Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

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Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by The Oracle on Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

So we made it to the end of the 2017/18 season.  We've seen/endured the first year of Bernard Jackman's plan.  I think most of us have been through a rollercoaster of emotions, similar to previous seasons but perhaps even more so this season given the new injection of life and investment into the Dragons.  First there was the hope - the new coaches, some new players, the new pitch, new chairman, new cash injection.  Then we started to stumble - it's all down to the new coach and getting used to the new systems, we said.  Then came the face plant and the realisation that this trend was going to carry on for the whole season - a couple of wins in the league, a few in Europe, a lot of spankings, not many losing bonus points.  Very poor return.  The hope turned to despair and BJ's methods were being questioned.  Then the hope comes again with the announcement of new signings ('stellar' signings, compared to previous years!) and the assurance that the 1st year of the plan was always going to be difficult and that year 2 would be the one to judge BJ on.....  

So.......on to year 2 (2018/19).  Where are we?  What are our expectations (realistically)?  What's the best team we can put out on paper and how competitive will it be?  For a number of years we've been stuffed in the league so seem to try to get some solace from a decent showing in the Euro 2nd tier comp.  However, should we forget about Europe and try to put all of our focus on the league?  I think so.

Transfers - we've lost more than we've gained, although the quality of the transfers in could/should be better than those leaving.  But I'm worried we'll be thin on the ground when the inevitable injuries hit.

Players In: = 14
Jordan Williams from England Bristol Bears
Rhodri Williams from England Bristol Bears
Ross Moriarty from England Gloucester
Rhodri Davies from England Rotherham Titans
Richard Hibbard from England Gloucester
Huw Taylor from England Worcester Warriors
Josh Lewis from England Bath
Ryan Bevington from England Bristol Bears
Aaron Jarvis from France Clermont
Dafydd Howells from Wales Ospreys
Tiaan Loots from Wales RGC 1404
Jacob Botica from Wales RGC 1404
Rhys Lawrence from England Ealing Trailfinders
Brandon Nansen from France

Players Out: - =21
Sarel Pretorius to South Africa Southern Kings
Phil Price to Wales Scarlets
Scott Andrews to Wales Neath
Luke Garrett to Wales Neath
Adam Hughes retired
Pat Howard to England Ealing Trailfinders
Rhys Buckley to Wales Bargoed
Barney Nightingale to Wales Bargoed
Keagan Bale to Wales Bargoed
Angus O'Brien to Wales Scarlets
Nicky Thomas to Wales Scarlets (return from short-term loan)
Dorian Jones to France Angoulême
Charlie Davies to England Northampton Saints
Lloyd Lewis to Wales Pontypool
Sam Beard to New Zealand Canterbury
Sam Hobbs released
Thomas Davies released
Liam Belcher released
Ashley Sweet released
Robson Blake released
Carl Meyer released

I'll try to update the Ins and Outs as we go.


Last edited by The Oracle on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Stone Motif on Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:27 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:As far as I know they all stick to their cities rather than playing at a ground out in the sticks (sorry Ebbw residents!), but happy to be corrected if so.

What a typical backward way of thinking by the general entitled pro rugby fan in Wales.

Firstly, Ebbw Vale is not exactly "the sticks" as you put it. It has decent infrastructure as far as accessibility is concerned with a brand new train station just around the corner from EXP and direct access to the A465.

Secondly, no wonder the Pro14 is struggling outside the towns and cities where the fab four are based. Fans do not feel part of their regions north of the M4. Lets make it worst by not playing any games up there, because the privileged elite do not want to travel to the sticks.

Lastly, I bet you would get a decent crowd at EXP just as you did at Cross keys, but lets not allow the local Ebbw Vale people enjoy some pro rugby, as the fans from the big cities and the surrounding areas cannot be bothered to travel 30 miles. FFS.Rolling Eyes  

You might all think that the Pro14 is doing well, within your own bubbles, but lets face facts, outside the area's the four regions are based, bar the odd two or three people, it is struggling.

For the Pro rugby to take off in Wales, we need ALL of Wales to feel part of it, not just the M4 corridor.

