Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Sat 02 Jun 2018, 2:14 am

First topic message reminder :

Carberry is 22, McPhillips is 21. Is this talk about sticking with McPhillips and hoping he turns out to be a gem maybe a tad naive? Carberry at a year older is being talked about as though he was the second coming and all this despite Sexton and Byrne and a whole backline of stellar players potentially blocking him. By contrast, it's almost as if we only know the name of McPhillips because we had no choice. A year ago the thinking was Jackson and Nelson. We then were saying Cooney can play 10 a bit. Then we signed Lealifano. Surely if McPhillips was the hot prospect, the coaches would have featured him more before Lealifano left.
In fact during Leanlifano's time here wasn't Nelson the preferred bench 10, and indeed started 3 games at 10 before Christmas, but then got injured?

Not meaning to be super negative, I hope I'm wrong. Cooney is a perfect example of a player suddenly shining from nowhere. I guess Ulster coaches know better than me if he's a real prospect worth thrusting into the limelight or not.


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:10 pm

That's useful insight into Burns. Thanks guys.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:30 pm

Certainly if he doesn’t improve you would be hoping one of our NIQ spots go on a 10 post World Cup.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:43 pm

Chat is the weather is going to be shocking so it's a huge gamble putting Lowry at 15.

Given they put Curtis at 13 in the last game (again pretty unfair if you ask me) then Addilson or Gilroy at 15 would make more sense.

Early days I know for the coaching ticket and fair play if they've looked at it and really think Lowry is the man under the highball in terrible conditions ... ok. But just feels pretty scattergun from the outside looking in.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:44 pm

clivemcl wrote:Certainly if he doesn’t improve you would be hoping one of our NIQ spots go on a 10 post World Cup.

Won't happen, especially with 3 young players who can play there. Think it'll be a while before we see a NIQ 10 at Ulster

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Oct 2018, 2:47 pm

Redman wrote:Chat is the weather is going to be shocking so it's a huge gamble putting Lowry at 15.  

Given they put Curtis at 13 in the last game (again pretty unfair if you ask me) then Addilson or Gilroy at 15 would make more sense.  

Early days I know for the coaching ticket and fair play if they've looked at it and really think Lowry is the man under the highball in terrible conditions ... ok.  But just feels pretty scattergun from the outside looking in.  

Would you fancy playing Curtis at 13 against Manu Tuilagi?

I watched Lowry play for the As against Scarlets. He played 12 that night and they kicked a bit over the top and Lowry went back after a few of them, he showed no fear especially when the Scarlets lads looked like fully grown men against a small boy

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Fri 12 Oct 2018, 5:35 pm

I'd fancy Stockdale against Tuilagi, Addison at 15 and keep Gilroy and Kernoghan on the wings.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Sun 14 Oct 2018, 3:59 pm

So that was a fairly terrible game.

Either of the those sides that showed up in the first half would get walloped by a good side .... as the Munster game showed I guess.

Leicester were unbelievably lazy. When we stepped it up in the 2nd half they totally fell apart. That line defence for O'Connor's try was a joke. Their discipline also was laughable. The players really didn't care. Murphy has a huge job on his hands turning that ship around.

As for Ulster? A bit of a mess really. I think the talent was evident and that's why we powered home but we really struggled for any sort of meaningful game plan and most of best moments came from running out of ideas and deciding to kick behind them. As it turned out that was a very successful strategy.

Cooney won MOTM but I've got to be honest guys, this season I've seen a big drop off in form from him. He didn't boss the game anywhere near enough. His box kicking was somewhere between poor and awful and his passing looks slower this year. He's still running great support lines but he just seems a bit jaded.

Burns had the odd nice cameo but again didn't offer anything near a complete performance.

Rory was poor in the first half. He's carrying a bit of lumber, but he stepped it up in the 2nd half.

