England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 03 Jul 2018, 11:09 am

First topic message reminder :

T20s

A three match series between the 2nd (India) and 4th ranked teams in the world https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/team-rankings/t20i

Fixtures

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 17:30
Emirates Old Trafford, Manchester

Friday 6th July 2018 17:30
Sophia Gardens Cardiff, Cardiff

Sunday 8th July 2018 14:00
The Brightside Ground, Bristol


Squads

England: Morgan, Ali, Bairstow, Ball, Buttler, Curran S, Curran T, Hales, Jordan, Plunkett, Rashid, Root, Roy, Willey (Malan in as cover for 1st game, Stokes may join for 3rd)

India: Kohli, Chahal, Chahar, Dhawan, Dhoni, Karthik, Kaul, Kuldeep Yadav, Kumar, Pandey, HH Pandya, KH Pandya, Rahul, Raina, Sharma UT Yadav


Key Men

Jos Buttler - move up the order during IPL has given him much more time to have an impact. While only ranked 26 in ICC rankings, this will improve now he opens.
Alex Hales - Formerly top ranked batter in T20s, has dropped a bit (to 7) and finds his place in the England side under threat.
Rashid/Ali - Englands spinners have thrived in the one day format, but will find the Indian batting lineup a tough test.

Virat Kohli - probably the best batsmen in the world across all 3 forms of the game. Some injury issues recently.
Chahal/Kuldeep Yadav - India look like going with two wrist spinners. England often struggle to score quickly against good spin.



ODIs

Fixtures

Another 3 match series between the the top two ranked sides in the world.  Both teams will be wanting to lay down a marker before next year's world cup.


Thursday 12th July 2018 12:30
Trent Bridge, Nottingham

Saturday 14th July 2018 11:00
Lord's, London

Tuesday 17th July 2018 12:30
Emerald Headingley, Leeds


Squads

England - Eoin Morgan (capt), Moeen Ali, Jonny Bairstow, Jake Ball, Jos Buttler, Alex Hales, Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey, Mark Wood.



Test Series

A form of cricket in which the visitors have been much better than the hosts. The series goes deep into September as India seek to avenge the series defeat in 2014. In a manner we have become used to seeing from touring teams around the world, that series India capitulated in the final 3 tests  having won the second test to take a 1-0 lead. India however look strong enough this time out to put pressure on a faltering home test team.


Fixtures

Wednesday 1st August 2018 11:00
Edgbaston, Birmingham

Thursday 9th August 2018 11:00
Lord's, London

Saturday 18th August 2018 11:00
Trent Bridge, Nottingham

Thursday 30th August 2018 11:00
Ageas Bowl, Southampton

Friday 7th September 2018 11:00
Kia Oval, London

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:06 pm

As much as I dont rate either of them it would be comedy gold to have Wood and Willey going up against Hardik

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:09 pm

Nervous nineties for BB Chris Woakes

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Post by robbo277 on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:18 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:A 200 lead would be more than ample but should both these continue to hunt down centuries then leave them to achieve them. Either way the first innings lead will be 200+. A few balls are keeping low also which helps bowlers plus it may look benign just now (the pitch) but with a new nut in Anderson, Broad and Woakes hands I would be surprised if they couldn't prize out a wicket or three before close. India could be 50 for 3 (still 150 behind) and there would be no winning from there in my opinion.

I do take your point, but we are still playing the number 1 test team in the World. If we don't get those wickets, we might hand the initiative to India, and could later rue not getting an extra 50 runs first time round.

If we don't declare, we could be up near a 300 lead by close (or more likely 250 when we don't get the overs in). It would reduce the chance of a loss and we still have the time to win.

To be honest, I'd say if we get 90 overs on Sunday/Monday, we'll win whether we declare tonight or not. But I don't think we will declare, and I don't think it would increase our chance of winning unless we're forecasting heavy rain across both days.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:21 pm

A cracking maiden century for Chris Woakes. England 304 for 5. Bairstow needs 9 for his century then I think the declaration will come.
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Post by alfie on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:23 pm

Hundred for Woakes clap

England taking an iron grip on this game. Just a question of can they bowl India out between rain breaks now...

Think we will see a declaration late today.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:26 pm

robbo277 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:A 200 lead would be more than ample but should both these continue to hunt down centuries then leave them to achieve them. Either way the first innings lead will be 200+. A few balls are keeping low also which helps bowlers plus it may look benign just now (the pitch) but with a new nut in Anderson, Broad and Woakes hands I would be surprised if they couldn't prize out a wicket or three before close. India could be 50 for 3 (still 150 behind) and there would be no winning from there in my opinion.

I do take your point, but we are still playing the number 1 test team in the World. If we don't get those wickets, we might hand the initiative to India, and could later rue not getting an extra 50 runs first time round.

