The Rugby Championship

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The Rugby Championship

Post by hugehandoff on Fri 17 Aug 2018, 9:37 am

First topic message reminder :

It starts again tomorrow. As ever the interest will wane quickly if the ABs resume their usual dismantling of all opposition. They look extremely strong with Retallick and Whitelock back in harness. Their strength in depth at 10 is frightening. The Aussies do have Pocock back, but hard to look beyond another comfortable AB win.

Argentina away in SA will be interesting I think. SA look like they are improving and Argentina play some good rugby - one to watch I think.

Hoping that somebody pushes the ABs and an Aussie win tomorrow would be the perfect tonic for the tournament, however unlikely that is.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Sat 08 Sep 2018, 12:17 pm

ebop wrote:Really liking how Argentina are playing. Ledesma has them playing an exiting brand. Some sublime tries against the ABs. Great attacking mindset and foot on the pedal for 80. Just need to sort their scrum out. Pool C at the RWC will be interesting and can see France or England getting bumped early.

Yes they were good in parts, the first try was hard case with Mo’unga getting turned inside out. Oz are struggling to score with a ton of possession last ten minutes, toomuas just kicked them ahead.

Argie vs Oz will be interesting if Argie can play the way they did tonight.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by ebop on Sat 08 Sep 2018, 12:49 pm

Yeah, Mo’unga got stood up by Moyana. Was just a great try to be fair. Thought Mo’unga did well overall, assured enough and seems to have the temperament for test level. He inspired confidence tonight that he can do the job. There was a lot more anxiety around DCs deputy and Cruden had some shockers early on in his ABs career. But hopefully it’ll shut up the people that were wanting Mo’unga to replace Beauden. Different level right now but Mo’unga can build and build and be next cab off the rank.
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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Brendan on Sat 08 Sep 2018, 1:24 pm

This whole disrespecting thing is a load of rubbish. If the ABs put out their B team and lost the opposition wouldn't care one bit.

If the opposition rest players against you look at yourself. If you can't beat a team that rest players why should you play their full team and get smashed.

After seeing what the Welsh and Scots did to Argentina should we be surprised the ABs want to rest players against them

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 09 Sep 2018, 9:16 am

Good game and impressive win for NZ. Really baffling how they managed to avoid a yellow card for repeated infringements but nothing new there as usual.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by alanmackie6 on Sun 09 Sep 2018, 4:04 pm

A very interesting weekends viewing Argentina look very good,the score did`nt reflect the
game a 10 point result would have been about right.The important thing about this year
is planning for the post RWC exedous.
The great 2003 side after winning then mass retirements and 8 years in the wilderness

Stuart Lancaster left a solid basis for EJ to build on.Hansen is doing just that buiding for
the future hopefully EJ is doing the same.
The other match could have gone either way if SA had taken kicks at goal they would
probably have won.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Sun 09 Sep 2018, 6:40 pm

Yes the bok long throw with seemingly no one knowing it was going there was surreal, gifted Toomua and Oz the win. Bizzarre way to win.

Argies backplay was stunning Sanchez scoring one, setting up Bofillo perfectly for another and making a stunning run to set up another that was clipped out by a never say die Perenara.

Frizzel was stunning, carried as a 6 should. Fringe players Savea, Goodhue, Leinert-Brown, DMac, the other Barrett all stepped up as required.

Milner skudder still looks too slow but coped well, Mo’unga needs time, his role much more difficult to thrive in at test level early. He’ll have learned a lot about being more consistent, making better decisions but iverall certainly has potential.

We lose Retallick and probably Laumape for the series, retallick will be fresh for the northern tour.

Oz could struggle with containing the argue backline next week while SA face a potential nightmare here in Wellington next weekend.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by alanmackie6 on Sun 09 Sep 2018, 9:34 pm

Whats the forecast for Wellington,ABs are great mudlarks,incidentally does any one know the fate of
the underer 20`s Nz Junior RWC winners hooker.At the time it wassaid he could walk into AB recokoning.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Mon 10 Sep 2018, 1:01 am

alanmackie6 wrote:Whats the forecast for Wellington,ABs are great mudlarks,incidentally does any one know the fate of
the underer 20`s Nz Junior  RWC winners hooker.At the time it wassaid he could walk into AB recokoning.

The last week bar yesterday was a cold southerly and rain. Fine next couple of days but theres a large low over the tasman and an anticyclone behind that pushing it over so its a matter of which is still there bu Saturday.

Did you catch Nico Jones captain St Peters to the firstxv national win weekend Alan? . Runs like his old man Michael, hopefully a star in the making.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 10 Sep 2018, 10:21 am

Taylorman wrote:Yes the bok long throw with seemingly no one knowing it was going there was surreal, gifted Toomua and Oz the win. Bizzarre way to win.

Argies backplay was stunning Sanchez scoring one, setting up Bofillo perfectly for another and making a stunning run to set up another that was clipped out by a never say die Perenara.

Frizzel was stunning, carried as a 6 should. Fringe players Savea, Goodhue, Leinert-Brown, DMac, the other Barrett all stepped up as required.

Milner skudder still looks too slow but coped well, Mo’unga needs time, his role much more difficult to thrive in at test level early. He’ll have learned a lot about being more consistent, making better decisions but iverall certainly has potential.

We lose Retallick and probably Laumape for the series, retallick will be fresh for the northern tour.

Oz could struggle with containing the argue backline next week while SA face a potential nightmare here in Wellington next weekend.

The Boks have built a habit of throwing games away with really sloppy play. The game v Wales in the summer springs to mind.

