PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

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PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 16 May 2018, 4:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).The Byron Nelson tournament was historically one of the Tour's stronger events, a decent field every year . . . . . until Lord Byron left the scene and those who'd come to pay homage to his lordship stayed away.
But never to the extent that they have this year.
The previous Lord Nelson lost an arm and an eye before finally being shot to death - Lord Byron has lost most of the pros, a huge slap in the face to one of the Tour's strongest sponsors, AT&T.
Wonder if CBS TV will also send its "C" Team?
More on all that later.

2).Webb Simpson! Where did that come from? A wonderful win at The Players, but should it have been that big a surprise?
Simpson's form has steadily been improving for a couple of years, and since finishing T16 at last year's Players has made 24 cuts in 26 events, and this was his 10th Top Ten finish in that time, but the first time he'd really threatened to earn the "W".
And a crummy record at TPC - a T15, a T16 last year, nothing else in the Top 60.
A big surprise to me anyway and another prestigious win after the DeutscheBank and US Open triumphs of years gone by.
Any more success this year and he won't have to text Furyk for a Ryder Cup place. Mixed blessing for the US I should think, but that's a whole other story!

3).We talk on here about a succession of one-Major wonders among US golfers of a certain age, and the TPC leaderboard was full of 'em:
Simpson wins.
Walker T2
Dufner T5
Bradley T7
Thomas T11
Koepka T11
Dustin T17
Kuchar T17 - not that he has a Major but does have a Players.

On any given day . . . . . . .

4).And then there's T.Woods; he pretty much played himself out of the tournament on Friday before exciting media everywhere with brilliant front nines for Rounds 3 & 4 before stumbling through the back nine each day.
The word is that he's anxious to return to his happy hunting ground of Firestone CC for one last time for the WGC Bridgestone, so is willing to adjust his schedule (woo hoo) in an effort to boost his owgr placing, which would need to be in the Top 50. Only Memorial, Shinnecock, TPC Potomac (for "The National" - which I thought was a band from Cinncinati?) and Carnoustie on his agenda so far, so imagine Tournament Directors thru'out the land are wetting themselves in anticipation.

5).What did you make of the plethora of birdies and eagles, not to mention Koepka's albatross?
It seems the players had a sense the course was going to be set up to be receptive and vulnerable to low scoring - summed up by Stenson who said, "It's the easiest I've seen it play. Hopefully, in March it gets back to feeling major-like. Because this was more like any other tour event".
So, March it will be for 2019 and beyond - check out last week's Players thread for robopz's best guess at next year's schedule. Thanks robo  clap  thumbsup

6).As for the Europeans, the Continentals started out like the proverbial house on fire and GB&I struggled. But Friday was largely the other way around and Fleetwood (T7) and Poulter (T11) had good results without threatening anything much better. Rafa & Noren were T17, Rose & Stenson @ T23 have never really got going this year and one wonders at what stage their indifferent form becomes a concern for Bjorn. Good Sergio for 36 holes followed by bad Sergio for the other 36, while Hatton hasn't had a respectable week since leaving Mexico.

7).OK, Back to the "AT&T Byron Nelson.
There's a new venue, "Trinity Forest", an inland "links" according to designers Coore & Crenshaw close to Downtown Dallas, which sounds pretty improbable. And if the course is not baked out, the players most likely will be, with little or no rain in the forecast and temps in the mid-90's (with no trees and no shade). Great. Here's pgatour.com's preview of the lay-out:
https://www.pgatour.com/long-form/2018/05/15/trinity-forest-att-byron-nelson-unique-course.html

A lukewarm prognosis if ever I heard one.

8).This is the weakest full-field event of the year so far.
Top 5 in owgr spoils to the victor:
Riviera (62), Quail Hollow and Phoenix (60), Bay Hill (58) and Torrey Pines & Pebble Beach (both 54).
Bottom 5:
Byron Nelson (34), Valero Texas and Career Builder (40), Hawaii& Houston (48).

The Tour makes a lot, a LOT, out of the charitable contributions generated from its tournaments, but two of the largest contributions are made annually by the AT&T Byron Nelson and Valero Texas Open - and the players don't give a toss.

9).Most of the Pros won't have seen the place before but local lads will have made quite a few trips. Spieth for one - will surely be disappointed if he doesn't win - and Hosssler for another. Good each way chance I should think as he looks for his first win.

