England summer thread - 2018

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England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 May 2018, 12:02 am

First topic message reminder :

First test squad is announced next week, and the rumour is Nick Gubbins will be selected to open, and this would be the prospective team...

Cook
Gubbins
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Leach
Anderson

With James Vince as 12th man

What do we reckon?
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:06 am

Agreed Olly .....he's also not quite as fast as the genuine quicks. Nor does he have the height of someone like Finn

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:08 am

Imam gets away with an LBW overturned on review first over - didn't think it would be going over the stumps, but it was!
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:08 am

Good start from England. Early wicket, however, overturned on review.

Ah doesn't matter, he's gone a few balls later. 0/1.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:20 am

Duty281 wrote:Good start from England. Early wicket, however, overturned on review.

Ah doesn't matter, he's gone a few balls later. 0/1.

If it was allowed, I would have wanted to review that review! Wink I didn't think the ball was going to get up as much as predicted on screen.

Anyway, as you say, doesn't matter. Decent catch by Root - should have been taken but too often recently those sort of chances have gone down. Hopefully, it'll help his and England's confidence.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:22 am

It's always good to see someone making George Dobbel look like the prize turkey he is.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:27 am

Ball swinging and already some fine takes by Bairstow. He's a massively improved keeper (as my man Stewart was saying in the week).

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:27 am

Superb bowling from Anderson and Broad so far. A consistently brilliant line and length (!).

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:36 am

Don't quite know how Sohail has managed to survive 20 balls, seems to have edged or missed everything so far
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by KP_fan on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:38 am

ball is seaming & swinging amply and I don't know how a bowl first pitch might have been any more helpful

But now that Pak has bitten the bullet and batted first....their spinnr will come into play in 4th inning even if chase is 180 odd

Eng seamers going at 80mph....a yard faster and they will make batsmen struggle
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:42 am

Two down. Broad deserves that. Pakistan in early difficulty.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:43 am

Duty281 wrote:Two down. Broad deserves that. Pakistan in early difficulty.

Thankfully they didn't listen to Michael Vaughan and drop their best bowler.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:44 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Two down. Broad deserves that. Pakistan in early difficulty.

Thankfully they didn't listen to Michael Vaughan and drop their best bowler.

Laugh Laugh

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 11:57 am

Hopefully Sam Curran will do better on Test debut than his brother Tom today playing his first game in England this year.

In Surrey's RL50 game at Kent, the elder Curran began with figures of 0.2-0-16-0. For the anoraks amongst us - a four, a single off a no ball, another single off another no ball and then a free-hit 6.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 12:03 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Hopefully Sam Curran will do better on Test debut than his brother Tom today playing his first game in England this year.

In Surrey's RL50 game at Kent, the elder Curran began with figures of 0.2-0-16-0. For the anoraks amongst us - a four, a single off a no ball, another single off another no ball and then a free-hit 6.

See this is why I get so fed up with you lot hyping these Surrey guys Wink

Cricinfo has him listed as 6 and as an allrounder for this game, but that seems ridiculous and more down to him being seen as a replacement for Stokes than any inside info on Englands usage of him. I assume he will bat below Buttler and Woakes at 8.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by JDizzle on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 12:11 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Hopefully Sam Curran will do better on Test debut than his brother Tom today playing his first game in England this year.

In Surrey's RL50 game at Kent, the elder Curran began with figures of 0.2-0-16-0. For the anoraks amongst us - a four, a single off a no ball, another single off another no ball and then a free-hit 6.

A little nugget I saw on Twitter this morning - the last three England bowers to debut at a Headingley are Pattinson, Kabir Ali and Mike Smith. Who have a total of three Tests between them! Hopefully there is a few more for Sam...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 12:22 pm

Goose - to be fair to cricinfo, I would guess 6 is where Curran is shown on the official match scorecard. Late additions to a team are normally listed in the same spot as the player they've replaced.

