England summer thread - 2018

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England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 May 2018, 12:02 am

First topic message reminder :

First test squad is announced next week, and the rumour is Nick Gubbins will be selected to open, and this would be the prospective team...

Cook
Gubbins
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Leach
Anderson

With James Vince as 12th man

What do we reckon?
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Thu 21 Jun 2018, 3:36 pm

In reply to Olly ...

Bit of overkill with the batting though , isn't it ?  Root could bowl a number of overs (as he's just done today !) but I'd normally be a little concerned about Stokes always having to bowl a full set of ten and no backup pace option.

As to this game : Finch has got going now (heaven knows why the Aussies were messing around batting him in the middle order ! He is a whiteball opener any day of the week) so they could yet turn this into a challenging total.  England generally think they can chase anything ; but sometimes they stumble . And Lyon might grab a wicket or two.

Going to be too late for me with work tomorrow but those of you watching might see a contest tonight...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 21 Jun 2018, 4:10 pm

From the Hales interview he expects to be dropped or at least be competing with Roy when stokes is back.

I guess the use of root here signals they may be looking at the ludicrous batting depth optoin instead though.

Frankly the only 3 seamers England have performing to a level worth picking are Woakes stokes and plunkett .....so I can see the argument for not bothering with a 4th if they are just going to be rubbish.

As it is aus have an excellnt platform and a chance to push on to the low 300s or 350 if they really get into it
You'd fancy this Englandteam to knock off anything sub 350....but at least aus are giving their bowled a chance.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Thu 21 Jun 2018, 5:23 pm

'Only' 310 by Australia, after looking likely to post a 350 score.

The top three posted 100, 63 and 101. Of the following seven, only one (Agar: 19) got into double figures. Difficult to see England not chasing this down.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Thu 21 Jun 2018, 6:49 pm

103/0 after 14. Coasting.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 21 Jun 2018, 8:53 pm

Only 79 for Bairstow today, he is rubbish after all.

Not quite coasting with wickets falling regulalry but the top 3 has done enough to make it a pretty sure thing.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 21 Jun 2018, 9:08 pm

Having said that Butters gone mad and made it look very comfortable toward the end.

310 is butter to this team now. It's difficult to reconcile just how rapidly they've revolutionised the batting approach and quality.

Best figures for Willey in a long time..and fair play wood in the wickets two. But again they were utterly ineffective with the new ball and got most of the wickets in the closing spells as Australia's ridiculously long tail tried to hit out.

Have to give credit to Root and the decision to bowl him too. Very economical and forced Australia into slowing when they would've wanted to accelerate after a solid opening stand. Perhaps taking advantage of knowing Australia's lack of batting depth meant they would be risk averse and not try to slog him.

It does open up the possibility of a 5 bowler attack even when Stokes returns and retaining Roy Bairstow Hales Root as a truly terrifying top 4.
Morgans blessed to have the captaincy ....despite hardly being shabby he's the one who otherwise should make way.

Nice problem for the selectors. Horrid one for India.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Thu 21 Jun 2018, 9:26 pm

4 zip. The 11/4 on England to win the World Cup next year can be used as a high-interest savings account.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Thu 21 Jun 2018, 9:48 pm

Aussies took another hammering today. England's strong ODI batting line up has run into a purple patch, no doubt aided by the opposition's - at very best - mediocre bowling line up.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 5:56 am

Duty281 wrote:4 zip. The 11/4 on England to win the World Cup next year can be used as a high-interest savings account.

Probably best not to get too carried away.

This Australian team is basically a - pretty poor - second choice outfit. There will be better opposition next year from several sides ... and it is still a year away. A lot can happen in a year.

And even assuming England are still in peak form next year there is still the little matter of winning the knockout games . A bad day against someone like ...oh , Pakistan ?...or Scotland Smile could upset the applecart...