10).A few nuggets to close with:
*US Open "Local" Qualifying is well underway - seniors Austin, Bart Bryant & Williamson among those to qualify for "Sectional" so far, sons of pros Lehman, Geiberger and Sindelar too, plus Tour winners Gainey & Trahan.
*First US Open owgr Top 60 exemptions awarded following this week's tournament - there's another cut-off on June 11th.
*Goodbye to two-time Major Champ, Doug Ford.
*What's this all about? Mike Weir playing this week's web.commer - he'd've likely strengthened the field at the Nelson . . . . . .
*First Champions Tour "Major" of the season in Alabama. Don't worry if you blink, they have another "Major" coming up next week!


Last edited by kwinigolfer on Fri 18 May 2018, 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Sat 19 May 2018, 6:26 pm

GPB wrote:I believe bogey free for 72 holes has only been done twice, Trevino in New Orleans (he won) and Charles Howell III in a tournament he did
Trevino and Charles Howell are the only two individuals recorded to have done it... CH3's was in the 2010 Greenbrier.

If there were better records I wouldn't be surprised if maybe Byron Nelson or Jug McFadden didn't do it back in that 1944-46 range. There were a lot of easier substitute courses on the schedule then (and a good number of them were playing with clean and place even in dry conditions) with the players setting scoring records every other month it seemed.

It has been done since though in an official event... by Jonas Blixt and Cam Smith in the Zurich Classic last year... team event.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Be_the_ball on Sat 19 May 2018, 7:06 pm

Tiger went 71 holes without a bogey at the 2002 WGC AmEx Championship around Mount Juliet Kilkenny. Bogeyed the 72nd as an over zealous photographer snapped him on his approach shot, which he then pushed into the rough short right of the green and took 3 to get down from, beating Retief Goosen into 2nd.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 19 May 2018, 7:41 pm

PGA Championship is being played at Bethpage 52 weeks from now

Bethpage weather:


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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 19 May 2018, 7:44 pm

Always wondered if Jug McFadden had a sister named Jugs Run


Trinity Forest playing much harder with a little breeze out there.

Re: Bethpage:
Just like Lucas Glover's US Open, GPB.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 19 May 2018, 8:35 pm

Aaron Wise doing well in his 2nd straight tournament. He was born in South African, but has an American flag next to his name.

Does that make him African-American?

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Sat 19 May 2018, 9:51 pm

GPB wrote:PGA Championship is being played at Bethpage 52 weeks from now

Bethpage weather:

Perfect preparation for The Open.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 19 May 2018, 10:48 pm

Good to know the world is spinning back on its axis:

https://www.golfchannel.com/article/grill-room/photos-poulter-shows-his-new-porsche/



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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 19 May 2018, 10:55 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
I know we've been down this path before, but can't see for the life of me why they're not playing twosomes.

All the pros wanted to watch the Wedding this morning!

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 19 May 2018, 11:16 pm

Trouble is, they missed the Cup Final(s); not that they really missed anything. Priorities, please.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 20 May 2018, 12:17 am

Stanley Cup is played at night! Go Caps!

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 20 May 2018, 1:27 pm

Can't say robo didn't warn us about Aaron Wise, very impressive yesterday. Looks like a cross between Cameron Smith and the early 20's version of Charlie Howell, stretched a bit. That was the Charlie Howell who won the old Michelob tournament in Virginia and told interviewers that he had never had a drink! No idea whether that has changed, hope so, but CHIII coincidentally shot Saturday's best round, pretty much clinching his Top 60 entree into the US Open.

I reckon the jury is out on the Trinity Forest course; CBS brought in Crenshaw to tell the world what a wonderful course it was, but omitted to discuss any naysayers; Kuchar was surprisingly vocal, but most of the top players in the field left their form at home and it would have been interesting to hear from Sergio or Spieth (who's a "charter" member of the TF club).


Much cooler today, and a front nailing Fort Worth at the moment with heavy storms - we'll see to what extent this interferes with today's play - could cause a delay at the very least.

EDIT: Ah ha!
One-hour delay announced. Would not be surprised to see that extended . . . . . . .

