Leicester Tigers 18-19

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 11 Jul 2018, 11:53 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures

Pre-Season

Saturday 11th August - Cardiff Blues (a)
Friday 17th August - Benetton Treviso (a)
Friday 24th August - London Irish (h)

Gallagher Premiership

SEPTEMBER
Saturday 1st 16:30 Exeter Chiefs (a)
Saturday 8th 15:00 Newcastle Falcons (h)
Sunday 16th 15:00 Wasps (a)
Sunday 23rd 15:00 Worcester Warriors (h)
Sunday 30th 15:00 Sale Sharks (h)



OCTOBER

Saturday 6th 15:00 Northampton Saints (a - Twickenham)


NOVEMBER

Friday 16th 19:45 Gloucester (a)
Sunday 25th 15:00 Saracens (h)
Friday 30th 19:45 Bristol (a)


DECEMBER
21/22/23 Harlequins (H)
28/29/30 Bath (A)


JANUARY
4/5/6 Gloucester (H)


FEBRUARY
15/16/17 Saracens (A)
22/23/24 Worcester Warriors (A)



MARCH
1/2/3 Wasps (H)
8/9/10 Sale Sharks (A)
22/23/24 Northampton Saints (H)


APRIL
5/6/7 Exeter Chiefs (H)
12/13/14 Newcastle Falcons (A)
26/27/28 Bristol (H)


MAY
3/4/5 Harlequins (A)
18 Bath (H)
24/25 Semi


JUNE
1st Final


European Champions Cup
12/13/14 October - Round 1
19/20/21 October - Round 2
7/8/9 December - Round 3
14/15/16 December - Round 4
11/12/13 January - Round 5
18/19/20 January - Round 6
29/30/31 March - 1/4 Finals
19/20/21 April - Semis
11th May - Final


Premiership Rugby Cup

Saturday October 27th 15:00 Saracens (a)
Saturday November 3rd 15:00 Worcester Warriors(h)
Friday November 19th 19:45 Sale Sharks
January 25/26/27 Northampton (a)
February 9th Semi-finals
March 16th Final




Squad and Coaching Team:

Head Coach: Matt O'Connor
Forwards Coach: Mark Bakewell
Assistant Coach: Geordan Murphy
Scrum Coach: Boris Stankovich
Senior Development coach: Brett Deacon
Team Manager: Teresa Carrington
Head of Rugby Operations: Ged Glyn


First Team Squad:
(as on Tigers website)

Props: Greg Bateman, Dan Cole, Gaston Cortes, Ellis Genge, Facundo Gigena, Owen Hills
Hookers: Jake Kerr, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Jimmmy Stevens, Tom Youngs
Second Row: Mike Fitzgerald, Graham Kitchener, Will Spencer, James Voss, Harry Wells
Back Row: Dave Denton, Will Evans, Sione Kalamafoni, Valention Mapapalangi, Brendon O'Connor, Guy Thompson, Fred Tuilagi, Mike Williams

Half Backs: Joe Ford, George Ford, Sam Harrison, Matt Toomua, Ben Youngs
Outside Backs: Jonah Holmes, Jonny May, Gareth Owen, Matt Smith, Matthew Tait, Charlie Thacker, Adam Thompstone, Manu Tuilagi, Telusa Veainu, George Worth


Development Squad:

Forwards: Taylor Gough, Sam Grahamslaw, Joe Heyes, Cameron Jordan, Henri Lavin, Sam Lewis, Keston Lines, Harry Mahoney, Tommy Reffell, Thom Smith
Backs: Sam Aspland-Robinson, Tom Hardwicke, Jordan Olowefela, Harry Simmons, Ben White


Last edited by LondonTiger on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 7:27 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Gallagher Cup fixtures included)

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Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 8:11 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:I'd be interested to know which senior players because very few are playing anywhere near the level we expect of them. Really only Cole and George Ford can hold their heads high amongst the senior players.
I am amazed at that comment. Cole is a penalty machine and Ford has been poor.