They are likely to start favourites. But no guarantees.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by LivinginItaly on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 7:24 am

For me one of the big dangers with England's current excellent run of form, apart from the Scotland game, is that one or two of England's weaker positions could go relatively unchallenged. I am of course refering to Willey and Wood, who seem pretty ineffective with both the new ball and the old ball, notwithstanding Willey's wickets in the last game as Australia rather capitulated. Of course, one could point out that with the return of Stokes and Woakes potentially there won't be a problem. However, given the later pairs susceptibility to picking up injuries, I would feel more comfortable with a last minute replacement in an important world cup game being better than just Willey because he is a lefty or Wood because he is supposedly? faster than the rest.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 7:35 am

Agreed England have to be favourites, but let's see how India fare before putting the 11/4 down
Agree that the opposition has been pretty awful and we still managed lose to Scotland ....so there's always a chance in any knock out game of stuffing it up.
Agreed that there's still an issue with the depth in the bowling. The new boy getting mauled hasn't helped answer those questions.
The only thing they are missing really is an genuinely quick strike bowler and cover for bowler injuries. The batting might well be good enough to cover for that anyway

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 8:52 am

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:4 zip. The 11/4 on England to win the World Cup next year can be used as a high-interest savings account.

Probably best not to get too carried away.

This Australian team is basically a - pretty poor - second choice outfit.  There will be better opposition next year from several sides ... and it is still a year away. A lot can happen in a year.

And even assuming England are still in peak form next year there is still the little matter of winning the knockout games .  A bad day against someone like  ...oh , Pakistan ?...or Scotland Smile  could upset the applecart...

They are likely to start favourites.  But no guarantees.

Whilst true Alfie, it should be pointed out England also thoroughly defeated the first choice Aussie ODI side in their own backyard over the winter, before "sandpaper gate". Obviously as we saw in the Champions Trophy, in a one off knockout game anything can happen, but they *should* really be winning it all next summer...which seems weird to say about an England one day side!
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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by dummy_half on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 9:52 am

can only really think of one equivalent in English sport, and that is the England rugby team in the couple of years up to the 2003 RWC - 2000 and 2001 clearly a great team but prone to throwing the odd poor performance in (usually in Dublin...), 2002 to early 2003 absolutely dominant and then arguably past their best by the RWC but with the winning habit so ingrained it mattered little.

Yes, this Aussie team is at most 50% the ideal first choice (Finch, Head, Maxwell, Paine, Agar?, Marsh?), but you can only beat what's in front of you, and England have well and truly done that. Also, as others have noted, they did pretty much the same to the much stronger Aus line up in Aus last winter.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 9:58 am

India surely will be bringing their strongest squad, and will be fully switched on as their main chance to prepare in English conditions ahead of 2019.
They are surely the number one challenge for England now ( I'm saying that to annoy the south Africans) so it really will be the acid test if just how good a side England are, especially with Woakes and Stokes returning.
It'll also be interesting to see if they remain tied to Wood

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 11:22 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:4 zip. The 11/4 on England to win the World Cup next year can be used as a high-interest savings account.

Probably best not to get too carried away.

This Australian team is basically a - pretty poor - second choice outfit.  There will be better opposition next year from several sides ... and it is still a year away. A lot can happen in a year.

And even assuming England are still in peak form next year there is still the little matter of winning the knockout games .  A bad day against someone like  ...oh , Pakistan ?...or Scotland Smile  could upset the applecart...

They are likely to start favourites.  But no guarantees.

Whilst true Alfie, it should be pointed out England also thoroughly defeated the first choice Aussie ODI side in their own backyard over the winter, before "sandpaper gate". Obviously as we saw in the Champions Trophy, in a one off knockout game anything can happen, but they *should* really be winning it all next summer...which seems weird to say about an England one day side!

Yeah you are probably right , Olly...I guess I am just reluctant to hex them . Dummy's RWC 2003 analogy is a good one , I think. So even if they have peaked a little early it may not matter. I'm not a betting man anyway ...but I am certainly looking forward to the event with rather more confidence than in recent years !

Just keeping fingers crossed Fingers Crossed

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 12:56 pm

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:4 zip. The 11/4 on England to win the World Cup next year can be used as a high-interest savings account.

Probably best not to get too carried away.

This Australian team is basically a - pretty poor - second choice outfit.  There will be better opposition next year from several sides ... and it is still a year away. A lot can happen in a year.

And even assuming England are still in peak form next year there is still the little matter of winning the knockout games .  A bad day against someone like  ...oh , Pakistan ?...or Scotland Smile  could upset the applecart...

They are likely to start favourites.  But no guarantees.

