20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

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20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 11:19 am

First topic message reminder :

Edinburgh Squad

LH's: Schoeman, Dell, Marfo, Sutherland
Hookers: McInally, Ford, Fenton, Cherry
TH's: Nel, Berghan, McCallum, Ceccarelli
Second Row: Gilchrist, Toolis, McKenzie, Carmichael, Hunter-Hill
Back Row: Barclay, Hamilton, Crosbie; Watson, Ritchie; Bradbury, Mata, Miller, Nayalo

SH's: Pyrgos, Fowles, Kennedy, Shiel
FH's: Hickey, VDW, McLelland, Baggott
Centres: Scott, Socino, Bennett, Dean, Johnstone, G Taylor
Back 3: Fife, VDM, Hoyland, Brown, Graham; Kinghorn

Forward Total: 26
- Internationals: 16 (14 Scots, 1 Italian, 1 Fijian)
- NSQ: 4 (1 of whom is a project)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 7 (2 capped)
Backs Total: 20
- Internationals: 8 (Socino lone non-Scot)
- NSQ: 4 (2 projects)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 10 (2 capped)

Total: 46

Glasgow Squad

LH's: Bhatti, Allan, Kebble
Hookers: Brown, Turner, Stewart, Bryce
TH's: Fagerson, Nuka, Rae, Nicol
Second Row: Gray, Swinson, Cummings, McDonald, Brian, Peterson, Davidson
Back-Row: M Fagerson, Harley; Gibbins, Smith, Fusaro; Wilson, Ashe, Tameilau, Flockhart

SH's: Price, G Horne,Frisby, Mata, Baletto
FH's: Horne, Hastings, Jackson
Centres: Dunbar, H Jones, Johnson, Dunbar, Grigg, P Kelly
Back 3: Seymour, VDM, L Jones, Masaga, Tagive, Hughes, Beattie, Nairn; Hogg, Thomson

Forward Total: 27
- Internationals: 15 (12 Scots, 2 Americans, 1 Tongan)
- NSQ: 6 (2 projects)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 11 (4 capped, both projects)
Backs Total: 24
- Internationals: 14 (10 Scots, 1 Fijian, 1 Kiwi, 1 Canadian, 1 Aussie)
- NSQ: 4 (No projects if Thomson is already tied to SA)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 8 (1 capped)

Total: 51

Overall: 97 players
- Internationals: 53 (43 Scots)
- NSQ: 19 (5 projects)
- Under 25: 36 (9 capped)


Last edited by Hazel Sapling on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 11:20 am; edited 14 times in total

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by tigertattie on Thu 11 Oct 2018, 12:09 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Can we play 20 questions to try and guess?

sure but it will need to be on a new thread Wink
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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by EWT Spoons on Thu 11 Oct 2018, 12:41 pm

Nel and I have come to an agreement, I'll stop stalking him, if he gives me some chat about what's happening in the team  Very Happy Wink

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by BigGee on Sun 14 Oct 2018, 9:35 am

The Ali Price Fall from Grace story finally gets published in the Sunday Times. A very honest bit of reflection on his part and it has been good to see him back on form this season.




Dave Rennie has given Ali Price a vote of confidence by starting him against Saracens this afternoon, but not so long ago the message was rather different. Safe to say the Glasgow coach wasn’t impressed with the shape the scrum-half let himself get into after playing only a bit-part role for Scotland in the Six Nations.

The first the wider world knew of it was in pre-season when Rennie, unprompted, informed reporters that Price had been “overweight, a bit heavy and sluggish” in the second half of the last campaign. The player himself had been told a few home truths much earlier, most eloquently in the form of his non-selection for the run-in as George Horne became the new darling of the Scotstoun crowd.

“I vividly remember standing up the back of the stand for the last two matches, Edinburgh and the [Scarlets] semi-final, and it was the kick up the arse I needed,” admits Price. “Should I have needed it? Probably not — it’s my job to be fit. So, no, I shouldn’t have needed it, but I’m definitely in a better place now because of it.”


There is no suggestion that Price had gone all Morgan Spurlock, supersizing his way out of the frustration of losing his Scotland place to Greig Laidlaw after that Cardiff disaster where his prints were on the first two Welsh scores. It does, however, seem reasonable to deduce that his focus and work-rate weren’t everything they could have been.

