Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

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Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by boss_cat2 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 8:01 pm

The start of the Pro (14) conference system last year, Glasgow played Edinburgh 3 times, twice away and once at home. Glasgow fans were promised that every 2nd year we would have 2 home games. However the SRU and GW management have renaged on this promise. They want to take advantage of the supposed success of their flagship "Silver Saturday" and repeat this every year.

We believe this gives Edinburgh an unfair advantage over the other teams, and from our point of view, GW are conversely disadvantaged.

If you agree please joint our petition and spread the word.


https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/glasgow-warriors-home-game-v-edinburgh-should-be-at-scotstoun

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by TJ on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 9:16 pm

Really? Glasgow will be disadvantaged by having to play 45 miles from home in front of a big crowd? I was there this year and Glasgow fans drowned out Edinburgh. super Saturday is a great showcase for Scottish rugby and there was 3 times the capacity of scotstoun there. So no - stop whining

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by boss_cat2 on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 9:42 pm

My god a discovery, we have found "an Edinburgh fan", most people thought the species were extinct.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by TJ on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 11:20 pm

I don't see where the disadvantage is. Glasgow fans drowned out the Edinburgh fans and there is hardly any great hassle in travelling 45 miles.

Wheras super Saturday is a great showcase for scottish rugby and I bet there were more Glasgow fans there than can get into scotstoun.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 8:22 am

boss_cat2 wrote:My god a discovery, we have found "an Edinburgh fan", most people thought the species were extinct.

Plenty on here OK

As for the OP, I do feel for the Glasgow fans having to trek to Murrayfield (and get beaten more often than not! Yahoo ) but you can see why the SRU want to do it, given how successful Silver Saturday was last year and the size of the crowd. When you're getting 3 times as many fans at Murrayfield than you would at Scotstoun it makes financial sense. Whether it makes rugby sense or is within the spirit (and laws) of the league is a different question.

What is true though is that it has become a bit of a PR disaster which the SRU should have seen coming (they do have so called media professionals on their books supposedly), and they could have done a lot more to make this more appealing to Glasgow fans. Announcing this at the same time as upping the price of a ST for one less game really wasn't the best idea.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 9:53 am

I get Glasgow’s fans annoyance at this, but from a financial point of view it makes total sense, and it (in theory) should mean Glasgow get extra investment due to the increased finances coming into the SRU, vs what they would get if the game was at Scotstoun. Same with Edinburgh.

I think next season (19/20) this should be more palatable as Murrayfield won’t be Edinburgh’s home ground (but I doubt some will see it that way) as it’ll be along the same lines as super Saturday or whatever it’s called that Welsh Rugby do, at the Millennium stadium.

In terms of advantage to Edinburgh, possibly, but I think that’s largely the issue with having 3 1872 games. One team is going to have an advantage, granted it was Edinburgh this season and will be Edinburgh next, but the majority of Glasgow players are used to paying at Murrayfield, they will have a decent sized crowd behind them and really it shouldn’t matter to the players.

The real issue is the fans, who have to travel through to the game, thankfully the KO time is being brought forward apparently, so fans aren’t having train and transport issues that some experienced this time round. Plus they’re season tickets are going up. Which again makes sense financially, but it’s not going to go down well with many, as who likes paying more for the same thing, but sadly it’s the way these things tend to go. I fully expect next season once Edinburgh move to a smaller ground the price of our STs will increase to a similar level.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Eejit on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 9:59 am

If it wasn’t this issue the Scottish rugby social media brigade would get upset about something.

I agree with posters above in saying that silver Saturday is an excellent piece of business for Scottish rugby though they should perhaps have planned for the outcry afterwards, and it’s clear there never was a strategy in place to deal with it.

With the exception of Leinsterbot 3000 who maimed everybody the second half of this season (exception being the mighty Glasgow who beat them in November with that Niko/Grigg worldy) the Pro14 as a league is probably the most open in the world at the moment with four or five sides with a realistic chance of winning the whole thing, and another two or three in with a shout on a good day. Whether it’s the luvvies in the library or Leinster at the RDS to win the whole thing you need to be taking points against big teams on the road so having one neutral game is entirely inconsequential as Glasgow should be beating Edinburgh anywhere in the world if they ever want to lift the trophy again.

