Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by McLaren on Wed 23 May 2018, 1:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

kwinigolfer wrote:
McLaren wrote:Kwini

I reckon Harry has scored a double eagle.

She's a weird looking bird, more a bogey I'd say.

Kwini, you have very high standards. I seem to remember you thought Lexi was a bit of a minger.
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Post by raycastleunited on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 12:22 pm

super_realist wrote:I just think he's very lightweight Diggers and gets pushed off the ball very easily, though he might do that for effect or perhaps because of his odd running technique which seems to give him a higher centre of gravity.
He must be one of the lightest players at the club, almost Neymar in terms of being a flyweight.

Here we go, the person who doesn't watch any football but remarkably still has detailed opinions to offer.

I would say (and most people would agree with me) that Sterling appears to have a low centre of gravity, which enables him to change direction quickly without losing balance. That's why he draws so many fouls. I'd guess he was one of the most fouled players in the league last season, no surprise he goes down he's got to protect himself otherwise he would have been injured much more. Definitely not lightweight I saw him hold off and roll bigger defenders many times last season.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 12:45 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
super_realist wrote:I just think he's very lightweight Diggers and gets pushed off the ball very easily, though he might do that for effect or perhaps because of his odd running technique which seems to give him a higher centre of gravity.
He must be one of the lightest players at the club, almost Neymar in terms of being a flyweight.

Here we go, the person who doesn't watch any football but remarkably still has detailed opinions to offer.

I would say (and most people would agree with me) that Sterling appears to have a low centre of gravity, which enables him to change direction quickly without losing balance. That's why he draws so many fouls. I'd guess he was one of the most fouled players in the league last season, no surprise he goes down he's got to protect himself otherwise he would have been injured much more. Definitely not lightweight I saw him hold off and roll bigger defenders many times last season.
Sorry, but this sort of thing re. diving in football is the sort of nonsense perpetuated to explain rampant cheating.
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Post by raycastleunited on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 1:06 pm

Navy, I'm not saying he doesn't dive (although he's not in the Dele Alli diving league), but Sterling does get clattered a hell of a lot. For his own protection he needs to take evasive action more than most.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 2:48 pm

raycastleunited wrote:Navy, I'm not saying he doesn't dive (although he's not in the Dele Alli diving league), but Sterling does get clattered a hell of a lot. For his own protection he needs to take evasive action more than most.
I guess that's fair enough OK.
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Post by Diggers on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 3:13 pm

Still yet to see an argument that diving is worse than shirt pulling or any other breaking of the rules. You can see players go out, premeditated, to hack a creative player until they get a yellow.
Also I’d say I coach, ref and watch a fair bit of junior footballer. Can’t say I’ve ever seen a kid take a dive, I don’t think it influences young lads to do the same.

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Post by raycastleunited on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 3:58 pm

Sorry Digs, I've started watching a bit of junior football recently (my nephew is at Spurs) and I've been shocked by the amount of diving and play acting. The 7-9 year olds I'm watching don't have any subtlety yet so the diving is blatant / hilarious / outrageous.

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Post by Diggers on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 4:04 pm

Must be the Dele Alli influence, Ray. Maybe it’s a bit more rife higher up the taken level, mine are all school level.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 4:43 pm

Diggers wrote:Still yet to see an argument that diving is worse than shirt pulling or any other breaking of the rules. You can see players go out, premeditated, to hack a creative player until they get a yellow.
Also I’d say I coach, ref and watch a fair bit of junior footballer. Can’t  say I’ve ever seen a kid take a dive, I don’t think it influences young lads to do the same.
Personally, I find the diving worse because it's trying to con the officials. The other things you mention are trying to get one up on an opponent directly - they're fouls and that's what the officials are there to police. The subterfuge of diving is worse; for me, anyway.
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Post by Diggers on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 4:58 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:Still yet to see an argument that diving is worse than shirt pulling or any other breaking of the rules. You can see players go out, premeditated, to hack a creative player until they get a yellow.
Also I’d say I coach, ref and watch a fair bit of junior footballer. Can’t  say I’ve ever seen a kid take a dive, I don’t think it influences young lads to do the same.
Personally, I find the diving worse because it's trying to con the officials. The other things you mention are trying to get one up on an opponent directly - they're fouls and that's what the officials are there to police. The subterfuge of diving is worse; for me, anyway.