Tellingly, he went from 89kg to 81.8kg in six weeks this summer after an enforced early return from tour brought matters to a head.




“If you can have such a thing as a perfectly timed injury, that was it,” says Price of the groin strain he picked up against Canada. “I came back here after six weeks away from rugby and just thought, ‘Right, I’m doing this for me.’

“I know myself I’d let myself go. A bit of it was workload, coming off the bench for those 10-15 minute cameos in the Six Nations, but it was my own fault — I let myself get in that position. I came back to Glasgow, wasn’t as sharp as I used to be, and I paid the price.



–– ADVERTISEMENT ––










Heavy Price to pay: Ali Price had a wake-up call after dropping down the pecking order

Heavy Price to pay: Ali Price had a wake-up call after dropping down the pecking order
FRIKKIE KAPP/INPHO

“It wasn’t to do with how I looked or anything like that, but my fitness wasn’t what it should have been. Getting to breakdowns a tenth of a second quicker, half a second quicker: that’s my game, and it has an impact if I can’t do it.

“At the end of last season, I felt like I wasn’t able to challenge or run as I like to, because I wasn’t getting there quick enough. I’d come off the pitch after 50/60 minutes and all I’d done was pass and kick. There’s more to my game, and I’d kind of lost it.”

Up to a point, it’s easy to have sympathy. Before that fateful afternoon at the Principality, Price had known little other than success in a giddy two-year spell that saw him go from fourth choice at Glasgow to wreaking havoc with club and country, usually in the company of Finn Russell, his close friend and long-time flatmate. It all happened very quickly, as did the fall.

“You’re never going to go through your career sky-rocketing every season, but until it [a negative experience] happens, you don’t know how you’re going to deal with it. I was getting a lot of questions towards the end of last season about how I’d fallen off the face of the earth, and I was thinking about how only the previous November, I’d been starting for Scotland, everyone was flying and everything was great.

“You don’t become a bad player overnight, but when things don’t go your way, you can get bogged down. The important thing is that you come out the other side.”

Cheetahs away last month was a turning point, Price’s two tries and general zip announcing that he was back. There have been further impressive flashes in the wins over Munster and Dragons, enough for Rennie to give him the nod today.

Europe has regularly been a happy place for Price. He was outstanding in the home and away wins over both Leicester and Racing that helped Glasgow to a first quarter-final, a feat they followed up by finishing bottom in last year’s pool. Although the Warriors were, at various points, well in four of the five defeats they ultimately suffered to Exeter, Leinster and Montpellier, there were other common themes.

“It was a bit of a wake-up call for us,” says Price, who was dual-registered in his Bedford days and actually played for Saracens in their first competitive game at Allianz Park. “In the wins we’d had going into Europe last year, we were able to play one way — our way. Running the ball effectively and scoring tries.

“Our way of playing is great, but what if someone counteracts it? What do we do then? We were having to find other ways of trying to break teams down and we’ve learned a lot from that. This year, people will have seen that we’ve had to be more direct, carry through the middle of teams and bring other elements to the game.”

Glasgow still turn the ball over too much, a nadir of 23 such concessions against Southern Kings coming a fortnight after a tally of 17 against Munster, whose cloying defence isn’t a million miles from how Saracens will play. On the flip side, what all this imprecision can’t and doesn’t disguise is the threat in the Glasgow backline. When Price, Adam Hastings, Huw Jones, DTH van der Merwe et al really fire, the flames can be seen for miles.

“In the Champions Cup, you’ve got to come straight out, first ten minutes, and really put your stamp on it,” says Price, giving some indication of how Rennie plans to approach the game. The New Zealander, it must be said, does the front-foot stuff pretty well. “He’s a very honest guy, whatever he’s thinking he’ll tell you, and what he said to me [after the Six Nations], I couldn’t argue with any of it. Have I had a pat on the back for how I’ve responded? I shouldn’t have needed that [the criticism] in the first place.”