Now let's see the red bar brigade attack me on here without giving a decent response. Let the insults begin. picard

Here's a riddle for the perennially thick. The WRU could have moved the Dragons lock stock to Ebbw Vale, not spent a penny on sorting out the pitch at Dave, and probably made a few quid selling the ground on their way out. They chose to stay in Newport. Food for thought?
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Stone Motif on Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:48 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:As far as I know they all stick to their cities rather than playing at a ground out in the sticks (sorry Ebbw residents!), but happy to be corrected if so.

What a typical backward way of thinking by the general entitled pro rugby fan in Wales.

Firstly, Ebbw Vale is not exactly "the sticks" as you put it. It has decent infrastructure as far as accessibility is concerned with a brand new train station just around the corner from EXP and direct access to the A465.

Secondly, no wonder the Pro14 is struggling outside the towns and cities where the fab four are based. Fans do not feel part of their regions north of the M4. Lets make it worst by not playing any games up there, because the privileged elite do not want to travel to the sticks.

Lastly, I bet you would get a decent crowd at EXP just as you did at Cross keys, but lets not allow the local Ebbw Vale people enjoy some pro rugby, as the fans from the big cities and the surrounding areas cannot be bothered to travel 30 miles. FFS.Rolling Eyes  

You might all think that the Pro14 is doing well, within your own bubbles, but lets face facts, outside the area's the four regions are based, bar the odd two or three people, it is struggling.

For the Pro rugby to take off in Wales, we need ALL of Wales to feel part of it, not just the M4 corridor.

Now let's see the red bar brigade attack me on here without giving a decent response. Let the insults begin. picard

Here's a riddle for the perennially thick. The WRU could have moved the Dragons lock stock to Ebbw Vale, not spent a penny on sorting out the pitch at Dave, and probably made a few quid selling the ground on their way out. They chose to stay in Newport. Food for thought?

To dumb it down a shade extra just in case. Why wouldn't a carpet salesman from Merthyr (let's call him Andy) open up a carpet store pop up in Ponty a couple times a year? He'd be bound to grow his business and sell a few more carpets surely.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by The Oracle on Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:08 pm

LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by RiscaGame on Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:26 am

Stone Motif wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:As far as I know they all stick to their cities rather than playing at a ground out in the sticks (sorry Ebbw residents!), but happy to be corrected if so.

What a typical backward way of thinking by the general entitled pro rugby fan in Wales.

Firstly, Ebbw Vale is not exactly "the sticks" as you put it. It has decent infrastructure as far as accessibility is concerned with a brand new train station just around the corner from EXP and direct access to the A465.

Secondly, no wonder the Pro14 is struggling outside the towns and cities where the fab four are based. Fans do not feel part of their regions north of the M4. Lets make it worst by not playing any games up there, because the privileged elite do not want to travel to the sticks.

Lastly, I bet you would get a decent crowd at EXP just as you did at Cross keys, but lets not allow the local Ebbw Vale people enjoy some pro rugby, as the fans from the big cities and the surrounding areas cannot be bothered to travel 30 miles. FFS.Rolling Eyes  

You might all think that the Pro14 is doing well, within your own bubbles, but lets face facts, outside the area's the four regions are based, bar the odd two or three people, it is struggling.

For the Pro rugby to take off in Wales, we need ALL of Wales to feel part of it, not just the M4 corridor.

Now let's see the red bar brigade attack me on here without giving a decent response. Let the insults begin. picard

Here's a riddle for the perennially thick. The WRU could have moved the Dragons lock stock to Ebbw Vale, not spent a penny on sorting out the pitch at Dave, and probably made a few quid selling the ground on their way out. They chose to stay in Newport. Food for thought?

To dumb it down a shade extra just in case. Why wouldn't a carpet salesman from Merthyr (let's call him Andy) open up a carpet store pop up in Ponty a couple times a year? He'd be bound to grow his business and sell a few more carpets surely.

Fair point.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by RiscaGame on Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:47 am

The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.

I struggle to comprehend how a businessman can't see how hosting a game in a place that's far more easily accessible (there isn't a direct line for most of the supporters to travel on to any other Premiership ground in "Gwent" to my knowledge), has better hospitality facilities, a permanent club shop, all of their sponsors on display and that has a better ground in general (the vast majority of the ground at ECP is uncovered for a start) makes sense.

Thankfully, Mr Buttress is a smart businessman and has seemingly stopped these outreach games. I wonder why he has done that?