When is a strong challenge a foul? When is taking evasive action a dive? Either way the player gets up and screams blue murder at the ref that they did nothing wrong. They all spend the game trying to con the ref, nobody admits they are in the wrong.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 6:45 pm

Diggers, you seldom see "evasive action" which doesn't turn into some sort of simulation. Rarely if ever have a seen a person jump over a challenge and simply get up and carry on. Most players will do absolutely anything to try and get a free kick or a decision out of even the slightest touch.

If Sterling was this great athlete, who was incredibly strong and could hold off players, why is he such a diving twit? Why doesn't he demonstrate how strong he is, and how good he is at balancing?

I'd love to see a player who simply ignored and rode such challenges because if a player is going to get a foul, it isn't because of a theatrical dive reminiscent of a reaction to being shot by a sniper.
Messi is quite good at staying on his feet for instance, why can't anyone else?

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Post by Diggers on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 6:50 pm

He does do exactly that many times in a game, you either just don’t look for it or choose to ignore it. Ray sees it, I see it, City and Liverpool fans see it, Pep sees it because as Mac rightly says he doesn’t pick players who aren’t strong and don’t put in a shift.

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Post by beninho on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 6:57 pm

Are people bothered when players claim throws, corners and goal kicks when they now it should be the other way. It happens in most games and is more rife then diving.

football is all about gaining an advantage to help your team win, and unfortunately that involves cheating to some extent. I don't like it, but I've learnt to live with it.

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Post by pedro on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 7:02 pm

beninho wrote:Are people bothered when players claim throws, corners and goal kicks when they now it should be the other way.
Yes it pees my off. Even the most obvious throws corners etc are claimed either way. A disgrace really.

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Post by beninho on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 7:08 pm

Glad you've noticed it aswell pedro. You hear people say so and so has dived, but rarely that someone claims a dodgy corner. Its just the same. The refs have such a hard job.

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Post by Davie on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 8:22 pm

super_realist wrote:Diggers, you seldom see "evasive action" which doesn't turn into some sort of simulation. Rarely if ever have a seen a person jump over a challenge and simply get up and carry on. Most players will do absolutely anything to try and get a free kick or a decision out of even the slightest touch.

Yet more evidence you don't watch much football - or you only see what you want to see

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Post by Davie on Mon 20 Aug 2018, 8:22 pm

super_realist wrote:Diggers, you seldom see "evasive action" which doesn't turn into some sort of simulation. Rarely if ever have a seen a person jump over a challenge and simply get up and carry on. Most players will do absolutely anything to try and get a free kick or a decision out of even the slightest touch.

Yet more evidence you don't watch much football - or you only see what you want to see

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Post by super_realist on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 7:56 am

Davie wrote:
super_realist wrote:Diggers, you seldom see "evasive action" which doesn't turn into some sort of simulation. Rarely if ever have a seen a person jump over a challenge and simply get up and carry on. Most players will do absolutely anything to try and get a free kick or a decision out of even the slightest touch.

Yet more evidence you don't watch much football - or you only see what you want to see

I see players diving far more often than I see them riding a challenge and carrying on, I also see players try to claim for everything as if that is going to sway a referee. Players should not be allowed to remonstrate and appeal. It should be a yellow card.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 8:13 am

Well, City (a team with Sterling as a key player) had more possession and completed more passes than any other premier league team has. How do they do that if players keep going to ground?
Messi is considered the greatest dribbler, runner on the bakl ever. The guy is a genius. Why can’t players be more like him, well, why can’t every golfer hit a drive like Rory or every cricketer a cover drive like Kohli does. I think the Messi statement is your jumping the shark moment, anyone who though you had even a small clue about football must now surely realise everything you write is all join the dots.

