England Summer Tour - Part 2

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England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 29, 2018 9:10 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures

9 June - 16:05: South Africa 42 - England 39

16 June - 16:05: South Africa v England - Toyota Stadium, Bloemfontein SkySports action
23 June - 16:05: South Africa v England - DHL Newlands, Cape Town SkySports action


Officials

1st Test
Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

2nd Test
Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 1: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant 2: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

3rd Test
Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)



Squads

England

Full backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Nathan Earle (Saracens) *
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks)

Inside backs
Danny Cipriani (Wasps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Cameron Redpath (Sale Sharks) * Piers Francis
Dan Robson (Wasps) *
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Spencer (Saracens) *
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors) Jason Woodward
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


Back five
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Ben Earl (Saracens) *
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs) *
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)  
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Brad Shields (Hurricanes/ Wasps) *
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Jack Willis (Wasps) * Nathan Hughes
Mark Wilson (Newcastle)

Front row
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)





South Africa

Forwards (24):
Nizaam Carr (loose forward, DHL Stormers, 5, 0)
Bismarck du Plessis (hooker, Montpellier, France, 79, 55 - 11t)
Dan du Preez (loose forward, Cell C Sharks, 3, 0)
Jean-Luc du Preez (loose forward, Cell C Sharks, 10, 10 - 2t)
Pieter-Steph du Toit (lock, DHL Stormers, 32, 20 - 4t)
Thomas du Toit (prop, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Jason Jenkins (lock, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Steven Kitshoff (prop, DHL Stormers, 23, 5 - 1t)
Siya Kolisi (loose forward, DHL Stormers, 28, 20 - 4t)
Wilco Louw (prop, DHL Stormers, 5, 0)
Frans Malherbe (prop, DHL Stormers, 17, 0)
Bongi Mbonambi (hooker, DHL Stormers, 14, 5 - 1t)
Oupa Mohojé (loose forward, Toyota Cheetahs 18, 0)
Franco Mostert (lock, Emirates Lions, 18, 5 - 1t)
Tendai Mtawarira (prop, Cell C Sharks, 98, 10 - 2t)
Ox Nche (prop, Toyota Cheetahs, uncapped)
Sikhumbuzo Notshe (loose forward, DHL Stormers, uncapped)
Trevor Nyakane (prop, Vodacom Bulls, 37, 5 - 1t)
Marvin Orie (lock, Emirates Lions, uncapped)
Chiliboy Ralepelle (hooker, Cell C Sharks 23, 5 - 1t)
Kwagga Smith (loose forward, Emirates Lions, uncapped)
RG Snyman (lock, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Akker van der Merwe (hooker, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Duane Vermeulen (loose forward, Toulon, France, 39, 10 - 2t)

Backs (19):
Lukhanyo Am (centre, Cell C Sharks, 1, 0)
Curwin Bosch (utility back Cell C Sharks, 1, 0)
Damian de Allende (centre, DHL Stormers, 28, 15 - 3t)
Faf de Klerk (scrumhalf, Sale Sharks, England, 11, 0)
Robert du Preez (flyhalf, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Aphiwe Dyantyi (wing, Emirates Lions, uncapped)
André Esterhuizen (centre, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Warrick Gelant (fullback, Vodacom Bulls, 2, 5 - 1t)
Travis Ismaiel (wing, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Elton Jantjies (flyhalf, Emirates Lions, 23, 203 - 2t, 38c, 39p)
Jesse Kriel (centre, Vodacom Bulls, 29, 40 - 8t)
Willie le Roux (fullback, Wasps, England, 41, 50 - 10t)
Makazole Mapimpi (wing, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Sibusiso Nkosi (wing, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Embrose Papier (scrumhalf, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Handré Pollard (flyhalf, Vodacom Bulls, 26, 218 - 3t, 37c, 40p, 3d)
Frans Steyn (utility back, Montpellier, France, 56, 132 - 10t, 5c, 21p, 3d)
Ivan van Zyl (scrumhalf, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Cameron Wright (scrumhalf, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)[/b]


Last edited by LondonTiger on Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:02 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by robbo277 on Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:18 pm

Quite happy with the starting line-up with the exception of Brown on the wing. If he doesn't feel he has the personnel to not start Brown then just start Daly on the wing. I get wanting to trial him at 15 but I think it's a poor selection.