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by RiscaGame on Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:15 am

Anyway, back to the rugby.

Apparently Zane is/was back in SA getting his visa sorted.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:55 am

Stone Motif wrote:Here's a riddle for the perennially thick. The WRU could have moved the Dragons lock stock to Ebbw Vale, not spent a penny on sorting out the pitch at Dave, and probably made a few quid selling the ground on their way out. They chose to stay in Newport. Food for thought?

Stone Motif wrote:To dumb it down a shade extra just in case. Why wouldn't a carpet salesman from Merthyr (let's call him Andy) open up a carpet store pop up in Ponty a couple times a year? He'd be bound to grow his business and sell a few more carpets surely.

I see the the resident keyboard warrior is here to tell me how it is. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:56 am

The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:57 am

I will not reply to risca, I have him on ignore. I cannot put up with his nonsense on here.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Stone Motif on Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:12 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Here's a riddle for the perennially thick. The WRU could have moved the Dragons lock stock to Ebbw Vale, not spent a penny on sorting out the pitch at Dave, and probably made a few quid selling the ground on their way out. They chose to stay in Newport. Food for thought?

Stone Motif wrote:To dumb it down a shade extra just in case. Why wouldn't a carpet salesman from Merthyr (let's call him Andy) open up a carpet store pop up in Ponty a couple times a year? He'd be bound to grow his business and sell a few more carpets surely.

I see the the resident keyboard warrior is here to tell me how it is. Rolling Eyes

Nice dodging of the questions put towards you, Andy
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by The Oracle on Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:50 am

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement. And I've answered that. It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently. It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement. The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me. And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are. That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence. If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!

So I've answered your questions, thanks.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by The Oracle on Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:52 am

RiscaGame wrote:Anyway, back to the rugby.

Apparently Zane is/was back in SA getting his visa sorted.

I really don't think I've seen him play a good full game for the Dragons. What has he done since he arrived?! I mean in a positive way (not the no.10 shenanigans)? Happy to be told I'm wrong but I just can't remember him having any stand out performances seeing as he's an ex international Bok fullback.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by munkian on Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:55 am

RiscaGame wrote:Anyway, back to the rugby.

Apparently Zane is/was back in SA getting his visa sorted.

Well....damn.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:00 am

The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement.  And I've answered that.  It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently.  It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement.  The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me.  And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are.  That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence.  If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!  

So I've answered your questions, thanks.

You do realise that Ebbw Vale has roughly the same population as a town from the west of Wales that hosts a so called region don't you ? It is not beyond the realms of belief that Ebbw could attract just as big a crowd as you do at Rodney Parade, or as the Scarlets do at Llanelli. Would you refer to Llanelli as "the sticks" wrote:



I was referring to this. As you were being very disingenuous to towns in the valleys.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by RiscaGame on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:10 am

The Oracle wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Anyway, back to the rugby.

Apparently Zane is/was back in SA getting his visa sorted.

I really don't think I've seen him play a good full game for the Dragons. What has he done since he arrived?! I mean in a positive way (not the no.10 shenanigans)? Happy to be told I'm wrong but I just can't remember him having any stand out performances seeing as he's an ex international Bok fullback.

I don't recall any personally. I know some are of the opinion he has played ok at 15, but I don't think he came with a particularly great rep from Leinster and I don't think he has really set the world on fire here, even discounting the disastrous ten experiment. I don't think I would have him in my starting XV, even without the internationals (I'd still probably go Rosser, Hewitt and Williams then).

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Stone Motif on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:12 am

Llanelli also happens to have a) a pro standard stadium and b) a local population willing and able to pay to watch pro rugby. How's the Andy's Carpets Ponty Pop Up going?
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Stone Motif on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:13 am

RiscaGame wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Anyway, back to the rugby.

Apparently Zane is/was back in SA getting his visa sorted.

I really don't think I've seen him play a good full game for the Dragons.  What has he done since he arrived?!  I mean in a positive way (not the no.10 shenanigans)?  Happy to be told I'm wrong but I just can't remember him having any stand out performances seeing as he's an ex international Bok fullback.

