England summer thread - 2018

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England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 May 2018, 12:02 am

First topic message reminder :

First test squad is announced next week, and the rumour is Nick Gubbins will be selected to open, and this would be the prospective team...

Cook
Gubbins
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Leach
Anderson

With James Vince as 12th man

What do we reckon?
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 3:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:Brisk from England early on, but Root overplayed, with the ball moving about, and he nicks behind.

Good start for Pakistan.

More a mixed start , I'd say...they'll be very glad to see the back of Root (who will be annoyed with himself for that loose shot !) but the way thirty odd runs came in just six overs at the start will be concerning them in a game where they have so few to defend.

All depends on whether the rather dodgy England middle order (oh for a fit and in form Stokes/Bairstow/Moeen at 6 , 7 and 8 !) can put the serious runs needed on the board this time. Bit of a bonus that Bess has played soundly so far ; but those being paid for their batting really need to stand up today...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 4:02 pm

Well Bess is happy to stand up with the bat, it seems!

England in control for now. A lead of 150+ should be enough. That won't even take 40 overs at this rate...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 4:43 pm

Bess and Malan both playing quite busily ...lead ticking over nicely. Way to go yet ; but at 199/3 at tea we know who is going to enjoy their refreshments better...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 5:08 pm

Amir picks off Malan. A shame for Malan as he was looking set.

Pakistan just hanging in.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 5:23 pm

Five down now, as Pakistan continue to chip away.

Might still be game on if these last five wickets fall tonight.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 5:24 pm

Ah Bess falls one short of a deserved fifty - bit of uneven bounce in the pitch, crucial England get 300+ here
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 5:54 pm

Yep, quite a bit of uneven bounce.

A fourth innings chase of 150+ could prove tricky.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 5:59 pm

That was a shocking LBW given by Oxenford, thank god for DRS!
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 6:03 pm

England have a firm grip on this test. A lead of 100+ would be decent but 150+ puts them in total control you'd think. Bess showing he knows how to handle a bat but can he make an impact with the ball? That remains to be seen. Buttler settling back into test cricket pretty well and Malan still striving for a big score and the pressure must be growing on him.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 6:07 pm

Bairstow removed right before the new ball. Another opening for Pakistan.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 6:11 pm

Duty281 wrote:Bairstow removed right before the new ball. Another opening for Pakistan.

A real nothing dismissal too, not really a special delivery, just feathered it through to Sarfraz. England lead by 86, which is a decent amount, but it all depends on whether Buttler can get going now.

Definitely some spin, and uneven bounce, so if we can get to a lead of 150 we'll be in a really strong position.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 6:45 pm

England now lead by 110 on 284 for 6. The pitch already showing signs of uneven bounce which will help England when they come to bowl again. This is England's match to lose now.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 6:53 pm

Cracking delivery from Abbas to get Woakes caught behind, lovely bowling
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 7:03 pm

I do like how this Pakistani side have kept plugging away and hung on in there. England still well in command but they haven't capitulated.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 7:15 pm

It's a very good lead for England, and if they bowl as well as they did in the first innings, then the test could be finished by tomorrow.

But I still have a nagging doubt because England have to bat last. And if Pakistan bat through Sunday and an hour or so on Monday, then the 4th innings target could reach the awkward 150-200 range on a pitch taking turn and prodigious uneven bounce.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 7:21 pm

England close on 302 for 7 and lead by 128 runs. Buttler will resume tomorrow morning 34 not out out and Curran 16 not out.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 10:02 pm

Another good day for England, but Pakistan are just about hanging in there - they'll realistically need to clean England up in the first hour or so tomorrow to remain in the match for me though.

Curran played some nice shots towards the end of play, hopefully he can get in and support Buttler tomorrow morning...don't hold out much hope for Broad or Anderson lasting long on this pitch! And also hoping for some Buttler fireworks, he's playing another handy innings here
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 10:06 pm

Like Olly, I agree it was good to see Sam Curran play a couple of nice shots right at the end so that he can feel he's made a bit of a contribution along with everyone else who reached double figures. (Entertaining though shortly before that to see him looking all over the place when he had no idea where his shot had gone).  Healthy lead but the pessimist in me would feel happier if England could get lead up to at least 170/180 tomorrow.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 10:08 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:England have a firm grip on this test. A lead of 100+ would be decent but 150+ puts them in total control you'd think. Bess showing he knows how to handle a bat but can he make an impact with the ball? That remains to be seen. Buttler settling back into test cricket pretty well and Malan still striving for a big score and the pressure must be growing on him.