I completely agree that 8 seems a sensible place for Curran in this Test.

As an aside, I'm of the view that the Surrey mafia including myself give as much stick as hype to players from their county side. Hug


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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 12:38 pm

Chris Woakes Cool
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 12:48 pm

As great as it is to see England displaying a masterclass in swing bowling on home conditions this only papers ove rthe issues. Yes County bowling can be effective when theres a touch of green and humid conditions. Broad Anderson and Woakes can get away with bowling at moderate paces and terrify the Pakistanis ( Apparently Broad and Anderson have taken 50 wickets each against them), which is fine and dandy when it comes to bowling at Asian teams at Trent Bridge on an overcast morning....
..but the trajecotry they were trying to go on was developing bowlers who could get 10 wickets on flat foriegn pitches. I dont see anyone in this side ( except Anderson at his best and hes on the verge of retiring) whos going to do that.
All 4 seamers are very much home track county specialists. They arent quite quite Darren Stevens but we still dont have a proper 90mph bowler, a 7 foot giant, or a truely skilled spinner.
Theres also of course the question of Englands batting.

I have a hard time being positive about this England side Rolling Eyes


Currans having a hard time of it early on. In 4 overs hes shipped only 6 less runs that Anderson and Broad did in 14.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 12:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:Whichever side wins the toss will probably want to field first, given England's batting woes. Root tried the confident, trust-in-the-batting approach last time, and it failed miserably.

Yep, should have done!

Pakistan would bite your arm off for 250, now.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 1:02 pm

Good morning for England, bowled well, caught their chances - good start for them
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 1:05 pm

Stokes has 6 test hundreds and 100 test wickets. He's plenty good enough

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 1:52 pm

Brilliant yorker from Anderson gets Sarfraz, and Pakistan are in real trouble at 78-5. Crucial half hour or so coming up now
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Mat on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 1:53 pm

Good start by England, hopefully continue it on into the afternoon. Nice to see the slips holding some chances for once!

Away from the test, 4-33 for Moeen from 10 overs today against Notts in the RLC. I know there's a few of you who like to keep track of his progress Wink

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 1:57 pm

Six down.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 2:02 pm

Malan drops Faheem, Root diving across him puts him off but probably should have still been taken. Broad on fire today
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 2:03 pm

Mat wrote:Good start by England, hopefully continue it on into the afternoon. Nice to see the slips holding some chances for once!

Away from the test, 4-33 for Moeen from 10 overs today against Notts in the RLC. I know there's a few of you who like to keep track of his progress Wink

Im a big critic but its good to see! Still leaves him a long way from the test team still but I assume hes still central to the limited overs plans, and looking ahead to the next world cup. On that note reports are that Stokes may miss the start of the ODI series, again more opportunities for the likes of Curran to get a go but leaves England needing someone like Moeen to balance the side.


As for today its gone form very good to excellent for England so far.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 2:03 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Malan drops Faheem, Root diving across him puts him off but probably should have still been taken. Broad on fire today

Doesn't matter, as Jimmy gets him LBW next over! Pakistan folding like...England here
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by KP_fan on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 2:48 pm

why did Pak elect to bat
If Curran doesn't pick wickets here, then where will he get them?
But he must get to bowl more than 4 overs to have a chance to get wickets
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by KP_fan on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 2:59 pm

Shadab & Hasan after Amir getting useful double digit scores.....
How good is 150 total
would it be a sufficient "working total" for Pak seamers
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 3:02 pm

KP_fan wrote:why did Pak elect to bat
If Curran doesn't pick wickets here, then where will he get them?
But he must get to bowl more than 4 overs to have a chance to get wickets

Pakistan haven't folded because they elected to bat but because they haven't batted well whilst England's main trio of seamers have delivered skillfully and had good support in the field.

Similar to the first Test albeit with roles reversed.