I don't recall any personally. I know some are of the opinion he has played ok at 15, but I don't think he came with a particularly great rep from Leinster and I don't think he has really set the world on fire here, even discounting the disastrous ten experiment. I don't think I would have him in my starting XV, even without the internationals (I'd still probably go Rosser, Hewitt and Williams then).
In fairness he's been injured most of the time. But agree, I'd have him as a mentor/senior player in with the under 23s
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by The Oracle on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:13 am

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement.  And I've answered that.  It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently.  It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement.  The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me.  And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are.  That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence.  If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!  

So I've answered your questions, thanks.




I was referring to this.

OK. Would I refer to it as the sticks? With tongue in cheek, yes. But a better answer would be to say it is a pretty remote in comparison to other areas in the region and other areas of South Wales (e.g. where other regions are based). You mention the A465 as being a good transport link/infrastructure. However, it doesn't really join anywhere of note (in the Dragons region). They're all small towns and villages between Abergavenny and Merthyr. The biggest place on the A465 is Hereford which isn't even in Wales! And getting to the A465 is not exactly easy either. It doesn't link directly to any motorways, for example. Not sure that's proof of the top end of the Gwent valleys having the infrastructure to host pro sport.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Stone Motif on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:14 am

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement.  And I've answered that.  It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently.  It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement.  The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me.  And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are.  That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence.  If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!  

So I've answered your questions, thanks.





I was referring to this. As you were being very disingenuous to towns in the valleys.
You'd think of all people you'd know what disingenuous means Andy, FFS
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:22 am

The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement.  And I've answered that.  It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently.  It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement.  The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me.  And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are.  That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence.  If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!  

So I've answered your questions, thanks.




I was referring to this.

OK.  Would I refer to it as the sticks?  With tongue in cheek, yes.  But a better answer would be to say it is a pretty remote in comparison to other areas in the region and other areas of South Wales (e.g. where other regions are based).  You mention the A465 as being a good transport link/infrastructure.  However, it doesn't really join anywhere of note (in the Dragons region).  They're all small towns and villages between Abergavenny and Merthyr.  The biggest place on the A465 is Hereford which isn't even in Wales!  And getting to the A465 is not exactly easy either.  It doesn't link directly to any motorways, for example.  Not sure that's proof of the top end of the Gwent valleys having the infrastructure to host pro sport.

Your so ignorant. You really should try leaving Newport once in a while. You are worse than PhilBB for your arrogance about anything north of the M4. Rolling Eyes

We are not the 3rd world up here mind.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by The Oracle on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:39 am

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement.  And I've answered that.  It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently.  It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement.  The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me.  And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are.  That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence.  If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!  

So I've answered your questions, thanks.




I was referring to this.

OK.  Would I refer to it as the sticks?  With tongue in cheek, yes.  But a better answer would be to say it is a pretty remote in comparison to other areas in the region and other areas of South Wales (e.g. where other regions are based).  You mention the A465 as being a good transport link/infrastructure.  However, it doesn't really join anywhere of note (in the Dragons region).  They're all small towns and villages between Abergavenny and Merthyr.  The biggest place on the A465 is Hereford which isn't even in Wales!  And getting to the A465 is not exactly easy either.  It doesn't link directly to any motorways, for example.  Not sure that's proof of the top end of the Gwent valleys having the infrastructure to host pro sport.

Your so ignorant. You really should try leaving Newport once in a while. You are worse than PhilBB for your arrogance about anything north of the M4. Rolling Eyes

We are not the 3rd world up here mind.

You're showing your ignorance now - I currently work in Pontypridd and my previous job was working in the Objective 1/Communities 1st areas of Gwent (most of which focused on Blaenau Gwent and the Heads of the Valleys) in education and community development. So I know the area well and have worked there extensively to try to make the area better. And spending a lot of time driving around the area I know all too well the transport links and networks. Oh, and my family is from Blaina so we visit relatives in the area too.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:44 am

The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement.  And I've answered that.  It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently.  It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement.  The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me.  And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are.  That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence.  If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!  

So I've answered your questions, thanks.




I was referring to this.

