The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

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The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by Pot Hale on Sat 07 Jul 2018, 4:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

A new thread to continue the tracking of where the multi-country Championship is heading.

With the TV deals done for Ireland, UK, Italy and South Africa, PRO14 quietly announced their deal for tapping other broadcast markets around the world with rights partner, RDA, who already have the Heineken Cup and English Premiership in their stable.  

Here’s extract from what the PRO14 press release said:  

Guinness PRO14 is the first rugby union championship to host clubs from the traditional rugby powers in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, with teams from South Africa competing against the top sides from Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy.....

....RDA’s focus will be on growing revenues in core markets as well as increasing the Guinness PRO14’s global footprint. Current media agreements in host markets secured by PRO14 include eir sport in Ireland, Premier Sports in the UK and Super Sport in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Martin Anayi, CEO, Guinness PRO14 commented: “It’s an incredible time in the Guinness PRO14 with our expansion into South Africa, the success of our clubs in Europe and the confirmation of our new broadcast partners in Ireland and the UK. Every season the biggest names in world rugby take to the pitch in our Championship guided by some of the sharpest minds in the game providing imaginative, high-intensity match-ups which make for compulsive viewing.

“The Guinness PRO14 is one of the most talked about rugby properties in the world right now and it’s the perfect time to join forces with RDA who have a track record of success when it comes to sports media rights. With brands such as Premiership Rugby, Champions Cup and European Challenge Cup in their portfolio we can ensure that rugby fans will feel a part of the Guinness PRO14 action no matter where they are.”

...,Richard Dennis, CEO, RDA commented: “The Guinness PRO14 is an action-packed tournament. With a global-playing base of 300 players capped at full international level, and 100 top players from countries such as New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and the Pacific Islands, PRO14 will have a worldwide appeal to rugby fans. It also boasts some impressive stats, 1.3 million attendees last season and games averaging 5.9 tries, so it’s no surprise scoring has risen for the fifth year in a row. We’re very much excited to be working with the Guinness PRO14.”

RDA adds the Guinness PRO14 to a strong rugby portfolio covering the newly sponsored Champions Cup, European Challenge Cup, Premiership Rugby, Betfred Super League and the RFL International Test Series.

Anayi in another pre-season general interview said that PRO16 would be the ideal size for the Championship that would allow less regular season games to be played and avoid test windows. It’s likely the final two spots would go to two more SA teams - likely from Super Rugby before the start of its new Sanzaar TV contract in 2020.

Anayi also mentioned that they were bringing in a new programme to allow them employ professional referees directly on their elite refs panel.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 6:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by Jenifer McLadyboy on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:09 pm

From your favourite Welsh news website.

Whales Offline wrote:Who is showing what next season?

Six Nations: BBC and ITV have the joint rights to the tournament until the end of the 2021 Championship, with S4C also showing all Wales matches.

Wales autumn matches: The BBC has the rights for the 2018 autumn internationals, but that will be the final year of their current deal. Sky Sports are currently favourites to take over the live matches.

Wales' World Cup warm-up matches: Fixtures and TV deals yet to be officially confirmed

Rugby World Cup: ITV has the rights to World Cup matches in 2019 and 2023

European Champions Cup and Challenge Cup: BT Sports have the paid-for TV rights to themselves from 2018 until 2022, with Sky Sports no longer part of the equation. Channel Four are also showing nine live Champions Cup matches

PRO14: Pay TV channel Premier Sports have the rights and will also show one match every weekend on their free channel, FreeSports. S4C could yet also be part of the equation.

Aviva Premiership: BT Sport has the rights, with Channel 5 able to show five live matches and a weekly highlights show.

So not too dear this season if you have BT for Broadband. £10 PM for everything.

If you don't have BT Broadband it could be expensive to see ALL the Euro games.

I just went down the pub or to someone else's house when games were on BT in the last few years.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:13 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Some people say that fans of pro14 teams can ditch sky if they want to now - but the reality is, that many pro14 fans are also rugby fans - and want to watch super rugby and other test matches on sky sports. That's when it gets expensive.

Sorry what's your point? You keep complaining as if you expect something for nothing, what exactly do you think is the solution here?

The point is, it's expensive to get all the sports channels. Because there's now so many of them. Whoever thought that breaking up Sky Sports' monopoly on broadcasting sports was a good idea didn't really think through the consequences for the consumer.