If we don't declare, we could be up near a 300 lead by close (or more likely 250 when we don't get the overs in). It would reduce the chance of a loss and we still have the time to win.

To be honest, I'd say if we get 90 overs on Sunday/Monday, we'll win whether we declare tonight or not. But I don't think we will declare, and I don't think it would increase our chance of winning unless we're forecasting heavy rain across both days.

India are the No 1 test team in the world. Correct. But that stat was not gained by their players performances in England which has been very disappointing in the last few tours. The overhead conditions are cloudy overhead and ideal for Anderson and Broad for a quick dart at them tonight. If no wickets fall there is nothing lost. The weather over the next two days are guaranteed to be heavily affected by rain so every over bowled at India will be valuable. Even if India buck their trends of score in England of late tand make 300 that will take them the best part of a full day's play which we may only have left so there is no danger of England losing this test.
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Post by robbo277 on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:27 pm

Just heard on TMS: Woakes is averaging over 100 with the bat and under 10 with the ball in 3 tests at Lords.

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:33 pm

Desperate review by Kohli wastes India's last review.

That's it for drs for this innings Smile

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:36 pm

Tremendous catch from Karthik to dismiss Bairstow for 93. Still no declaration though. A quick bash from Curran then?
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Post by alfie on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:42 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Tremendous catch from Karthik to dismiss Bairstow for 93. Still no declaration though. A quick bash from Curran then?

Why not ? This is the time to cash in , while the opposition is a bit demoralized .

Pity YJB didn't get the hundred - he deserved one , innings (with Woakes) has put England totally in command.

Coud be some fireworks if young Sam gets going...

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 5:52 pm

Easy runs on offer...Kuldeep serving up pies regularly.

Though as I type he spins one viciously past Curran's edge. Rashid might like the look of that.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 6:07 pm

And that looks like the end of play for the day as bad light stops play. England 357 for 6. Woakes 120 not out and Sam Curran 22 not out. England lead by 250.
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 6:07 pm

Lead at exactly 250 and we're coming off for light.

Forecast for Sunday is pretty dreadful, but Monday looks promising. I do think that England have missed a trick, however, in batting so long today.

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Post by robbo277 on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 6:09 pm

alfie wrote:Easy runs on offer...Kuldeep serving up pies regularly.

Though as I type he spins one viciously past Curran's edge.  Rashid might like the look of that.

Rashid might not get a look in. I don't think Root wants him bowling at Kohli, he wants to get his seamers working Kohli over. Once he's got him he might call on Rashid - but if the balls moving for Anderson and co then maybe not even then. In the first test he bowled 8 overs mainly between 60 and 76, although Kohli couldn't fully get at him because he was batting with the tail. In the second innings he came in against the tail.

Since his controversial recall, he's taken 3-40 in 12 overs across 3 innings (total of 165.4 overs). Not sure given the controversy whether it's better that he can just chip in here and there and just build his confidence. You'd assume at some point he might be relied upon to bowl a long spell, but currently he's just effectively doing his job.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 6:09 pm

Duty281 wrote:Lead at exactly 250 and we're coming off for light.

Forecast for Sunday is pretty dreadful, but Monday looks promising. I do think that England have missed a trick, however, in batting so long today.

I agree. I'd have declared when Bairstow's wicket fell.
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Post by robbo277 on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 6:57 pm

Ideally England would have got an extra 50 runs if the light had held out, with Woakes, Curran and Rashid all capable of chipping in. England don't want to bat again, they are looking to win this one by an innings.

A lot of heavy rain forecast tomorrow. If the start gets delayed, I'd definitely declare immediately. Get into the openers in the afternoon/evening under heavy cloud with a swinging ball. Look to get Kohli in and out quickly. If we can get just 30 overs played in conditions like Friday, we can make a serious dents in this Indian batting line-up.

India on the other hand will be thinking they just need one partnership to really kick on. It will probably have to involve Kohli, but if they can get a decent opening stand to get the shine off the new ball and then Kohli + one other can put on 200 as Woakes and Bairstow did, then they would have gone some to remove England's first innings lead. It will be tough against England's 4-man pace attack, and with the weather and the lack of turn in the pitch they probably won't have enough time to set a total and bowl England out, but they'll want to show some fight, take a draw and regroup for the next test.

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Post by alfie on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 7:10 pm

Robbo : I think we can forget about India winning ! They are 250 behind and they'll be thinking about saving the game if they can.
Doubt conditions will,be quite as made to order for Anderson and co second time around , but there should be enough there to keep them interested...and if wickets are not falling quickly enough Rashid can have a go ...without worrying too much about conceding runs.