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Post by raycastleunited on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 10:45 am

Diggers wrote:Well, City (a team with Sterling as a key player) had more possession and completed more passes than any other premier league team has. How do they do that if players keep going to ground?
Messi is considered the greatest dribbler, runner on the bakl ever. The guy is a genius. Why can’t players be more like him, well, why can’t every golfer hit a drive like Rory or every cricketer a cover drive like Kohli does. I think the Messi statement is your jumping the shark moment, anyone who though you had even a small clue about football must now surely realise everything you write is all join the dots.


clap clap clap

We should have a hall of fame (shame) thread for legendary comments that need to be stored for posterity instead of buried and lost in a thread.
I think the "why can't other players dribble past defenders like Messi" comment should be straight in at the top.


I'd also have Roller's reworking of the lyrics to "we're up all night to get lucky" as my all time favourite post.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 5:40 pm

Diggers wrote:Well, City (a team with Sterling as a key player) had more possession and completed more passes than any other premier league team has. How do they do that if players keep going to ground?
Messi is considered the greatest dribbler, runner on the bakl ever. The guy is a genius. Why can’t players be more like him, well, why can’t every golfer hit a drive like Rory or every cricketer a cover drive like Kohli does. I think the Messi statement is your jumping the shark moment, anyone who though you had even a small clue about football must now surely realise everything you write is all join the dots.

FFS, someone else bringing up a "Jumping the shark" moment as if that's "a thing" now.

I didn't mean that everyone should have the skill of Messi, obviously that would be ridiculous, I meant, (and I thought you lot had a bit more comprehension that this) that they should not go down like they've been shot by a sniper at the slightest touch. I don't buy that so many players can't stand on their feet under the pressure of the lightest of challenges, whether they lose the ball or not is really irrelevant to my point. If I was a ref (having been tackled enough during football) I know what causes you to fall down and what doesn't. They should be getting cards out more often for this sort of behaviour. If you trip on a kerb you don't jump in the air with your hands outstretched. A dive is pathetically easy to spot.

If a ref is going to give a free kick, he does so by the nature of the tackle, not how theatrical the response to it is.

Now I might not be so sad to spend as much time watching football as some of you lot, but it's pretty clear that the degree of simulation and cheating has reached a stage at which it is ruining the game. Claiming for imaginary fouls, clutching your face, appealing for throw-ins corners etc that don't belong to you, waving imaginary cards, asking for VAR etc ought to be eradicated from the game, which means stronger referees and greater punishment for seeking to gain an advantage through deception.

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Post by beninho on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 5:50 pm

Realist, do you think its only a foul if someone is caught by the tackle?

Have you ever seen a foul not given when a player has played on or not gone down.?

Do you think diving etc is worse now then 5'10'15 years ago?

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Post by Diggers on Wed 22 Aug 2018, 9:51 am

Hmm, what makes someone sadder?
a. A person who watches a sport because they enjoy it.
b. A person who despises a sport but “supposedly” watches it so he can slag it off.
You decide...

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Post by raycastleunited on Wed 22 Aug 2018, 12:01 pm

super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:Well, City (a team with Sterling as a key player) had more possession and completed more passes than any other premier league team has. How do they do that if players keep going to ground?
Messi is considered the greatest dribbler, runner on the bakl ever. The guy is a genius. Why can’t players be more like him, well, why can’t every golfer hit a drive like Rory or every cricketer a cover drive like Kohli does. I think the Messi statement is your jumping the shark moment, anyone who though you had even a small clue about football must now surely realise everything you write is all join the dots.

FFS, someone else bringing up a "Jumping the shark" moment as if that's "a thing" now.

I didn't mean that everyone should have the skill of Messi, obviously that would be ridiculous, I meant, (and I thought you lot had a bit more comprehension that this) that they should not go down like they've been shot by a sniper at the slightest touch. I don't buy that so many players can't stand on their feet under the pressure of the lightest of challenges, whether they lose the ball or not is really irrelevant to my point.  If I was a ref (having been tackled enough during football) I know what causes you to fall down and what doesn't. They should be getting cards out more often for this sort of behaviour. If you trip on a kerb you don't jump in the air with your hands outstretched. A dive is pathetically easy to spot.