Can't believe we're seeing Shields in the squad this early. Not because he hasn't played in England are anything like that, but because he's probably only just finished learning everyone's name. In place of second row cover is even more bizarre.

Disappointed to not see Genge, Simmonds or Cipriani on the bench. I think they're all fantastic players and they'd all be handy coming off the bench. Marler, Hughes and Francis don't thrill me as options to come on.

I think this selection is strong enough to win an away test against this South Africa side but I think there are weaknesses in the team that could be exposed. It's a difficult game to call. It might not even necessarily be close, either team could end up winning by 15 points if they got on a roll.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by LondonTiger on Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:24 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Is Cipriani a specialist full back any more than Daly is?

Sorry, my comments were two completely separate points in reply to someone else. Brown being preferred to Solomona and back rowers covering second row were the "specialist" comment.


And no Cips is a specialist 10, and one whom Jones has just seemed to say is not strong enough.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by lostinwales on Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:46 pm

I suppose with Hughes its a question of do we get the original dynamic version or the one from the last 6N who was held together with sticky tape and then broke

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:22 pm

Have we ever seen that dynamic Hughes for England though?

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by robbo277 on Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:02 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Have we ever seen that dynamic Hughes for England though?

He looked decent against Aus - it was either his debut, his full debut or at least his debut series. That's obviously only one game though.

I'm not sure how fit he'll be, he was also a late call-up to the tour as an injury replacement himself, so he's effectively leapfrogged Simmonds into the matchday squad.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Yoda on Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:44 pm

On form a destructive player. He should never have played this 6nations as highlighted by the awful defense in the huw Jones try as he was no way match fit. He's no where near vunipola at the moment. Simmonds should be at least on the bench but can also see why Hughes is in because of his considerable size. This could be a kicking slugfest. Would be good to see Simmonds at six at some point.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by yappysnap on Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:51 am

Probably a bit more concerned about this game now then I was pre team sheets going up

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Gooseberry on Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:30 am

robbo277 wrote:Quite happy with the starting line-up with the exception of Brown on the wing. If he doesn't feel he has the personnel to not start Brown then just start Daly on the wing. I get wanting to trial him at 15 but I think it's a poor selection.

Can't believe we're seeing Shields in the squad this early. Not because he hasn't played in England are anything like that, but because he's probably only just finished learning everyone's name. In place of second row cover is even more bizarre.

Jones did say that he genuinely sees Brown as a left wing, its not just a case of making do. Again we all may disagree, but this isn't the first coaching set up thats held that same opinion and I kinda hope they are the experts.

Shields though ...its worrying. If nothing else it suggests they have the same kind of hell or high water blind faith in him that Lancaster did in Burgess, and Johnson in Hape, and will overlook common sense just to have him because they are getting desperate to find some magic answer.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by robbo277 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:15 am

Gooseberry wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Quite happy with the starting line-up with the exception of Brown on the wing. If he doesn't feel he has the personnel to not start Brown then just start Daly on the wing. I get wanting to trial him at 15 but I think it's a poor selection.

Can't believe we're seeing Shields in the squad this early. Not because he hasn't played in England are anything like that, but because he's probably only just finished learning everyone's name. In place of second row cover is even more bizarre.

Jones did say that he genuinely sees Brown as a left wing, its not just a case of making do. Again we all may disagree, but this isn't the first coaching set up thats held that same opinion and I kinda hope they are the experts.