At this early stage the wicket here seems to me to be a good one - at least for spectators in that it appears to provide a fair challenge between bat and ball. That is how it should be.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 3:17 pm

Shadab is an excellent young prospect!
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 3:20 pm

KP_fan wrote:Shadab & Hasan after Amir getting useful double digit scores.....
How good is  150 total
would it be a  sufficient "working total" for Pak seamers

If they get Cook and Root out in the opening 15 overs, they’ll certainly fancy it.

Different conditions of course, but I remember when England bowled Pakistan out for below 100 in the UAE, only for Pakistan to comeback and win.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 3:28 pm

174 all out. Shadab gifts Sam Curran a Test wicket

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 3:30 pm

3 for Anderson, Broad and Woakes each, and one for Sam Curran - Pakistan all out for 174. Some needless runs given away against the tail, but England would've taken that after losing the toss.

Now time for the batsmen to step up
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 3:33 pm

300 and England will be well ahead.

It’ll be interesting to see how they respond, however, if they end up 40/3...again!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by king_carlos on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 3:34 pm

An excellent couple of sessions by England. Broad answered his critics well as he often does when under pressure. Woakes also bowled well in helpful conditions for his bowling style.

A fortunate last wicket there added some gloss to Sam Currans figures.

I must admit I'm a bit disappointed by him albeit for different reasons to others. Feeling he has been picked to young I struggle to criticise his lack of pace - he will get quicker as he develops physically - but I was frustrated with how he bowled. It felt he was bowling like a player scared of going for runs rather than trying to take wickets. In swinging conditions that was frustrating.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 4:31 pm

England with a good, brisk start. 38/0 inside the opening ten overs.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 5:06 pm

Best opening stand England have had for a while but broken now at 53. Root and Cook together with some confidence and something taken off the new ball could take the game away from Pakistan.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 5:47 pm

England dominating. An utter rarity!

Pakistan need a magic spell of bowling from somewhere; though, if such a spell does arrive, it looks like they'll have to wait until tomorrow.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 6:20 pm

I'm still concerned about what happens when one of these two gets out. England have the potential to fold like a pancake even if they see today out.
They would struggle not to get a lead though, and should be getting a sizeable one.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 6:22 pm

Ooh my, Cook's out. Didn't look like getting out, and that's a cheap wicket for Pakistan.

Chink of light for Pakistan.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 6:25 pm

Duty281 wrote:Ooh my, Cook's out. Didn't look like getting out, and that's a cheap wicket for Pakistan.

Chink of light for Pakistan.

Played so well, looked so comfortable and then got out in such a horrible way like that! A shame, but him and Jennings have at least seen off the new ball, which is more than the openers have done in recent times for England
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 6:25 pm

As predicted on TMS earlier Bess has the "honour" of being nightwatchman.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 7:21 am

Well what an interesting first day - quite the reverse of the first game. Once again electing to bat first seems to have come back to bite the toss winning skipper....not that he can be blamed too much as I see virtually everyone was saying (before the start) how good the pitch looked for batting. But as they say up there "look up not down"...the sky tends to tell the story better at this ground...

England apparently bowled rather better than last week (I didn't get to see any of the Lord's bowling but I gather it lacked a bit - though in fairness I wonder if the general assessment of the bowlers' work might have been more favourable had a few catches been held ! Sometimes the end-product isn't entirely down to the initial input). And in conditions that were a bit tougher for batting Pakistan weren't able to graft successfully through the dangerous spells. Plus Broad seemed to be back in incisive mode (did a jab from Vaughan - however unfair it might have been in any case - serve to rev him up a bit ? Or maybe just a different day , better fortune. Either way all out 174 (itself quite an achievement from 79/7 !) wasn't what the tourists wanted or expected and unless England have one of their collapses in the morning will leave them with an uphill task to get back in the game.