If a ref is going to give a free kick, he does so by the nature of the tackle, not how theatrical the response to it is.

Now I might not be so sad to spend as much time watching football as some of you lot, but it's pretty clear that the degree of simulation and cheating has reached a stage at which it is ruining the game. Claiming for imaginary fouls, clutching your face, appealing for throw-ins corners etc that don't belong to you, waving imaginary cards, asking for VAR  etc ought to be eradicated from the game, which means stronger referees and greater punishment for seeking to gain an advantage through deception.

I agree that cheating and simulation is ruining the game.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 9:27 am

super_realist wrote:
Davie wrote:
super_realist wrote:Diggers, you seldom see "evasive action" which doesn't turn into some sort of simulation. Rarely if ever have a seen a person jump over a challenge and simply get up and carry on. Most players will do absolutely anything to try and get a free kick or a decision out of even the slightest touch.

Yet more evidence you don't watch much football - or you only see what you want to see

I see players diving far more often than I see them riding a challenge and carrying on, I also see players try to claim for everything as if that is going to sway a referee. Players should not be allowed to remonstrate and appeal. It should be a yellow card.
This. One thousand times over. And then red cards. Refs (presumably as they get no support from FIFA) are too often spineless in the face of players getting in their faces.
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Post by Diggers on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 9:52 am

Yeah, I think everyone agrees only the captain should talk to the ref, was supposedly meant to be the case at the World Cup but didn’t see it enforced in any way. I don’t think refs are spineless, I largely feel sorry for them, in this age of technology where we see each incident from every angle it’s an impossible task.

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Post by pedro on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 11:39 am

The cheating thing is obviously a bit harder to crack down upon, but the claiming thing should be pretty easy to eradicate. If it the ref is too spineless there should always be the option of retrospective yellow cards or other sanctions.

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Post by Diggers on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 11:50 am

Simulation is a funny one, look at Salah’s pen the other week. Did he go down too easy, for sure, did the defender have 2 goes at him in the box, definitely. I’d have gone down and if I was a manager I’d want my player to go down, especially if he was going nowhere. I’m tmreakly not bothered by those incidents, we’ve always had players who go down easier than others (Sterling isn’t one).
Clear dives are a different story, but I think we are already seeing less of those than a while ago.

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Post by Diggers on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 4:29 pm

Gotta admire Trump’s front. “Why would you impeach me when I’m doing a good job? Everyone will get really poor if you impeach me as the markets will crash.”
Just can’t imagine anyone saying that. Sad thing is it will work, guy is literally Tefal. What’s next, “Why have an election when I’m doing so well, if I lose it will be bad for everyone...”
Scary, scary times.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 6:02 pm

Diggers wrote:Yeah, I think everyone agrees only the captain should talk to the ref, was supposedly meant to be the case at the World Cup but didn’t see it enforced in any way. I don’t think refs are spineless, I largely feel sorry for them, in this age of technology where we see each incident from every angle it’s an impossible task.

On the issue of cheating, funny how when a player scores a goal in the process of being tackled how they are able to stay on their feet or immediately get up to celebrate as if no-one touched them.

About time Refs were given more power. A few games of 4 sendings off for simulation, 5 game ban for diving, or a points deduction for a set amount of dives/appeals in a game would quickly sort it out. Sadly football is just as poor at moving forward as golf is.

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Post by beninho on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 6:15 pm

Refs can't get any blame, its so hard to tell. Is overplaying a foul a simulation? Is diving over a heavy tacke, simulation. Or just a non contact blatent dive.

I don't see an issue with exaggeration and rarely see the blatant no contact dive, its usually noticed anyway.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 6:25 pm

In most cases it's really pretty easy to tell, especially when VAR comes into the game more.

The over-the-top pained facial expression, the theatrical hands up in the air, the jump in the air like a belly flop into a pool, the rolling around, a genuine trip has none of those. Also, the closer it gets to the box the more fake the reaction seems to be, it never happens when the player is 2 yards outside their own box.

At worst action could all be done retrospectively.