Sounds like he's been watching the matches and you haven't.

Cole has been much better this season, he's won far more penalties than he's given away. Definitely not back to international quality but at premiership level he's been carrying the team at times with his work in the scrum.

Ford was arguably the in form English 10 before the break for internationals. Comfortably back to his best and was topping most of the stats for attacking play - and all that without a pack giving him a solid platform.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 8:49 pm

I did see some terrible journalism that suggested Cole was a penalty machine in the week. Worrying how some professional commentors of the sport can be so many months out of date. Cole's discipline has been outstanding this season, a rest over the summer has seen him look refreshed and he's destroying opposition looseheads. He's a bit old school so unlikely to be flavour of the month with the press but he's a rock for us and an ideal mentor for Heyes his eventual successor.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 08 Dec 2018, 8:55 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:I'd be interested to know which senior players because very few are playing anywhere near the level we expect of them. Really only Cole and George Ford can hold their heads high amongst the senior players.
I suspect the players may be the same ones that Burgess was talking about at the RWC. One of them went into a sulk for a season when he was at Bath.

Poor old May must be regretting leaving Gloucester. In am not sure Gloucester do with Thorley as a replacement who does not get called away for internationals - yet.

George had a sulk because the Bath player pressured the board into having his father sacked. He was unhappy in the changed environment and wanted to leave.

May has improved a fair bit since joining and seems to be relishing his development under Murphy. I suspect he's frustrated at how poorly the club's been playing but his individual performances have meant he's now a guaranteed starter for England and likely to have plenty of offers if he lets his contract run down.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 09 Dec 2018, 5:22 pm

Nigel Owens not a fan of pinging the home team is he.

A feast of attacking rugby. Best we've played this season. If we'd have played like that Vs Bristol then there's no chance we'd have lost.

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Post by nathan on Sun 09 Dec 2018, 5:48 pm

Owens was woeful, he needs to retire.
Doesn't help him with the tmo probably bring held hostage by the French tv director. How on earth the the arm bar tackle on Smith was ruled ok, that could be a career ending injury. Apparently the one on Holmes was nasty too.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 09 Dec 2018, 6:03 pm

The arm bar on Smith was a nasty one but it's a prop desperately trying to hold back a player breaking towards the try line. I don't think it was intentional.

Not seen the Holmes one but we got away with two or three seatbelt tackles so we're perhaps a touch lucky on that score. Annoyed that the turnover which gave Racing the possession leading up to the yellow card was such a terrible piece of the reffing. Looking back in that I think Owens will be disappointed in himself.

Much better from Tigers. That intensity and combative nature has been missing from the team for too long. Murphy will still be annoyed by a couple of silly errors but will at least be buoyed by the fact the messages from the coaches are finally sinking in. I liked the tactic of bringing on a more mobile pack late in the game knowing that things would break up with Racing having gone hard in the first half. On another day Owens isn't so quick to blow his whistle and the ball off of Evans face is allowed play on and we maybe grab another try.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 09 Dec 2018, 6:17 pm

I will ignore the inconsistencies in Owens reffing, as I am biased. 

However it is impossible to ignore the glaring mistakes, many due to him not being fit enough to officiate that type of game. He was constantly trying to get his breath, meaning he was in some really poor positions. At times he was serving as a blocker stopping us making passes, at others he was too far away to see what was going on.

He should retire.

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Post by eirebilly on Mon 10 Dec 2018, 11:20 am

I like Owens as a referee but he is starting to be very inconsistent which is a real shame. I honestly thought that he would retire a season or 2 ago in order to take up a role of referee development as he is by far and away the best communicating referee.


On the game, I am enjoying the Leicester approach under Murphy, I think he has them playing a more open and attacking style which the players seem more comfortable with. It wont happen overnight but the signs are there that Leicester are going to improve under him.