Yes, absolutely, no guarantees. But 11/4 is an outrageously generous price - if I were a bookmaker, I would be pricing England up in the 11/10 or evens range. They have home advantage, a 'fear factor' and the best ODI line-up in the world at the moment. Excluding the Champions Trophy, England have won ten of their last eleven ODI series (a 2-1 defeat in India the only blot) or, if you prefer, seven from the last seven.

Blips do happen in isolated ODI matches (one reason why I don't particularly like the World Cup format), but generally speaking the best ODI sides do triumph in World Cups (hence Australia's dominance from 1999-2007). England will have to ensure that no blips occur - and if they do make sure they happen in the elongated group phase, not the two knockout games!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by jimbohammers on Fri 22 Jun 2018, 9:31 pm

England Lions comfortably beat India A today. Impressive win, with 8 overs to spare. 100 for Gubbins and 4-30 for Dawson. OK

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 23 Jun 2018, 1:49 pm

Hopefully not a significant issue for England given Bess' performances against Pakistan but just to mention that Leach was clobbered on the grill by a Morkel* delivery whilst batting for Somerset against Surrey on Thursday evening. Although Leach continued batting then, he was soon dismissed and didn't appear yesterday, his place in Somerset's second dig following on being taken by substitute Waller under a new rule allowing subs to fully participate in a game if they're replacing a concussed player.

Under these rules governing concussion injuries, Leach is not allowed to play in Somerset's CC match next week. I think that then allows him only one other CC match before the first Test against India. As the Surrey match marked his return to action following a broken thumb, he will have had precious little CC game time before then. As I say, it shouldn't be an issue as long as Bess is available. However, if he (Bess) were to get crocked the cat would be amongst the pigeons with Goose probably getting ready once more to slate Moeen. Wink

* My word, Morkel is a towering figure in every sense and gets so much bounce out a track. His ball apparently broke Leach's glasses.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat 23 Jun 2018, 11:55 pm

guildfordbat wrote:However, if he (Bess) were to get crocked the cat would be amongst the pigeons with Goose probably getting ready once more to slate Moeen. Wink

Maybe Eddie Hemmings or Norman Gifford should be put on standby. Wink

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:06 am

Debut today for Sam Curran.

Right call to give him the new ball. Keep it low and whip it in, Sam!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:08 am

Pretty awful opening over from the young Surrey man.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by JDizzle on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:15 am

Craig Overton out of this side and the Lions squad with a side strain. The Worcestershire Woakes called up to replace him in the Lions squad - about time!

This pitch looks like another flat one too, so Aus can’t be happy with just over 300 again.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:15 am

Typical...they drop the guys I've been slating and the replacements are worse.

I guess Aus will just gun for this, nothing to lose and they know they need to set more than 310 to challenge England.
Could easily see a flurry of wickets, and they have so little batting depth it could go horribly wrong quickly

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:20 am

About the team I expected , to be honest. Happy to see them trying young Sam , and Ball , and Plunkett had to come back after resting the other day. Wood and Willey due a rest ; and I don't think Overton set the world on fire Thursday ?
Got to test all the options.

That said , Curran might not want to watch back his first two overs Smile

Aussie openers off to an absolute flier ...Morgan resorting to Root already ! 52 from 5 Shocked

England might be looking at a tough one tonight...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:27 am

Gooseberry wrote:Typical...they drop the guys I've been slating and the replacements are worse.

I guess Aus will just gun for this, nothing to lose and they know they need to set more than 310 to challenge England.
Could easily see a flurry of wickets, and they have so little batting depth it could go horribly wrong quickly

That's why they don't make you a selector , Goose Smile

I'd say the two W's are rested , rather than dropped , anyway.

I do agree this rapid start might all count for little once a couple of wickets fall...The Australian lineup is dodgy after the top three. But this looks like it ought to be a high scoring game so even if they do get 350 it won't guarantee them success.

Moeen strikes ! First domino...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:30 am

Two quick wickets and Australia are in trouble.

I've heard Australia won all five tosses on this tour. Can't be too many teams who have done that, and lost 5-0!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:31 am

...and second ! Stoinis continues his rotten tour as Moeen has two in three...