What will he do when the next setback happens, as it inevitably will? Does he feel himself better equipped to deal with disappointment? “I don’t think I’d let myself fall as far as I did before addressing it — I’d see the signs. Ultimately, it just came down to myself. A bit of complacency, thinking I’d cracked it. The reality is you’ve never cracked it.”

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by BigGee on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:17 pm


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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 1:35 pm

Hogg speaks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45855408

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by Eejit on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 5:26 pm

Maybe an unpopular opinion but I don't think its the worst idea ever for Hogg to move on. I think he's probably achieved all he's going to (aside from more Pro14 titles) and it may be better for Scottish rugby as a whole for him to go pick up a paycheque in France or in England. Its not as if Glasgow get a lot of games out him anyway, he only played seven times or so last year.

The difficulty is, who is the next cab off the rank? Jackson proved without a shadow of a doubt in recent weeks that he's fine to stand in but he's not really the fullback we're looking for and its not as if we have any coming through other than Thomson or McDowall.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 5:48 pm

At 1 point G Bryce did not seem terrible at FB for Glasgow. He proceeded to go to Edinburgh.

When does Maitland's contract end? He left to be a FB at LI and is now a winger at Sarries. Would he come back to be a FB mainly (I can't see Sarries continue to keep L Williams on that paycheque to be a number 23)?

Glasgow can't afford to spend 10-15% of their playing budget on a FB who is playing 5-10 games a season. So it depends on the SRU and what the final figure is. Jackson, L Jones and Thomson are handy players without being quite good enough for the top games

As for Bradbury, he may find himself looking for a new club sooner rather than later. SHC had a fine end to the season last year and Cockers got rid of him over salary and attitude. Hope he cleans up. He should be the starting 6 or 8 in the AI's.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by Eejit on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 6:04 pm

Maitland has a contract till 2020 according to ESPN but it remains a possibility I suppose. As it happens, I'd take any one of Sarries three world class fullbacks but that's neither here nor there.


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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 6:20 pm

For sheer comedy effect Glenn Bryce should definitely replace Hoggy as first choice at Glasgow. He may not have seemed terrible on occasion when slotting into a firing Glasgow backline but I can assure you he is. He really is.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by BigGee on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 9:11 pm

I suspect we need to look past current and present players when we are looking for the next Hoggy. Hopefully there will be one currently germinating somewhere down in the borders!

I am not convinced he will go anyway. He will get a very good offer from the SRU and is still young enough to differ the decision for another two years. This Glasgow team is young enough to have a bit of development left in it if they can hang on to the players for a few more years. I would think the attraction of being near home with a very young family and being well looked after counts for a lot.

I don't think we should sell the crown jewels to keep him, to the detriment of the rest of the team but we should try and keep him if he is willing to compromise on money a little bit.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by George Carlin on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 12:42 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Hogg speaks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45855408

Essentially:
Mister AP wrote:I need to be in a position to look after my family.
means that any new contract has to keep me and mine in Pampers for a very long time.

I can't blame him. Would love to see him in Super Rugby.
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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 4:51 pm

Sounds like he's off. Hard to blame him given the money that Gray and Russell are likely on. Good time in his career to cash in, plus he can always return.

Challenge for Glasgow trying to replace him. Personally I'd like to see Lee Jones at 15...

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by jimbopip on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 4:58 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Sounds like he's off. Hard to blame him given the money that Gray and Russell are likely on. Good time in his career to cash in, plus he can always return.

Challenge for Glasgow trying to replace him. Personally I'd like to see Lee Jones at 15...

Well it won't be Rhubarb, or Layla Massager or Brandon Thompson, or MadMata. I can't see any of those being considered a full time reliable 15. (Reliable disqualifies MadMata from most posts.)

Rozza or Stafford McDowall. Headscratch

Mind you there was widespread weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth when we heard Dancer was leaving us for la vie Parisienne; that hasn't turned out too badly.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 5:00 pm

........hasn't turned out too badly (yet!)

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by jimbopip on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 5:02 pm

No RDW warning

The way they have maintained standards has been remarkable. Last time we lost to Sarries the 10 missed touch with an easy penalty and didn't take three points at a crucial stage in the first half. Plus ca change as they say in Paris. And Scotstoun.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by tigertattie on Thu 18 Oct 2018, 11:45 am

I went to the Doctor today as I've been feeling really low recently. I then realised that I've not seen any rugby for months. Only Glasgow games!