I expect you'll find something to disagree strongly with in this post though. Such is your penchant for starting a cyber fight, given the terrifying rock hard internet warrior you are.

picard

Was your complaint last week that your hobby was to follow your own club? When I pointed out you could go to a Wales match etc you said they aren't your club so now you are complaining about Super Rugby and Wales games?

If you are going to complain about others picking cyber fights it might be a good idea not to contradict yourself constantly and it seems when one complaint is shown to be off the mark, as shown by how little difference there will be in prices for European and Pro14 games you go and change your complaint and add more problems you have with it that didn't seem to exist previously.

As for Wales games, were they not all on FTA in 2018?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:22 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Was your complaint last week that your hobby was to follow your own club? When I pointed out you could go to a Wales match etc you said they aren't your club so now you are complaining about Super Rugby and Wales games?

No. Please read again. I don't watch super rugby.


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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:23 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Was your complaint last week that your hobby was to follow your own club? When I pointed out you could go to a Wales match etc you said they aren't your club so now you are complaining about Super Rugby and Wales games?

No. Please read again. I don't watch super rugby.


lease read again, I never said you did Rolling Eyes

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:25 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Was your complaint last week that your hobby was to follow your own club? When I pointed out you could go to a Wales match etc you said they aren't your club so now you are complaining about Super Rugby and Wales games?

No. Please read again. I don't watch super rugby.


lease read again, I never said you did Rolling Eyes

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Amazing.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:27 pm

So no answer to what you think the solution is or to the question on Wales games all being on FTA?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:31 pm

marty2086 wrote:So no answer to what you think the solution is or to the question on Wales games all being on FTA?

From the post above - the rights seem to be up for sale to some of the tests, so we could see those games being on sky or BT very soon. There's even a new sports channel about to be broadcast in the next few months called Eleven Sports - that means if you like combat sports of Euroepan soccer, it's another tenner a month.

The solution? To what? There is no solution - it's expensive to get the sports channels. That's a statement not a request for information.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:36 pm

So you just come on here to complain then and offer nothing constructive?

The question was, were all Wales games on FTA in 2018? Yes or no?

Here's another one, how many Test matches have BT shown in their history?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:49 pm

marty2086 wrote:So you just come on here to complain then and offer nothing constructive?

Very Happy

I picture you as about 4 foot 9. Are you short?

The question was, were all Wales games on FTA in 2018? Yes or no?

A quick check reveals they were all on free to air. I'm pretty sure you could have googled that, lazybones.

Here's another one, how many Test matches have BT shown in their history?

Again, Google may be your friend here.



Happy to help.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by BamBam on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:50 pm

Next year's Pro 14 final is at Celtic Park

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/kennedymarisa760/pro14-celtic-park-2019-final/

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:57 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:So you just come on here to complain then and offer nothing constructive?

Very Happy

I picture you as about 4 foot 9. Are you short?

The question was, were all Wales games on FTA in 2018? Yes or no?

A quick check reveals they were all on free to air. I'm pretty sure you could have googled that, lazybones.

Here's another one, how many Test matches have BT shown in their history?

Again, Google may be your friend here.



Happy to help.

I'm not asking for me, I'm asking for you to go educate yourself as I'm aware of the answers to the questions. BT have never shown a test game. If they did next year in the run up to the RWC then surely someone who subscribed for the European games would not have to pay extra and if Sky show any you can pay £10 or whatever it is for a month to get Sky Sports action that covers rugby

So seems if Google was your friend you'd have a little less complaining to do Mr Meldrew

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by St John The Enforcer on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 12:59 pm

Had a look at Leinster's fixtures for the rest of 2018.

The only away games that are not on FTA are Treviso, Kings and Munster.

Given that you can drive to Limerick and the other 2 are not big games you could get by with no sub on Pro14 games.

Home games you can go to and get replays on line.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:03 pm

BamBam wrote:Next year's Pro 14 final is at Celtic Park

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/kennedymarisa760/pro14-celtic-park-2019-final/

Great to see, if they can get an atmosphere half of what Celtic get for big games could be a great advertisement for the league

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by St John The Enforcer on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:05 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Very Happy

I picture you as about 4 foot 9. Are you short?

