England summer thread - 2018

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England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 May 2018, 12:02 am

First topic message reminder :

First test squad is announced next week, and the rumour is Nick Gubbins will be selected to open, and this would be the prospective team...

Cook
Gubbins
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Leach
Anderson

With James Vince as 12th man

What do we reckon?
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:46 pm

Watt snares Billings and England are 263 for 6. This is getting interesting.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:47 pm

Think Scotland should win from here. Great fightback from them.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:49 pm

270/6. Don't reckon England would have been able to get to 500 from here, Duty. Smile

All about the wickets - although that has been the case for a while.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:50 pm

guildfordbat wrote:270/6. Don't reckon England would have been able to get to 500 from here, Duty. Smile

All about the wickets - although that has been the case for a while.

230 from 84 balls? Doddle. laughing

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:52 pm

7 down! With only Rashid, Plunkett and Wood, alongside Ali, surely that's it?

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:52 pm

And Willey flashes and edges behind. England 276 for 7. Are Scotland looking at an epic win here? Surely not?
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:53 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Are Scotland looking at an epic win here? Surely not?

If they do, it will truly show up the ICC and their folly in limiting the next World Cup to a mere ten teams.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:56 pm

Always thought that was wrong. You don't try to expand a sport around the world to more countries by lessening the teams in the premier competition.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:03 pm

Been well noted pretty much everywhere how stupid the format for the next World Cup is - today proves it
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:04 pm

Duty281 wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:270/6. Don't reckon England would have been able to get to 500 from here, Duty. Smile

All about the wickets - although that has been the case for a while.

230 from 84 balls? Doddle. laughing

Glad to see the old Duty is back with us! Very Happy

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:23 pm

44 from 36. England back to being favourites, perhaps, but one wicket in the next over or two switches it again.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:28 pm

England should win now but Scotland have given them a real good test.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:30 pm

My my, with the target under run-a-ball, Ali takes on the spinner and is caught at long-on.

A twist!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by jimbohammers on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:35 pm

This is beyond embarrassing.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:43 pm

What on earth was that? 11 from 12 and England try an improbable 2.

Rashid run out. Brilliant Scottish fielding.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:46 pm

Oh wow. Scotland have beaten England. Unbelievable.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:47 pm

That's it, Scotland have won! Well bloody done, Scotland. clap clap

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:48 pm

What a day for Scottish cricket. They have beaten the world No 1 side to give them what must be their greatest win ever.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:53 pm

Totally deserved victory for Scotland.

Btw, lovely ground and looked perfectly maintained - like festival cricket at its best.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 6:58 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Totally deserved victory for Scotland.

Btw, lovely ground and looked perfectly maintained - like festival cricket at its best.

Agreed. The Grange is about 15 minute walk from my house.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 7:07 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Totally deserved victory for Scotland.

Btw, lovely ground and looked perfectly maintained - like festival cricket at its best.

Agreed. The Grange is about 15 minute walk from my house.

Craig - do you walk or go On The Buses? Wink See what I did there!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 7:09 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Totally deserved victory for Scotland.

Btw, lovely ground and looked perfectly maintained - like festival cricket at its best.

Agreed. The Grange is about 15 minute walk from my house.

Craig - do you walk or go On The Buses? Wink See what I did there!

laughing I do both.
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 7:51 pm

Congrats to Scotland - thoroughly deserved and once again shows up the ridiculous 10 team World Cup decision - albeit everyone and their dog have said this and the ICC just continue ears to the ground!

England wise - think we may be seeing the final embers of the ODI careers of messers Wiley and Billings. Curran x2 and Foakes surely worth a go ahead of these two now
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by KP_fan on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 8:02 pm

Watched the Highlights on channel-5
The down the ground boundaries seemed 55 meters and square ones probably 45m Shocked
And so a length ball hit that would be caught 3/4th way on a "Normal" ground , would sail for a SIX here
And the pitch was absolute flat-Patta
And so when you reduce the difficulty level of sport so significantly...the differentiation between a strong and mediocre team also vanishes....and game turns into a lottery

Full credit to Scotland for doing their part as good as one possibly can in the lottery
And regardless of the ease of pitch and short boundaries...Eng from their perspective should not excuse themselves for conceding 370odd to a minnow side....their coming within 6 runs of that total notwithstanding
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 7:55 am

That's pretty much what people said about T20 KP but yes the small ground undoubtedly increased the chances of Scotland pulling this off.
I also agree with an earlier comment regarding England batting first ...if they had and come out with their usual positive intent they would've set a score at least as high as Scotlands ( 500 is pushing it a bit though!) and I don't feel Scotland would've done as well with the pressure of a chase as they did with setting a score.