OK.  Would I refer to it as the sticks?  With tongue in cheek, yes.  But a better answer would be to say it is a pretty remote in comparison to other areas in the region and other areas of South Wales (e.g. where other regions are based).  You mention the A465 as being a good transport link/infrastructure.  However, it doesn't really join anywhere of note (in the Dragons region).  They're all small towns and villages between Abergavenny and Merthyr.  The biggest place on the A465 is Hereford which isn't even in Wales!  And getting to the A465 is not exactly easy either.  It doesn't link directly to any motorways, for example.  Not sure that's proof of the top end of the Gwent valleys having the infrastructure to host pro sport.

Your so ignorant. You really should try leaving Newport once in a while. You are worse than PhilBB for your arrogance about anything north of the M4. Rolling Eyes

We are not the 3rd world up here mind.

You're showing your ignorance now - I currently work in Pontypridd and my previous job was working in the Objective 1/Communities 1st areas of Gwent (most of which focused on Blaenau Gwent and the Heads of the Valleys) in education and community development.  So I know the area well and have worked there extensively to try to make the area better.  And spending a lot of time driving around the area I know all too well the transport links and networks.  Oh, and my family is from Blaina so we visit relatives in the area too.

Then you would know only too well that it is not as bad up here as you are portraying. So why insinuate the valley towns in such a way ?

Shame on you for behaving in such a way. warning

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Stone Motif on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:56 am

The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement.  And I've answered that.  It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently.  It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement.  The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me.  And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are.  That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence.  If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!  

So I've answered your questions, thanks.




I was referring to this.

OK.  Would I refer to it as the sticks?  With tongue in cheek, yes.  But a better answer would be to say it is a pretty remote in comparison to other areas in the region and other areas of South Wales (e.g. where other regions are based).  You mention the A465 as being a good transport link/infrastructure.  However, it doesn't really join anywhere of note (in the Dragons region).  They're all small towns and villages between Abergavenny and Merthyr.  The biggest place on the A465 is Hereford which isn't even in Wales!  And getting to the A465 is not exactly easy either.  It doesn't link directly to any motorways, for example.  Not sure that's proof of the top end of the Gwent valleys having the infrastructure to host pro sport.

Your so ignorant. You really should try leaving Newport once in a while. You are worse than PhilBB for your arrogance about anything north of the M4. Rolling Eyes

We are not the 3rd world up here mind.

You're showing your ignorance now - I currently work in Pontypridd and my previous job was working in the Objective 1/Communities 1st areas of Gwent (most of which focused on Blaenau Gwent and the Heads of the Valleys) in education and community development.  So I know the area well and have worked there extensively to try to make the area better.  And spending a lot of time driving around the area I know all too well the transport links and networks.  Oh, and my family is from Blaina so we visit relatives in the area too.
Lol
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by munkian on Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:59 am

Careful Oracle, Lord Dullard is the Ho chi Min of the VCs... boxing
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:01 am

munkian wrote:Careful Oracle, Lord Dullard is the Ho chi Min of the VCs... boxing

I bet you do not even know who they are. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by munkian on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:02 am

LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Careful Oracle, Lord Dullard is the Ho chi Min of the VCs... boxing

I bet you do not even know who they are. Rolling Eyes

Specifically ?
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:07 am

munkian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Careful Oracle, Lord Dullard is the Ho chi Min of the VCs... boxing

I bet you do not even know who they are. Rolling Eyes

Specifically ?

Yes.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by munkian on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:09 am

LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Careful Oracle, Lord Dullard is the Ho chi Min of the VCs... boxing

I bet you do not even know who they are. Rolling Eyes

Specifically ?

Yes.

No you helmet, who am I unaware of ?
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by BamBam on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:13 am

Old Lordy making friends again is he Laugh

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:16 am

munkian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Careful Oracle, Lord Dullard is the Ho chi Min of the VCs... boxing

I bet you do not even know who they are. Rolling Eyes

Specifically ?

Yes.

No you helmet, who am I unaware of ?

Valley Commandos. Who else would I refer to as they out of your sentence ? OK

Still keep up with the insults, you really are classy on here. You are worse than marty the Irish member. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by RiscaGame on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:34 am

The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement.  And I've answered that.  It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently.  It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement.  The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me.  And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are.  That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence.  If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!  

So I've answered your questions, thanks.




I was referring to this.

