England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 03 Jul 2018, 11:09 am

First topic message reminder :

T20s

A three match series between the 2nd (India) and 4th ranked teams in the world https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/team-rankings/t20i

Fixtures

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 17:30
Emirates Old Trafford, Manchester

Friday 6th July 2018 17:30
Sophia Gardens Cardiff, Cardiff

Sunday 8th July 2018 14:00
The Brightside Ground, Bristol


Squads

England: Morgan, Ali, Bairstow, Ball, Buttler, Curran S, Curran T, Hales, Jordan, Plunkett, Rashid, Root, Roy, Willey (Malan in as cover for 1st game, Stokes may join for 3rd)

India: Kohli, Chahal, Chahar, Dhawan, Dhoni, Karthik, Kaul, Kuldeep Yadav, Kumar, Pandey, HH Pandya, KH Pandya, Rahul, Raina, Sharma UT Yadav


Key Men

Jos Buttler - move up the order during IPL has given him much more time to have an impact. While only ranked 26 in ICC rankings, this will improve now he opens.
Alex Hales - Formerly top ranked batter in T20s, has dropped a bit (to 7) and finds his place in the England side under threat.
Rashid/Ali - Englands spinners have thrived in the one day format, but will find the Indian batting lineup a tough test.

Virat Kohli - probably the best batsmen in the world across all 3 forms of the game. Some injury issues recently.
Chahal/Kuldeep Yadav - India look like going with two wrist spinners. England often struggle to score quickly against good spin.



ODIs

Fixtures

Another 3 match series between the the top two ranked sides in the world.  Both teams will be wanting to lay down a marker before next year's world cup.


Thursday 12th July 2018 12:30
Trent Bridge, Nottingham

Saturday 14th July 2018 11:00
Lord's, London

Tuesday 17th July 2018 12:30
Emerald Headingley, Leeds


Squads

England - Eoin Morgan (capt), Moeen Ali, Jonny Bairstow, Jake Ball, Jos Buttler, Alex Hales, Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey, Mark Wood.



Test Series

A form of cricket in which the visitors have been much better than the hosts. The series goes deep into September as India seek to avenge the series defeat in 2014. In a manner we have become used to seeing from touring teams around the world, that series India capitulated in the final 3 tests  having won the second test to take a 1-0 lead. India however look strong enough this time out to put pressure on a faltering home test team.


Fixtures

Wednesday 1st August 2018 11:00
Edgbaston, Birmingham

Thursday 9th August 2018 11:00
Lord's, London

Saturday 18th August 2018 11:00
Trent Bridge, Nottingham

Thursday 30th August 2018 11:00
Ageas Bowl, Southampton

Friday 7th September 2018 11:00
Kia Oval, London

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by jimbohammers on Sat 14 Jul 2018, 6:44 pm

Bizarre innings from Dhoni. Looked like he couldn't be bothered. Hopefully it's that and not match fixing...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Sat 14 Jul 2018, 6:53 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Its amazing. Dhoni will go down as one of the best, if not the best, WK batsman in the history of ODI cricket and yet on the day he passes 10,000 ODI runs people come out to claim he should be discarded with...

The mind boggles sometimes.
Time waits for no man my friend. No one has ever beaten Father Time

Gavaskar once said " It better to leave when people ask, Why? rather Why Not? "

However the time is not yet over for Dhoni. After Sachin he will the only player to have never dropped till retirement because of his form.He will bounce back.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by KP_fan on Sat 14 Jul 2018, 8:17 pm

I didn't watch the 2nd half but the scorecard told the tale

Eng checked all the boxes in this game that i suggested they aught to at the end of last game viz.

--Do not collapse to Leggies....they handed out 4 wickets but didn't collapse
Get to 320 odd they did and get Indian top-4 out relatiively cheaply whihc they did too

--Credit must go to Wiley to hand over the monetum to Eng getting them 20 to 30 more than they looked at one time with 6 down

--One of Indian top-4 has to get a 100 and anchor the inning.....the nos 5 thru 7 are good for 30s and 40s and ocaasional 50s

so for example if Kohli had gotten a 120 odd...India would have crossed 300 and then the lower order could have gotten them very close if not over the line

--Dhawan has let us down.....5 innings without a big one....

