PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

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PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 13 Jun 2018, 16:16

First topic message reminder :

1).It seems there's as much anticipation this week to see how the USGA has set up Shinnecock Hills for the US Open as there is to see how Tiger Woods does.
Everything else secondary.
Not sure that does justice to Shinnecock, which is traditionally one of the stars of the USGA's US Open circuit of courses.
It'll be the first visit here since the fiasco of 2004 when the USGA was presumably thrilled with a final round scoring average of about 78 . . . . . . until they were overwhelmed by an avalanche of richly deserved negative publicity about dried out/dead greens and incompatible winds.

2).So they brought in Coore & Crenshaw to prepare the lay-out for 2018's golfers - 500 yards added to the course, wider (up to 40 yards) fairways and some redoing of a few of the greens. All this overshadowed by ill-fated experiments at Chambers Bay, in 2015, and Erin Hills last year. So the USGA is on the spot this week. Not so much Shinnecock though as they're already assured of a return visit in 2026.

3).Shinnecock, way out on New York State's Long Island, is by most accounts one of the first five golf clubs in the USA (tho' Royal Montreal and Royal Quebec predated it during the early 1870's, in that territory north of the border now referred to, presumably, as that "special place in hell" by White House staff); some "golf" clubs in South Carolina & Georgia existed earlier without much evidence they actually played golf.
In 1895 Shinnecock was one of the five "Founding Clubs" (clubs in Boston, Chicago, Newport, RI, and New York) of the USGA which held its first US Open at Newport GC, then at Shinnecock the following year. Then not again until Ray Floyd won a thriller in 1986.

4).A pair of Willies laid out the course, Davis produced 12 holes followed by Dunn who added 9 more and integrated the two efforts into an 18-holer. Charles B.McDonald (National Golf Links and others) and the prolific Seth Raynor (Fishers Island, Chicago GC, Waialae CC and dozens in between) upgraded the course and Willie Flynn (Merion etc) reconfigured the 18 holes roughly resembling what we see today.
Coore and Crenshaw have stretched the course to almost 7,500 yards - it looks to have been pretty dry on Long Island so hopefully there'll be some penal rough otherwise this week promises to be a bombers paradise. A golfer of 1995 winner Corey Pavin's length need not apply, though a Retief Goosen profile, hits it far enough and with a brilliant putting week, will be competitive. (Pity Retief didn't receive an invitation.)

5).Given that foreward, how does that help us pick a winner this week?
I'd start with the world's Top ten, add a couple, eliminate one or two others and roll the dice.

6).Dustin? If he's playing at his best, he can't be beaten! Hasn't been out of the Top 20 in a strokeplay event since last September, but not keen on him playing in Woods's group, the only reservation.
Thomas: Don't fancy him here, no particular reason, just don't find him as convincing as his wins might suggest.
Rose: Great chance, though his links form hasn't been that great this century. But hits it far enough and plots his way around as well as anyone. Seemingly a great caddie relationship.
Spieth: Course management great, but driving accuracy still questionable and lost his magic touch on the greens.
Rahm: Seems to have gone off the boil - may win a Major one day, but not this week.
Rory: Under the radar, but perhaps justifiably so. Too inconsistent for me, still not keen on his caddie situation.
Fowler: Wins on the PGA Tour less that 2% of the time; too good not to improve that, but doubt it'll be this week.
Day: Like Rory, don't fancy his caddie deal, but has all the proverbial tools to win. Fitness, mental & physical always a ?
Koepka: Playing well; can he be the first to successfully "defend" since Curtis Strange a generation or two ago? Wouldn't be surprised.
Matsuyama: Unconvincing since his injury, no Tour Top 3's since August, but wouldn't be surprised to see him somewhere on the leaderboard.

7).Best of the rest?
Best Aussie: Leishman - so difficult to predict, but must have a great chance if the wind blows a bit.
Best Saffer: tie between Grace & King Louis, two guys who seem to elevate their game in Majors.
Best Cont European: Stenson: Why not, if he's in the mood?
Best GB&I: Poults: Just got a feeling! Also like Lowry to have a decent week.
Best of the rest of the US: Kooch & Duf.
Lots of good e.w. options there.