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Post by nathan on Mon 10 Dec 2018, 11:25 am

I agree we will, we just need to sort the defence out.

Owens struggled to keep up with the game. I would have Barnes above him for communication though but think Owens would be great for a ref development role

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Dec 2018, 11:42 am

eirebilly wrote:I like Owens as a referee but he is starting to be very inconsistent which is a real shame. I honestly thought that he would retire a season or 2 ago in order to take up a role of referee development as he is by far and away the best communicating referee.


On the game, I am enjoying the Leicester approach under Murphy, I think he has them playing a more open and attacking style which the players seem more comfortable with. It wont happen overnight but the signs are there that Leicester are going to improve under him.



They've got worse so far. Its at the point now where twice in the last three games people have been celebrating losses as a great step forward.

With the talent they have in the backs attack shouldn't be an issue. But the pack has been fragile and defensively they are very easily taken apart. No team in the premiership has leaked as many points, and theres only 5 teams who have scored less.
This time last year they'd won 6 premiership games, twice as many.
They havent won a game since Oct 19th and not in the premiership since Oct 6th. I dont think they've ever had a run of results so bad in the premiership era.

Realistically things can only get better, so OK yes it is likely to improve ...but theres a way to go to get back where they were last year let alone where they aspire to be ...competing for trophies. I personally dont see the signs thats happening soon. the season didnt start well, and its not got any better. The same issues prevail, discipline, shipping soft tries, and folding under pressure.

I have never been a MOC fan but I struggle to see why people have been so willing to overlook Murphys record. He was part of the set up that he inherited the mess from, and has been part of the set up through the years of decline. Whilst the squad has some issues hes still failing to get some very good players to perform to their potential.

Theres very little chance he will be able to make a case for retaining the job long term now. Crucially he doesnt seem to have the team fully onboard with what hes doing, too many times heads have dropped.


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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 10 Dec 2018, 2:06 pm

We've had a worse run of results. Record winless run saw the end of Cockers didn't it?

MOC came in and took control of defence and attack as he said he would in interviews. Geordan was an assistant and only in control during LV games. Geordan's comments about patching the boat week to week pretty much sums up what I assumed was going on.

If we build on this game and keep the intensity but add a little more organisation we will finish in the top 6. Unfortunately we've seen a good week followed by an appalling loss this season so my hopes aren't high.

I think our coaching setup is just too raw. Need another experienced head in the their to help guide us even if it is on a short term basis.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Dec 2018, 2:56 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:We've had a worse run of results. Record winless run saw the end of Cockers didn't it?

MOC came in and took control of defence and attack as he said he would in interviews. Geordan was an assistant and only in control during LV games. Geordan's comments about patching the boat week to week pretty much sums up what I assumed was going on.

If we build on this game and keep the intensity but add a little more organisation we will finish in the top 6. Unfortunately we've seen a good week followed by an appalling loss this season so my hopes aren't high.

I think our coaching setup is just too raw. Need another experienced head in the their to help guide us even if it is on a short term basis.

Cockerill was sacked after losing 5 of 12 premiership games, they've lost 6 already this year. Theyd"only lost 2 premiership games in a row when he was sacked.

Murphy was of course on the staff then too.

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Post by nathan on Mon 10 Dec 2018, 3:02 pm

I don't think the answer is sack the coach each time. Our attack looks good, our defence doesn't, we need an experienced defence coach.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 10 Dec 2018, 3:32 pm

It's alright saying Murphy was on the staff. He was a junior coach, it's debatable how much influence he had on the overall play. Mauger was very much wanting to control our attacking play when he was here and MOC openly declared he would look after both attack and defence.

This is Murphy's chance and it's a bit of a poison chalice given the mess we're in. The board have said they'll be no change in head coach until the summer at the earliest. I agree with Nathan, we need more experience in defence.

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 10 Dec 2018, 7:24 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I will ignore the inconsistencies in Owens reffing, as I am biased. 