I mentioned to my mate at our cricket club that Malan needs a score, and I was shot down - but despite having a good Ashes (averaging 42.56), his test average in his 23 test innings so far is only 29.00, and averaging only 21.36 in England with a high score of 65. Today he got a genuinely good ball which would have got most if not all out, but its something to watch over the coming games...the media have been quiet on him because of other issues but surely they'll pick up on it soon?

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 1:59 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:England have a firm grip on this test. A lead of 100+ would be decent but 150+ puts them in total control you'd think. Bess showing he knows how to handle a bat but can he make an impact with the ball? That remains to be seen. Buttler settling back into test cricket pretty well and Malan still striving for a big score and the pressure must be growing on him.

I mentioned to my mate at our cricket club that Malan needs a score, and I was shot down - but despite having a good Ashes (averaging 42.56), his test average in his 23 test innings so far is only 29.00, and averaging only 21.36 in England with a high score of 65. Today he got a genuinely good ball which would have got most if not all out, but its something to watch over the coming games...the media have been quiet on him because of other issues but surely they'll pick up on it soon?


Malian's star has fallen somewhat since the Ashes series where he was England's highest run scorer. He struggled in NZ and has struggled so far in England. If England win this test I believe that will buy him more time. It is odd as he looks like he is settled and then gets out for a score around 15 to 30.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 5:39 am

Be a bit harsh on Malan to see him dumped after a couple of ordinary Tests since his generally good Ashes efforts - which rather showed up a few better known teammates. He did get a good ball this time straight after the interval , and had played pretty well before that. I am not suggesting he is the long term "answer" - and I think he is one place too high at four (even though he ended up five this time because of Bess) but given the battle to fill several batting spots at present I reckon he should be persevered with until someone obviously better appears. Buttler has now played two rather un-Buttler like hands at seven and has actually done better than I feared but I remain unconvinced that he should be nailed on as a specialist bat unless he is thought good enough to bat in the top six.
And I am also doubtful of the wisdom of having YJB at five and keeping : he was making a lot of runs at seven and so far hasn't really fired up the order...all of which isn't very helpful as it just means the batting remains unsettled Smile

But that said I'm not unhappy with 302/7 against some handy swing bowlers in dampish conditions. Another thirty or forty would be nice but if conditions remain friendly for the seamers this lead already looks more than useful. And for once the (aging) pace bowlers have had a full day with their feet up before having to come out again...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 11:23 am

Very difficult batting conditions. Could be all over today.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 11:29 am

I thought that was tough on Sam. I could understand where Reifel was coming from - ball rolling up his fingers. However, could daylight or a finger be clearly seen between the ball and the ground? For all Hussain banging on about it being a brave decision by Reifel and applauding him overturning the soft decision of not out, I'm not so sure.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 11:31 am

PS Curran's score of 20 was his highest total in all formats (CC, RL 50 and now Test) this season. As I've been saying, he's got potential with the bat but it needs to produce more meaningful results more often.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 11:40 am

Jonny Bairstow is becoming this England sides Ian Bell. Bairstow fine and dandy hiding at 6/7 'counterattacking'. Basically got nothing to lose have a dart if it comes off look a million dollars if he fails blame the top order. Soon as Bairstow moves up the order the extra pressure he wilts. A mirror image of Bell

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 11:43 am

alfie wrote:Be a bit harsh on Malan to see him dumped after a couple of ordinary Tests since his generally good Ashes efforts - which rather showed up a few better known teammates.  He did get a good ball this time straight after the interval , and had played pretty well before that. I am not suggesting he is the long term "answer"  - and I think he is one place too high at four (even though he ended up five this time because of Bess) but given the battle to fill several batting spots at present I reckon he should be persevered with until someone obviously better appears.  Buttler has now played two rather un-Buttler like hands at seven and has actually done better than I feared but I remain unconvinced that he should be nailed on as a specialist bat unless he is thought good enough to bat in the top six.
And I am also doubtful of the wisdom of having YJB at five and keeping : he was making a lot of runs at seven and so far hasn't really fired up the order...all of which isn't very helpful as it just means the batting remains unsettled Smile