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Post by beninho on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 7:10 pm

Action is available retrospectively. But its bloody hard to confirm what's a dive and whats an.over exaggeration. A point you seek to prove by not being able to see the difference, as all the things you mentioned do happen, but usually after a foul or attempted foul. Out and out dives are rare.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 7:17 pm

Surely any sort of exaggeration is unnecessary? Isn't that what causes the confusion in the first place? The referee should be judging the severity of the tackle, not how someone simulates after the event.

A dive and an exaggeration are effectively the same thing, an attempt to fool the referee. What I'm saying is that the result on the defender shouldn't matter. If a player stays on his feet or if he rolls to John O Groat's shouldn't matter. It's whether the tackle is a foul and that is not contingent on whether the player falls or not.

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Post by beninho on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 7:22 pm

If a defender goes in two footed and the attacker jumps out the way and doesn't go.over, is that a foul?

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Post by super_realist on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 7:25 pm

Of course it is. In fact I remember Gascoigne jumped over such a tackle when playing for The Huns and the player (think he was from Motherwell) got a yellow card for the challenge. It's dangerous play, and you don't have to make contact to make a foul. Have you never seen a free kick been given for high feet for example? Are you seriously suggesting that contact has to be made before a foul is given?

I thought you claimed to know about football?

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Post by beninho on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 7:38 pm

My point is how often games carry on if a player doesnt go down. Sometimes its in the best interests of the team to go down and get a free kick or pen rather then.play on.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 7:48 pm

That's not the point you were making at all, clearly a foul doesn't have to make contact to be a foul, there's dangerous play and intent, besides the referee shouldn't even be considering if the player fell over or not, it's whether it was a foul.

How many more goal scoring opportunities might be had if the player actually stayed on their feet? How many people fall over in their own corner area? It's blatant gamesmanship at best and the referee should be able to make a judgement without having to deal with what the "fouled" player does.


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Post by pedro on Thu 23 Aug 2018, 8:07 pm

So we have to blame FA/UEFA/FIFA who stick out the guidelines on how the rules should be enforced / interpreted.

They used to say that tackle from behind is always red, but seem to have gone away from that. The same about always yellow for pulling the shirt.

I’d like to see VAR used restrospectively for cheating, diving and claiming. Or even after the game is over.  If you just catch a few players once in a while I’m sure it’ll be preventive and reduce the cheating significantly.

One good thing about VAR in the WC was that there was effectively no pushing or cheating in the pen area, at least by the defending team. (A bad thing was of course that the use wasn’t consistent.) But my point is that the mere risk of retrospective action and the occasional punishment of a cheater has a preventive effect on the players.

In some sports there’s no such thing as cheating or claiming simply because it’s cracked down upon. Why not in football when nobody wants to look at it?

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Post by JAS on Fri 24 Aug 2018, 2:18 pm

pedro wrote:So we have to blame FA/UEFA/FIFA who stick out the guidelines on how the rules should be enforced / interpreted.

They used to say that tackle from behind is always red, but seem to have gone away from that. The same about always yellow for pulling the shirt.

I’d like to see VAR used restrospectively for cheating, diving and claiming. Or even after the game is over.  If you just catch a few players once in a while I’m sure it’ll be preventive and reduce the cheating significantly.

One good thing about VAR in the WC was that there was effectively no pushing or cheating in the pen area, at least by the defending team. (A bad thing was of course that the use wasn’t consistent.) But my point is that the mere risk of retrospective action and the occasional punishment of a cheater has a preventive effect on the players.

In some sports there’s no such thing as cheating or claiming simply because it’s cracked down upon. Why not in football when nobody wants to look at it?

You mean like Golf in recent years where viewers have phoned in to “report” cheating. Imagine the phones going mental after MOTD and results in some matches being annulled or bookings/sending offs being rescinded etc.
Unfortunately we now now live in a world where truth isn’t necessarily truth according to the brief of the leader of the “free world”. If truth can’t be clear cut these days then things like cheating have no chance of being definitively identified in every instance.