Many Scottish posters support one team but want the other to do well. Me personally, I think the only good thing to come out of Edinburgh is the M8 back to Glasgow but if Edinburgh do well this season it won’t be to do with an extra home game, rather with them having a world class Coach, a well balanced team with a big pack and a midfield that can control a game properly for the first time since Laidlaw left who can bring in big time backs like DVDM and Kinghorn into the game.

Bring on Silver Saturday I say. I’ll probably go this year as it looked like a great day.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by BigGee on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 12:01 pm

I tend to agree with most of the comments so far, despite being a Glasgow fan, I would be happy for this arrangement to continue for the greater benefit of Scottish Rugby, albeit with a few tweaks, such as a better kick off time.

I don't think that Glasgow are massively put off by playing at Murrayfield. It does not involve any significant travelling and they know the ground and usually have more fans there as well, certainly nosier ones.

We did not lose this year because it was in Murrayfield, but because we did not play very well!

Anyway, Glasgow probably prefer being the victims and it may spur them on!

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Pat_Mustard on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 12:15 pm

Unless I've missed something, isn't there a very obvious solution which allows Edinburgh to play at home on Silver Saturday, and Glasgow to have two home games?

I've come out of retirement to post that so I hope someone at the SRU is reading.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 12:24 pm

Pat - Edinburgh's 'home' game has always been at Murrayfield (even when we were technically at Myreside) because it always gets a big crowd around the Christmas holidays. The current way means 2 games at Murrayfield and 1 at Scotstoun - around 55k fans total, whereas if Glasgow have 2 home game it would be around 40k fans total.

15k less fans means less money for the SRU, hence why they do it.

I it would also mean 2 games in a row at Scotstoun over Christmas and New Year which would be a bit strange.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by tigertattie on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 1:27 pm

Got to agree with Pat

In years where Glasgow are supposed to have the two home games against us then the calendar should be tweaked. Something along the lines of

Even years = Edinburgh have 2 home games
Odd years Glasgow have 2 home games

Have a season opener at Scotstoun, then a Christmas game at Scotstoun with end of season showdown at Murrayfield.

Then the following year is the reverse

Season opener at Murreyfield/Edinburgh's new stadium, a Christmas game at Scotstoun then Silver Sat at Murrayfield.

Sure it means Edinburgh miss out on a festive match but we're getting the season finisher at home in it's place every year!
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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Pat_Mustard on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 1:51 pm

I thought the justification was about maintaining the Silver Saturday event, which I think is great and worth continuing. I had thought the fans on twitter etc were overreacting. But having thought about it, if they have decided not to even things up earlier in the season, purely on the basis of gate receipts, then I'm not so sure. I do think it's important that home advantages balance up over time. I think if it's going to be unbalanced going forward then that's a bit strange too.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Eejit on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 2:24 pm

Pat_Mustard wrote:I thought the justification was about maintaining the Silver Saturday event, which I think is great and worth continuing. I had thought the fans on twitter etc were overreacting. But having thought about it, if they have decided not to even things up earlier in the season, purely on the basis of gate receipts, then I'm not so sure. I do think it's important that home advantages balance up over time. I think if it's going to be unbalanced going forward then that's a bit strange too.

Trade the third match for the Edinburgh front row!

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by tigertattie on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 3:15 pm

You've also got to look at it from the perspective of the other Pro 14 clubs!

Imagine the scenario next season, It's Edinburgh and Ulster fighting it out for the 3rd place in the conference. Joint on points going into the last game, Ulster have to win away at mid table dwelling Connacht and will be looking for a bonus point (not so easy away from home). Meanwhile, Edinburgh have to face a mid table dwelling Glasgow in what should be an away game but it's actually going to be played at Murrayfield!

Can't see Ulster being too happy about that!
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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Tramptastic on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 4:24 pm

As somebody who grew up in the ar$e end of nowhere I've got an incredible lack of sympathy for people from the central belt who moan about having to travel for something

God forbid you have access to regular public transport!