But that said I'm not unhappy with 302/7 against some handy swing bowlers in dampish conditions. Another thirty or forty would be nice but if conditions remain friendly for the seamers this lead already looks more than useful.  And for once the (aging) pace bowlers have had a full day with their feet up before having to come out again...

I just feel he needs a knock of substance now as he can't live off of the last Ashes series form forever. I reckon he will remain in the side for the summer at least so he has more chances ahead to score heavily. As long as the team is winning I can't see too many changes but he needs to start taking advantage of the starts he is getting or he will become like James Vince. Good starter - can't hang around.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 11:46 am

England now in total control on 344 for 9 as Broad is caught on the ropes. The lead is 170.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by compelling and rich on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 11:52 am

good position but still frustrating watching Englands tail. why broad is playing that shot when all he needs is a single to get butler get on strike. get the expert on strike

love watching butler in full flow, hope he can get the 100 but doubt it now

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:00 pm

A lead of 189, then.

Pakistan are going to need to bat for at least 100 overs in swinging and seaming conditions to stand a chance of winning this test, and the series.

It's more likely that it will be all over today.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:26 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Jonny Bairstow is becoming this England sides Ian Bell. Bairstow fine and dandy hiding at 6/7 'counterattacking'. Basically got nothing to lose have a dart if it comes off look a million dollars if he fails blame the top order. Soon as Bairstow moves up the order the extra pressure he wilts. A mirror image of Bell

You serious , Nathaniel ? Or just having a laugh ?

Look I am on record (consistently) as opposing the move of Bairstow to five : I think it is too much for the keeper (and even his critics now concede that he has developed into a highly competent gloveman) ; and I think he is a brilliant seven and only an adequate five : but to imply that he only scored "easy" runs at 7 and has failed under pressure higher up strikes me as grossly unfair. For one thing it is too early - much as I'd like to see him back at seven it remains to be seen whether he can make a proper go of the higher spot. And it isn't as if he's been getting cleaned up for nothing every hit...

Tell me you're just stirring ?

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:35 pm

Jimmy with the first incision ... Azar is his bunny it seems ! England will fancy putting this to bed early.

Buttler did a fine job with the tail this morning in getting to 80 and the lead to 189. For all my reservations I reckon that has sealed his spot for now (though I'd still rather see him batting ahead of YJB : if he is in as a bat he should play in one of the "sharp" positions - else what have they actually gained from including him ?) the Curran dismissal was "interesting" : Nasser often sides with giving them out ...wonder if he'd have been so keen when he was batting ? But a lot of similar calls in recent years have gone the other way. I don't really care if we could see some consistency...
Anyway Curran did a decent late order job with the bat : hopefully both he - and Bess - will show what they can do in their main jobs today ?

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:39 pm

What a beautiful catch!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:40 pm

alfie wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Jonny Bairstow is becoming this England sides Ian Bell. Bairstow fine and dandy hiding at 6/7 'counterattacking'. Basically got nothing to lose have a dart if it comes off look a million dollars if he fails blame the top order. Soon as Bairstow moves up the order the extra pressure he wilts. A mirror image of Bell

You serious , Nathaniel ? Or just having a laugh ?  

Look I am on record (consistently) as opposing the move of Bairstow to five : I think it is too much for the keeper (and even his critics now concede that he has developed into a highly competent gloveman)  ; and I think he is a brilliant seven and only an adequate five : but to imply that he only scored "easy" runs at 7 and has failed under pressure higher up strikes me as grossly unfair.  For one thing it is too early -  much as I'd like to see him back at seven it remains to be seen whether he can make a proper go of the higher spot. And it isn't as if he's been getting cleaned up for nothing every hit...

Tell me you're just stirring ?
Bairstow is merely a competent keeper no more. His mediocrity was fully evident when we last toured India and his glove work was pathetic. His batting average is 5 is mid 20s showing he's unable to cope with the pressure.

