fife in the back three. G Horne is a great prospect but have the feeling Toonie will go with SHC for a more controlled game.

Argentina will probably throw the kitchen sink at us. I think Toonie needs to establish proper roles within the team. I think if McInally is fit having him as captain will help immensely, as I don't think Hogg is a leader, more of a mentor/advisor.

Shame about Taylor - will we see him in blue again or is it another case of what could of been like with Joe Ansbro?


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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by tigertattie on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 3:50 am

George Carlin wrote:I didn't see the game so I really appreciate the detailed comments above. 

Unlike some people, I have no issue with losing games like this if we learn something about the players. You cannot have risk without opportunity and some of these guys needed an arsekicking by a hungry, test class team (which is what this Eagles side was). 

Ignore the idiotic comments about this being some sort of embarrassment for Scotland - I would much rather see what a new crop of players can do. This Scottish side would never have been put out against a SANZAR nation.

Yeah some people are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Disappointing result but hardly an embarrassment. Did you see Reporting Scotland's news coverage of the game last night? "Scotland's Blair Kinghorn missed a the kick which resulted in Scotland losing to the US" Feck off Reporting Scotland, it wasn't Kinghorn's fault we lost!

I think that Toonie picked just too inexperienced a team to roll out against the US. Lessons will have been learned and sometimes you learn more in defeat than you do in victory.

Personally I'd have sprinkled a couple more experienced heads into the starting pack to help the youngsters out but hey ho!
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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 4:43 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I had the same problem and the same happened last week - obviously ran over schedule and the recordings ended!

Not sure about everyone else, but my recording started 10 mins before the programme did, so likewise lost the end of the game. Must have been confusion around the scheduling as I'm not with Sky but had the same issue.

Not sure Hogg should be captain, he’s still too individual. He ran into M.Fagerson at one point, and went mental at him for it, smashing the ball to the ground etc. The lad is playing his first international, wasn’t having a great game, and his captain, and probably the highest profile player, had a proper strop at him for being in the way. Now granted you could say he shouldn’t have been there, but at the same time Hoggy ran right into him.

Backrow - none of them really played well. Fagerson is young and should continue to improve, he may well become the future 8 for Scotland, but he's not ready yet. However that game will be a good learning experience for him, about what it takes at international level, considering that was a tier 2 side. Hamilton was largely anonymous, I've not seen much of him to be fair, so no idea if that's his normal level of performance. Swinson - Why?! He'd got no business being on the pitch let alone out of position on the pitch.

Horne Jr & Hastings - both played well enough, Horne Jr especially. His passing was crisp and he looked a threat with the ball.

Mcguigan - Not his greatest game, he seems pretty inconsistent, going from being good to poor from game to game.

Kinghorn - Trying to be objective here, as I think he was was very good, making breaks with the ball and probably did more than Hoggy and McGugian combined. However, to try and balance this out, he did get quite blinkered at times when an offload might have been on.

Turner - his work in the loose is impressive, the man can't stop scoring, also I think all our lineouts worked (can't recall any going wrong?) so fair play to him for that too. At the scrum was where he struggled slightly in the 6 nations, but he wasn't really tested here.

Overall there are quite a few things to be positive about, and quite a few things Toonie should have learnt that can be factored in going forward. This tour should be a learning experience for the coaches and players, and I think so far it has been.

Against Argies, I'd be tempted to go with the following:

1. Dell
2. Turner
3. Berghan
4. Gilco
5. Toolis
6. Bradbury
7. Ritchie
8. Denton
9. Horne
10. Hastings
11. Fife
12. Lang
13. Bennett
14. Kinghorn
15. Hoggy

I've left Rambo out as he's been injured/recovering, during this tour, I wouldn't risk him in this game if he's not 100%, and even if he is 100% he's probably due a rest. He's had a long season with Edinburgh, played near enough 80 mins in every game during the 6 nations. If there was a player who could do with a summer off it's him.

I've also left McGuigan out as I'm not convinced by him and I think Fife deserves a chance to start.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 4:55 am

Danny Wilson confirmed, looks like we're playing hardball with Ulster too

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/18/06/18/danny-wilson-appointed-scotland-assistant-coach

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 5:38 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Danny Wilson confirmed, looks like we're playing hardball with Ulster too

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/18/06/18/danny-wilson-appointed-scotland-assistant-coach

Good news for the Glasgow boys who need the TLC in the forwards for lack of better at club level.

As a Wasps fan a little disappointed he's not coming to us, especially after the utter mullering at the hands of Exeter this year!

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 8:12 am

I agree with Spoons on the team except swapping Lang and P Horne. Not too many choices in it really. BG is pretty similar.