"How dare they move a gig from Glasgow to Edinburgh, I'll have to spend 45 minutes on a train that runs every 15 minutes"

Meanwhile, us inbreds from the backwaters have to consider any event is a weekend away (meaning the cost is through the roof) OR attend the event for a grand total of an hour before the last bus/train at 8pm departs.

With regards to the "Edinburgh have extra home support giving them an unfair advantage" line of thinking I can honestly tell you that at any derby game the glasgow fans are far louder and there was an interview with Hoggy not to long ago where he claims the scotland players at glasgow don't see it as an away game as they play at murrayfield so regulary!

Is it too difficult to suggest that Glasgow players played poorly as result of a loss of form/Edinburgh being on form? Nah... must be playing in Edinburgh scared the sh*te out of them Smile Whistle

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by tigertattie on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 4:39 pm

6 out of 8 Tramp, 6 out of 8! useless weegies!

however, you backwater folk can't moan about the price of traveling to things! The extra travel cost is more than dealt with by the fact that you can buy a 5 bed detached mansion down your way for the price of a one bedroom hovel on the 3rd floor of a stinky block of flats in Edinburgh!
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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 4:42 pm

As a Londoner I'm not going to accept anyone complaining about the cost of living!!! My rent on a 1 bed flat is 3 times what my mortgage was for a 3 bed house in the oustskirts of Edinburgh! picard

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by tigertattie on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 4:49 pm

I like looking at the houses/flats for sale at times.

2 bedroom flat for sale on Rothesay Terrace, Edinburgh = £795,000

2 bedroom flat for sale on Earl Street, Hawick = £25,000

You could get a taxi into Edinburgh for the rest of your days with a saving like that!
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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Kingshu on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 5:00 pm

Why are there 3 1872 cup games?

Why not have 2 normal league games then a one off 1872 cup game each year (profits split), drawn and holder keeps it, neutral(ish) venue.

The SRU would prob want it in Murryfield, but there is a possibility of having it in Aberdeen, Perth or New York, Chicago, Spain maybe Hampden one year, while Edinburgh are still in Murryfield?

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Tramptastic on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 10:49 am

Kingshu wrote:Why are there 3 1872 cup games?

Why not have 2 normal league games then a one off 1872 cup game each year (profits split), drawn and holder keeps it, neutral(ish) venue.

The SRU would prob want it in Murryfield, but there is a possibility of having it in Aberdeen, Perth or New York, Chicago, Spain maybe Hampden one year, while Edinburgh are still in Murryfield?

It's all about that Elitist central belt money - we aren't allowed nice things outside of Edinburgh or Glasgow boxing

I'd have no problem with them doing it at Celtic Park but silver saturday, where the SRU host all the amateur cup finals (womens and men) at Murrayfield followed by the the derby match is a really good link between the clubs and the pro teams

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Tramptastic on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 10:50 am

Saying that, why dont the SRU do a game at Scotstoun, a game at Celtic Park and a game at Murrayfield? a home game for each and a "neutral" venue

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Eejit on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 11:11 am

Tramptastic wrote:Saying that, why dont the SRU do a game at Scotstoun, a game at Celtic Park and a game at Murrayfield? a home game for each and a "neutral" venue

I assume because they own Murrayfield and would have to pay for the use of other venues.

That’s not saying it’s a bad idea and I would be completely for it, even though for roundball reasons, a game at Celtic Park would be very confusing for me.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Brendan on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 1:37 pm

Maybe with the number of Edinburgh teams in the Super 6s, the SRU just thought they could give it to Edinburgh.

On a more serious note I don't think anyone outside of Scotland will care.  The Welsh have their Judgement Day and I don't think any team has complained about the Blues having an unfair advantage.

What they should do is treat it as a home game for both teams.  If you are a ST you get in for free.  Don't see any problem from an Irish point of view as long as both teams try (unlike a certain team did in Glasgow this year)

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 1:44 pm

Brendan wrote:Maybe with the number of Edinburgh teams in the Super 6s the SRU just thought they could give it to Edinburgh.

On a more serious note I don't think anyone outside of Scotland will care.  The Welsh have their Judgement Day and I don't think any team has complained about the Blues having an unfair advantage.