OK.  Would I refer to it as the sticks?  With tongue in cheek, yes.  But a better answer would be to say it is a pretty remote in comparison to other areas in the region and other areas of South Wales (e.g. where other regions are based).  You mention the A465 as being a good transport link/infrastructure.  However, it doesn't really join anywhere of note (in the Dragons region).  They're all small towns and villages between Abergavenny and Merthyr.  The biggest place on the A465 is Hereford which isn't even in Wales!  And getting to the A465 is not exactly easy either.  It doesn't link directly to any motorways, for example.  Not sure that's proof of the top end of the Gwent valleys having the infrastructure to host pro sport.

Your so ignorant. You really should try leaving Newport once in a while. You are worse than PhilBB for your arrogance about anything north of the M4. Rolling Eyes

We are not the 3rd world up here mind.

You're showing your ignorance now - I currently work in Pontypridd and my previous job was working in the Objective 1/Communities 1st areas of Gwent (most of which focused on Blaenau Gwent and the Heads of the Valleys) in education and community development. So I know the area well and have worked there extensively to try to make the area better. And spending a lot of time driving around the area I know all too well the transport links and networks. Oh, and my family is from Blaina so we visit relatives in the area too.

That's priceless to read the man that loves his Cardiff "mates" referring to him as LORD Dowlais, moaning about perceived snobbery/arrogance. The double standards are shocking.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by The Oracle on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:11 pm

The Beeb reporting that Shaun Edwards will now work exclusively with the Ospreys, after previously saying he’d be doing work with the Dragons next season (and Blues as well I think). He’s been poached!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45190125
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by The Oracle on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:37 pm

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Last edited by The Oracle on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by The Oracle on Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:LD, I’ll just reiterate my point and will probably leave it there as we could go back and forth for ever:

It is MY view that when you move to a regional/provincial model like we have done in Wales, and like they have in Ireland, NZ, Aus and SA, you should base the side in the biggest population area of that region or province for obvious commercial reasons and benefits. Look at the other regional/provincial sides and see where they’re based: Buenos Aires, Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Tokyo, Aukland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Galway. These are all the major cities/population centres of these regions and provinces. Why should the Dragons buck this global trend and move everything to Ebbw Vale or Cross Keys or Pontypool when the rest of the world is doing the opposite?

As I said previously, taking a game on the road is fine but doing it just once seems like a token gesture and the fans (e.g. in Ebbw Vale) can see straight through it, but taking a more meaningful (for the Ebbw fans) amount of games on the road will damage income and revenues so we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. It’s a little tough on people who do not have it on their doorsteps, I admit, but the businesses need to hedge their bets and go for what they calculate will have the best chance of working. They’ll have done all of the business cases, etc. so it’s not like they’re sticking their fingers in the air or just sticking a pin in the map. And believe it or not they’re not deliberately trying to p*ss the people of the valleys off. But just like many other areas of industry which have left the valleys or will not locate there, the Valleys isn’t always the best place to locate, even if that is a difficult thought to swallow.


Nice dodging of the questions put towards you. Rolling Eyes

The only questions you asked (i.e. with question marks at the end) were about entitlement.  And I've answered that.  It's entitlement to demand regional rugby where it is not based currently.  It is LUCK that I have it on my doorstep, not entitlement.  The WRU chose to base one region in Newport, not me.  And my post above lays out my reasons why I think it should be in the biggest population centre in Gwent rather than elsewhere in the region, so again explaining why it is not me feeling entitled to it but me feeling it should be where the best commercial opportunities are.  That I happen to live there is a happy coincidence.  If I moved to Bristol I wouldn't demand the Dragons leave Newport for Bristol so it is on my doorstep!  

So I've answered your questions, thanks.




I was referring to this.

OK.  Would I refer to it as the sticks?  With tongue in cheek, yes.  But a better answer would be to say it is a pretty remote in comparison to other areas in the region and other areas of South Wales (e.g. where other regions are based).  You mention the A465 as being a good transport link/infrastructure.  However, it doesn't really join anywhere of note (in the Dragons region).  They're all small towns and villages between Abergavenny and Merthyr.  The biggest place on the A465 is Hereford which isn't even in Wales!  And getting to the A465 is not exactly easy either.  It doesn't link directly to any motorways, for example.  Not sure that's proof of the top end of the Gwent valleys having the infrastructure to host pro sport.