Pleased to see England batting more solidly . Cook does seem to be recovering a bit of form with two handy efforts out of three so far , despite facing his far from favourite attack from an opening left armer with a swinging ball. And I did like what I saw of Jennings today : OK , he - like Stoneman - didn't go on from his start ; but one thing I look for when a player is brought back for a second crack at the top level is whether or not he has learned from his first experiences ; and it appears Jennings has as his footwork was markedly improved against the new ball bowlers...to the point where the umpires took exception to his forward stride (bizarre !). Remains to be seen if he will be any improvement on other recent occupants of the cursed Number Two spot but he was picked when in some apparent form (unlike Stoneman who may have been unfortunate to get the nod for Lord's while in wretched nick as his poor showing there may have greatly harmed his hopes of getting another chance ?) and with form comes confidence...Or perhaps in truth form IS merely confidence ? No matter , the point stands : I'll stop rambling.

England need to continue the good work on day two. Perhaps Craig will oblige with a road map ? I will just watch in hopes...and leave the "what it all means for the future " discussion until end of match...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 7:53 am

We shouldn't be surprised that England had a good first day. First, they could hardly play as badly as they did at Lord's. Secondly, England rarely do wretchedly twice running at home - they leave that to their overseas tours.
Thirdly, Pakistan can be brilliant one week and terrible the next. 174 ought to be terminal for P, as 184 was for E last week.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by LivinginItaly on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 8:04 am

If England can have a solid morning it would seem a perfect situation for the likes of Bairstow, Buttler, and Woakes to play their normal attacking game and completely take the game away from Pakistan. Two hours of Buttler batting, when we already have a lead, against a demoralised attack could be very entertaining.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 8:44 am

Pessimists review:
It was a great comeback from the previous test and frankly 9 months of rubbish.
But the performance was no more than we should be expecting England to deliver in thelse conditions.
Let's not forget Pakistan are pretty rubbish and many of their batsmen facing English conditions for the first time on this tour. Ireland nearly broke them, and they couldn't dominate div2 second XI bowlers.
Once those clouds came over it was tailor made for England's 4 seamers who could bowl at County lengths and speeds and let the ball do the work.
Better batting line ups have been taken out for less first up in England over recent summers ( including England themselves).
We already know that Anderson Broad and Woakes are more than capable of destroying teams when the balls moving. In theory it was tailor made for Curran too but he struggled and the Pakistanis were able to get at him, the one wicket he did get was gifted a bit.
And really they couldve/should've had Pakistan out for less. There were a couple of dropped catches. The tail wagged enough that a sudden England collapse blows the game open again.
England are still reliant on their established stars. Bess didn't even get the ball, curran was between average and poor.
Jennings out for a reasonable 29 is getting more plaudits than it maybe should simply because we have been used to England's openers being so appalling. Apparently that stand was one run short of the best stoneman and cook ever made together. Rather than being a cause for celebration in itself it's more a sigh of relief that England managed what should be the bare minimum.
Looking at that line up its vulnerable. Pakistani bowlers coming out fresh in what could be helpful conditions...if they get the ball moving and get their lengths right England could easily blow a solid position.
They need guys like Malan and Butler to step up with the bat too and at least get into the 30s.
As it is at the moment it's still the established players whovery delivered this position in favourable conditions. Whilst it's a welcome change from being a side in danger of slipping to 7th in the world and getting compared the Athertons failures there's nothing that suggests they are progressing on their path to being a top 2 side who can compete overseas.



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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 10:33 am

Doesn't look like play will be starting on time.

England went from 100/3 to 184 all out in the first test, so it isn't beyond them to replicate that again and only end up with a small lead...or even a small deficit. Certainly, Pakistan have opened up one end with Cook's cheap wicket yesterday, and they're not too far away from the brittle English middle order.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 2:18 pm

Might restart at 14:45.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 3:14 pm

Brisk from England early on, but Root overplayed, with the ball moving about, and he nicks behind.

Good start for Pakistan.

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