England Summer Tour - Part 2

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England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 29 May 2018, 9:10 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures

9 June - 16:05: South Africa 42 - England 39

16 June - 16:05: South Africa v England - Toyota Stadium, Bloemfontein SkySports action
23 June - 16:05: South Africa v England - DHL Newlands, Cape Town SkySports action


Officials

1st Test
Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

2nd Test
Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 1: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant 2: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

3rd Test
Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)



Squads

England

Full backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Nathan Earle (Saracens) *
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks)

Inside backs
Danny Cipriani (Wasps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Cameron Redpath (Sale Sharks) * Piers Francis
Dan Robson (Wasps) *
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Spencer (Saracens) *
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors) Jason Woodward
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


Back five
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Ben Earl (Saracens) *
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs) *
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)  
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Brad Shields (Hurricanes/ Wasps) *
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Jack Willis (Wasps) * Nathan Hughes
Mark Wilson (Newcastle)

Front row
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)





South Africa

Forwards (24):
Nizaam Carr (loose forward, DHL Stormers, 5, 0)
Bismarck du Plessis (hooker, Montpellier, France, 79, 55 - 11t)
Dan du Preez (loose forward, Cell C Sharks, 3, 0)
Jean-Luc du Preez (loose forward, Cell C Sharks, 10, 10 - 2t)
Pieter-Steph du Toit (lock, DHL Stormers, 32, 20 - 4t)
Thomas du Toit (prop, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Jason Jenkins (lock, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Steven Kitshoff (prop, DHL Stormers, 23, 5 - 1t)
Siya Kolisi (loose forward, DHL Stormers, 28, 20 - 4t)
Wilco Louw (prop, DHL Stormers, 5, 0)
Frans Malherbe (prop, DHL Stormers, 17, 0)
Bongi Mbonambi (hooker, DHL Stormers, 14, 5 - 1t)
Oupa Mohojé (loose forward, Toyota Cheetahs 18, 0)
Franco Mostert (lock, Emirates Lions, 18, 5 - 1t)
Tendai Mtawarira (prop, Cell C Sharks, 98, 10 - 2t)
Ox Nche (prop, Toyota Cheetahs, uncapped)
Sikhumbuzo Notshe (loose forward, DHL Stormers, uncapped)
Trevor Nyakane (prop, Vodacom Bulls, 37, 5 - 1t)
Marvin Orie (lock, Emirates Lions, uncapped)
Chiliboy Ralepelle (hooker, Cell C Sharks 23, 5 - 1t)
Kwagga Smith (loose forward, Emirates Lions, uncapped)
RG Snyman (lock, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Akker van der Merwe (hooker, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Duane Vermeulen (loose forward, Toulon, France, 39, 10 - 2t)

Backs (19):
Lukhanyo Am (centre, Cell C Sharks, 1, 0)
Curwin Bosch (utility back Cell C Sharks, 1, 0)
Damian de Allende (centre, DHL Stormers, 28, 15 - 3t)
Faf de Klerk (scrumhalf, Sale Sharks, England, 11, 0)
Robert du Preez (flyhalf, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Aphiwe Dyantyi (wing, Emirates Lions, uncapped)
André Esterhuizen (centre, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Warrick Gelant (fullback, Vodacom Bulls, 2, 5 - 1t)
Travis Ismaiel (wing, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Elton Jantjies (flyhalf, Emirates Lions, 23, 203 - 2t, 38c, 39p)
Jesse Kriel (centre, Vodacom Bulls, 29, 40 - 8t)
Willie le Roux (fullback, Wasps, England, 41, 50 - 10t)
Makazole Mapimpi (wing, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Sibusiso Nkosi (wing, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)
Embrose Papier (scrumhalf, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Handré Pollard (flyhalf, Vodacom Bulls, 26, 218 - 3t, 37c, 40p, 3d)
Frans Steyn (utility back, Montpellier, France, 56, 132 - 10t, 5c, 21p, 3d)
Ivan van Zyl (scrumhalf, Vodacom Bulls, uncapped)
Cameron Wright (scrumhalf, Cell C Sharks, uncapped)[/b]


Last edited by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 11:02 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:28 pm

I know we're only 55 minutes in but have England woken up a sleeping beast in South African rugby? They've been superb since 20 minutes!