8).Phil & Tiger: Would love to see Mickelson win a US Open, but rather feel his time has passed. Woods is ten years removed from his Torrey Pines heroics, but the course looks as if it could be set up in his favour. SkyBet says 16/1 against him so could be worth an e.w. punt, but don't see him winning.

9).Fox will be broadcasting this week and the best bet of the week is that Joe Buck will make us miss Jim Nantz before the first hour is up.
Shane O'Donoghue will no doubt try to match him in the verbal diarrhea stakes, but hopefully Zinger and Faxon can rein them in. Ken Brown will be on the course but, on US TV, always sounds as if he's got socks in his mouth - but a great asset if they can fix his audio.
Fox also has the World Cup, almost enough to make one fly east for the next six weeks.

10).I hope they get the course set up right so that golf can be the winner. The weather should be ideal, dry, mild, with some breeze but nothing too severe, enough to allow the course to play as nature intended, firm and fast without going ott.
Don't much care who wins but trust it will be because of great golf, not because the USGA tried to be too clever with the course.  
And reveal that Shinnecock is the true star of the week.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by owen10ozzy on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 01:28

So from the rather more muted conversation today I am guessing that barely anyone enjoyed the golf served up by this major today. Butch said on Thursday afternoon that he was concerned that the way they set it up would just become more and more ridiculous as it went on.

Will dig out the whole Mickelson thing tomorrow and see what that was all about. Case of roll the dice and see what happens tomorrow for everyone basically. Those last few groups going out could be in for some carnage golf if the weather holds, 26 degrees by around 2 so those greens are going to be painful for the latter starters!

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 01:31

Interesting that the two pros with the best streaks of consecutive cuts in Majors both made this week's cut.

Who are they?

Clue:
One has 27 personal consecutive cuts but has not played every Major.

The other just made his 16th, but he too has missed one or two events along the way.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by owen10ozzy on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 01:43

Steve Stricker is one....not sure of the other..

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 01:50

Stricker has the 27, which I'd say is pretty extraordinary considering he's 51 years old.
Who's next??!!

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 02:01

Interesting stat from prince drac:
Scoring averages from those who made the cut:

Round 1: 73.66
Round 2: 71.39
Round 3: 75.33

USGA outdid themselves. Hate the sycophantic way FOX big up the jerks who set the course up. Typical of FOX though.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Plunky on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 02:34

I thought FOX did a lousy job with the us women's open. Joe Buck seemed to have no idea how to pronounce some of the names including  ariya  jutanugarn -- the winner after a two hole aggregate playoff.  During the two hole playoff he and azinger  made it sound as if she had no chance after the first hole ("how will she get over this loss ?") etc.   She went on to win.  Plus at one point they mocked her for applauding her opponents shot.   Somebody must have said something to them about that, because all of a sudden after she won they became complimentary about her sportsmanship.  Julie inkster was on the team too but didn't have much to say.  The regular team of Karen Stupples and Tom Abbott at least know what they're talking about.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by beninho on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 08:49

+2/+3 was a good score. Rose and Koepka shot those and were some of the last out. A couple of pins may have been a bit dicey, though Rose birdied 15 by playing it well. But players just don't seem able to alter how they play, ignore par, and be sensible. The courses protection is the weather warm and windy makes it difficult and thats what happened, last year the wind didn't blow, the course was dominated and the open was slated.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by dynamark on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 09:17

Phil has taken the lid off the worm can.
Ive only seen that clip in isolation but I'm thinking it may have been to make a point to the officials,
Approach putt looked very quick and always missing with some speed if it didn't go.
He may have already made up his mind what was coming next.
They will have to really ease off the course set up today but its same as usual for the US open

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by puligny on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 10:25

A straw poll of suggested additions last night predictably had windmills at No1, but a croc with a hole at both ends was surprisingly popular.
Still leaves this evening free!

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by dynamark on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 10:33

The course name is now Shinnecock Hills on the Greens

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by sirbenson on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 12:04

Brooks is the one with 16 cuts in a row made in which he has played in majors I think!

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 12:19

sirbenson wrote:Brooks is the one with 16 cuts in a row made in which he has played in majors I think!

Yup! Wouldn't have guessed it meself - guinness guinness clap clap

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Diggers on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 12:37

Anyone as far back as +8 or 9 still on with a chance?