Bench of Brown, Bhatti, Fagerson, Swinson, Carmichael, SHC, Lang, L Jones

Really don't have options on the back row. I don't want to see Swinson at 6.

5 missing out: McInally (assuming he is crocked), McCallum (will get a chance before long if he keeps improving and Z Fagerson keeps stagnating), Shiel (there as a last ditch back-up), Grigg (he is what he is at this point), Harris (Loses out to L Jones for the 23 spot)

If Ulster want McFarland, they ought to pay the SRU at least the same amount as what they had to pay Wasps for Wilson. Should agree the A Carroll/Torres deal with Ulster (Chelsea agreed to pay £15 million more than Liverpool had to pay Newcastle for him)

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 8:19 am

On Z Fagerson, I'm struggling to remember the last time I've been impressed with him at international level - stagnated is certainly a good word to describe his progress. Leaks penalties at scrums and currently isn't making up for that in the loose. Indeed McCallum's displays off the bench this tour have been more standout, so you could argue Fagerson is currently 3rd choice.

He needs to be careful as when Nel returns he could end up 4th choice and out the world cup squad! I suspect not as he's going to get a lot of gametime for Glasgow whereas McCallum will probably only be playing when the internationals are away.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 8:23 am

It's OK boys, we've soften the Argies up for you. Very Happy

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 8:31 am

LordDowlais wrote:It's OK boys, we've soften the Argies up for you. Very Happy


I think Wales’ great success is going to cause us problems – we’re certainly going to face a very different beast than if we played them first up and caught them by surprise (i.e. them not realising how bad they currently were!). It is incredible just how easily Wales put them away with what was a fairly inexperienced Welsh team – I don’t think anyone saw that coming (even probably Gatland). Wales certainly played some great rugby but Argentina were really disappointing.

We’re going to face a wounded animal on Saturday, one that will be desperate to get a positive result to give them some confidence going into the Rugby Championship (I can see them getting pumped most games!)


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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by BigGee on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 9:00 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:I agree with Spoons on the team except swapping Lang and P Horne. Not too many choices in it really. BG is pretty similar.

Bench of Brown, Bhatti, Fagerson, Swinson, Carmichael, SHC, Lang, L Jones

Really don't have options on the back row. I don't want to see Swinson at 6.

5 missing out: McInally (assuming he is crocked), McCallum (will get a chance before long if he keeps improving and Z Fagerson keeps stagnating), Shiel (there as a last ditch back-up), Grigg (he is what he is at this point), Harris (Loses out to L Jones for the 23 spot)



Lee Jones went home crocked after the first match, he definitely won't be playing, was replaced by Fife.

The other back row option, which no one has considered yet, is for Brown to fill in again, probably from the bench, as he did last week. That would mean all three hookers playing. Turner has been playing well and McInally, the tour captain, would surely have gone home if not going to be fit for this game.

Brown actually fills in pretty well as a flanker, he has done it for Glasgow as well in the past.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 9:10 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:We’re going to face a wounded animal on Saturday, one that will be desperate to get a positive result to give them some confidence going into the Rugby Championship (I can see them getting pumped most games!)

Surely Scotland will be out to prove a point after getting beaten by the USA ?

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 9:13 am

Absolutely, but we're in a different position from Argentina - they were humiliated at home 2 games in a row against a weakened Wales team. We put out a hugely inexperienced team to experiment with some players and came up short. We obviously want to win this game but Argentina will be hurting a lot more than we are going into this. If we'd put our our strongest team against USA we probably would have won relatively comfortably in the end.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 9:16 am

I think you will beat Argentina, quite comfortably.

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Re: Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 9:53 am

BigGee wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:I agree with Spoons on the team except swapping Lang and P Horne. Not too many choices in it really. BG is pretty similar.

Bench of Brown, Bhatti, Fagerson, Swinson, Carmichael, SHC, Lang, L Jones

Really don't have options on the back row. I don't want to see Swinson at 6.

5 missing out: McInally (assuming he is crocked), McCallum (will get a chance before long if he keeps improving and Z Fagerson keeps stagnating), Shiel (there as a last ditch back-up), Grigg (he is what he is at this point), Harris (Loses out to L Jones for the 23 spot)



Lee Jones went home crocked after the first match, he definitely won't be playing, was replaced by Fife.

The other back row option, which no one has considered yet, is for Brown to fill in again, probably from the bench, as he did last week. That would mean all three hookers playing. Turner has been playing well and McInally, the tour captain, would surely have gone home if not going to be fit for this game.

Brown actually fills in pretty well as a flanker, he has done it for Glasgow as well in the past.

RDW has him in his list of 28 players who made the journey earlier on. If he is out, then Harris

I would rather not have a hooker playing at 7. Would have hoped we could have called someone up or kept M Fagerson if we are that short.

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