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by owen10ozzy on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:32 pm

Not a frequent on these boards but do watch England whenever they play....

I know individual mistakes cost England...however, outside of that im seeing the same issues rearing their head which have been there the past year or so. Genuine question...should this test series see a whitewash (is a good chance given how easy S.Africa are finding this)....would it be time to bolt on the Jones experiment?

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by owen10ozzy on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:36 pm

Also must say....having seen us in 6 nations and today...we have by the far the most lacklustre forward line in World Rugby surely? Ponderous, Unimaginative, ill disciplined. And to think they were the foundations of English Rugby.

And a yellow card....well strap yourselves this could get ugly...

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:37 pm

Ah never a yellow card. Come on ref.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:38 pm

It wasn’t long ago that Jones led England to victory in every game in 2016 and all bar one in 2017.

Yes, England are on a bad run currently, but Jones deserves every chance to turn it around.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:39 pm

Good tackle De Klerk but he was offside at that ruck. He has been superb though

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:40 pm

Where's the leaders for England??!

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Poorfour on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:41 pm

Could someone please get a message to Mr O'Keeffe that there isn't actually a competition for worst refereeing decision of the day.

He has utterly failed to referee de Klerk's feed, which is 90 degrees from where it should be. Mako's card was dubious and he has allowed South Africa considerable extra leeway at the breakdown.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:41 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good tackle De Klerk but he was offside at that ruck. He has been superb though
I thought he was aswell

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Poorfour on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:42 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Good tackle De Klerk but he was offside at that ruck. He has been superb though
I thought he was aswell

Robshaw was penalised for much less earlier in the game

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:44 pm

I forgot Itoje was playing.

Good work by the replacements

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by No9 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:46 pm

Nice to see the Boks regaining form. Must be down to their inclusion in the Pro14... Run

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:47 pm

England actually playing with some pace. Wonders will never cease

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:49 pm

The SA lock just dragged itoje out of a ruck arm around the neck right in front of the ref and nothing

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by owen10ozzy on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:50 pm

How many times.....can Robshaw go through a game without being penalised for a non release. Fecking useless! Doesnt help his support line are like tortoises to the ruck

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:52 pm

Our forwards look so slow and ponderous. I think.we may be seeing the end of Robshaw for England, he's just too slow.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by eirebilly on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:54 pm

England can still win this...
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:54 pm

Well done Johnny May.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:56 pm

Well done to South Africa, an astonishing comeback that no one foresaw.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by eirebilly on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:56 pm

Well that was some game but England will need to have a very good look at themselves. They were in total control after 20mins and capitulated. SA did play very well but they should not have let that lead be taken away so quickly.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:57 pm

As a neutral I'd agree the ref was poor against England, but that's not the reason they lost. SA were very good, England not so much.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by No9 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:57 pm

Well don Boks... good win.

Time to get shot of Eddie Jones before the RWC, or face another humiliation.

Looks like it’s down to Wales to win in the Southern Hemisphere this summer.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:57 pm

Cue Cowan Dickie lineout error.

However he was actually good when he came on...

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 5:59 pm

eirebilly wrote:Well that was some game but England will need to have a very good look at themselves. They were in total control after 20mins and capitulated. SA did play very well but they should not have let that lead be taken away so quickly.

Of most concern was how poorly prepared England were for the altitude factor. They were struggling after around 25-30 minutes, and had practically nothing left from 60 mins onwards.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by SirJohnnyEnglish on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:00 pm

Cracking game to watch. Defence went to pieces at times for both sides. Easily Itoje's worst game for England. Love De Klerk and Le Roux they just make everything look so easy

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:01 pm

Lets not forget England were poor and SA excellent and yet the gap was a few points.

This series is not over already. We need to get the right starting line-up and finishers. And be more explosive like the first 20 mins.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by owen10ozzy on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:01 pm

Thats 5 losses in a row for the magic man Eddie Jones whose England team has not moved forward at all in past 12 months...

The major concern is that under Jones our historically strong foundation of defence has gone backwards massively and we cant contain any relatively fluid forward thinking side....Scotland had a field day with us in 6 nations...SA today.