However it is impossible to ignore the glaring mistakes, many due to him not being fit enough to officiate that type of game. He was constantly trying to get his breath, meaning he was in some really poor positions. At times he was serving as a blocker stopping us making passes, at others he was too far away to see what was going on.

He should retire.

His struggles keeping up were mentioned multiple times on the BT coverage, I wasn't listening to the radio coverage but apparently it was mentioned on that as well.

In 2015 he said that he wanted to keep reffing international rugby for a further 4 years, presumably viewing the 2019 RWC as his swansong. I hope he doesn't cling on too long and damage his legacy.

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Post by Cyril on Mon 10 Dec 2018, 10:27 pm

Owens has been a great ref (perhaps not for a year or more) but if he’s too out of breath to even come up with a witty put-down his days are numbered. Time to quit and become an A Question of Sport captain?

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 6:23 pm

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/leicester-tigers-looking-bring-replacement-2321155

Looking to bring an injury replacement in for TV, who's out until February with a foot injury.

Matt Smith hyper-extended his elbow and dislocated his shoulder against Racing. Ouch, nothing more to say than hopefully he can play again after that.

Holmes has just started return to play protocols after his HIA against Racing.

Kitchener is fit for selection again.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 6:29 pm

Running pretty low on back cover. I'll be interested to see whether Geordie continues with the 6-2 bench split. Personally I like getting BOC, Thompson and Evans into the same 23.

1.Genge
2.TPN
3.Cole
4.Wells
5.Spencer
6.Fitzgerald
7.O'Connor
8.Kalamafoni

9.Youngs
10.Ford

11.May
12.Toomua
13.Manu
14.Thompstone
15.Worth

16.Kerr
17.Bateman/Feao/Gigena/Ma'afu (Don't know who's fit to be honest)
18.Cortes
19.Kitchener
20.Evans
21.Thompson
22.White
23.Hardwick

I expect we will see something like that. Everyone is desperate for a lift in spirits. A big home win would do that, however unlikely it may be against Racing.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 8:35 pm

The tactics worked well last weekend but that was indoor on a plastic pitch. I'm not sure we'll get away with going mobile as the game goes on because it's going to be cold and probably wet which isn't going to be conducive to running rugby. I was a big fan with that tactic though, a backrow of BOC, Evans and Thompson made life very difficult for Racing with their big forwards tiring.

Worth at 15 if he's recovered could be an asset. He looked strong and confident under the high ball Vs Sarries and he's got a big boot if the weather turns. Not afraid of putting his shoulder into a tackle either.

Personally I'd start White. He played well in Paris and Youngs didn't add much when he came on. If Ben wants that shirt then he should be made to show what he's got off the bench and force the youngster back to the bench.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 8:43 pm

If we had the heavier carriers to fire of the bench I'd agree but don't think we do. Given that I'd pick our best players and I think BOC, Evans and Thompson are amongst them.

I'd start White as well but I don't see Lenny sitting on the bench for a big home game with the panic alarms sounding.

I still think Worth lacks the pace to play 15, but he's a useful option there with so many injuries.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 9:04 pm

We don't really have the weight to go toe to toe from the start. I'd agree that they were among our best players and dependent on the ref then looking to frustrate Racing at the breakdown is definitely an option.

I don't think Worth is slow but he's certainly not got the fast feet to go weaving up the pitch like TV or Holmes. If he works on his positioning he can be a perfectly good AP option.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 12:26 pm

Leicester Tigers (v Racing 92, Welford Road, Sunday 1.00pm)