Of course we don't know how much play we will get in : but the first innings only took 36 overs . Two full days less weather breaks seems likely to yield a fair chance of bowling India out. You can see why they didn't declare : the chance that bad light would prevent them actually bowling might have meant just giving up useful runs for nothing...

Another good day for the home team , even if the top order batting still looks a bit dodgy.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 8:03 pm

So that's it for India. In the end, the only thing that went for India was that England batted through the day, giving a small chance for rain to save India!!.
Mighty fine innings from Woakes, and Bairstow continues to grow with each innings. He has been their 2nd best batsman for a long time, but now it has to be said that he's as good as Root. Doing it with gloves still on in tests, remarkable.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 8:10 pm

The bowlers tried in the first half of the day though they had nothing much to work with, and then that one inevitable partnership came, they just gave up. Kuldeep didn't justify his selection. Not sure Jadeja would have made a difference as far as the wickets were concerned, but he surely would have been less profligate. With all that rain, perhaps they could have gone in with Umesh, but wouldn't blame Kohli for that selection call, not as much as his terrible use of bowlers today, particularly the non-use of Ashwin! Should have had an early bowl that never came, he was brought on far too late and ruined whatever chances that he and India had. Hardik did a decent job for a 3rd seamer early on, he needs to be given more bowling responsibility regularly that he improves his game and brings in that consistency. He should bat number 8, Ashwin clearly is a better test bat at this point and has to bat ahead of Pant who should be picked from the next game onwards.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 10:56 pm

Pretty good day for England that - think they’ve got it spot on so far, probably declare a half hour into tomorrow or if it is delayed right away. As Alfie has said, declaring tonight would’ve been a mistake with runs coming so easily for us and bad light lingering.

Seen the highlights - all bar Jennings looked in decent nick and got good balls, Root got a right snorter of a delivery! Happy for Bairstow and my man, Sir Christoper of Woakes.

Think India and Kohli have made some massive selection and captaincy blunders this test. When you’re already down your first choice seamers, with rain forecast, why would you go with Pandya as a third seamer and two spinners? Also Kuldeep > Jadeja is just silly when Jadeja has caused england major issues in the past. And as msp says not bringing Ashwin on early was crazy too.

England however have some selection issues when (if) Mr stokes comes back from court. Woakes and Curran both making serious cases to be in for the rest of the series
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Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat 11 Aug 2018, 11:04 pm

Commanding performance by England today once the batsmen got away after lunch. Decent enough start to his pontificate by Pope and a very fine innings by Woakes. Seems unlikely there will be any worthwhile amount of play tomorrow so India still have reasonable hopes of saving the match.

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Post by alfie on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 4:25 am

Just watching back the highlights ...fair bit of Bairstow/Woakes I hadn't seen live.
Apparent how poor selection hurt India here . Not their fault they are missing two first choice seam bowlers ; but selecting Kuldeep ahead of Umesh surely meant they hadn't read the weather forecast - or even looked out the window. As the pace men tired , England just motored away...
Have to say also Kohli is not really a good captain in the tactical sense. He is a wonderful leader by example ; and a fine motivator of men : but his work in the field seems characterized by fiddling around and experimenting rather than hard logic.
I know it wasn't Ashwin's ideal surface ; but when he has bowled just six of the first 50 overs - the same as the ineffective Kuldeep - you have to wonder. Seems a bit like England struggling in the sub continent but leaving Anderson to cool his heels at mid on...I think you should always give your best bowler a chance to make an impact before the game has got away...
In fairness it might not have mattered much. Conditions seemed to have moderated and the effects the toss on this game has been considerable.

As always I will leave selection musing to after match...but clearly Woakes has put down a huge marker - as has Curran.  Can't have a team full of all rounders so choice/rotation loom...

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 6:38 am

I am going to think out of the box here if Stokes is available for the next test. Bring him in for Buttler.
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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 7:05 am

The hugely unreliable forecast has shifted again.
Its now looking like we will get a significant amount of play today, and a full day tomorrow.

With cloud around today to assist its hard to see England not winning comfortably now.

Unless the forecasts wrong ...again

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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 9:02 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Pretty good day for England that - think they’ve got it spot on so far, probably declare a half hour into tomorrow or if it is delayed right away. As Alfie has said, declaring tonight would’ve been a mistake with runs coming so easily for us and bad light lingering.

Seen the highlights - all bar Jennings looked in decent nick and got good balls, Root got a right snorter of a delivery! Happy for Bairstow and my man, Sir Christoper of Woakes.

Think India and Kohli have made some massive selection and captaincy blunders this test. When you’re already down your first choice seamers, with rain forecast, why would you go with Pandya as a third seamer and two spinners? Also Kuldeep > Jadeja is just silly when Jadeja has caused england major issues in the past. And as msp says not bringing Ashwin on early was crazy too.