Your so ignorant. You really should try leaving Newport once in a while. You are worse than PhilBB for your arrogance about anything north of the M4. Rolling Eyes

We are not the 3rd world up here mind.

You're showing your ignorance now - I currently work in Pontypridd and my previous job was working in the Objective 1/Communities 1st areas of Gwent (most of which focused on Blaenau Gwent and the Heads of the Valleys) in education and community development.  So I know the area well and have worked there extensively to try to make the area better.  And spending a lot of time driving around the area I know all too well the transport links and networks.  Oh, and my family is from Blaina so we visit relatives in the area too.

Then you would know only too well that it is not as bad up here as you are portraying. So why insinuate the valley towns in such a way ?

Shame on you for behaving in such a way. warning

It’s lovely up the valleys. Truly beautiful for the most part. I’m into my outdoors activities such as cycling and hiking and the countryside and scenery is absolutely stunning. The people are lovely too, by and large (apart from that guy that owns the carpet business Wink ) But that doesn’t mean I have to think it is also the regional Mecca for commerce and industry. It simply is not. The high rates of unemployment and deprivation demonstrate that the valleys struggle to attract business. It’s sad but true.

So I’m not portraying it to be bad. The valleys have many, many qualities. But from a pro sport point of view it is not as strong a draw as others areas - the area has much lower population density, much higher unemployment, people with much less disposable income, poorer transport links to other major cities in Wales and the UK, etc. Don’t blame me for that. And don’t make out the Dragons board or the WRU as some sort of criminals for not moving a team there. It’s must not as good an option as other places in the region. We see similar things happening in Newport too, to be honest, with lots of other stuff being very Cardiff-centric in terms of Welsh Government investment. It’s just life.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:00 pm

The Oracle wrote:The Beeb reporting that Shaun Edwards will now work exclusively with the Ospreys, after previously saying he’d be doing work with the Dragons next season (and Blues as well I think). He’s been poached!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45190125

It's fine. Our defence was excellent last season.

Crying or Very sad

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by RiscaGame on Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:09 pm

We have no excuses now. We have players that are "ready to go". I am sure Hendre will whip them into shape.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:03 pm

Was it ever announced officially that he'd be working with the Dragons, or was it just something Gatland said at a press conference? Either way it's a bit shabby.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by munkian on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:16 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Was it ever announced officially that he'd be working with the Dragons, or was it just something Gatland said at a press conference? Either way it's a bit shabby.

We couldn't afford him apparently, I'm guessing him to going to Wigan may have changed things too.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:58 pm

If it hadn't been finalised, it would have been better if Gatland hadn't said anything.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by RiscaGame on Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:07 pm

If you are like me, you will forget to read the Dragons website for news more often than not.

To summarise, Leon Brown is being rested another week. Tyler Morgan and Daf Howells involved, with Tavis Knoyle, Joe Davies and James Thomas on U23 duty.

http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/52665

Personally, I would start Brown on the bench anyway. I think Barrel deserves to keep his 3 shirt for the time being, despite us being in a new season.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by munkian on Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:12 pm

RiscaGame wrote:If you are like me, you will forget to read the Dragons website for news more often than not.

To summarise, Leon Brown is being rested another week. Tyler Morgan and Daf Howells involved, with Tavis Knoyle, Joe Davies and James Thomas on U23 duty.

http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/52665

Personally, I would start Brown on the bench anyway. I think Barrel deserves to keep his 3 shirt for the time being, despite us being in a new season.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:17 pm

Brown would have more impact from the bench than the Barrel too.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Stone Motif on Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:18 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Brown would have more impact from the bench than the Barrel too.

If we had to defend an offensive scrum 5 in the 79th minute I'd want barrel on the pitch not Brown.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:56 pm

Well he's either on for 60 minutes' worth of scrums, or for 20 minutes' worth.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by Stone Motif on Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:38 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Well he's either on for 60 minutes' worth of scrums, or for 20 minutes' worth.