What they should do is treat it as a home game for both teams.  If you are a ST you get in for free.  Don't see any problem from an Irish point of view as long as both teams try (unlike a certain team did in Glasgow this year)

That's probably the most sensible suggestion I've heard on this - make the game part of the Glasgow and Edinburgh ST then it really will be a 'neutral' game. If it is part of the Edinbrugh ST but not Glasgow I don't see how the SRU can call it neutral.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Brendan on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 2:51 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Brendan wrote:Maybe with the number of Edinburgh teams in the Super 6s the SRU just thought they could give it to Edinburgh.

On a more serious note I don't think anyone outside of Scotland will care.  The Welsh have their Judgement Day and I don't think any team has complained about the Blues having an unfair advantage.

What they should do is treat it as a home game for both teams.  If you are a ST you get in for free.  Don't see any problem from an Irish point of view as long as both teams try (unlike a certain team did in Glasgow this year)

That's probably the most sensible suggestion I've heard on this - make the game part of the Glasgow and Edinburgh ST then it really will be a 'neutral' game. If it is part of the Edinbrugh ST but not Glasgow I don't see how the SRU can call it neutral.

It also means both fans get 11 home games for their season ticket

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by tigertattie on Thu 14 Jun 2018, 11:32 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Brendan wrote:Maybe with the number of Edinburgh teams in the Super 6s the SRU just thought they could give it to Edinburgh.

On a more serious note I don't think anyone outside of Scotland will care.  The Welsh have their Judgement Day and I don't think any team has complained about the Blues having an unfair advantage.

What they should do is treat it as a home game for both teams.  If you are a ST you get in for free.  Don't see any problem from an Irish point of view as long as both teams try (unlike a certain team did in Glasgow this year)

That's probably the most sensible suggestion I've heard on this - make the game part of the Glasgow and Edinburgh ST then it really will be a 'neutral' game. If it is part of the Edinbrugh ST but not Glasgow I don't see how the SRU can call it neutral.

As Admin Boy you should know that this kind of nonsense is unacceptable! How dare someone use sense on this board!

Down with this sort of thing!!!
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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Eejit on Fri 15 Jun 2018, 2:34 pm

Other than the enormous, nigh on crippling loss of revenue for having the event at Scotstoun, does anyone else have serious concerns regarding Scotstoun’s ability to host an 11 hour festival of rugby? At least at Murrayfield there are pubs, supermarkets and restaurants a few minutes up the road.

Think this is a case of people not thinking through the issue properly.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by boss_cat2 on Fri 15 Jun 2018, 9:50 pm

Eejit wrote:Other than the enormous, nigh on crippling loss of revenue for having the event at Scotstoun, does anyone else have serious concerns regarding Scotstoun’s ability to host an 11 hour festival of rugby? At least at Murrayfield there are pubs, supermarkets and restaurants a few minutes up the road.

Think this is a case of people not thinking through the issue properly.

It does not have to be in Scotstoun, they could hire Celtic park or Hampden and keep it in Glasgow.

This would be a fantastic opportunity to get more Glasgow  football fans interested in rugby and specifically GW.  Most football fans love sport, however football fans in general appear to see rugby as an eletist sport.  Why not use this as an opportunity to help break the stereotypical views and show piece a " Silver Saturday" event here in Glasgow.

As Scotstoun  is generally sold out, it is not possible to encourage new drop in fans to Glasgow games.  However, with the right marketing, and perhaps with a new partnership with Glasgow Celtic or SFA, we could tap into the football market and maxime attendance and get even more than the current 25,000 ceiling.

This rediculous decision on SS occurs directly after the last SRU gaff over  the super six franchise awards.  It's hard to ignore what happened with the super six franchise awards.  Many of you may not be aware but  the the SRU's Franchise guidance explicitly stated that there will be at least one franchise from each of the country’s four regions – and no more than two from any single area. So why  were three of the six franchises awarded to Edinburgh clubs and none to Glasgow.

This award and now Silvergate together with the disparity in proposed ticket pricing for each club only essentuates a growing belief that our governing body has a bias to all things east of Harthill!