Shields though ...its worrying. If nothing else it suggests they have the same kind of hell or high water blind faith in him that Lancaster did in Burgess, and Johnson in Hape, and will overlook common sense just to have him because they are getting desperate to find some magic answer.

Hopefully Jones has seen some very good things from Brown and Shields in training this week. I'm not convinced by either selection at this time, but then I haven't seen them as close up as Jones has this last week. Same with the potential replacements, I haven't seen Solomona or Hill in training in, maybe they've looked off the pace and below the level.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:27 pm

Like the look of hill in the prem. Should Launchbury fail to recover would love to him on the bench at some point. That said great opportunity for isiekwe. Stupidly taking the wife out for tea so watching it behind time having to avoid all tv etc. Likely lads all over again.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:11 pm

Very good start for England, lovely break and looks like Brown has scored.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:12 pm

Feck me, what a start.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Breadvan on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:15 pm

Blimey Shocked
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:22 pm

Welcome back England, this is a brilliant performance so far.

Brown is on fire, making yards at will.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:23 pm

17-3.

A touch different to the dismal side that took the field during the Six Nations.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Breadvan on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:23 pm

This is what we've been missing with no specialist backs & skills coach..
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:24 pm

The difference a good attack coach makes...
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:25 pm

This is unbelievable. 3 try's in 17mins Shocked
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Breadvan on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:26 pm

I know its early but...
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:26 pm

Pretty awful Boks defence for that third try.

Game over after 17 minutes. Was anticipating a close one!

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:26 pm

Sa defence is appalling

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:30 pm

Hmmm Itoje mistake there.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:39 pm

Game back on after 29 minutes.

The English defence trying to outdo the Saffers for incompetence.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:42 pm

Starting to remind me of the England - Barbarians game.

Its entertaining stuff. SA have certainly woken up...
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:43 pm

All South africa

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:44 pm

Too easy for SA now

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Breadvan on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:44 pm

Outrageous stuff!
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:49 pm

England need half time

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:50 pm

What a comeback. Fair play to this South African team.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:51 pm

Ha ha ha ha well it was good whike it lasted.

Eddie Jones will be jetting off to Japan.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:51 pm

Defence???? Where is it???

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:51 pm

What a turnaround. I thought that England were going to absolutely smash South Africa after that start. What an incredible match so far.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Breadvan on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:52 pm

Just can't handle the SA speed.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:52 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Defence???? Where is it???

Maybe it's good that Gustard is going...

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:53 pm

We can't handle their physicality or their speed.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by JmD on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:54 pm

On form, Faf de Klerk is the best scrumhalf in the world. The speed of ball and the decision making Shocked

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:56 pm

Like men v boys.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:57 pm

And Le Roux is involved In everyrhing that's causing us damage.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by eirebilly on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:02 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:And Le Roux is involved In everyrhing that's causing us damage.

Its poetry in motion watching Le Roux run with ball in hand. He has perfect balance.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by TightHEAD on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:08 pm

Sort this s *t out!
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:11 pm

For feck sake....you can't let a feckin lock run that far!!!!!!

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by profitius on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:13 pm

Breadvan wrote:Just can't handle the SA speed.


Altitude could be playing a major part here.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:16 pm

Nah no excuses. We being absokutely bossed by speed and power ...and brains

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Breadvan on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:17 pm

profitius wrote:
Breadvan wrote:Just can't handle the SA speed.


Altitude could be playing a major part here.

Yeh and we could easily start shipping more points.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:17 pm

Are we actually making any ground with our carries from our "dynamic " runners.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:22 pm

Itoje’s worst game in an England shirt.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:23 pm

Ah that's a rubbish decision on Itoje. Faf is about 5ft!!

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:23 pm

Has Itoje got a brain in that head of his??? Honestly.. I'm lost with some of our decisions.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:24 pm

England genuinely need to get aggressive and feckin physical man. This is pathetic

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:27 pm

Empty the bench time. England’s forwards look dead on their feet.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

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