England's selections I already mentioned annoyed for this game. Why keep picking proven failures?
The obsession with Billings is weird. It's not even like he's a good keeper. Willey I kind of understand they desperately want a left armer but seriously how many chances, he's not done it with the ball and hasn't lived up to potential with the bat. And Wood.... despite usually getting a mix of new ball and bowling at the tail he still averages one wicket an ODI as a strike bowler, he just isn't good enough.
I know these guys were in as reserves /rotation but why not some of the younger up coming players? We know these guys aren't good enough. Of course there might be an argument that the quality of play in the RLC is stronger so they would've got more from playing in that but Scotlands win kind of mocks that.

That aside it's an incredible win for Scotland and the history book won't record the details. They played the game of their lives and for a team that's made up of some pretty ordinary cricketers came out and delivered their best. If it were Pakistan on the end of this beating we'd all be checking the odds on paddy power and wondering...but this is England, always capable of swinging from high to low.

Possibly the most worrying is they have relied heavily on holding their nerve and trusting the tail ( which even with the second string was ridiculously strong) and almost always come out on top during their rise up the rankings... this time they didn't. Has the golden touch gone?

Small positives . A couple of players who haven't looked their best this summer came out ok. Moeen and Rashid..both having not played much since the last series.... on a ground that could have been very problematic for spinners came back and performed OK, Moeen seems to at least have held his nerve which is encouraging.
England's batting still looks formidable even in failing the chase.

The Aus series is going to be huge. With Stokes likely to miss at least the first game theres some big choices and opportunities for the younger seam bowlers to shine. Bowling is England's weak spot, and there's a question as to whether they should persist with picking fast bowlers with an eye to the world cup or pick medium pacers like Curran who can take best advantage of home conditions.
If Willey, Billings or Wood play I'm resigning as an England fan though.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by jimbohammers on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 10:15 am

I thought the Billings selection was a strange one as he's been in woeful form for Kent and in the IPL. He's got talent, but seems to get one special knock, followed by 10 poor ones.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 12:08 pm

jimbohammers wrote:I thought the Billings selection was a strange one as he's been in woeful form for Kent and in the IPL. He's got talent, but seems to get one special knock, followed by 10 poor ones.

Luke Wright all over again.

Its not even like England dont already have two keepers in the first XI

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 12:23 pm

Curran should have played, Willey isn’t worth persevering with as a back up option. Discussed Foakes over Billings with Olly. 

Think the changes after the World Cup are gonna be huge

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 12:36 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Curran should have played, Willey isn’t worth persevering with as a back up option. Discussed Foakes over Billings with Olly. 

Think the changes after the World Cup are gonna be huge

As things currently stand (although we are still on shifting sands), the ECB's 100 franchise tournament from the year 2020 will clash with the counties' 50 overs games. If that happens, it's hard to see there being much emphasis and concentration in England on 50 over cricket. All the more odd as the ECB have given such a priority to our winning the 2019 World Cup.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 1:47 pm

I think that Plunkett has been getting an easy ride - perhaps due to his late order runs? His bowling since returning from IPL has been poor and at the weekend was brainless.

I do not believe Willey has enough about his bowling to be in the ODI side, though he was better than the other two seamers on this occasion. Less said about Billings the better really. I can see why they do not want to give Bairstow the gloves whilst also opening, but Billings has struggled to show he is persevering with.

Assuming fitness, what would be people's first choice team?



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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 1:59 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I think that Plunkett has been getting an easy ride - perhaps due to his late order runs? His bowling since returning from IPL has been poor and at the weekend was brainless.

I do not believe Willey has enough about his bowling to be in the ODI side, though he was better than the other two seamers on this occasion. Less said about Billings the better really. I can see why they do not want to give Bairstow the gloves whilst also opening, but Billings has struggled to show he is persevering with.

Assuming fitness, what would be people's first choice team?