Another EDIT: Yup, A further one-hour delay, balls in the air at the curious hour of 11.23 a.m., 5.23 p.m. at Stoneham GC. Fingers crossed of course Fingers Crossed , and I'd guess it could be even later which almost assures a Monday finish.

Next EDIT: A further delay; it's getting to the stage where there could probably be quite a bit of "clean-up" after the worst of the weather moves on. Would definitely say they'll be finishing this on Monday, quite likely at least half the field coming back, even if they start at the latest adjusted tee-time.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 20 May 2018, 6:58 pm

Last group scheduled off at 3.35 p.m. and the Tour thinks they'll squeeze a full 18 holes in, so optimistic they already have John Paramore on a chartered Concorde flight to DFW.
With Dallas sun setting @ 8.23 p.m., they'll need to play a helluva lot quicker than earlier in the week, but hope they do it.

I like watching Matt Jones play; fluent swing and plays quickly, too quick for the cameras a couple of times Saturday. But he's struggling to keep his card and hope he makes the most of this opportunity to do himself a real favour.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 20 May 2018, 10:55 pm

Good Spanish double, with Otaegui winning earlier and now The Mechanic taking home the first Senior Major of the year.

Which reminds one that Sergio seemed to be nursing a hand/wrist injury during Rounds 1 & 2. Along with his recent dreadful "form".

Three Ausssies, three born in SA in this afternoon's top ten.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 21 May 2018, 2:39 am

Wow, Can't believe they got that in.
Would think that robo is right: A Star Is Born, Wise outplayed the field.

Not sure why the Tour is happy with guys taking 5 3/4 hours in Rounds 1 & 2 when they've proved perfectly well that, even under the gun, they can get round in 4 3/4 hrs. Even Kevin Na got a move on.

Looks like Charlie Howell & Peter Uihlein played their way into the US Open, but Adam Scott missed out by a fraction. He gets to go again next week, final Top 60 cut-off is June 11th.

As for Matt Jones, I saw at least 4 x 3-putts, lost almost four strokes to the field on the greens. Hope he gets his confidence back soon.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by I'm never wrong on Mon 21 May 2018, 9:26 am

Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but HERE is an article by John Huggan (Golf Digest) re Geoff Ogilvy and a turning point in his career.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by wiretapper on Mon 21 May 2018, 9:39 am

Yeah fair play for getting it done clap When I went to bed they were only at the turn and I did not think they were going to make it.

Also well done to Aaron Wise clap am I right in thinking he's the first rookie to win this year?

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Mon 21 May 2018, 12:37 pm

wiretapper wrote:Yeah fair play for getting it done clap When I went to bed they were only at the turn and I did not think they were going to make it.

Also well done to Aaron Wise clap am I right in thinking he's the first rookie to win this year?

Yeah... they can go fast when motivated, can't they.... Players knowing lines after a few trips around the track, little wind and the easy Sunday set up certainly aided pace of play though.

Wise is the 3rd Rookie winner of the year... Austin Cook and Satoshi Kodaira the others...

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 21 May 2018, 1:49 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but HERE is an article by John Huggan (Golf Digest) re Geoff Ogilvy and a turning point in his career.


Inw,
Thanks for the Geoff Ogilvy piece from John Huggan. (As a US resident with an American wife, I imagine his move might encounter a difficulty or two, hopefully not.)
One thing Geoff didn't mention is golf commentary - have never heard him doing that, but the US Network teams are getting old and stale, and seem unwilling to promote guys at the Golf Channel (Matt Gogol for instance, who seems to work hard and is very good) who don't have "big" names.
I haven't done the arithmetic but the NBC & CBS teams must have an average age in the 60's, and they're not improving with age - some very good, but not getting any younger. Feherty, for instance, seems lazy and repetitious, we've heard it all before.


And, as I like Ogilvy so much(!), here's the My Shot link from your article. Very interesting:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/my-shot-geoff-ogilvy

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Mon 21 May 2018, 2:07 pm

Don't know much about Ogilvy's American wife... But I think there's a lot to that old saying "happy wife equals happy life". If she and the kids take to it, then no reason it can't work. But if she doesn't, there's every reason why it can't.

Personally, any podcasts that has Geoff on it is a must-listen in my opinion. I appreciate his usually well-thought-out take on most everything. And I get the sense that if he really pursued an on-air position with the major networks in the US, he could secure one.