He pictures you in a negligee

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:06 pm

BamBam wrote:Next year's Pro 14 final is at Celtic Park

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/kennedymarisa760/pro14-celtic-park-2019-final/

The same day as the Scottish Cup final football at Hampden Park Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:08 pm

Something a bit more depressing, seems the Kings are in a bad way when it comes to being ready for the new season. Hopefully the other SA and Pro14 teams will do something to help them out, could be an opportunity for young players to go get some game time

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/PRO14/kings-face-recurring-nightmare-in-pro14-20180729-2

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:12 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:

Very Happy

I picture you as about 4 foot 9. Are you short?

He pictures you in a negligee

Speak for yourself, it's usually more in a basement surrounded by jars of his own urine wearing a mask of Phil I picture him

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:25 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

So not too dear this season if you have BT for Broadband. £10 PM for everything.


Are you sure about that?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:29 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

So not too dear this season if you have BT for Broadband. £10 PM for everything.


Are you sure about that?

£9.99 if you want to be overly pedantic

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:33 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

So not too dear this season if you have BT for Broadband. £10 PM for everything.


Are you sure about that?

£9.99 if you want to be overly pedantic

Is Premier sports free on BT Broadband then? I may have to consider swapping if so.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:34 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

So not too dear this season if you have BT for Broadband. £10 PM for everything.


Are you sure about that?

£9.99 if you want to be overly pedantic

Is Premier sports free on BT Broadband then? I may have to consider swapping if so.

That's where the £9.99/£10 figure comes from because you have to pay that price to get Premier Rolling Eyes

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 1:38 pm

I see. Not a bad deal that. Assuming the broadband is nice and fast.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by St John The Enforcer on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 4:02 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:Had a look at Leinster's fixtures for the rest of 2018.

The only away games that are not on FTA are Treviso, Kings and Munster.

Given that you can drive to Limerick and the other 2 are not big games you could get by with no sub on Pro14 games.

Home games you can go to and get replays on line.

Also notice that only 4 fixtures in the entire season do not have a date against them. AND only one fixture is on a 6 Nations weekend.

That's got to be a few steps in the right direction.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 4:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

So not too dear this season if you have BT for Broadband. £10 PM for everything.


Are you sure about that?

£9.99 if you want to be overly pedantic

Is Premier sports free on BT Broadband then? I may have to consider swapping if so.

That's where the £9.99/£10 figure comes from because you have to pay that price to get Premier Rolling Eyes

Take it from someone with BT broadband that is NOT true.  I go the phone, and broadband with BT, I get a BT sports (app only) and there is no free premier sports.


EDIT: I misread what was being said. I’ll leave my original comment up there, so I don’t get “you changed what you said” etc. But I read it as BT had premier sports so was part of the same deal, again my bad sorry.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by PhilBB on Mon 30 Jul 2018, 5:06 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Some people say that fans of pro14 teams can ditch sky if they want to now - but the reality is, that many pro14 fans are also rugby fans - and want to watch super rugby and other test matches on sky sports. That's when it gets expensive.

Sorry what's your point? You keep complaining as if you expect something for nothing, what exactly do you think is the solution here?

The point is, it's expensive to get all the sports channels. Because there's now so many of them. Whoever thought that breaking up Sky Sports' monopoly on broadcasting sports was a good idea didn't really think through the consequences for the consumer.

I expect you'll find something to disagree strongly with in this post though. Such is your penchant for starting a cyber fight, given the terryfying rock hard internet warrior you are.

Hehe
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 1:48 am

Somewhere, inside the English RFU, a penny has finally dropped.

From the Daily Telegraph:


England’s top clubs have been warned that the soaring inflation in players’ salaries is no longer sustainable, with the Rugby Football Union predicting a significant downturn in funding to the Premiership because of the tough economic climate.

The increase in the salary cap to £7 million at the start of last season, and the ability for the clubs to exclude two ‘marquee’ players from that cap, has seen wages rise sharply in the last two seasons, including Bristol’s £1m-per-year record signing of Charles Piutau.

Salary inflation has also been driven by the increase in funding to the 12 Premiership clubs from the Rugby Football Union, which agreed to pay a fixed four-year payment of £112m as part of an eight-year deal struck in 2016 to secure greater access to the England players.

However, 11 of the 12 Premiership clubs still posted losses last year and suffered combined losses of around £20m.

Now the clubs have been warned by the RFU that the level of the second four-year payment from 2020 could fall as it is dependent on the financial performance of the RFU as part of a model called "rugby revenue share partnership".