Yeah I'd rather go hell for leather and rack up a score in the first 60 and try and close it out over 20 than try and chase the game after losing for 60, still don't think we've got the personal for that
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by RiscaGame on Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:53 am

Dragons team v Saints: Jordan Williams, Joe Goodchild, Adam Warren, Jack Dixon (c), George Gasson, Josh Lewis, Rhodri Williams, Ryan Bevington, Richard Hibbard, Brok Harris, Matthew Screech, Rynard Landman, Aaron Wainwright, Nic Cudd, Lewis Evans

Replacements Gerard Ellis, Rhys Lawrence, Lloyd Fairbrother, Brandon Nansen, Huw Taylor, James Benjamin, Rhodri Davies, Jacob Botica, Tiaan Loots, Tyler Morgan, Dafydd Howells, Will Talbot-Davies

Not sure why Brok is back on the tight. Not too bad a team though.

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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by PhilBB on Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

What a typical backward way of thinking by the general entitled pro rugby fan in Wales.

Firstly, Ebbw Vale is not exactly "the sticks" as you put it. It has decent infrastructure as far as accessibility is concerned with a brand new train station just around the corner from EXP and direct access to the A465.

Secondly, no wonder the Pro14 is struggling outside the towns and cities where the fab four are based. Fans do not feel part of their regions north of the M4. Lets make it worst by not playing any games up there, because the privileged elite do not want to travel to the sticks.

Lastly, I bet you would get a decent crowd at EXP just as you did at Cross keys, but lets not allow the local Ebbw Vale people enjoy some pro rugby, as the fans from the big cities and the surrounding areas cannot be bothered to travel 30 miles. FFS.Rolling Eyes  

You might all think that the Pro14 is doing well, within your own bubbles, but lets face facts, outside the area's the four regions are based, bar the odd two or three people, it is struggling.

For the Pro rugby to take off in Wales, we need ALL of Wales to feel part of it, not just the M4 corridor.

Now let's see the red bar brigade attack me on here without giving a decent response. Let the insults begin. picard

There was a game at EXP last season.

Cockerill noted that the facilities were below what is expected in the professional game.

Also, you will never get "ALL of Wales" to feel part of anything, other than Team Wales.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by PhilBB on Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:04 pm

The Oracle wrote:
Why do you think the WRU focused on the M4 corridor, at the expense of the South Wales valleys, when it forced regional rugby on us? It’s pro sport. It needs to be commercially viable. If playing games ‘up the valleys’ would attract crowds over and above what the regions attract in the cities then the regions would do it. So it’s not about ‘entitlement’ (that’s just one of those words bandied about these days by the eternally offended, of which you are clearly one). It’s about what the owners think will work.

Like I said in my post, which you’ve selectively cropped, I am a fan of the regional approach. I’m not longing for a return to clubs. I want our pro teams to represent a region. However, I do not feel we need to go to small areas of the region to please a small number of disgruntled people. That’s not entitlement. Just as me thinking Crusaders in NZ not going out to areas in their region such as Tasman for Super Rugby games is not entitlement either.

a) the WRU didn't focus on the M4 corridor. The clubs themselves chose the 5 team solution
b) the WRU didn't force regional rugby on us. The clubs themselves chose to merge or standalone
c) our pro teams cannot "represent a region" in such a geographically small area as South Wales. It's simply impossible.
d) the financial argument you make, however, is spot on.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by PhilBB on Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:06 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Well then, if that is the case, which I do not think it is, then stop referring to anywhere outside of Newport as "the sticks".

You do realise that Ebbw Vale has roughly the same population as a town from the west of Wales that hosts a so called region don't you ? It is not beyond the realms of belief that Ebbw could attract just as big a crowd as you do at Rodney Parade, or as the Scarlets do at Llanelli. Would you refer to Llanelli as "the sticks"

Also, to have said it is not about entitlement, then why are you saying it does not make sense to play games on the road because it's a ball ache ? Why should you be entitled to have pro rugby on your doorstep and others not ? Is it not a ball ache for people up the valleys to travel to the cities every week ?

Ebbw Vale doesn't have Wales' second largest city within 12 miles.

The answer to your point is simple: population density. Games are played where the population is at its most dense and where there is financial support to do so.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

Post by PhilBB on Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:07 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Here's a riddle for the perennially thick. The WRU could have moved the Dragons lock stock to Ebbw Vale, not spent a penny on sorting out the pitch at Dave, and probably made a few quid selling the ground on their way out. They chose to stay in Newport. Food for thought?

And here's the answer: they grabbed the land of Dave Parade for a song.
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Re: Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

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