But I also sense there is some typical midlife crisis in all of this. That's not intended in any way as a slight, just a natural occurrence when anyone's facing a personal/career crossroads. I think whatever he's zeroes in on and puts his full attention to, he'll be tremendously successful. But as he's alluded to himself in some of his podcasts in the past... He's almost A.D.D. in anything keeping his attention for long. In any regard, I certainly wish that guy the best...


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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 21 May 2018, 6:32 pm

Ogilvy's wife is Judy Rankin's daughter-in-law isn't she?

Talking of which, robo, I see one of your distinguished WGHOF neighbors(?) died today.


Interesting insight on Quail Hollow, they seem to have an on-again, off-again relationship with the Tour. Wouldn't doubt that event will thrive though, wherever in the Carolinas it's venue might be; Eagle Point seemed quite popular for starters.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Mon 21 May 2018, 6:48 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Talking of which, robo, I see one of your distinguished WGHOF neighbors(?) died today.
 Thank you for noting Carol Mann. I was shocked when I heard it...

I actually knew Carol pretty well and had the opportunity to play a decent amount of golf with her and Duke Butler back in the day. I don't know the circumstances of her passing.  If she was sick,  I didn't know it, but I hadn't seen her in a year or so.  But we had occasion to exchange emails a while back on matter RE the Houston Open... and if she was having issues, she didn't say anything to me.  GREAT lady... and unfortunately... oft misunderstood for her outspoken ways...

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 21 May 2018, 7:17 pm

The only LPGA player I had any sort of conversation with was Muffin S-D who had the misfortune to sit next to me on a transcon flight. She was stuck! But utterly charming and interesting. Moira Dunn was at the same club as us, another with a great down-to-earth reputation, tho' never knew her well.
LPGA's fortune seems to have dipped so much. Politically incorrect to suggest why, but there's nothing like the appeal of 20/30/40 years ago.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 21 May 2018, 7:54 pm

Not sure how Ogilvy's wife can be Rankin's daughter-in-law.

Perhaps ex-daughter-in-law??

Here is a Golf Digest article on Carol Mann from 2006. Some interesting anecdotes in there, especially about the 1974 US Womens Open

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/myshot_gd0610

In 1968, Mann (10), Kathy Whitworth (10) and Mickey Wright (4) won 24 of the 32 LPGA events. Judy Rankin won her first tournament that year.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Eyetoldyouso on Tue 22 May 2018, 11:28 am

Kwini

And, as I like Ogilvy so much(!), here's the My Shot link from your article. Very interesting:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/my-shot-geoff-ogilvy

Great article, thanks for the link.

My question - who is Geoff Ogilvy talking about with the really bad pitching yips?

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Tue 22 May 2018, 11:31 am

I see talk of a Global Tour has sprung again, an article on BBC Sport, Reuters running a high-secrecy style piece, and various journos gossiping on twitter. Not sure why it’s any more likely now than the previous 25 years of the idea being touted.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Tue 22 May 2018, 11:43 am

NedB-H wrote:I see talk of a Global Tour has sprung again, an article on BBC Sport, Reuters running a high-secrecy style piece, and various journos gossiping on twitter. Not sure why it’s any more likely now than the previous 25 years of the idea being touted.
With the up-and-coming of the Asian markets plus, to a lesser extent, the increasing amount of ET double dippers I think a world tour is more feasible / relevant than 25 years ago.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 22 May 2018, 1:32 pm

Eye,
Really bad pitching yips? I know Graham DeLaet has had awful chipping yips, could be him (he's fantastic to watch hitting long irons, the ball just fizzes). And Martin Kaymer has his moments but perhaps a more distinguished player than Ogilvy suggests.

Any other ideas?

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Tue 22 May 2018, 2:03 pm

Iain Carter reporting that Justin Rose is in FortWorth not WentWorth this week as he’s being “forced” to meet his PGA Tour criterion of playing an event he hasn’t been to for at least four years. Seemed odd to me that of all the double dippers Justin would be the only one who couldn’t find a better week to meet that requirement. So I looked into his playing schedule this season and the past few years.

His first PGA tournament this year was the WGC Champions, before which he hadn’t played anywhere since the Tour Championship. Wouldn’t have been any point going to the Safeway Open as he played it in 2015, but he’s never played either the Malaysia or South Korea events (nor sure if these would have counted as newer limited field events, maybe robo of GPB know more).