The RFU, which increased its own payments to England players per Test match (including image rights and training fees) by around 30 per cent in 2016 from £17,000 to £22,000, is currently in the midst of making at least 62 people redundant as part of a cost-cutting exercise to save up to £3m a year.

The cutbacks have been forced because of the rise of their fixed costs, including player salaries and the deal with the clubs, and the RFU is now warning that the tough financial climate is likely to lead to a fall in future funding to the clubs – making high salary rises for players unsustainable.

“The good thing about the PGA (professional game agreement) which we put in as a safety net was that the income part of it becomes flexible after the first four years to move with our finances,” said RFU chief executive Steve Brown. “So if our income comes down, so does the agreement payment. So it doesn’t cause us a problem forever, it is just within the next two years.

“They (the clubs) are already aware. That has always been the case. I guess from the club point of view they have looked at securing their revenues for four years... they are full informed.”

Brown defended the governing body’s decision to make the England squad the highest-paid players in world rugby but admitted that future salary levels had to become more realistic.

“England can afford the England player salaries, but lots of countries can’t afford to keep their players within the country,” said Brown. “You can argue the French and the English markets have driven that inflation.

“It is not sustainable for those clubs either - our wage caps are really important - I don’t see the same level of inflation, there is not enough money in the system... unless we see something radical commercially.

“Certainly in England, and France as well, that salary inflation has gone beyond the affordability of clubs - some clubs - and some nations as well.

“That is a challenge that we have in the game as a whole. The England piece specifically; it is high but reasonably well contained. There is a reasonable performance element to it as well, they (the players) tend to earn more when they’re performing as well.”


What’s interesting is the revealed detail around the deal with the clubs.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 8:23 am

Pot - I saw something on the news the other day about the RFU aiming to have it Women’s league as fully professional by the start of next season, and the bloke that was interviewed said something about money will have to be found in order to do this. I wonder if this is a two birds with one stone situation, trying to make clubs more responsible but reducing funding to those who are not ‘financially responsible’ under the guise of ‘sustainablity’ whilst using that to free up cash for the women’s game?
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 8:53 am

Pot Hale wrote:
What’s interesting is the revealed detail around the deal with the clubs.  

That was published at the time of the deal. There's a pdf somewhere on the RFU website that has as much detail in it as the article.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 9:30 am

Hopefully it'll force unions and clubs across the board to look harder at their business models and to work on growing the game more

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 9:56 am

marty2086 wrote:Hopefully it'll force unions and clubs across the board to look harder at their business models and to work on growing the game more

What elements of their business models do you think the PRL clubs in England should change?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by St John The Enforcer on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 10:04 am

I think the Unions should avoid the 4th Autumn International and any out of window tests and the Leagues should put smaller competitions or less significant fixtures on during 6N or try and avoid them altogether. Pro14 managed just 1 game on a 6N weekend this season.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 10:33 am

St John The Enforcer wrote:I think the Unions should avoid the 4th Autumn International and any out of window tests

That's asking organisations like the WRU if they'd prefer to have £4m or not. It should be taken out of their hands by World Rugby and only tests within the windows should be allowed.

and the Leagues should put smaller competitions or less significant fixtures on during 6N or try and avoid them altogether. Pro14 managed just 1 game on a 6N weekend this season.

I'm not sure how you quantify a fixture as "less significant". I'm all for not playing league fixtures on test rugby weekends - as long as the amount of league fixtures throughout the season isn't reduced because of it. That completely defeats the object.

-How can we solve this fixture conundrum?
-By not playing the fixture at all!

Brainless.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 10:47 am

St John The Enforcer wrote:I think the Unions should avoid the 4th Autumn International and any out of window tests and the Leagues should put smaller competitions or less significant fixtures on during 6N or try and avoid them altogether. Pro14 managed just 1 game on a 6N weekend this season.
What a way to kill cash flow. And income.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 10:51 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Hopefully it'll force unions and clubs across the board to look harder at their business models and to work on growing the game more

What elements of their business models do you think the PRL clubs in England should change?

I said rugby clubs across the board not just England

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 10:58 am

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Hopefully it'll force unions and clubs across the board to look harder at their business models and to work on growing the game more

What elements of their business models do you think the PRL clubs in England should change?

I said rugby clubs across the board not just England

So if clubs need to "look harder at their business models" - can you explain what it is they need to amend in their business models?