15 Jonah Holmes      

14 Adam Thompstone

13 Manu Tuilagi        

12 Matt Toomua        

11 Jonny May

10 George Ford (c)    

9 Ben White

1 Ellis Genge  

2 Tatafu Polota-Nau  

3 Dan Cole    

4 Will Spencer

5 Graham Kitchener

6 Mike Fitzgerald

7 Brendon O’Connor

8 Sione Kalamafoni  

Replacements

16 Jake Kerr

17 Facundo Gigena  

18 Gaston Cortes      

19 Harry Wells

20 Mike Williams

21 Guy Thompson

22 Ben Youngs          

23 Gareth Owen

Racing 92: 15 Simon Zebo, 14 Louis Dupichot, 13 Virimi Vakatawa, 12 Henry Chavancy (c), 11 Juan Imhoff, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Teddy Iribaren; 1 Guram Gogichashvili, 2 Ole Avei, 3 Ben Tameifuna, 4 Donnacha Ryan, 5 Leone Nakarawa, 6 Baptiste Chouzenoux, 7 Bernard Le Roux, 8 Antonie Claassen
Replacements: 16 Dimitri Szarzewski, 17 Vasil Kakovin, 18 Cedate Gomes Sa, 19 Boris Palu, 20 Fabien Sanconnie, 21 Maxime Machenaud, 22 Olivier Klemenczak, 23 Ben Volavola

Teams up.

Kitch straight back into start, Wells benched and Evans dropped. Owen replaces Smith on the bench. White retains the 9 jersey.

Machenaud back on the bench for Racing. Interesting that Avei is starting over Szarzewski. I hadn't realised that Donnacha Ryan had moved to Racing prior to seeing that team sheet!

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 1:25 pm

Gigena is not the loosehead I'd want on the bench for this one. Still very raw.

Good to see White keep his shirt he deserves it. Harsh call on Evans.

Could be a close game but I'm not sure we've got enough to win it poor conditions.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 9:36 pm

Evans has had his injury issues but when fit his time has often been defined by, 'Evans made a positive contribution in a poor performance, then get dropped'.

When fit he'd be my starting 7 and I rate BOC highly. I really hope he doesn't end up looking elsewhere for game time.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 15 Dec 2018, 1:33 pm

I'm a big Evans fan but he didn't look razor sharp off the bench last week. I would like to see him rotated back in to the team to give BOC a break next weekend. He's certainly the future in the openside shirt for me. Looks like he's filling out and he was always pound for pound pretty physical anyway.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 1:30 pm

Need to change things up before half time. Forwards are getting down over in the loose. Wells and Thompstone for Kitch and Fitz.

Toomua is supposed to be the defensive organiser but is not drifting and just blitzing out of the line ineffectively.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 1:39 pm

This is what annoys me about the high tackle rules. Zebo high tackle prevents a try (Ford went to the bin for the same Vs Ulster). It's also a forearm to the throat which we've seen cards for. TMO says "penalty at best"?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 2:11 pm

Since when are you allowed to push before the ball comes into the scrum? Racing have been pushed around all game so out an early shove on the ball never comes in and Tigers are pinged. Come on Clancy, you're only interested in Tigers tackling as well, so many Rcaing seat belt tackles. We need all the help we can get.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 2:20 pm

No yellow card for Nakawara retreating all of 3m from the quick tap? The quality of officiating has not been great over the two games.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 2:24 pm

Absolute farce the officiating in this game.

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Post by TJ on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 3:13 pm

Like Cole not getting red for a deliberate elbow to the throat?

Just to show its not all one way - I watched the game as a neutral and thought the officials good.  Nice to see scrums reffed properly

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Post by Welly on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 4:13 pm

TJ wrote:Like Cole not getting red for a deliberate elbow to the throat?

Just to show its not all one way - I watched the game as a neutral and thought the officials good.  Nice to see scrums reffed properly

Expect it wasn't deliberate.
Reckless maybe deliberate no.

That being said the reffing didn't cost us the game.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 16 Dec 2018, 7:55 pm

Welly wrote:
TJ wrote:Like Cole not getting red for a deliberate elbow to the throat?

Just to show its not all one way - I watched the game as a neutral and thought the officials good.  Nice to see scrums reffed properly

Expect it wasn't deliberate.
Reckless maybe deliberate no.