Vegas, Mayakoba and the RSM would all have worked but he was busy with a Euro schedule those weeks. No point playing Hawaii as he was there last year, but I’m not sure if the ToC would have counted had he taken up his spot there?

He then only played once in the States before the Mexico WGC, but the only tournaments he’d not been to recently were the Career Builder, which clashed with Abu Dhabi, and Phoenix - no idea why he didn’t play that. Doesn’t like the crowds maybe.

Since the Masters he’s only been sighted at New Orleans and Zurich, but could have played Harbour Town, Valero or last week if he’d wanted to show up at Wentworth.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by wiretapper on Tue 22 May 2018, 2:16 pm

I heard him being interviewed on the same thing Ned and he mentioned that he wanted to play the Scottish before the Open which ruled out the John Deere and that the Wyndham would mean potentially 5 tournaments in a row ruling that out. Both of which I understand.

He is a Zurich ambassador so is always going to play that so Harbour Town would have put him on a 6 week consecutive run so again understandable.

However although it does sound like I am defending him I do think he could have planned it better as I think Wentworth should be a must for all prospective European Ryder Cuppers

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 22 May 2018, 2:23 pm

He could also play Hartford - hasn't been there since 2013 and just a hop, skip and a ferry ride from Shinnecock.

Tony Johnstone's twitter feed in full Simon Hobdayism mode today; I wonder if the PGA Tour has had a character like him, at least in the past 30 years - great to see him successful on the Senior Tour.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 22 May 2018, 3:23 pm

Not a great day here in the North Country so, inspired by Tony Johnstone, went googling in search of more Hobday stories. Here's a nice remembrance:

https://www.iol.co.za/sport/golf/simon-hobday-was-one-of-golfs-greatest-characters-8051318

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Tue 22 May 2018, 7:39 pm

I’d missed that the first qualifier for the US Open took place in Japan yesterday. Wenchong Liang, Shota Akiyoshi (don’t know him) and David Bransdon (been around for ever) will be there. Fujita, Tanihara, Ishikawa and Ikeda among those missing out.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Tue 22 May 2018, 8:34 pm

South Korea does not count as a new event for any player this year. I think it does count as a new event if they play it next year.

Rose using the "New Event" requirement as an excuse to not play BMW is complete B-S. He could have played Nelson, or Hilton Head, or Texas and that would have fulfilled his new event obligation.

IMO, any talk of a World Tour is DOA. PGATour players would basically have to QUIT the PGATour to play a World Tour.

American golfers like DJ, JT and Spieth can only get three releases to play in non-PGATour events. There is no way these American players are going to quit the PGATour with 7-9 Million purses to play something speculative.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Tue 22 May 2018, 10:51 pm

The World Tour would never happen without the PGAT being heavily involved or approve of it. So the release issue would not be a topic.
If I was the PGAT I’d try to expand my market by ‘merging’ with the 5-6 biggest Euro and 5-6 biggest AustralAsian events. I would then keep the leftovers of the old PGAT as an elevated/enhanced web.com /feeder Tour.
In other words we are talking about an expansion of the WGC concept.
Only joker in all this could be whether the ET would buy in on it.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Tue 22 May 2018, 11:00 pm

Absolutely agree GPB that any world tour but be 100% dependent on PGA Tour backing. They are the big players in this market, no one has the clout to take them on and win even though plenty have tried: Greg Norman 20 years ago, OneAsia five years ago, O’Grady and Chubby Chandler ten years ago (no surprise that Chandler’s name is floating around this latest news).

I also think it’s less likely to happen now because the main players have expanded their operations. The PGA Tour has Asian events, the Web.com and also the China/Canada/Latin America circuits under its umbrella. The ET has now incorporated its own third tier schedules so is basically running pro golf in Europe and the Middle East, in addition to strong presences in Asia, Australia and Southern Africa. There’s not much new territory left for a world tour to claim now.