Anyhoo

Hogg will likely move on for the money. He's got a future to think about and can't let loyalty/nostalgia rule his decisions. As for a rpelacement, why would Maitland leave the most sucessful side in England to come back to Glasgow? He's getting game time. He's winning titles. He gets to go to parties with Owen Farrell.

The good thing if Hogg did move on is that it could potentially open up a space for someone to compete with Kinghorn as the heir apparent to Hogg in a scotland jersey.
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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by jimbopip on Thu 18 Oct 2018, 12:01 pm

tigertattie wrote:I went to the Doctor today as I've been feeling really low recently.  

What is this rubbish? Next you'll be regaling us with dross about your utterly banal family life. warning

Rugby Forum is what it says on the tin, Tigertattie, Rugby Forum.


Scaffolding, as they say in trendy classrooms;


X is a better …. than Y. But Z is even better.

Team A are great and team B are woeful.

That's it. No need to get all fancydan about it. Actually it's best not to because props occasionally try to read these pages and it seems unduly cruel to flaunt complex sentences in front of them.

Also, your post fails on the factual basis that Sunday's slugfest with Sarries was raw rugby, red in tooth and claw.

Batman, Fagerson jr, BBB broken noses to the stuck up English prats. Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by reallybored on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 12:22 am

Anyone else think Crosbie moving to Glasgow on loan would be a good move?

He's barely getting any game time due to the competition at Edinburgh, plus Barclay & Carmichael are still to return, whereas Glasgow are kind of thin in the back-row.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 7:00 am

With Mata, Bradbury, Watson and Ritchie likely involved in the AIs he's probably going to see plenty gametime over the next few weeks. Plus if he moves then Edinburgh will be short over this period!

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 12:29 pm


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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by BigGee on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 7:16 pm

Just watching the Tigers v Scarlets build up on BT

John Barclay is doing summary for them and whilst doing the pre match on the pitch, the Scarlets fans were serenading him with a pretty tuneless rendition of Flower of Scotland! He could hardly keep a straight face!

In other news Jake Kerr has been pulled onto the bench as Tom Youngs has dropped out. Maybe his chance to show what he can do on the big stage,

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by 123456789. on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 7:27 pm

On the Hogg front it's worth saying that he has a few business interests in the Bearsden/ Glasgow area and so may well stay around depending on what they are worth. In terms of whether it would be good or bad for Scottish rugby as a whole it would be unequivocally bad. Yes you free up his contract. But you also lose control of your greatest asset. The point that he only played 6-7 games for Glasgow in the league last year popped up. In Ireland that would be seen as a reason to keep him.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by Eejit on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 8:03 pm

Yes but Ireland have four professional teams plus a production line of excellent players coming through rugby focused schools and colleges. We on the other hand have bugger all.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by BigGee on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 9:24 am

Some interesting selection dilemmas for both pro teams for next weekends games.

Both have had their full teams out for two full on battering games and surely a lot of the players who will be playing in the Wales v Scotland game the following week will need resting.

This the point in the season where squad depth and players stepping up really starts to matter.

Glasgow are probably in a slightly better position in that Munster away was never going to be seen as a must win game for them. Edinburgh though are not in a position to be turning down league points and won't want to lose their momentum.

It will be very interesting to see how this one pans out.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 9:47 am

I was about to post a similar thing Biggee.

As much as Glasgow won’t like to lose, if ever there was a game that it would not be a disaster to lose it is this one. Glasgow have a comfortable points total at the top and don’t need to win. Losing away to Munster certainly isn’t a disgrace. Rennie has managed the squad well but Brown, Gray, Hastings and Huw Jones should probably get a rest given they’ll be having a busy autumn.

Things aren’t so simple for Edinburgh who desperately need to win away to Zebre, which certainly isn’t the gimme that is used to be. Some of the Edinburgh forwards have been flogged hard so far, with McInally, Toolis and Gilchrist definitely needing a break. Toolis has played every game this season, usually for 80 minutes! I suspect Nel will be rested too but I actually hope Berghan plays – he is struggling to regain last season’s form and a lot of that is down to inconsistent gametime. If he can be given 60 minutes he’ll be in a much better place for the AIs. Backs wise Matt Scott is the most likely player to be rested but he missed the Cheetahs game, and is usually subbed off around the 60 minute mark, so doesn’t necessarily need one. Kinghorn should probably get a break too given he’s likely to play at least 3 games in the AIs.