What concerns me the most is these interviews afterwards because the players and Jones himself seems to completely dismiss any weaknesses and worries.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by No9 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:09 pm

They really shouldn’t allow Owen Farrell to take interviews, because he talks so much horlicks... “this makes us tighter”...”makes us stronger”... Laugh

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by bathmad on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:19 pm

When the pressure came on, we reverted to type by kicking away the ball (poorly) and invite more pressure. Agree with others our back row looks very slow, and a pack under pressure will inevitably give away penalties. As much as it pains me to say it, Shields at 6 please next week.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by EnglishReign on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:21 pm

Disappointing result after that blistering start. A few questionable decisions and the TMO for what was an obvious Itoje try seemed strange. No doubt the better team overall won, though. Lots to work on before next week.

Bit of an odd post-match interview from Billy V...thought they played really well and ‘it’s all good’?

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:30 pm

Jones Out. Bring back the best man manager and coach in the NH.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:38 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:Thats 5 losses in a row for the magic man Eddie Jones whose England team has not moved forward at all in past 12 months...

One against the Barbarians (we're surely not counting that?!), two that England were outsiders in, and one in Paris.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:49 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Jones Out. Bring back the best man manager and coach in the NH.

The daggers Will be getting sharpened....

But he will be given his chance to the world cup. Not much confidence at the moment however for all we were bad...I'll say again...it was only a few points difference.

We played with pace and width in the first 20. We must match that for longer. And play with the dynamism in the forwards that the replacements showed in the last 10.

The vunipolas need to be making much more ground likewise George...he was invisible. Their lock ...who looked like shaggy from Scooby do was outstanding. We know Itoje can do it...yet he was anonymous.

Pace and dynamism...was the glaring omission from this game. The Saffers had it in abundance.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 6:51 pm

The big question we have to ask...

Has Eddie Jones hit the point in his tenure like previous where he's run out of steam?

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by No9 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 7:08 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:The big question we have to ask...

Has Eddie Jones hit the point in his tenure like previous where he's run out of steam?

YES... that happened in the 6 Nations.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 7:16 pm

Are England paying the price for a lack of top class coaching? No attack coach until recently, inexperienced forwards coach, defence coach gone...

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 8:42 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Are England paying the price for a lack of top class coaching? No attack coach until recently, inexperienced forwards coach, defence coach gone...

I do feel we need much better coaching of the forwards. At no point did they ever look like a unit. Short on pace AND power is a major issue. The shocking discipline an even bigger issue. I was wondering if they took the wrong lock off.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Yoda on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 9:00 pm

Initial thoughts
-I was right about Robshaw, too slow
-Where has this sa been hiding?
-Faf , Duane v and Willie won them the game, electric
-We scored some nice tries as did they
-I actually thought the ref wasn't too bad it was Poite who advised him badly
-Still too many penalties
-Maro should have been carded not mako. Perhaps should be dropped for a rest to teach him a lesson, let his team down with silly pens.
-Criminal to let 21 point lead go
-Ford needs to tackle round the legs
-Sa second row is twice the player of Eban etibeth absolute monster.

Right onwards and upwards let's not dwell on it.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 10:02 pm

Well that's disappointing. Turned on 2 big individual errors from Itoje and Daly but really missed our locks out there. I do agree Robshaw looked off the pace. Too much kicking from youngs when ball in hand we looked miles better. Expect to win he next 2 tests based on this but we need Launchbury back.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by ebop on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 10:34 pm

7.5, do you reckon this 5th loss in a row has knocked England out of the ‘best team in the world’ spot?
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by TJ on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 10:38 pm

Duty281 wrote:
owen10ozzy wrote:Thats 5 losses in a row for the magic man Eddie Jones whose England team has not moved forward at all in past 12 months...

One against the Barbarians (we're surely not counting that?!), two that England were outsiders in, and one in Paris.

Outsiders? the team ranked 2 in the world? they haven't played NZ so who were favourites to beat England?

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by ebop on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 10:44 pm

The Baabaas game most certainly should be included. There is absolutely no excuse losing to this team. To ship as many points as England have in two consecutive games is shocking.
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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 10:57 pm

TJ wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
owen10ozzy wrote:Thats 5 losses in a row for the magic man Eddie Jones whose England team has not moved forward at all in past 12 months...