Interesting quotes from Eddie Pepperell on the BBC story essentially saying that pro golfers should want to preserve the status quo as multiple tours allows more guys to make a viable living. When you look at earnings of players outside the top 100 on the global tennis circuit he maybe has a point. I wonder if the world tour proponents would be better off pitching to the ladies game, where it seems like every tour is in strife at the moment and in need of some new ideas. Then if they made that work, there’d be precedent when they took the idea to the men.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Tue 22 May 2018, 11:10 pm

Re Eddie Pep: there’s no such thing as ‘pro golfers’. It’s the top golfers who run the show. Plus of course the PGAT. But with more and more top PGAT players being non-americans, it’d be logical to expand further into Europe and Australasia. You can argue that the US players don’t want to travel, but I’d also say that the voice and quality of non-US golfers (especially the Asians) will become increasingly stronger.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 23 May 2018, 12:40 am

Kwini... Check your private messages please...

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 23 May 2018, 1:01 am

GPB wrote:South Korea does not count as a new event for any player this year.  I think it does count as a new event if they play it next year.

Rose using the "New Event" requirement as an excuse to not play BMW is complete B-S.  He could have played  Nelson, or Hilton Head, or Texas and that would have fulfilled his new event obligation.

IMO, any talk of a World Tour is DOA.  PGATour players would basically have to QUIT the PGATour to play a World Tour.  

American golfers like DJ, JT and Spieth can only get three releases to play in non-PGATour events.  There is no way these American players are going to quit the PGATour with 7-9 Million purses to play something speculative.

Correct about the CJ Cup not being eligible in it's first year as a "new event" to meet the requirement... the exact wording of the regulation is as follows. Notice the last line that ANY first year event on the schedule can not be used to fulfill the requirement.

One New Event Played Per Season Requirement
During the current PGA TOUR season, any Regular Member of the PGA
TOUR (as defined in Article IX, Section A.1.a. through e.) is required to play
in at least one tournament he has not played in previously during any of the
preceding four (4) seasons.

Tournaments eligible to fulfill such Regular Member’s obligation under this regulation
shall include all official money, co-sponsored and approved tournaments
but shall not include The Masters Tournament, U.S. Open Championship, The
Open Championship, PGA Championship, THE PLAYERS Championship,
World Golf Championships, the FedExCup Playoff Events, The Presidents Cup,
Ryder Cup, Olympic Games, and any first-year official money event.


If both Minnesota and Detroit are added to the schedule... there may be an allowance made to allow them to be used as new event NEXT year as the season will be ending sooner and there will be less events for a player to select from.

And agree with you... complete BS for Rose to be using this as an excuse. Following the Tour regulations is NOT something players are "forced" to do... it's something they willing AGREE to do as a condition of being granted membership. And like you pointed out... Rose had plenty of other options. This sounds more like poor planning/management of his schedule with "his people" to me...

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 23 May 2018, 1:24 am

NedB-H wrote:Interesting quotes from Eddie Pepperell on the BBC story essentially saying that pro golfers should want to preserve the status quo as multiple tours allows more guys to make a viable living. When you look at earnings of players outside the top 100 on the global tennis circuit he maybe has a point. I wonder if the world tour proponents would be better off pitching to the ladies game, where it seems like every tour is in strife at the moment and in need of some new ideas. Then if they made that work, there’d be precedent when they took the idea to the men.

Eddie nails it again IMO. The benefit of TWO strong full schedule tours is narrowing the gap between the have's and have-not's by providing as many quality playing opportunities as possible to as many players as possible.

If there were a top-tier World Tour of 16+ events siphoning off the worlds best players... any notion that "quality" options would continue on the PGAT or ET for the remaining players is a pipe dream. Right now there are over 50 $6 million+ events on the PGA and ET combined... If there were a world Tour, I doubt a SINGLE one of them not on that world tour would be able to continue at that kind of purse structure for long. NOT enough quality players to fill the remaining fields.

The net effect would be... You "might" have 50-60 "winners"... but you'd probably have 300-350 LOSERS among the exempt players on the PGA/ET. Not gonna happen.

IMO the BEST possible scenario would be a really strong PGA Tour... AND a really strong Euro Tour as well (hoping the ET can continue the progress it's made the last few years)... Then bring the best players together "often enough" like we see in Majors/Players/WGC's now. But if you expand that TOO much in an attempt to make everything extraordinary... the net effect is you risk making it ALL ORDINARY.