Series is alive and India should bat first for a change
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 15 Jul 2018, 8:14 am

I actually agree with Nathaniel - Pant should be in this XI over Dhoni, he is a much better bat, Dhoni is half the player he used to be 4/5 years ago

Good win for England and good to see Root get some form back too
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 15 Jul 2018, 9:48 am

Missed this one but as others have said the scoreboard seems to tell the story.
Englands ridiculous batting depth bailed them out, and they managed this time to eek out enough wickets early on to put more pressure on India this time, once into their long tail it was only likely to end one way.
Very happy to see Root back in the runs, hopefuly it relieves some of the pressure on him across all formats. Hopefuly Stokes can feel his way back in for the next game and make an impact on the series.
The strengths and weakeneses of both teams have been exposed in the two games so far. I defy anyone to call game 3 with confidence. Including the T20s weve previously seen England appear to have got to grips with Indias spinners only to get destroyed by them in the 1st ODI. We havent seen them really get going with the bat yet though, and India didnt respond well to chasing a slightly over par total this time. Englands bowlers arent great at forcing wickets against quality batsmen but if they can get the regular breakthroughs as they did in this game Indias tail is very long once the superstars are gone.
If you put together a team with Indias spinners and star bats , Englands all rounders (and Buttler) then found a genuine fast strike bowler from somewhere you have the perfect ODI machine. Instead youve got two very good sides who play differently to different strengths. Thats great for cricket.

As things stand at the moment its hard to see which other sides could get their acts togethet sufficenyly in the next 12 months to offer a real challenge to these in the world cup.

As for Dhoni ....its part of Indian tradition to allow fading stars to hang on in the team well past their sell by date. We saw England willing to drop Root for a game when hes still mid career, and olayers seem to be in a race to "retire gracefully" once they hit 30.
I do feel for him a bit though ...its a tough ask to come in as a specialist finisher so high up the order and in this case with so many overs remaining. Even more so little support from the bowlers who can barely hold a bat between them. But batting so slowly as to kill any hope India had of a remarkable turn around just seemed odd. More damage limitation than any attempt to produce a miracle innings.
Overall though whilst hes had a rough year hws still at 14 in the ICC ODI batmen list...ahead of Roy Stokes and Hales. Whilst that list is may be overly skewed by historic long term perfomance stats it does show that even in a perceived slump hes still a real force in world cricket and you can understand Kholi having faith and patience in him.
India have a big hitter up top then a number of batsmen who can craft an innings. With a lack of power hitters from 8 down you can also see why they are desperate to retain Dhonis ability to score at ludicrous rates in the death overs.
The questions for me are can he do that consistently enough now, does he still have the confidence and direction from the leadership to go for it ( apparently no instruction to change what he was doing was sent out in this game) and could Pant be fulfilling that role better whilst keeping at least as well?
India should probably experiment with Pant in their next series. They probably wont. Either way they are still good enough to be in with a real chance of winning the world cup.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 1:46 pm

Not a huge crowd on here for the decider , then ?

India unusually cautious early today (I missed the first few overs but see that Wood was particularly economical). Dhawan seems to have fired up after that loose over from Plunkett and he and Kholi have got things moving nicely now...

82/1 off 17. A big partnership now will still see a hefty score posted despite the initial crawl...but if the England spinners can snare one or two...

Run out ? Yes ! Great bit of fielding Ben Stokes clap

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 1:54 pm

..bit dozey from Dhawan though. Slow to engage reverse gear ... he will be annoyed at wasting his start.

Kohli going nicely though. England will want his wicket sooner rather than later. The Indian bowling set up looks a bit stronger today with Bhuvi aboard so chasing mightn't be a walk in the park.

Plunkett at the other end now...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 1:57 pm

Following the online scorecard....
Did I read Vinces name correctly? Are Roy and Hales both legally dead? Or are England just trying to get the excuses in incase they lose?

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 2:02 pm

Roy is out injured.

Malan was already released for the Lions and Hales due to his injury so Vince was the man standing by...you'd have to say he is about fourth choice but who knows ? This format might suit him better than the Test scene...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by eirebilly on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 2:04 pm

Stuck at work so wont be able to watch this one. Really hope that England get the win.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 2:15 pm

Good evening , eirebilly...

I was just about to post that India were getting on top when Karthik plays on to Rashid ...useful rapid 21 but India will want something more solid now as MS Dhoni arrives. 128/3 after half the overs

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 2:33 pm

Indian fans - why is Karthik ahead of Pant in the pecking order?
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 2:40 pm

Rashid on fire today ! Bowls the dangerous Kohli and then has Raina brilliantly caught by Root at leg slip clap

India with a big repair job on their hands at 157/5 off 31.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 2:43 pm

And now Moeen's turn !

Dhoni reviews ...oh , just going over ...really thought that was out but MS survives for now...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 2:57 pm

alfie wrote:Roy is out injured.

Malan was already released for the Lions and Hales due to his injury so Vince was the man standing by...you'd have to say he is about fourth choice but who knows ? This format might suit him better than the Test scene...