The scrum is a serious issue for us. I honestly don't know why we have a scrum coach if that's the sort of performance we're going to put out. The thing is, with a scrum coach it's not just Dundon's wages we're paying. It's the time we're dedicating on the training pitches to work on scrums which then means we're not spending on other areas (cough - mauls defence/setup - cough). Moore steadied the ship but we need to aiming a bit higher than not losing our own scrums at a minimum.

Backs were pretty stifled from slow distribution and a lack of game plan. Addison showed glimpses. He seems like a poor man's Payne. That sounds harsh but is actually quite the compliment. Very similar in styles, though Payne being a full international and B & Irish Lion is a class above obviously.

Lowry did well considering though I do question the wisdom of playing him out of position with next to no lead time for that role. A better opposition back 3 would have peppered him with highballs all day. As it was Leicester tried that and after he caught 2 on the bounce they simply gave up that tactic 20 mins in.

Gilroy looked off the pace. I think he got injured about 15 mins in and while he still had pace, he offered a lot less lateral movement that usual (steps, jinks, etc).

Looking to next week, certain players in that squad need a break. I'd suggest we rotate heavily for Racing.


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by clivemcl on Sun 14 Oct 2018, 8:58 pm

Pretty much an admission that it was a move forced by media pressure and not based on principle or rules being broken.

Basically saying, once they feel the angry mob are no longer paying attention, they will be welcomed back...

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/ulsters-operations-director-says-door-remains-open-for-jackson-and-olding-to-return-in-the-future-37416632.html

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 9:29 am

Have to say Redman I disagree with most of that. Given our form over the past few games and the weather conditions that was a fantastic performance. Yes Tigers were very poor in the second half but the team really fronted up.

The scrum improved significantly when Moore came on, which we desperately needed as this has been a real area of concern over the past few weeks.

Addison was my MOTM, followed by McCloskey but Cooney was a worthy winner, I don't see what you are, he's playing as well if not better than last year and taken on more responsibility with more attacks coming off 9 this year.

In the pack Henderson had his best game of the season, which he needed as Beirne is on fire at Munster right now, all the Irish locks need to up their game. O'Connor had another solid game and the back row were excellent, including Reidy when he came on. Best had a good game as well but doesn't look like he can last more than 60min at this level anymore.

In the backs Lowry did really well considering he dropped the first high ball and Stockdale looking close to his best as well, so there is a good bit to be positive about this week, even if there is still a lot to work on.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:02 pm

rodders wrote: I don't see what you are, he's playing as well if not better than last year and taken on more responsibility with more attacks coming off 9 this year.

I only saw the first 30mins against Leicester but not sure what you've been watching rodders, his passes have been off more so far this season than probably all of last season. There was a ten minute period against Connacht where his passing just seem to completely dysfunction and it seems to be a recurring situation this season. He seems to go side to side more than last season and miss glaring openings to attack and Shanahan seems to offer more pace to the attack when he's on than Cooney

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:55 pm

marty2086 wrote:
rodders wrote: I don't see what you are, he's playing as well if not better than last year and taken on more responsibility with more attacks coming off 9 this year.

I only saw the first 30mins against Leicester but not sure what you've been watching rodders, his passes have been off more so far this season than probably all of last season. There was a ten minute period against Connacht where his passing just seem to completely dysfunction and it seems to be a recurring situation this season. He seems to go side to side more than last season and miss glaring openings to attack and Shanahan seems to offer more pace to the attack when he's on than Cooney

Agree. Cooney's passing is not as hot as last season. When Shanahan came on I had a double take as his passing was noticeably crisper, faster and more accurate.
However when Cooney moved to 10 he looked far more assured and potent than Burns had been.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 3:08 pm

So Aaron Sexton clocked 10.5m/s (37.8km/h) in the game versus Cardiff, the fastest speed ever recorded by an Ulster player in a match and raked up 7 tries in 6 games

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 1:26 pm

How long have records been kept?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 1:33 pm

Only a few years via GPS. It's not actually that quick when you consider they only track 40 meter splits. Stephen Ferris previously was the quickest in his final season.