In a way that's already happening over here. We're starting to see some field fallout in WGC's now... and the reason is the scheduling of all of them isn't perfect... the venues aren't perfect... and the players have SO many other options. As it stands now.. the PGAT will have a minimum of 15 events on it's schedule next year at $9 mil or more. So what if they miss one WGC here or there... What they WON'T miss is the Majors/Players and now the FE Playoffs... My guess is the WGC Memphis the week after the Open next summer will illustrate that.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 23 May 2018, 2:47 am

Found the quote from Iain Carter

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/44196002

Iain Carter wrote:But PGA Tour rules require their members to compete in an event they have not played over the past four years and, given the pressures of his global schedule, Rose had no viable option other than to put this week's Fort Worth Invitational on his schedule

Wow, the big bad PGATour is making Justin Rose play the Colonial instead of the PGATour.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 23 May 2018, 4:13 am

GPB wrote:Found the quote from Iain Carter

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/44196002

Iain Carter wrote:But PGA Tour rules require their members to compete in an event they have not played over the past four years and, given the pressures of his global schedule, Rose had no viable option other than to put this week's Fort Worth Invitational on his schedule

Wow, the big bad PGATour is making Justin Rose play the Colonial instead of the PGATour.
I'm a fan of Justin Rose, but this is just the biggest bunch of cr*p.  And Iain Carter is out of his mind on this, or ignorant, or both. (And I actually enjoy reading I.C. on most things)

Here's the year by year count of "regular" events that Justin Rose has played on the European Tour this decade (this is based on CALENDAR year, not necessarily "Tour season").  This includes all ET events EXCEPT the 8 co-sanctions (Majors/WGC)... but does include ET playoffs when they had them and the Olympics...

5 - 2017
2 - 2016
7 - 2015
4 - 2014
7 - 2013
5 - 2012
5 - 2011
2 - 2010

That's an average of less than 5 "regular" events a year on the ET.

On the other hand... here's then number of "regular" PGAT events he's played this decade. It includes all PGAT official events EXCEPT Majors/WGC's.  The first number is the total PGAT events.. the 2nd number in ( ) is then number of events he's played OVER the amount needed to meet his 15 minimum on the PGAT. All years (except 2010-11 range) he had 7 or 8 Majors/WGC's to add to the event counts below to meet his 15 PGAT minimum.

11 - 2017 (3)
11 - 2016 (3)
13 - 2015 (5)
11 - 2014 (4)
10 - 2013 (3)
12 - 2012 (5)
16 - 2011 (9)
19 - 2010 (6)

Conclusion... Justin Rose's only real problem is obviously NOT with the PGA Tour, but with the European Tour... Because it's pretty clear he prefers to play the ET as LITTLE as he can get away with. And in the meantime he's willing to play well over the minimum on the PGAT.

Let's just call it what it is... Justin Rose is an "Americanized" Euro based in the U.S. now.  The U.S. is his home and the PGAT is his home tour.  My guess is if it weren't to maintain Ryder Cup eligibility... he probably wouldn't be an ET member at all.

VERY disappointing Rose would throw "shade" on the PGAT this way. I have NO problem with any legitimate criticism of sometimes conflicting Tour requirments... but this one doesn't come close to passing the smell test.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 23 May 2018, 10:15 am

Completely agree about Justin Rose - just trying to avoid travel in advance of Memorial most likely.
Rosey's game has gone off the boil from last autumn's torrid pace, but if he's to return to his best Muirfield Village is likely where he'll do it, first-class flights to LHR be damned.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Wed 23 May 2018, 1:48 pm

Sublime.

https://twitter.com/Skratch/status/998983432335187970
avatar
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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 23 May 2018, 2:15 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Completely agree about Justin Rose - just trying to avoid travel in advance of Memorial most likely.
Rosey's game has gone off the boil from last autumn's torrid pace, but if he's to return to his best Muirfield Village is likely where he'll do it, first-class flights to LHR be damned.
And let's not forget the benefit of avoiding the UK tax man as well. Sergio and Stenson aren't playing Colonial, but they're not playing the BMW either. And both of them have been very outspoken about the tax reasons they play in the UK as little as possible.  Sergio spending this week in his other home in "tax haven" Switzerland is no accident.

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Re: PGA Tour: Byron Nelson: "Where Have All The Golfers Gone?": Notes from the Ballwasher

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