Toolis and Gilchrist being rested will lead to 2nd row problems for Edinburgh – CHH is the only other fit lock available and he’s only made 1 Edinburgh appearance off the bench. Not sure what the chat with Charmichael is but he hasn’t played all season – putting them together in the boiler house would be a concern.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by BigGee on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 10:27 am

Hastings has to sit this one out, he has been involved in every game as well and started all but one.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 10:51 am

Other than at 2nd row, the possible Edinburgh team isn't too bad:

1 Sutherland
2 Ford
3 Berghan
4 CHH
5 ?
6 Crosbie
7 Ritchie
8 Mata

9 Kennedy
10 VDW/Hickey
11 VDM (if he's back)
12 Dean
13 JJ
14 Graham
15 Fife

Subs - Marfo, Cherry, McCallum, ?, Hamilton, Fowles, VDW/Hickey, Socino

If Berghan is held for Scotland then McCallum starts and the Italian bloke (who we haven't seen yet) onto the bench.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by BigGee on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 11:34 am

I thought someone said that Carmichael is back in training now, maybe he will be ready to start playing by next weekend

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by BigGee on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 11:43 am

Glasgow maybe something like this:

Keeble
Turner
Rae
Cummings
Davidson
Gibbins
Tamileau (I think MF will get rested as well)
Fusaro
Horne G
Horne P
DTH
Johnson (could do with more game time)
Grigg
Niko
Tommy S

Allen
Stewart
Du Plesis
Peterson
Smith M
Frisbee
Thompson
Jackson (I would not be bothered if he went for Nairn)


Actually that is not as bad as I first feared!


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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by 123456789. on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 2:27 pm

Out of interest does anyone know (has it happened before) the last time both Scottish teams recorded Bonus Point wins in Europe?

Glasgow really should qualify from here I'd say, Edinburgh have a big couple of games ahead.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by 123456789. on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 2:30 pm

Also I see Edinburgh have been given the green light to build a 7,800 seater stadium at Murrayfield. Obviously brilliant that they have their own home coming but I hope that they can extend if need be. You don't want a situation where if they develop Glasgow-esque levels of success and outgrow their stadium, move back to big Murrayfield and the SRU are left with a white elephant.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 2:49 pm

We could do with a new ongoing banter thread - this one is close to bursting!

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by BigGee on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 3:04 pm

123456789. wrote:Out of interest does anyone know (has it happened before) the last time both Scottish teams recorded Bonus Point wins in Europe?

Glasgow really should qualify from here I'd say, Edinburgh have a big couple of games ahead.

Realistically both Glasgow and Edinburgh will need to record home and away wins in the double header to qualify. It won't be impossible if they do not but that is what they should aim for. I am note sure which of those is the easier option to be honest. I don't quite buy the argument that Lyon will just throw the home game as they are already out, French teams at home have a bit more pride than that. They may not be 100% committed but they will still want to win. If Glasgow can manage to win down there, it will give them a massive confidence boost and I don't think that Lyon will then show up for the return. Maybe we will have a few players back by then as well, Hoggy in particular.

Edinburgh have beaten Newcastle in pre-season but this will be a different and much harder proposition, but their priority is still going to be league survival and that may effect the resources they might otherwise have thrown at this game. Mind you it does not seem to have done them any harm giving some of their squad players a game to show what they can do!

Both tough propositions to be honest, but both potentially doable.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by 123456789. on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 4:42 pm

I'd say that while both are tough they are easier than the average European ties and Edinburgh have had their biggest test already and taken an LBP. I actually think Glasgow have it slightly more tough to be completely honest but would still back them to go back to back against Lyon.

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 22 Oct 2018, 4:46 pm

Going to lock this thread now as it's going to hit the post limit - if someone could do a new thread that would be super!

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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 23 Oct 2018, 12:43 pm


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Re: 20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

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