There's some really tough calls, so I've done one if you want the extra batter, and one if the extra bowler is preferred

Extra batsman;

Roy
Bairstow
Hales
Root
Morgan
Buttler
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Plunkett

Extra bowler;

Roy
Bairstow
Root
Morgan
Buttler
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Plunkett
Wood

I would personally like to see extra batsman, as I think Root can get through a couple of overs if needed per innings. For me, Hales is the expendable batsman, and Wood is the expendable bowler, depending on which way they go...I would maybe go Curran over Wood if they wanted a death overs specialist type bowler, but I think they fancy Stokes and Woakes for that job already
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 2:21 pm

I agree with your core 10 Olly. For me I would rather have the extra bowler - especially with Stokes injury record.

What has happened to Chris Jordan?

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 2:49 pm

Jordan seems to have fallen behind Archer at Sussex, and has barely played in the IPL or county season so far.

In test prospect related news, Hameed continues to struggle in the first class game with scores of 5 and 4 in this round of matches against Essex. Maybe a loan to division two side may assist him to gain some confidence again?
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 5:32 pm

I'd have Curran over Wood who's pretty useless in ODIs.
Plunkett may not have enough bowled much better in the last game bit his overall record in ODIs is far better than Wood and Willey so there was actually some justification for him being picked...that plus his batting is why he gets a pass from me on the Scotland game and would be in an England 11 .

I'd also rather see a variety of bowlers and plenty of full time options rather than the extra bat....even if that means dropping a guy as talented as hales or Roy (probably hales based on this season so far) .
Englands top 6 us as good as anyone's...and they have a lot of batting in their tail. Making scores generally hasn't been their issue....taking wickets has.

Try and get a left armer ( not willey), someone with a bit of pace ( plunkett), spinners who move it both ways ( Rashid and moeen) plus the usual cast of right arm fast mediums.
Stokes, Woakes, Moeen, Rashid plunkett curran for me gives the options of full time bowling to keep challenging batsmen whilst also having a ridiculous depth to their own batting g to give the top 6 the license to play.

Without Stokes though ....I do think the extra bat has to play and they "make do" with 5 full timers.

It's a nice choice to have though.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 9:48 am

Stokes is definately out and sounds like Woakes is too.
That makes the decision regarding Hales a lot easier, its almost certain to be 5 bats plus Buttler and 5 bowlers.
It also means bowling remains a weakness for England regardles of whos picked. Cricinfo are suggesting Buttler in for Billings (obviously) then Willey dropping out for Curran or Ball.
Personally Id have rid of Wood too whos ODI record is even worse than his test one and couldnt even muster speeds in the high 80s against Scotland. With only 5 bowlers theres little opportunity to hide anyone, but its also a good chance for whoever does get the nod to stand up.
Dropping Willey would still leave England with bags of batting even in the absence of Stokes and Woakes.

Australia of course have their own issues. No Warner or Smith. An ancient wicketkeeper Captain. And all 3 senior fast bowlers injured. Mitchel Marsh is also out. Maxwells been in rank form.
On the flip side its a great chance for them to mix in some new faces along with old timer.
They still have a proper fast strike bowler in Stanlake (did he not have an English granny? Why do we never poach 90mph bowlers?) and Richardson is apparently the player everyone hoped Wood would be, Tyes a great limited overs bowler and Stoinis could do well on English pitches. If Maxwell plays as an all rounder l then they can pack a deep batting line up too....but hes not been bowling in the warm ups and Agars been in at 7 (despite an ODI average of 7 and T20 average of 5.5 with the bat!) .
Shorts not done much in the warm ups but his T20 record shows hes an incredibly dangerous batsman (averages 49 at a strike rate a shade under 150!). Neser looks like a bit of a nothing all rounder and bench warmer.

To me it looks like England should be favourites, but their lack of real wicket taking bowlers and missing a couple of key guys coupled with the hangover of defeat by Scotland must give Aus a glimmer. Englands batting is unquestionably stronger, Australias frontline bowling stronger but potentially reliant on some part timers.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Jetty on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 10:47 am

I don't think England are worried about their bowlers stats as they bat down to 11.