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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by Eejit on Sat 16 Jun 2018, 12:36 am

So, you're putting on a marquee event that's supposed to be the pinnacle of club rugby in Scotland with finalists from all over the country. You can host this event:
a) In the stadium you already own. The stadium that is the home of Scottish rugby and one that has hosted European knockout rugby, a Pro14 final and the site of the 1990 Grand Slam, possibly the highest award ever achieved by our country in this sport. Or
b) Hire one of two football stadiums that are falling apart.

The Super Six decision was indeed disappointing for Hawks, but the process was independent and the clubs chosen on the strength or their bid. It could be the others were just better - hard to stomach I know.

I find it very disturbing that fellow Glasgow fans are going straight to some sort of east coast conspiracy theory rather understanding that it is clearly a business decision. It's a bit like these folk who believe there are aliens kept in Area 51. The principle of occam's razor is best in these situations - no one is out to get us.

I understand the XVIth Warrior and other fan groups are meeting with the Warriors and SRU at some point to talk about this. Given the petition still hasn't hit its target after nearly two weeks I hope they realise that not all Glasgow fans agree with this ridiculous overreaction. I love my city and my team, but not at the cost of common bloody sense.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by boss_cat2 on Sat 16 Jun 2018, 8:13 am

From what I have read your view is very much in the minority from GW fans.

You also miss the main point, Glasgow lose a home game which puts league position at risk. Fans were also promised two home games and this has been renaged.

If the SRU want their end of season marquee event at Murrayfield (the site of the 1990 grand slam!!), no one is stopping them, so long as we get our promised two home games.

What football stadiums are falling apart? Do you know this for sure, have you been to them recently?

I find it exceedly disappointing that a supposed Glasgow fan thinks it's "common sense" for 7000 odd fans to troop over to Edinburgh, paying £20 odd quid for the privelage of travelling to some stupid combined club/Pro14 event that most did not want to see, nor did they want to get home at 12:30 having to pay expensive taxi fairs from Queen Street to the suburbs as there no trains were running.

Common sense, I ask you?

PS there was no target for the petition.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by BigGee on Sat 16 Jun 2018, 1:05 pm

There would be no sense hiring a football stadium in Glasgow for this event, it would not be cheap, we would not gain any merchandising opportunities and likely the SRU would lose money on the event, which I would rather went back into the Scottish game.

I think if you asked the average club player where they would rather play, MF or Celtic Park, the result is a no brainer.

If we are going to run with the SS concept and the first year was very promising, MF is really the only option as a venue. It is a celebration of Scottish rugby at the end of the day.

How to square that with Glasgow losing a home game, I really don't know the answer to that and it may not really be possible at the end of the day. Sometimes a sacrifice is needed though for the good of the game in general.

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Re: Will Edinburgh's extra home game (Silver Saturday) give them an unfair advantage in Pro14

Post by boss_cat2 on Sat 16 Jun 2018, 2:32 pm

Ok some are taking the pragmatic view based on a theoretical large increase in eevenue. However the SRU should pay our travel!! If they assumed this theoretical allowance in their calc circa ( £20 X 5000) for our travel through, or do you think it is acceptable for Glasgow fans to effectively subsidise this event. An event which many of our fans do not want to see?

If they/ you want SS, do it at the Edinburgh home game and schedule our two home games first. If GW/SRU want to go for a bigger stadium for those, then consider the two bigger stadiums.

Alternatively schedule one near the SS event in April and have 3/4 home games with expanded stadium up to 10,000 or 12,000 like was done when we had the 7's.

MF on SS was a rubbish experience, atmosphere was poor, getting there and back, just for 1 game took me seven hours with the kids, it cost me a small fortune in food drink and travel and I did not give a jot for the other games. I will not do it again.

I suspect if this goes ahead, then attendance will be down as many GW's will not attend.

In terms of revenue, note Edinburgh ST now get in free to OUR home game, also their kids get in free also. We got one free adult per ST ticket and I paid for kids, admitedly this was only a few quid each.

But add the pottential numbers and I do wonder how much extra revenue they actually get. Perhaps we might find out after the SRU meeting with the XV1 warrior's if someone asks.

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