10.5 m/s over short distance factored over 100 meters is going to be well over 11 seconds, which is fairly typical for a top outside back.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 1:42 pm

rodders, it's 10.5 metres per second that's less than 10 secs over 100 metres. Usain Bolts world record was 10.44 metres per second so it's world record pace

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 2:36 pm

Are we not comparing 2 different factors here?

I can imagine Bolt was 100m / 10.44m a second = 9.57 seconds (WR). So that's an average.

Sexton I imagine, at his fastest hit 10.5m. Impressive but not quite the same.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 3:37 pm

Redman wrote:Are we not comparing 2 different factors here?

I can imagine Bolt was 100m / 10.44m a second = 9.57 seconds (WR).  So that's an average.

Sexton I imagine, at his fastest hit 10.5m.  Impressive but not quite the same.  

Exactly, it's fast alright but not unusually so for an outside back.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by Redman on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 5:10 pm

Pete Browne is retiring. Sad to hear. Reoccurring concussions.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 5:21 pm

rodders wrote:
Redman wrote:Are we not comparing 2 different factors here?

I can imagine Bolt was 100m / 10.44m a second = 9.57 seconds (WR).  So that's an average.

Sexton I imagine, at his fastest hit 10.5m.  Impressive but not quite the same.  

Exactly, it's fast alright but not unusually so for an outside back.

It's done using the time over a distance, the same as Bolts so it's the same measurement. It just may be a shorter distance it's measured over

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by neilthom7 on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 7:47 pm

10.52 in the 100m quick no matter what position you are on a rugby pitch. The guy is also only 17 so is likely to get quicker.

Sad to hear about Browne and the concussions, explains why he hasn't been involved.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by profitius on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 9:59 pm

He's very very fast!

Another speedster is wee Lowry. He has Shane Williams type speed! Very impressive.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by The Great Aukster Yesterday at 10:59 am

profitius wrote:He's very very fast!

Another speedster is wee Lowry. He has Shane Williams type speed! Very impressive.

I hope Lowry is as quick as you say, but he wasn't able to stretch away from Ford who isn't renowned as being especially sharp.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 Yesterday at 11:34 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
profitius wrote:He's very very fast!

Another speedster is wee Lowry. He has Shane Williams type speed! Very impressive.

I hope Lowry is as quick as you say, but he wasn't able to stretch away from Ford who isn't renowned as being especially sharp.

Think that was more to do with him trying to fend off Ford rather than just pinning the ears back

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by rodders Yesterday at 11:50 am

marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
profitius wrote:He's very very fast!

Another speedster is wee Lowry. He has Shane Williams type speed! Very impressive.

I hope Lowry is as quick as you say, but he wasn't able to stretch away from Ford who isn't renowned as being especially sharp.

Think that was more to do with him trying to fend off Ford rather than just pinning the ears back

I thought Ford was renowned for being pretty quick?

It's easier to run without the ball so I don't think there is any shame in getting caught on the angle from that position(unless its by a tight 5 forward!), it was very good defending by Ford.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by marty2086 Yesterday at 2:29 pm

Interview in the latest edition of Business Eye with the Chairman of Ulsters Professional Game Management Committee, Paul Terrington. I'm sure you're all avid readers.

Nothing that we really didn't know, just that they expect a new CEO in early 2019 but the biggest takeaway for me was his discussion of Ulsters business model where he says that Ulster are looking critically at the business model and engaging with the business community sharing ideas get feedback to help them thinking differently about commercial opportunities and ways of financing rugby. He added he believed Ulster 'currently don't have enough revenues to realise our goals'.

Not to sure what to make of that as he didn't state whether those goals were on or off the field just seems slightly ominous given the cut backs.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

Post by carpet baboon Yesterday at 2:41 pm

To be honest I think if you asked any operations director at any club across any of the league's you would get a very similar answer. So I wouldn't be panicking just yet

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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