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 12:37

Was hoping to switch my computer on this morning to the news that Phil Mickelson had withdrawn from the US Open.
Or at least that the USGA had introduced a local rule to dissuade others from pulling such an unsportsmanlike stunt.
No news on either front yet.
Too bad.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by I'm never wrong on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 13:47

kwinigolfer wrote:Was hoping to switch my computer on this morning to the news that Phil Mickelson had withdrawn from the US Open.

Agree with you on this Kwini.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Diggers on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 14:51

I though that the Phil thing was pretty funny myself. Golf can be so up it's own backside over rules and etiquette that it was quite refreshing to see something so comical. That said he should probably have been DQ'd, I'd imagine he was fully expecting to be. It shouldn't though be seen as something that even vaguely tarnished what has been a stellar career.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by I'm never wrong on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 15:05

Just seen a Twitter post. Someone suggested that Phil should've declared the ball unplayable after it came to rest and tried the putt again. Could've ended up with a 7. Ifs, buts and maybe's again. Needed to think of all the scenarios in a split second.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by navyblueshorts on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 15:09

I'm never wrong wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Was hoping to switch my computer on this morning to the news that Phil Mickelson had withdrawn from the US Open.

Agree with you on this Kwini.
Nah. FIGJAM would never do that. He's a piece of work, and always will be. To be fair to him though, it's the USGA that've dropped the ball.
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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 16:11

In case you missed this announcement from the USGA before the round started


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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 16:25

Phil won’t WD because that would make his protest pointless. I’m 99% confident he’s calling the USGA’s bluff on a DQ.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 17:10

GPB wrote:In case you missed this announcement from the USGA before the round started



Can't imagine why they sent out that ridiculously wordy announcement.
All they really needed to say was, "USGA here, we're doing our job".

Some scores out there today - but if someone comes thru' the pack from four or five strokes back, a lot of top players will have to screw up for even a 65 to win.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 17:28

Other benefits from finishing well include:
Top 4: Exempt for 2019 Masters
Top 10: Tee time at Pebble Beach next June.
#plentytoplayfor

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 17:57

6 Englishmen in the Top Ten and ties; wouldn't imagine it'll stay that way, but a good sign nevertheless.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by beninho on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 19:48

They've turned it into the long island pga tour stop. Its already worse then yesterday for a us open. Massive bottle job by usga. Now they've ruined it.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 19:54

If fatprick wins this golf is dead.
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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by beninho on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 20:06

I enjoyed the us open. Then they dumbed it down. Butch Harmon is fricking useless.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Be_the_ball on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 20:15

Tommy Fleetwood, on fire! That man can play golf.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by I'm never wrong on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 20:20

McLaren wrote:If fatprick wins this golf is dead.
Any particular reason you don't like Reed Mac?

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 21:23

I kinda like the way the set-up is working today, bad shots punished and good shots rewarded; isn't that how it's supposed to be.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by blisteringblue on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 21:52

Tommy Tommy Tommy, leaders starting to wobble on the back 9. Sky graphic said Brooks was +6 for back 9 for the week. Really don't want Reed either, just can't take to him but he can't stay out the rough at the moment.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Be_the_ball on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 22:07

Tommy should keep himself loose, he may have more golf to play.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Be_the_ball on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 23:05

Straight into the heart of the green on 17, odds on for Koepka now... Hats off!

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 23:22

Koepka absolutely choked that approach to 18 but a massively lucky bounce means he’s pretty much certain to win. When it’s your day!

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Be_the_ball on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 23:30

Back to back US Opens, congrats Brooks Koepka!

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 23:50

Congrats Koepka. Holed a mile of putts on the back nine.

Shade over 4 hours too?

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 00:02

Born Slippy wrote:Koepka absolutely choked that approach to 18 but a massively lucky bounce means he’s pretty much certain to win. When it’s your day!
It just bounced off the grandstand? Can’t see how that was lucky or could have ended up worse?

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 00:03

Well done Koepka!