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Post by Diggers on Mon 27 Aug 2018, 5:39 pm

Sat down thinking I’d watch a bit of US Open tennis, couldn’t find it, remembered one of the online companies has the rights. Effing annoying and is only going to happen more often for more events.

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Post by NedB-H on Mon 27 Aug 2018, 10:35 pm

Mourinho gone by the weekend?

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Post by Diggers on Mon 27 Aug 2018, 11:00 pm

Here’s hoping, the special one act wore thin a long time ago. Zidane in by Thursday?

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Post by pedro on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 12:44 am

Could have been 5-0. Defence looks dodgy, midfield shallow. Pogba is still not the player everybody wants him to be.

Suprised Alli didn’t dive when De Gea tried to tackle him after Lindelofs blunder...

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Post by Diggers on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 10:19 am

Just seen his press conference meltdown, he really is a massive cockwomble.

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Post by wiretapper on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 11:22 am

Diggers wrote:Sat down thinking I’d watch a bit of US Open tennis, couldn’t find it, remembered one of the online companies has the rights. Effing annoying and is only going to happen more often for more events.

I know Diggers it is getting silly now but to be fair to Amazon they have pushed the boat out in terms of commentary, on-site analysis, interviews, ex-players & pundits etc unlike Eleven Sports who look like they broadcast and commentate from a Portakabin in a Milton Keynes pub car-park.

I have Amazon Prime anyway and to be honest I probably wouldn't have got it just for the US Open but if you are really into tennis it is probably worth getting the free trial at least - just remember to cancel before it expires. It'll be interesting to see what they do with their Premier League coverage next year.

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Post by wiretapper on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 11:24 am

As for Jose demanding respect because he has won three PL titles, Wenger had three titles, how much respect did Jose show him?

I also like to think that Jose has had that line ready and waiting for years for when Wenger eventually left Laugh

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Post by Diggers on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 12:03 pm

wiretapper wrote:
Diggers wrote:Sat down thinking I’d watch a bit of US Open tennis, couldn’t find it, remembered one of the online companies has the rights. Effing annoying and is only going to happen more often for more events.

I know Diggers it is getting silly now but to be fair to Amazon they have pushed the boat out in terms of commentary, on-site analysis, interviews, ex-players & pundits etc unlike Eleven Sports who look like they broadcast and commentate from a Portakabin in a Milton Keynes pub car-park.

I have Amazon Prime anyway and to be honest I probably wouldn't have got it just for the US Open but if you are really into tennis it is probably worth getting the free trial at least - just remember to cancel before it expires. It'll be interesting to see what they do with their Premier League coverage next year.

Actually I’ve got Amazon Prine as well so can watch it! Cheers Wire.

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Post by NedB-H on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 12:29 pm

I have a full sports TV package, BT and Sky, but don’t have Prime (as far as I can remember). The problem with this new online model is that it completely overlooks the “casual” sports fan. I enjoy most sports and like Diggers would flick over to the tennis if it was on. But I’m not enough of a tennis fan to actively pay solely for the US Open. Most people are probably similar with the USPGA, they’d watch it on a Sunday night if it was on but not if they had to pay extra for it. I feel that sports shifting to this new ppv model are missing out on ever attracting any new “casual“ fans; as well as shafting those of us who like most sports to an extent, as opposed to being obsessives over a single sport. I suspect most of the sports viewing population are in the former category too.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 12:42 pm

I know it’s kinda lazy but I don’t want to flick from my TV channels onto my Apple TV to stream my phone onto the TV. And I refuse to watch TV on a tablet or phone, I’m far too blind for that. Technology should make life easy, not complicate it by looking for a provider and then a way to watch that event that suits your preferences.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 28 Aug 2018, 2:05 pm

Diggers

Have you not got a smart TV?  You can use all online stuff like Prime, Netflix, Now etc on them.  Or if you have a ps4 (and I assume xbox) you can download the same apps.  If you have skygo+ you can also get that on a ps4.




Unless you are on the megabucks of folks like super_realist getting access to all the TV sports subscriptions is pretty much unaffordable.  How much would it cost per month to get sky, BT, prime and that new one the PGA was on?
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