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:00 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Hopefully it'll force unions and clubs across the board to look harder at their business models and to work on growing the game more

What elements of their business models do you think the PRL clubs in England should change?

I said rugby clubs across the board not just England

So if clubs need to "look harder at their business models" - can you explain what it is they need to amend in their business models?

Well since tv revenue and union revenue will take a hit I'd say they need to find away to increase revenue out side of those streams

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:02 am

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Hopefully it'll force unions and clubs across the board to look harder at their business models and to work on growing the game more

What elements of their business models do you think the PRL clubs in England should change?

I said rugby clubs across the board not just England

So if clubs need to "look harder at their business models" - can you explain what it is they need to amend in their business models?

Well since tv revenue and union revenue will take a hit I'd say they need to find away to increase revenue out side of those streams

There's been no confirmation that TV revenue will take a hit at all.

Even if there is, the business model will just do what it has always done. Which is the same way pro sport is funded across the world.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by Brendan on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:02 am

Not sure if I am understanding it correctly that 112m for 4 years over 12 clubs is similar to what the WRU are paying.

Don't the unions control WR so they can vote to extent the international windows and ban club games for second tier of Rugby (Pro14, Super etc) during those windows. I actually expect when the calender is approved that there will be four weeks for AIs. Only RFU & FFR would object from what I can see. If 4m is right for WRU, they could give €500k to each region covering their loss of a game while still being 2m to cover themselves.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:07 am

Brendan wrote:Not sure if I am understanding it correctly that 112m for 4 years over 12 clubs is similar to what the WRU are paying.

Paying for what? Player release?

Don't the unions control WR so they can vote to extent the international windows and ban club games for second tier of Rugby (Pro14, Super etc) during those windows.  I actually expect when the calender is approved that there will be four weeks for AIs.  Only RFU & FFR would object from what I can see.  If 4m is right for WRU, they could give €500k to each region covering their loss of a game while still being 2m to cover themselves.

I'm not sure the Unions control World Rugby. If they did then they would essentially be governing themselves, which is a dangerous road to be taking.

There are 4 weeks for AIs this coming season I think. But only because the weekends all fall in November.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by marty2086 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:14 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Hopefully it'll force unions and clubs across the board to look harder at their business models and to work on growing the game more

What elements of their business models do you think the PRL clubs in England should change?

I said rugby clubs across the board not just England

So if clubs need to "look harder at their business models" - can you explain what it is they need to amend in their business models?

Well since tv revenue and union revenue will take a hit I'd say they need to find away to increase revenue out side of those streams

There's been no confirmation that TV revenue will take a hit at all.

Even if there is, the business model will just do what it has always done. Which is the same way pro sport is funded across the world.

Do the same thing it's always done? Seriously?

Can add that to the list of things you are clueless on

Maybe you'd like to look at Man Utd, nearly half of their income for 2017 came through the commercial side of the business, a third came from tv revenue. Other clubs are following the same path.

Toulon have created cafes and stores that helped then become self sufficient.

Not to mention, clubs don't seem to do enough to grow the game which limits their reach and revenue potential. The reliance seems to be on unions to grow the game and a lot more could be done to bring people to the game which will help grow revenues across the board.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:18 am

Brendan wrote:Not sure if I am understanding it correctly that 112m for 4 years over 12 clubs is similar to what the WRU are paying.

No, it is drastically different.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:19 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:

I'm not sure the Unions control World Rugby. If they did then they would essentially be governing themselves, which is a dangerous road to be taking.

Of course they do. It's blazer central. I wonder how long until we get a Premiership-soccer style properly break in the game in England.

It's already being set up in Wales.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:20 am

marty2086 wrote:

Can add that to the list of things you are clueless on


Not to mention, clubs don't seem to do enough to grow the game which limits their reach and revenue potential. The reliance seems to be on unions to grow the game and a lot more could be done to bring people to the game which will help grow revenues across the board.

That's a stunning display of pure and complete ignorance.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by Brendan on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 5:55 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:Not sure if I am understanding it correctly that 112m for 4 years over 12 clubs is similar to what the WRU are paying.

No, it is drastically different.