Was an odd choice to send Stoinis in at three , I thought. Certainly didn't work.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:37 am

One thing I'm liking about this England side (and Morgan's captaincy) is the readiness to adapt.
In the past England limited over teams seem to have been a bit pig headed in sticking to their usual plan: would have been almost unthinkable to bowl two spinners in the first seven overs , even if they were getting hammered.
Worked nicely today ! Won't always , perhaps ; but good to remain flexible in any case.

Will be interesting to see when he brings Curran back. Have to reintroduce him at some point ; and I think he has the resilience to bounce back when he does get his chance.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:49 am

Big wicket as Head hits it tamely to midwicket.

90/3. Doesn't look like England will be too taxed today.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:51 am

Plunkett cuts off Australia's Head !

Timely strike. Head had played really well...and the run rate has been terrific ; but I reckon they'll end up being bowled out today. Will need another big one from Marsh to get a respectable score...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 11:55 am

Sharp stumping by Buttler. 97/4.

Moeen has 3.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 12:02 pm

Really tremendous fielding, but an utterly brainless run.

100/5.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 12:02 pm

So much for another Marsh big one Smile

And now Paine is run out ...top work Buttler clap

Australia sinking fast , despite that rocket start. England might finish this in time to sit down and watch the Panama match Smile

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 12:04 pm

Australia’s ineptitude against spin is comical. Moeen, no more than a pie bowler, was averaging 50 with the ball prior to this series. Somehow he’s got 11 wickets so far in this series. I’m sure Kohli will be delighted to face Moeen later this summer

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by JDizzle on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 12:42 pm

That might be the worst leave I have ever seen. It's not really moved and it's hit middle stump!

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 12:44 pm

Young Sam back with a bang ! Double bang , actually Smile

Bit of assistance from some dreadful Aussie batting , mind : what was Agar thinking ?

Their minds are scrambled...161/7 : run rate heading for seven but wickets nearly all gone. England in total command.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 12:58 pm

Another daft run out sees Australia eight down for 180. England should be batting before the interval...

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 1:02 pm

alfie wrote:One thing I'm liking about this England side (and Morgan's captaincy) is the readiness to adapt.
In the past England limited over teams seem to have been a bit pig headed in sticking to their usual plan: would have been almost unthinkable to bowl two spinners in the first seven overs , even if they were getting hammered.
Worked nicely today ! Won't always , perhaps ; but good to remain flexible in any case.

Will be interesting to see when he brings Curran back. Have to reintroduce him at some point ; and I think he has the resilience to bounce back when he does get his chance.

Hi Alfie - definitely. Both Sam and Tom are resilient individuals.

Football now.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 1:55 pm

Hmm. While we've all been watching England barbecuing Panama , Big Billy Stanlake has removed Root to add to the early wickets of Roy and Bairstow : leaves England 23/3 !.

Might still get 206 (.) but what is going on with this lovely batting wicket ?

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 2:00 pm

Stanlake on fire gets Morgan for a duck

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 2:01 pm

Well England do have the worst top 4 in world cricket as we were just saying goes yesterday right


Jokes aside you'd still fancy them to make it but this always can happen, even to teams who don't bat so aggressively.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 2:02 pm

Oh crumbs. Well that's what all the hype was about then. Looks very dodgy for England now... interesting to see how butter handles it.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by alfie on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 2:04 pm

And now 27/4 with Morgan gone for a duck.

Buttler in early enough today to please any of those who reckon six is too low for him Smile

Lot of work ahead if they're going to get that whitewash !

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 2:23 pm

50/5 Hales gone

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 5:06 pm

Well so far in answer to my earlier question Buttless shown he has the no use and ability to hold back and graft when the game demands it.
He's fast running out of partners but they are still in it with plenty of balls left.


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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Duty281 on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 5:06 pm

Buttler on 88*. England eight down, but only 25 more needed.

Good partnership from Rashid/Buttler.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 5:10 pm

182/8 now ..... most teams would be dead and buried but Rashid can bat. Pity Ball makes Wood look like Bradman ...it's really on these two now.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 5:23 pm

Win or lose, Jos is boss

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by JDizzle on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 5:34 pm

Incredible innings Jos, we are not worthy.

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Re: England summer thread - 2018

Post by eirebilly on Sun 24 Jun 2018, 5:35 pm

One of the best innings' I have ever seen. Take a bow Jos Buttler clap
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