Fair enough! Id forgotten about Hales' injury tbh so it does appear it was legit and not just an excuse to avoid awkward questions about dropping him.

That aside England look in a strong position currently with India unable to accelrate and fast running our of batsmen. A chance for Dhoni to make a statement, but also a chance for him to add to the doubts about his ability to really spark like he used to. Id like to see India go for it from here rather than have him try to dab around as the long tail struggles around him.


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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 2:59 pm

It appears Cap'n Morgan is going to bowl Rashid out...probably fair enough though he'd love to see him get one of these out before he's finished : the pace men might be more hittable at the death.
We might yet see an over or two from Root , perhaps ?

Reckon it will aid India's spinners later so the less they have to chase the better; and a lot depends on these two bats. Dhoni still in low gear at the moment...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:05 pm

Rashid all done ...excellent 3/49.  That ball that bowled the well set Kohli was a real gem OK

Not much spin left for England though ...Moeen on his last.  Dhoni clearly waiting for the seam bowlers...

192/5. Twelve left ...both spinners finished. I'd try one or two from Root ; but its Wood back for now...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:09 pm

...and Wood strikes immediately ! Seams back in and Pandya edges to Buttler... 194/6

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:15 pm

I like Morgan's approach here. Stokes back on , slip in for Kumar. Going for the kill.
He knows Dhoni could still cause damage.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:16 pm

Looks like India are locked in the mentality of seeing out the overs . Dhonis almost given up trying to score again.
Theres always a chance their spinners will bail them out but 250 looks a big ask from here

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by jimbohammers on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:20 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Following the online scorecard....
Did I read Vinces name correctly? Are Roy and Hales both legally dead? Or are England just trying to get the excuses in incase they lose?

Vince just led his team to win the One Day Cup and scored over 500 runs in the process. So yeah, you read his name correctly. Rolling Eyes

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by wisden on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:26 pm

but hales must be injured otherwise vince's selection would make no sense...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:28 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Looks like India are locked in the mentality of seeing out the overs . Dhonis almost given up trying to score again.
Theres always a chance their spinners will bail them out but 250 looks a big ask from here

Even 250 looks a stretch from here. (201/6 from 42) . But it's not the easiest batting against spin on this - and England have been known to occasionally make a meal of modest chases...

Not calling it yet. But the home team will be much the happier at present.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:44 pm

Lovely bowling from the recalled Willey...draws the edge from Dhoni ; who never really got moving up the gears.

222/7 ...just the bowlers left to push this score along in the last four overs...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by jimbohammers on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:49 pm

wisden wrote:but hales must be injured otherwise vince's selection would make no sense...

Yeah, he is injured. Hence why Vince was called up. OK

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:51 pm

Mark Wood ends with excellent - and well deserved - figures of
10-2-30-1.
Easily his best effort for ages clap

Perhaps he's read some of the online opinion that his days in the squad might be numbered Smile

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:58 pm

Somehow Stokes seems to yield sixes at the death Smile

Thakur puts his first into the stands and it would have been a second but for some brilliant agility from Plunkett at long on.

Tail wagging should raise the 250 now...another six ! Stokes just doesn't get it right at the death...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:59 pm

Stokes is bowling an absolutely abysmal 49th over here - club cricketers could bowl better at the death than this
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 4:06 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Stokes is bowling an absolutely abysmal 49th over here - club cricketers could bowl better at the death than this

Yes he just seems to struggle when they go after him at the end...wouldn't have been my choice to bowl the penultimate over ; but I guess Plunkett had had a bad day already.

If not for that over they'd have been held well short of 250 ...as it is India get a little boost at the finish.

Still 256 ain't a lot. India will need early wickets , I think.


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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 4:15 pm

I reckon they're a good 30/40 runs short of a decent score - yes the pitch is taking some spin, but it aint a minefield and the outfield is very very quick. On the whole England bowled well and fielded superbly
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 4:26 pm

See the Lions made 423 , Olly ...though your Surrey contingent didn't do so well I'm afraid : Burns Pope and young Sam all nothing with the bat.

Porter and Fisher both with early wickets...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 5:05 pm

YJB not messing about...seven fours already , 30 off 12 as he carves up some poor Indian pace bowling.
Vince also not missing out and it's 43 in the fifth ...but Bairstow gets a little overexcited and gifts his wicket with a loose clip to mid wicket.

England have their flying start ; should settle down now and just bat sensibly. Root in...


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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 5:25 pm

Someone needs to teach James Vince how to run a single
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 5:38 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Someone needs to teach James Vince how to run a single

Yeah he threw that away didn't he ?