I googled it it is a little bit different
WRU £60m over 6 years for 4 Region so £2.5m per region per year
RFU £122m over 4 years for 12 Clubs (I assume only Prem teams) so £2.33m per club per year

So near enough when considering the amounts. Or do you mean what they get for the money.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by Brendan on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 6:05 pm

PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:

I'm not sure the Unions control World Rugby. If they did then they would essentially be governing themselves, which is a dangerous road to be taking.

Of course they do. It's blazer central. I wonder how long until we get a Premiership-soccer style properly break in the game in England.

It's already being set up in Wales.

Most governing bodies are run by the regional/national/participating groups. Can you name a sport that is not run like that. Why would WR be run by people who answer to nobody and have no connection with the people they are meant to represent. The "Blazers" are working their way out anyway but it's not like that it is because randomness are coming and kicking them out and stealing their job.

From the outside it looks like the Union is having more not less control of Welsh Rugby unless you mean their are clubs below the regions that want to play outside WRU affiliated leagues. If this is true they are either mad or have a billionaire on board to fun it. I can't see games like Ponty v Bridgend with non professional players getting massive TV deals

But as always I am sure you are right

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by Brendan on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 6:15 pm

Also if the Prem teams cut ties with the RFU they would need to fund the gap in lost income.

The RFU would have £28m a year to fund 3-4 teams in the Pro XX that would be able to sign up a lot of top English players. Plus they would bring a good TV deal with them aswell.

Would fans of clubs who break from the union all follow their club if it was in defiance of the union.

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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by PhilBB on Thu 02 Aug 2018, 8:41 am

Brendan wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Brendan wrote:Not sure if I am understanding it correctly that 112m for 4 years over 12 clubs is similar to what the WRU are paying.

No, it is drastically different.

I googled it it is a little bit different
WRU £60m over 6 years for 4 Region so £2.5m per region per year
RFU £122m over 4 years for 12 Clubs (I assume only Prem teams) so £2.33m per club per year

So near enough when considering the amounts. Or do you mean what they get for the money.

Ah, my error. I misread your point. Apologies for that.

In 2016-17, the WRU paid £11.8m to the 4 pro teams, so a little more than £2.5m each.

Obviously the major difference is that there are only 4 clubs doing all of the work in Wales, compared to 12 in England, so the workload (i.e. effect) is significantly greater in Wales.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by PhilBB on Thu 02 Aug 2018, 8:45 am

Brendan wrote:

From the outside it looks like the Union is having more not less control of Welsh Rugby unless you mean their are clubs below the regions that want to play outside WRU affiliated leagues.  If this is true they are either mad or have a billionaire on board to fun it.  I can't see games like Ponty v Bridgend with non professional players getting massive TV deals

But as always I am sure you are right

You are confused.

In Wales, the game is being split in administrative terms between the pro and community. All of the money is in the pro game. There's none in the community game, so the pro game will pay the community game a fixed fee each year. Obviously, having strong grass roots is vital in order for the kids to get involved in M&J sections so the payment is worthwhile and vital.

However, there are some (as suggested in the recent Telegraph articles about the RFU, too) in the community game who think that the pro game and the national team belong to them. And that's the fight that is happening in England. Remember when PRL wanted to take control of Team England, away from the RFU? Well, that's the landscape being formed. Who owns the cash cow of international rugby? The pro game or the community clubs?

I think that Rugby League split its games many moons ago so, as ever, Union is just playing catch up.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by PhilBB on Thu 02 Aug 2018, 8:47 am

Brendan wrote:Also if the Prem teams cut ties with the RFU they would need to fund the gap in lost income.

The RFU would have £28m a year to fund 3-4 teams in the Pro XX that would be able to sign up a lot of top English players.  Plus they would bring a good TV deal with them aswell.

Would fans of clubs who break from the union all follow their club if it was in defiance of the union.

This comes down to Regulation 9 in many ways. It's already a complete joke and abused / ignored by many unions.

It'll be an interesting fight when it finally comes to a head.

But, as you pointed out above, the income lost to PRL would only be £2.3m per club. They could individually last longer without that income than the RFU could without having a full Twickenham to make money from.
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Re: The Future for the PRO14 - Part 6 - Pay TV, More SA Makes Sweet 16

Post by St John The Enforcer on Thu 02 Aug 2018, 11:03 am

Hopefully it doesn't come to all out war and it can settle into some kind of relationship between blazers and moneymen.

What's the story with this new fangled "Global season" that is supposed to come in post WC season? Has that been fully hammered out yet?

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