England however have some selection issues when (if) Mr stokes comes back from court. Woakes and Curran both making serious cases to be in for the rest of the series

Very much agree with that, Olly.

If the light had been ok, I maybe would have looked to, say, bat another 8 overs and get 40 more runs on the board for a lead of circa 290 and then have given India a few overs to face last night. I agree we didn't (most certainly shouldn't) need a further 40 runs - simply that it's sometimes easier to take wickets when the opposition have been up against it in the field for a long time and are tired and pretty despondent.

When captain of Surrey, Gareth Batty once justified a post-tea declaration when many expected it before the scheduled break with a massive score already on the board by referring to the opposition county and saying, ''It was to p*ss them off''. Batty was not a particularly astute skipper tactically but he understands human nature - and it worked.

What to do now? If play doesn't start on time today, I would certainly declare. However, if we have a prompt start and the forecast is as encouraging as our Mr Gooseberry suggests, I would take Gareth Batty's example and bat on for another 30 minutes as Olly suggests. Keep their opening bats wondering and waiting for a bit - p*ss 'em off!

I also agree with some of the criticism of Kohli's captaincy. I'm definitely with Alfie that Ashwin should have bowled more earlier. Ashwin's a class act and when it comes to class acts with the ball they should be given a decent opportunity to bowl regardless.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 9:48 am

After the first session yesterday.........conditions eased considerably

Kohli had 2.5 seamers and he gambled bowling them in tandem instead of Holding with Ashwin from one end and using seamer at the other that worked so well in T1

By the time he brought ashwin............, the little dampness and a lot of hardness in the ball that ashwin enjoyed in T1 was gone & then the game started drifting
and for once Kohli looked clueless and in despair

this is heading towards a monumental defeat unless weather wipes out a big chunk of game or India show BIG resolve with the bat

actually to get out of this hole India would need both

a crushing defeat here could drain the morale out for the rest of series
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Post by Duty281 on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 10:47 am

England still haven't declared, it seems, and Bairstow thinks his side need to bat for as long as possible.  picard

Every over that England bat raises the chances of a draw.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 10:55 am

Duty281 wrote:England still haven't declared, it seems, and Bairstow thinks his side need to bat for as long as possible.  picard

Every over that England bat raises the chances of a draw.

Yes it smacks more of ensure a draw and it will be a bonus if they get anything else. A winning attitude would be to have declared late last night or now and put the pressure on the Indian batsmen.

Perhaps it is inward insecurity as they know how fragile their batting can be so wouldn't fancy having to chase 50 to 10p runs should it even come to that.
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Post by sirfredperry on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:01 am

Stupid, bone-headed, inexplicable, downright infantile decision not to declare. It will soon be bucketing down and India could well save the game.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:15 am

Shami beating the outside edge time and again as Anderson and Broad watch on before rain hits. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Post by Duty281 on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:30 am

Kohli injured apparently. He 'should', but only 'should', bat in the second innings.

Huge ramifications for the series, potentially.

And a tremendous band of rain is starting to close in on London.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:35 am

Chris Woakes scores his 1000th run in test cricket as England bat on and are 396 for 6 and lead by 289 runs.
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Post by Duty281 on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:39 am

England finally declare after adding 39 runs.

47 minutes taken out of the game.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:43 am

Root’s got that bang on for my money
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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:44 am

Well, Nasser is with me at least and I guess Olly still is too - I reckon England got it about right in batting on this morning as long as they did.

Yeah, a lot depends on the weather but there should be enough time left to get the win. Sometimes it's easier to get a couple of wickets in 70 minutes than two hours.

Sam Curran doing his standing as a team man a lot of good whilst Woakes showed his skipper how to go big, eh goose?

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:45 am

Just over an hour left of this session (or has it been extended) as rain starts to spit as players take to the field. Once this rain hits it is forecast to be there for the day.
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Post by Duty281 on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:51 am

I can't agree about England batting on this morning.

They could have had a good 12-14 overs at India this morning, but have instead sacrificed that to add a meaningless 39 runs.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:55 am

I would be surprised if they get a complete session in here. As I say that Anderson snares Vijay for another duck.
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Post by Duty281 on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:56 am

Broad looks ineffective, but Anderson gets the first. Stupendous bowling.

England are 9 away.

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Post by alfie on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 11:59 am

If there is enough rain to spare India the 40 minutes "wasted" this morning won't make any difference.
Reckon gulidford - and Batty - got it right : they batted on to "p..." 'Em off...and probably also to "p..." off Michael Vaughan Smile

Didn't take long for Jimmy to get his hundredth at Lord's clap

Pair for Vijay ...nasty pair of balls to get , to be fair !

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 12:16 pm


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