That being said the reffing didn't cost us the game.

No the first 25 minutes where we just didn't show up lost us the game. Can't be giving teams a three try head start. Hopefully we announce a new defence coach tomorrow.

Cole raising an arm and dropping his head into contact is nothing unusual and probably happened a dozen times during the game. The reason that Cole was pulled up was because Chavancy milked it and rolled around pointing at his throat but required no treatment and carried on perfectly fine. The TMO was pushing for red but seemed to see nothing wrong with a high tackle stopping a try being scored, foul play cynically stopping a certain try and no card, no penalty try even discussed? Maybe Thompstone should have rolled around holding his neck...

I thought the scrums were reduced to a lottery frankly. Clancy allowed early shoves then pinged them harshly. Tended to award a penalty to whichever team appealed to him first.

Still annoyed that Nakawara was allowed to not retreat from a quick tap and cynically kill the attack without even a penalty. Clancy was all of six foot away.

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Post by propdavid_london on Mon 17 Dec 2018, 1:06 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46592280
At their lowest ebb, apparently

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 17 Dec 2018, 2:10 pm

Lots of empty seats yesterday, and an atmosphere similar to a morgue.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 17 Dec 2018, 2:37 pm

I would normally enjoy watching the Tigers struggle, unfortunately I fear Bath are worse. What is going on with us both?
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Post by king_carlos on Mon 17 Dec 2018, 3:59 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Lots of empty seats yesterday, and an atmosphere similar to a morgue.

Empty seats may be the only thing with a chance of shifting Cohen at this point. Glynn is a final firewall he could remove but given he appointed GG it seems unlikely he will do so.

The number of fans turning on Smurf as opposed to the board is worrying though. Cohen has fired three coaches without seeig desired improvement on the pitch and each time he has hidden from it.

The bloke is made of teflon it seems.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 17 Dec 2018, 9:45 pm

Cohen has sourced too many financial backers from his pals in Jersey. He has his fingers in all the pies. There's no chance of getting him out. Ged Glynn has long been setup as his eventual successor. The only changes we'll see will be additional coaches.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 8:06 am

Tbh the way things are not progressing in Europe is probably a good thing for Tigers. Murphy is bemoaning the impact of injuries and the toll its taking on his squad already. Theres a case for them taking a leaf out of the Pro14 sides book and fielding second string sides for the remaining fixtures to give the seniors some breathing space.

Finishing high enough in the league to qualify for next years tournament has to be the main goal now. Or may be just winning one game would be a start!

The decline of Tigers hasnt happened overnight but theres no question that this is by far the worst season theyve had in Murphys time, I dont think anyone would dispute that. I do feel for him because hes a genuine club man but Murphy is out of his depth in the job which isnt helping the situation at all. I'm not advocating dumping him now, but they will want to recruit a senior figure with a proven track record to lead next season.
The timing of MOCs sacking is the underlying issue here, that and re-employing him in the first place. Poor decisions (and the continued politics) at the top have dropped Murphy in it, but the sides gone from bad to awful under him.

There was a fair bit of optimism at the start of the season seeing some real talent coming through the academy and some genuine quality in the first team. Thats well and truely gone now.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 8:40 am

The Gustard rumours refuse to die. Also seen some other suggestions/rumours:

Dave Ellis interviewed re the defence job
Stuart Lancaster being proposed as a DoR to Murphy's head coach - cannot see that happening as while the geography may fit, Bomber seems to enjoy wearing a tracksuit and coaching.
And one way out there suggestion that would be worth investigating - Alex Sanderson to be offered the top job and to also take control of defence. This would leave Murphy as the attack coach and Bobo as scrum coach (not sure what would happen to Bakewell in this scenario). Cannot see Sanderson leaving Sarries for us, but unless McCall is planning on stepping aside his path to the top job at Barnet is restricted.


Other than Ellis though all of those are next season appointments. We need to sort something out right now.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 9:32 am

Well Ugo Monye has waded in with the helpful suggestion of playing paintball or going to the pub.