If the keeper bats at 7 then it's a straight choice between buttler and foakes. Bairstow has a county championship average of over 50, therefore he needs to man up

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:42 pm

Pakistan 30/2. Oh my, England are actually going to win a test match!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:51 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
alfie wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Jonny Bairstow is becoming this England sides Ian Bell. Bairstow fine and dandy hiding at 6/7 'counterattacking'. Basically got nothing to lose have a dart if it comes off look a million dollars if he fails blame the top order. Soon as Bairstow moves up the order the extra pressure he wilts. A mirror image of Bell

You serious , Nathaniel ? Or just having a laugh ?  

Look I am on record (consistently) as opposing the move of Bairstow to five : I think it is too much for the keeper (and even his critics now concede that he has developed into a highly competent gloveman)  ; and I think he is a brilliant seven and only an adequate five : but to imply that he only scored "easy" runs at 7 and has failed under pressure higher up strikes me as grossly unfair.  For one thing it is too early -  much as I'd like to see him back at seven it remains to be seen whether he can make a proper go of the higher spot. And it isn't as if he's been getting cleaned up for nothing every hit...

Tell me you're just stirring ?
Bairstow is merely a competent keeper no more. His mediocrity was fully evident when we last toured India and his glove work was pathetic. His batting average is 5 is mid 20s showing he's unable to cope with the pressure.

If the keeper bats at 7 then it's a straight choice between buttler and foakes. Bairstow has a county championship average of over 50, therefore he needs to man up

If you can't see the improvement in Bairstow's keeping I have to wonder if you've actually been watching ! And while Foakes might well have a case as a technically superior keeper I doubt many would suggest Buttler is in that category...
Ah well ...I can see we won't come close to agreeing here so I won't prolong the argument .

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:53 pm

Excellent review by England, and Shafiq departs.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 12:54 pm

That was a seriously great catch by Bess. Ironically he has decreased his own chances of getting a bowl in this innings Smile

Especially as Root's excellent review has just snared the third victim...this should be over by tea.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 3:38 pm

How not to play spin - just f**king swing at it

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 5:53 pm

Duty281 wrote:9/1 available on Pakistan to win the series! 9/1! Or 6/1 if you use the insurance of 'draw no bet'. And 9/2 on Pakistan winning the first test! 9/2!

I make it a 50-50 series, with England's batting being such an utter disgrace, so that's an astonishingly decent price.

Aye, a 50-50 series finishes 1-1. Would have liked a decider, but oh well. England came back impressively, though I think winning the toss in the second test was the worst thing for Pakistan.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by JDizzle on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 6:40 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:9/1 available on Pakistan to win the series! 9/1! Or 6/1 if you use the insurance of 'draw no bet'. And 9/2 on Pakistan winning the first test! 9/2!

I make it a 50-50 series, with England's batting being such an utter disgrace, so that's an astonishingly decent price.

Aye, a 50-50 series finishes 1-1. Would have liked a decider, but oh well. England came back impressively, though I think winning the toss in the second test was the worst thing for Pakistan.

Quite interesting timing, given that the ICC discussed scrapping the toss a week or so ago, that both teams who won the toss this series went on to lose those matches - with both losses not being helped by decisions at the toss.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by KP_fan on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 7:49 pm

--This test followed script like the first one, roles of teams were reversed

regardless of what commentators & experts would tell you.....there was a lot of swing and seam assistance available on D1 & had Pak bowled first it could have been a different game.....huge mistake..but it is what it is

--Eng dug in and everyone got useful 20s and 40s...and then Stokes drove a HUGE big nail in their coffin at the end...his runs came when Pak was down.
Bess would have been my MoM although his wickets came cheap & easy.