One against the Barbarians (we're surely not counting that?!), two that England were outsiders in, and one in Paris.

Outsiders?  the team ranked 2 in the world?  they haven't played NZ so who were favourites to beat England?

South Africa today, and Ireland in the Six Nations, were both games that England were not favourites to win.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 11:03 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TJ wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
owen10ozzy wrote:Thats 5 losses in a row for the magic man Eddie Jones whose England team has not moved forward at all in past 12 months...

One against the Barbarians (we're surely not counting that?!), two that England were outsiders in, and one in Paris.

Outsiders?  the team ranked 2 in the world?  they haven't played NZ so who were favourites to beat England?

South Africa today, and Ireland in the Six Nations, were both games that England were not favourites to win.

How does them not being favourites make the defeats more acceptable? The reason they were not favourites is because they haven't been playing well! England are the best resources rugby nation in the world and should never be losing 4/5 games in a row. Jones' post match comments would have annoyed the hell out of me if I was an England fan!

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 09 Jun 2018, 11:10 pm

I wouldn't say so ebop. Certainly we should have won today though.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 12:04 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TJ wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
owen10ozzy wrote:Thats 5 losses in a row for the magic man Eddie Jones whose England team has not moved forward at all in past 12 months...

One against the Barbarians (we're surely not counting that?!), two that England were outsiders in, and one in Paris.

Outsiders?  the team ranked 2 in the world?  they haven't played NZ so who were favourites to beat England?

South Africa today, and Ireland in the Six Nations, were both games that England were not favourites to win.

How does them not being favourites make the defeats more acceptable? The reason they were not favourites is because they haven't been playing well! England are the best resources rugby nation in the world and should never be losing 4/5 games in a row. Jones' post match comments would have annoyed the hell out of me if I was an England fan!

Because they're not expected to win those games. Perhaps England shouldn't be losing 4 games in a row, but Ireland are a better team right now, France are not easy to beat in Paris, and I don't think England have won a test match in South Africa (cricket excluded) since the year 2000! Expectations are important. The only disappointments are losing to Scotland, blowing a sizeable lead, and showing signs of poor preparation in parts.

In some ways, this losing run a year out from the World Cup is good for England. After that lengthy winning streak in 2016+2017, disrupted only by Ireland, Jones' England were being talked up as as good as the All Blacks, soon to be number 1 etc. Everything is cooling down gently!

Interviews are all fake and full of fluff, I don't bother listening to them.

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 12:09 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I wouldn't say so ebop. Certainly we should have won today though.
The usual delusional wishful thinking. Not sure what game you are talking about

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by yappysnap on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 12:38 am

So we're told off for thinking we should win and for thinking we shouldn't win? This makes no sense

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by No9 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 2:22 am

Duty281 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TJ wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
owen10ozzy wrote:Thats 5 losses in a row for the magic man Eddie Jones whose England team has not moved forward at all in past 12 months...

One against the Barbarians (we're surely not counting that?!), two that England were outsiders in, and one in Paris.

Outsiders?  the team ranked 2 in the world?  they haven't played NZ so who were favourites to beat England?

South Africa today, and Ireland in the Six Nations, were both games that England were not favourites to win.

How does them not being favourites make the defeats more acceptable? The reason they were not favourites is because they haven't been playing well! England are the best resources rugby nation in the world and should never be losing 4/5 games in a row. Jones' post match comments would have annoyed the hell out of me if I was an England fan!

Because they're not expected to win those games. Perhaps England shouldn't be losing 4 games in a row, but Ireland are a better team right now, France are not easy to beat in Paris, and I don't think England have won a test match in South Africa (cricket excluded) since the year 2000! Expectations are important. The only disappointments are losing to Scotland, blowing a sizeable lead, and showing signs of poor preparation in parts.

In some ways, this losing run a year out from the World Cup is good for England. After that lengthy winning streak in 2016+2017, disrupted only by Ireland, Jones' England were being talked up as as good as the All Blacks, soon to be number 1 etc. Everything is cooling down gently!

Interviews are all fake and full of fluff, I don't bother listening to them.

deja vu anyone... Doh

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

Post by lostinwales on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 2:34 am

Nice to know our neighbours are so interested in how England plays. And soo much kind advice too. Where to start?

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Re: England Summer Tour - Part 2

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