The recruitment for next season wont be helped by the world cup and all the speculation around the England job, even Lancaster. Other positions (and experienced coaches) will become available after it too.

Gustard would be a good catch, but they would have to make a very hefty offer especially if Tigers miss out on the Champions Cup.

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Post by propdavid_london on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 12:47 pm

John Kingston is available....

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Post by carpet baboon on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 3:06 pm

Hey Jose mourinho is available.

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Post by propdavid_london on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 4:23 pm

Murphy been made permanent.

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Post by Brendan on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 4:53 pm

Next league games against Quinn's(h), Bath(a), Glaws(h), and Sarries(a) not the easiest of games

Then Worcester at home will be an easier game to get things going.

If they win there next two or three games though we would be talking about them being a playoff team. They need a defence coach if things are going to change

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 6:27 pm

We have already played Wuss at home, and lost.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 9:15 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
The decline of Tigers hasnt happened overnight but theres no question that this is by far the worst season theyve had in Murphys time, I dont think anyone would dispute that. I do feel for him because hes a genuine club man but Murphy is out of his depth in the job which isnt helping the situation at all.  I'm not advocating dumping him now, but they will want to recruit a senior figure with a proven track record to lead next season.
The timing of MOCs sacking is the underlying issue here, that and re-employing him in the first place. Poor decisions (and the continued politics) at the top have dropped Murphy in it, but  the sides gone from bad to awful under him.

I think the first game of the season was the most lacklustre Tigers team I've ever seen. In the scrum we gained parity but in everything else we were awful. Quite frankly the 40-6 loss flattered us. Murphy hasn't made us any worse but we are little better.

Agree completely on the rest of it. Sacking a coach one game into a season creates a thankless task for the man that follows him.

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Post by Brendan on Tue 18 Dec 2018, 9:58 pm

LondonTiger wrote:We have already played Wuss at home, and lost.

My bad, it is Wuss away.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 19 Dec 2018, 11:24 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
The decline of Tigers hasnt happened overnight but theres no question that this is by far the worst season theyve had in Murphys time, I dont think anyone would dispute that. I do feel for him because hes a genuine club man but Murphy is out of his depth in the job which isnt helping the situation at all.  I'm not advocating dumping him now, but they will want to recruit a senior figure with a proven track record to lead next season.
The timing of MOCs sacking is the underlying issue here, that and re-employing him in the first place. Poor decisions (and the continued politics) at the top have dropped Murphy in it, but  the sides gone from bad to awful under him.

I think the first game of the season was the most lacklustre Tigers team I've ever seen. In the scrum we gained parity but in everything else we were awful. Quite frankly the 40-6 loss flattered us. Murphy hasn't made us any worse but we are little better.

Agree completely on the rest of it. Sacking a coach one game into a season creates a thankless task for the man that follows him.


Even you as an ardent Murphy apologist must admit that getting the permanent job off the back off 8 straight losses is a bit "edgy". I dont have a big problem with Tigers losing the Racing games (although the margin and manner of the home fixture was worrying), and they put in one of their better performances of the season in the loss to Saracens but the season has come off the rails badly. the same problems again and again.

Regardless the onus is now on to find a really high quality experienced DOR and strengthen the specialists supporting Murphy. That wont happen till this season is over, and with the world cup theres a chance that many candidates will be hedging their bets or not available until well into the domestic season. That could be hugely problematic for Tigers when it comes to recruitment for next season.
Gustard is an option who they might be able to get for the summer, but his experience and success is as almost entirely as a coach not a DOR.


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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 19 Dec 2018, 11:41 am

Brad Davies is the new defence coach and there's an new attack coach coming from Ireland. Sources say.

I'm not a fan of giving Murphy the job full-time. It makes him responsible for the mess he's inherited. If he remained interim we could have demoted him at the end of the season without losing him should a better fit come available in the summer.

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