--& batting second pak just gave-up.....in their mind a drawn-series, win at Lords was probably enough....didin't fight

Pitch had become uneven by D3....and had Pak fought harder in first 3 innings to give themselves 150 to bowl at.....could have been interesting

--the seaming pitches have papered the cracks in English bowling and if the produce similar pitches against Ind......ind has the seam bowling to exploit such conditions
and a batting that's far superior to pak

Woakes should be an automatic pick if he is fit..although inspite of opportunities he hasn't risen to be an all rounder with the bat.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 9:38 pm

KPFan. Yes, Stokes had a great game, as did Leach and Gubbins! Only kidding. More seriously, England managed their annual trick of being awful one match and then miles better the next.
They've done this time and again in home series in recent years. Can't remember the last time Eng lost two successive home Tests. Different story abroad where they can be fairly dreadful match after match.
Some thought Ed Smith was barmy to play Stokes er, I mean, Buttler but it's turned out to be an inspired selection. Bess has also done well while Curran played a useful knock.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 9:50 pm

I like the look of Bess - he’s clever with his pace and flight, albeit I think he just needs to tweak his release to get a touch more overspin as he undercuts the ball a bit at the moment, but he is only 20! He also seems to have a great temperament and obviously the fact he can hold a bat pretty well is useful too

My love for Jos has been well stated, so glad he’s scoring runs and in the side. Really hope he can nail down a slot for a long time now, especially as he’s a good player of spin and that’ll be needed this winter

I see Woakes and Stokes both have injuries, may not be the worst thing for them to miss the upcoming pointless one day series with Australia so they are fit and rested for the India matches to be honest!

Good to see england put in a good performance - something to build off for the rest of the summer and some optimism albeit tempered at last
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 8:40 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:England have a firm grip on this test. A lead of 100+ would be decent but 150+ puts them in total control you'd think. Bess showing he knows how to handle a bat but can he make an impact with the ball? That remains to be seen. Buttler settling back into test cricket pretty well and Malan still striving for a big score and the pressure must be growing on him.

I mentioned to my mate at our cricket club that Malan needs a score, and I was shot down - but despite having a good Ashes (averaging 42.56), his test average in his 23 test innings so far is only 29.00, and averaging only 21.36 in England with a high score of 65. Today he got a genuinely good ball which would have got most if not all out, but its something to watch over the coming games...the media have been quiet on him because of other issues but surely they'll pick up on it soon?


Olly - JDizzle and I were saying similar to you at the very start of April on the ''New Zealand v England Test Series'' thread. The axing of Vince, continued poor form of Stoneman and then his axing have taken the recent spotlight off Malan but his time will surely be gone before too long if he doesn't start to up that average.

PS I wouldn't make too much of this but I know one Middlesex member who has doubted Malan's place in the Test side from the very start, lambasting his technique and temperament.




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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by KP_fan on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:03 am

sirfredperry wrote:KPFan. Yes, Stokes had a great game, as did Leach and Gubbins! Only kidding. More seriously, England managed their annual trick of being awful one match and then miles better the next.
  They've done this time and again in home series in recent years. Can't remember the last time Eng lost two successive home Tests. Different story abroad where they can be fairly dreadful match after match.
  Some thought Ed Smith was barmy to play Stokes er, I mean, Buttler but it's turned out to be an inspired selection. Bess has also done well while Curran played a useful knock.

Sorry I mean Butler Very Happy
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:15 am

My real worry is just how few players there are in the set-up that you would say are ones we can build a future team around.

Cook, Broad and Anderson have been outstanding for England over long careers but they are most definitely in the twilight of their careers.
Stokes and Woakes struggle with injuries.
Curran and Bess seem to have character, but do they have the skill?
What to do with Buttler & Bairstow?
Root should be making more of his talent and (from a run scoring sense) looking to emulate Steve Smith - who had made 15 centuries in his 34 tests as skipper

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Jetty on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 1:32 am

LondonTiger wrote:My real worry is just how few players there are in the set-up that you would say are ones we can build a future team around.

Cook, Broad and Anderson have been outstanding for England over long careers but they are most definitely in the twilight of their careers.
Stokes and Woakes struggle with injuries.
Curran and Bess seem to have character, but do they have the skill?
What to do with Buttler & Bairstow?
Root should be making more of his talent and (from a run scoring sense) looking to emulate Steve Smith -  who had made 15 centuries in his 34 tests as skipper

Although they have been around a long time Cook is only 33 and Broad 31. Anderson will probably go after the Ashes next year. Both Cook and Broad will probably go to Australia in 2021.