Stokes 38.01 econ 6.06
Willey 38.11 econ 5.70
Ball 45.28 econ 6.22
Wood 46.50 econ 5.51

Why would you call up Ball, rather than Finn 29.37 econ 5.06, Topley 25.62 econ 5.31?

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 12:57 pm

Stokes won't be playing

Finns stats are based on performances years ago

Is Topley even alive?

I assume Ball was being looked at because he's been playing well this season.

Anyway they've persisted with Willey much to the annoyance of the internet.

Australia have Agar in at 7 which sums up the contrast in the lower order batting between the two teams.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 1:09 pm

.. and of course the much maligned Willey strikes straight away

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:11 pm

Australia in all sorts of trouble here, 70-4 off 16.1 overs - three for Moeen already, ball isn't even really turning much either!

Maxwell and Stoinis at the crease now - could be a very entertaining half hour or so!
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:27 pm

Five out now...this could be an early finish.

English spinners having a good day. Bit of help from some pretty dim batting. Maxwell needs to fire if Australia are to put any sort of target on the board.

Obviously they are no Scotland Smile

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:32 pm

Hi folks - Spin well on top but our twins running out of overs. I wouldn't be surprised to see Root send a few down today.

And here he is!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:44 pm

Makes sense to deploy Root , given the way the main spinners have strangled the scoring.

Moeen getting hit around in this his last over : Maxwell moving into gear ! Spoilt his figures a bit but 3/43 ain't bad...


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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:46 pm

Runs from Maxwell in Moeen's final over although I feel he and Agar need to bat through now to the 40th over without worrying too much about the score. Then go for the blitz. That could still see them top 300.

Counter punching - as Hussain calls it - too soon is more likely imo to lead a wicket and the rapid collapse of an ordinary looking tail.

PS A delight to hear Sanga on comms.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:47 pm

Think we might see Plunkett now as Maxwell seems to have the spinners' measure...

Indeed he is on. Hopefully better than the other day !

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:51 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Runs from Maxwell in Moeen's final over although I feel he and Agar need to bat through now to the 40th over without worrying too much about the score. Then go for the blitz. That could still see them top 300.

Counter punching - as Hussain calls it - too soon is more likely imo to lead a wicket and the rapid collapse of an ordinary looking tail.

PS A delight to hear Sanga on comms.

Excellent comms line up today - Sanga, Ponting, Broad, Hussain, Ward, Guha, Atherton - bar Ward for Key, probably the best line up Sky could put out!
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:51 pm

I hear what you're saying , guildford...but I don't think Maxwell plays like that.
If England refrain from getting a panic attack in the face of the Maxwell onslaught I fancy they will indeed get a break...but we could be in for a lively passage of play !

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 3:02 pm

alfie wrote:I hear what you're saying , guildford...but I don't think Maxwell plays like that.  
If England refrain from getting a panic attack in the face of the Maxwell onslaught I fancy they will indeed get a break...but we could be in for a lively passage of play !

Hi Alfie - no, he doesn't! Very Happy I accept that.

I'm perhaps old school - hang on, I'll correct that - As l'm old school, I just feel it's an absolute sin not to use up all your overs and that going gungho too soon with 5 down greatly increases the chances of that happening.

Agar at least following my unwritten instruction - ''Stay with Maxie!''.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 3:19 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Runs from Maxwell in Moeen's final over although I feel he and Agar need to bat through now to the 40th over without worrying too much about the score. Then go for the blitz. That could still see them top 300.

Counter punching - as Hussain calls it - too soon is more likely imo to lead a wicket and the rapid collapse of an ordinary looking tail.

PS A delight to hear Sanga on comms.

Excellent comms line up today - Sanga, Ponting, Broad, Hussain, Ward, Guha, Atherton - bar Ward for Key, probably the best line up Sky could put out!

Yep, the comms line up is good today although an old git like me could do without the girly representation and would prefer some from the old school like Lloyd and Holding. Smile

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 3:25 pm

Plunkett cuts short the Maxwell innings ...good catch Bairstow.

Handy innings from the Aussie showman but 62 not really enough in this situation : that tail is now exposed...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 3:28 pm

Maxwell gone. 174/6 off 36.5. Hmmm. As I was suggesting earlier, 170/5 off 40 would have been better for Australia. I do though again accept Alfie's observation that you ain't gonna get that from Maxwell!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

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