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 00:10

kwinigolfer wrote:If the USGA's goal is not to embarrass the best players in the world, but to identify them, they failed.
Bunch of stuck up wallies.
Decent final leaderboard I’d say. And much in line with our fantasy game predictions.
Yes there were a few bad pins in Rd3 but what the USGA challenged was first and foremost mental toughness.
But in hindsight they probably should have switched Rd3 and Rd4 pin positions.
Enjoyed the tourney though.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 00:25

Further to the Koepka consecutive cuts made stat: just seen that in his last 11 majors he’s finished no worse than T21st. That’s going it some.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 00:48

pedro wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:If the USGA's goal is not to embarrass the best players in the world, but to identify them, they failed.
Bunch of stuck up wallies.
Decent final leaderboard I’d say. And much in line with our fantasy game predictions.
Yes there were a few bad pins in Rd3 but what the USGA challenged was first and foremost mental toughness.
But in hindsight they probably should have switched Rd3 and Rd4 pin positions.
Enjoyed the tourney though.


All's well that ends well.
Good for Koepka, Good for Tommy, fantastic really, and DJ played well, just lost it on the greens.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 02:07

7 of the Top 9 finishers are in their 20's

Brooks, Tommy, Tyrrell, Berger, Xander, Patrick and Tony.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by beninho on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 07:38

Deserved win by Koepka, especially so when he played in the unplayable conditions and shot 72. And his good short game was probably helped by the softening of the greens today.

I saw DJ and Reed both saying only issue with Saturday was 2 hole placements. Shame the the top reactions from some players and lots on the media. I didn't like the set up on Sunday, it didn't say US Open.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by JAS on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 11:14

Very impressed by Koepka, held it together well with the weight of history sitting on his shoulders. Did he hit a bad shot or 2 coming down the stretch, yes of course he did and the main reason he's champion is that he didn't then compound the error(s). Always think the U.S. Open identifies not only the best player that week but it also highlights who has the best mental fortitude.

As for all the hoohaa about the course (by that I mean the course set up, particularly on Saturday not the venue itself), yes The USGA pretty much conceded that they may have put a few pins in silly position but in saying that everybody has to play to the same pin, it is what it is. I don't think it would be great week in week out viewing watching the pros tear themselves to pieces but for one event a year I think it's a great watch.

Be interesting to see what they do next year at PB which is not overly long and has very tricky greens. Hazarding a guess I'd say they'd go back to very narrow fairways in places.

On to Carnoustie now, for those relatively local, what sort of rough growing spring/early summer has the area had? My guess there is that rough will be used again (maybe not as zealously as '99) to stop the place being torn apart if there's no wind.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 15:55

The Tour heads to Minnesota:

https://www.pgatour.com/news/2018/06/18/new-pga-tour-event-3m-minnesota-2019.html

Well done to the PGA Tour; it'll be interesting to see the full calendar, but suspect it'll be pretty much as robopz thumbsup speculated a few weeks ago.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 19:59

Funny

https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1008479625184530432?s=19

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by LadyPutt on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 20:24

JAS wrote:On to Carnoustie now, for those relatively local, what sort of rough growing spring/early summer has the area had? My guess there is that rough will be used again (maybe not as zealously as '99) to stop the place being torn apart if there's no wind.

It's been pretty dry for the past few weeks and certainly our courses on the east Fife coast have been starting to bake and were grateful for a small deluge on Sunday and there's another forecast for overnight on Tuesday but that's pretty much it in terms of rain so I suspect Carnasty could be very fast, dry and with not too much thick rough - and there's more warm and sunny weather forecast (yes, even in Scotland) but we are also experiencing some high winds which have contributed to the courses drying out so I think it could be a bit of a lottery. We'll just have to wait and see what Mother Nature throws at us in the coming weeks.
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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 21:20

GPB wrote:Funny

https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1008479625184530432?s=19
thumbsup
F U. Sir.

Although I never get sir’ed as much as when I’m in America, I can’t stand the uptight selfindulgent types you risk running into on (some) UK golf courses.

pedro

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 21:25

Webb Simpson sneaked into a tie for tenth with a 69 yesterday, that’s the first time he’s ever had a top ten in a major other than his win. There’s not many players whose only major top tens are wins; Hamilton and Beem are the only two I know of.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 23:37

Paul Lawrie.

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 23:39

Had one top ten at the Open before he won... good try...

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Re: PGA Tour: Shinnecock - A Star is Reborn: Notes from the Ballwasher

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