What will that team look like?

Cook
Hameed
Livingstone
Root
Clarke
Stokes (c)
Buttler
Bess
Broad
Tongue
Stone

Anderson will have reached 605 wickets. Sam Curran will be ODI captain and Test replacement for Stokes when injured. Broad will retire with 570 wickets  after Australia.  Smile

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 8:29 am

Steve James in the Times goes:

Gubbins
Bairstow
Root (c)
Clarke
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Bess
Broad
Stone
Barber

News that ECB may be changing their eligibility rules to let Archer in early may change that

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 10:09 am

Jetty wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:My real worry is just how few players there are in the set-up that you would say are ones we can build a future team around.

Cook, Broad and Anderson have been outstanding for England over long careers but they are most definitely in the twilight of their careers.
Stokes and Woakes struggle with injuries.
Curran and Bess seem to have character, but do they have the skill?
What to do with Buttler & Bairstow?
Root should be making more of his talent and (from a run scoring sense) looking to emulate Steve Smith -  who had made 15 centuries in his 34 tests as skipper

Although they have been around a long time Cook is only 33 and Broad 31. Anderson will probably go after the Ashes next year. Both Cook and Broad will probably go to Australia in 2021.

What will that team look like?

Cook
Hameed
Livingstone
Root
Clarke
Stokes (c)
Buttler
Bess
Broad
Tongue
Stone

Anderson will have reached 605 wickets. Sam Curran will be ODI captain and Test replacement for Stokes when injured. Broad will retire with 570 wickets  after Australia.  Smile

Thats very wishful thiniking. I cant think of the last England batsman who was still playing at 36. Cook has been hanging on the since quitting the captaincy as it is. Hes been cagey about retirement rather than outrights aying hes staying on , has 4 more years left in him etc. Its not a physical thiung more just a mental and desire thing, and frankly his patchy form probably hasnt helped either. Not many players would hang on several years after losing the capataincy as their form declines espeically in the intense negative spotlight that England get from foriegn and home press. The Ashes 2021 is still 2 and half years away, thats a long time and Id be very surprised if Cook travels for it. Hes already played far more tests and scored far more runs than any previous England player, and by the end of next summer would be second only to Tendulkar.

Broad is still just on the edge of the realistic age for a seam bowler to keep going till then but physically does he have it in him? He and Anderson have only been kept going this long by being carefuly managed and kept out of the limited overs sides. Hes also rarely effective abroad unless he cranks up and pushes the limits of what his body can deliver, can we expect him to still be able to do that in 3 years time when he stuggled last year and not break down in a 5 match series? I doubt it.The total number of balls hes bowled in tests is getting pretty huge having started so young. Whuilst he may have proved a point in the last test that hes not done yet theres still questions over how much fight he has left in him and how effective he can be away form home, Englands mode is very much to move away from trying to kid themselves that county style bowlers like Broad can do the business on Asian (where he averages 36.9) and Australian pitches ( where he averages over 37). Broad averages 26 in homes tests, hes still effective here .... he never has been in Aus or Asia and hes not going to get better over the next 3 winters. I doubt England would want him for the Ashes even if he was fit.


As for Hameed...hes a long way from rehabilitating himself as a possible test player as it is. Hes also go to prove he can face up to tall fast bowlers on Australian type pitches, something hes never faced in his career. If he is going to be an Ashes opener Id want him to have played some Shield cricket and demonstrated that batsmen that short can cope. Jennings is the guy in at the moment and was unlucky to miss the last ashes tour for Stoneman. Hes certainly young enough to keep improving and more likely to be the kind of player to flourish out there, if he can prove hes good enough to retain a spot that long. Both could make it, Gubbins too...but right now its sticking your neck out to say Hameed will be a test cricketer again at all when he was dropped from his county first XI.


Root should still be going if the captaincy hasnt broken him. Livingstone is amongst the top prospects in County cricket and Id expect him to feature soon. Buttler having replaced Bairstow altogether is a big big call, if nothing else like Stokes he will need managing between three formats and its a lot of extra strain to be keeping tests (plus Foakes would be most peoples Bairstow replacement). A couple of 50s doesnt prove hes a proper test bat yet, and Bairstow remains the 3rd best England have and a superior gloveman.