Carelessness is really the only thing that can derail England in this chase , I think. Two wickets tossed away already so I guess you can't rule it out Smile

A little annoying as I was planning to turn in and leave them to it with total confidence...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by jimbohammers on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 5:51 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Someone needs to teach James Vince how to run a single

A stupid single to take really, with the start we had made.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 6:33 pm

It seems India is completely out of touch today. Nothing working for them.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 6:39 pm

Dhoni drops Root - poor keeping
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 6:59 pm

Dhoni with an excellent stumping - Chahal has stepped over for a no ball though

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by jimbohammers on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 7:58 pm

Root with another 100 and celebrates with a *mic drop*

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Duty281 on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 8:19 pm

Great result for England, underlining their status as the premier ODI team and strong favourites for next year's World Cup.

Five test series next. *Gulp*

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 8:43 pm

Slightly annoyed at Bairstow for trying to win it in 10 overs. The only way they were going to be troubled was throwing cheap wickets away ...which both he and Vince did. Root and Morgan kept their heads though and could play comfortably to see it home with bags to spare.
Indias weakness in batting depth and the Dhoni issue has been exposed again. England sem to have got to grips more with the wrist spinners as the series progressed.
All in despite the stuffing they took in the first game and the loss of the T20 series they must be favourites for a home world cup if everyones fit.

For once the test series feels like its tacked on and drawn out. Its important for England to start rebuilding that side and get some confidence, but an excellent chance for India get something out of an away series. Id expect the attrition of such a long tour to bite India by test 3 and their seam resources seriously tested by 5. Im going with India to win one of the first two, a rain affected draw, then England to win 3.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 10:23 pm

Once the novelty factor wears off Kuldeep Yadav isn’t as good as he’s made out by the Indian media. A couple of freakish performances but he’s pretty limited. Can’t consistently maintain a line and length. Should India select him in the Test series he’ll be badly exposed. I don’t see him every getting to the level of Ashwin or Jadeja, despite the biased comments from faded home town bully Harbhajan Singh.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 9:02 am

Albeit they didn't open yesterday, but Roy/Bairstow's combined and individual ODI stats this summer are incredible.

Partnership - 669 runs across 8 games at an average of 83.6 - partnerships of 129, 0, 63, 159, 174, 2, 73 and 69.

Roy's stats (8 games) - 416 runs off 366 balls at an average of 52, strike rate of 113 - two hundreds

Bairstow's stats (9 games) - 511 runs off 363 balls at an average of 56, strike rate of 140 (!!) - two hundreds.

My word.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 10:58 am

Indian test squad for the first three tests has been announced

Vijay
Dhawan
Rahul
Kohli
Pujara
Rahane
Nair
Karthik (wk)
Pant (wk)
Ashwin
Jadeja
Kuldeep
Pandya
Ishant
Shami
Umesh
Bumrah
Thakur

That is the 18. Bumrah will be available from the 2nd test onwards, and Bhuvi is being assessed after potentially reinjuring himself in the final ODI.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 11:06 am

Without Kumar for potentially the whole series and Bumrah missing the first test, India’s slim hopes of winning the series are over. Shami has been injured and involved in a court case. Ishant statistically the worst bowler to take 200+ wickets. Thakur looked averaged in the third ODI.

Conversely I hope that Pant gets a game, gotta be a pretty decent player to have scored a triple hundred before your 20th birthday

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 11:25 am

Interesting that the squad is just for the first 3 tests.

What do people think the lineup for T1 will be from India (and England I guess).

Pant and Rahane currently batting against the Lions, while Nair and Vijay were out yesterday for single figure scores.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 11:55 am

I'd imagine India will be this for the 1st tes (if Bhuvi is fit, he comes in for Umesh);

Vijay
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pant (WK)
Ashwin
Jadeja
Umesh
Shami
Ishant

Would that be right Indian fans? Pant over Karthik as keeper? Dhawan over Rahul opening?
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by James100 on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 11:58 am

Been a lot of talk about Indian management not thinking Pant is good enough as a keeper yet so I'd expect Karthik to keep and Rahul to open ahead of Dhawan, especially on pitches that will do a bit. India only played one spinner in SA so I'd also guess Pandya ahead of Jadeja.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 12:06 pm

3Don't see Pujara getting into the playing XI tbh. He was awful for Yorkshire earlier this season. Vijay dhawan Rahul will be the top 3

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 12:15 pm

Having had an outstanding 2017, Pujara has had a pretty dismal 2018 both in Tests and County Championship. Rahul has been inferior for India over the last two years while Vijay has been in and out of favour.

Despite being the No1 Test team, and having real concerns about England in this format, I am starting to gain some optimism.

Who do people want to see playing for England, and who do they think will be selected?

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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