Bess ..I think we are getting ahead of oursleves a bit here. He definately can hold a bat as an 8 though, and the biggest thing we hav e seen form him is a big game mentality. Im guessing that as much as anything else is what saw him getting call up ahead of the notoriously flakey Moeen whos confidence issues have been well documented and exposed. Going back to Buttler and the desperation to have Stokes in the side even if he cant bowl suggests that they are going back to a focus on " characters" and those who thrive in adversity, lets face it theres plenty of that in foriegn tours for England. Theres definately been an issue for England with them giving up or being easily put off there game leading to the inconsistency that Bayliss has recently moaned about ... there are a lot of shortcomings in skills in the side but theres been players who have often delivered well short of their best.
Ultimately he has to deliver with the ball. His second innings figures are very encouraging, but he got those wickets from inexperienced batsmen trying to slog him once Pakistan had given up. He hasnt yet shown hes a genuine threat or able to tie down an end. IMO Leach is still a better spinner, and whilst I have massive doubts about and English leg spinner ever cutting the mustard Carne got a lot of plaudits for his technical ability and doggedness in the unhelpful conditions he bowled in. Bess is only getting these tests because of injuries to the other two who are both also young and still improving, hes not doing himself any harm and certainly exceeded expectations but inking him in for the next series let alone an ashes in several years time is a big leap IMO. Unless hes scoring centuries (as per Moeen) his batting shouldnt be coming into the equation for selection when Stokes and Woakes are fit.


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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 11:43 am

More relevant and less speculative .... ODI team?

Recent core squad ....
Bairstow: No been great in the tests but last 2 ODI's scored centuries.
Roy: Mediocre IPL , couple of 50s in the RLC
Hales: Not been at his best in the IPL or since coming back
Root: Hopefuly stepping away from the pressure of captaincy and batting 3 in tests will see him back to his best.
Morgan: Ok form wise
Stokes : May miss the first game(s), almost certainly Scotland...no point in risking him
Buttler : Form of his life with the bat.
Woakes: Good form with the ball in IPL and the last test
Rashid: After a long period on the x box hes taking a lot of wickets in the RLC
Moeen: 8 wickets @20 each in the RLC suggests hes finding some confidence with the ball again but struggling for runs
Tom Curran: 8 wickets @13 in the last two RLC games
Wood: Dropped from the test team and returned 1/56 playing the RLc, hardly demanding of retaining his place

Who else might get a look in?
Cranes taking a lot of wickets since his return form injury (but surely couldnt play alongside Rashid?)
Leading wicket taker in the RLC is Parkinson...another leggie and tbh Id never heard of him (and hes nowhere near the england squads) but hes been ripping teams up. It does suggest that legspinners really are very effective in the 50 over format.
Sam Currans shown he has international potential and offers a left arm option
Craig Overtons having a decent season but nothing special
Bess has only played 6 list A games in his career so despite the plaudits from his test performances it would be a hell of a thing for him to get a spot (but not impossible)
Finns been bowling pretty well but surely England have moved on?
Whats worrying is that none of the real 90mph fast bowlers whove been touted as the future are doing much at the moment and demanding a go against Scotland.
Theres the Jofra Archer question of course.... but I assume any change wont come in time to see him selected for these games (even if it will rile the Aussies)

Batsmen ... of those vaguely on the England radar Jennings and Foakes are the only two anywhere near the top of the averages chart in this years RLC but neither likley to get selected.
Westley and Livingstone are both doing well too ...but theres not really any specialist bat spots available in the side, unless they choose cap someone for the sake of it against Scotland.
Malan I dont reaaly see as on the radar for England in ODIs and Duckett is having a poor season; nothing to suggest he will demad forgiveness and rehabilitation with England.

For Aus I'm guessing the side will be largely the same as it has been and something like:
Roy
Bairstow
Root
Morgan
Stokes (assuming fitness)
Buttler
Moeen
Rashid
Woakes
Curran
Curran or Wood

Maybe with some more experimentation / new caps against Scotland.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

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