Frizzel was really good but I reckon teams would figure him out quickly enough. Mo'unga is a really good player but most 10s need time to get used to playing for any team. Apparently he has a habit of puking before big games.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Mon 10 Sep 2018, 10:43 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Yes the bok long throw with seemingly no one knowing it was going there was surreal, gifted Toomua and Oz the win. Bizzarre way to win.

Argies backplay was stunning Sanchez scoring one, setting up Bofillo perfectly for another and making a stunning run to set up another that was clipped out by a never say die Perenara.

Frizzel was stunning, carried as a 6 should. Fringe players Savea, Goodhue, Leinert-Brown, DMac, the other Barrett all stepped up as required.

Milner skudder still looks too slow but coped well, Mo’unga needs time, his role much more difficult to thrive in at test level early. He’ll have learned a lot about being more consistent, making better decisions but iverall certainly has potential.

We lose Retallick and probably Laumape for the series, retallick will be fresh for the northern tour.

Oz could struggle with containing the argue backline next week while SA face a potential nightmare here in Wellington next weekend.

The Boks have built a habit of throwing games away with really sloppy play. The game v Wales in the summer springs to mind.

Frizzel was really good but I reckon teams would figure him out quickly enough. Mo'unga is a really good player but most 10s need time to get used to playing for any team. Apparently he has a habit of puking before big games.

Yeah Frizzells new but couldnt have started better. He’ll need to go up against a variety of back rowers and will get ample opportunity next three months. Squire is the incumbant and may have more tricks but for sheer ball carrying Frizzell will put him under pressure. The other impressive one was A L- Brown who looks to be coming back to form of two years ago. Does a lot with little and makes things happen. Karl T was surprisingly mobile. Overall a lot to be positive about, depth being built as we speak.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 10 Sep 2018, 11:43 am

I reckon Mo'unga is a better back up option at 10 than McKenzie so wouldn't be surprised to see a bit more of him in this championship and November. Needs to get over his nerves a bit though but not unexpected to be nervous on your full test debut.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by aucklandlaurie on Mon 10 Sep 2018, 3:16 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:I reckon Mo'unga is a better back up option at 10 than McKenzie so wouldn't be surprised to see a bit more of him in this championship and November. Needs to get over his nerves a bit though but not unexpected to be nervous on your full test debut.

Interesting observation here Collapse.

its only about 3/4 years ago when Carter and Cruden were the first two preferences at 10, and Barrett was the super sub that came onto the field at the 60th minute, its the same format just the names are different.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Mon 10 Sep 2018, 5:25 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:I reckon Mo'unga is a better back up option at 10 than McKenzie so wouldn't be surprised to see a bit more of him in this championship and November. Needs to get over his nerves a bit though but not unexpected to be nervous on your full test debut.

Interesting observation here Collapse.

its only about  3/4 years ago when Carter and Cruden were the first two preferences at 10, and Barrett was the super sub that came onto the field at the 60th minute, its the same format just the names are different.
DMac offers much more off the bench with 30 minutes to go as he makes more things happen with scant ball. For me Mo’unga needs to push his case for starting 10 or will not play. Its clear Hansen prefers the high risk high gains approach in a 10. Mo’unga has time but I dont see himfiguring significantly in next years world cup, yet anyway. If he can bring his best Crusaders form to test rugby, and he was far off that inthe weekend, he hasa shot, but bottom line is no one can do what barrett can do. And at sub DMac is the only player we have that can up the ante when Barrett goes off.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by alanmackie6 on Mon 10 Sep 2018, 10:32 pm

Another legends family member has emerged Will Tremain grand son of the legendary Kelvin,Mounga
had a solid game Crudon did`nt shine before at one point being co nsidered world number one.
Incidentally Walter Littles sun is a chip of the old mans block.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 12:16 am

alanmackie6 wrote:Another legends family member has emerged Will Tremain grand son of the legendary Kelvin,Mounga
had a solid game Crudon did`nt shine before at one point being co nsidered world number one.
Incidentally Walter Littles sun is a chip of the old mans block.

Yes good to see the prodigy of our era with sons in their late teens twenties coming through. Havent see Littles son yet, who's he with?

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by alanmackie6 on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 1:13 am

Michael Little Blues ,North Harbour Mitre 10 sides then Sun Wolves Super side ,represented Fiji
at under 20s level.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 1:37 pm

Looking forward to the November internationals a lot. NZ play Japan, England, Ireland and then Italy.

I think while England are having a dreadful year they will still be a good challenge for NZ at home. Then the following weekend they play Ireland.

Tough enough fixtures which I reckon NZ will really use to lay down a marker of where they are at. Will be quite interesting to see if NZ select the same side back to back against England and Ireland.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 7:23 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Looking forward to the November internationals a lot. NZ play Japan, England, Ireland and then Italy.

I think while England are having a dreadful year they will still be a good challenge for NZ at home. Then the following weekend they play Ireland.

Tough enough fixtures which I reckon NZ will really use to lay down a marker of where they are at. Will be quite interesting to see if NZ select the same side back to back against England and Ireland.

I think theyll do exactly what they need to set them up for the World cup. I doubt theyll play their best lineups vs England and Ireland because theyre consecutive but given the remaining sides are easier managed they wont bd far off. Having Italy between Ireland andvEngland would have made for better full side tests where Hansen could have gone light on Italy. I think he’ll still trial some positions vs ireland and england but remain with the core side. Squire and Frizzell at 6 for instance. Cane Barrett and Whitelock at lock. Crotty and laumape at 12. Think hed be tempted to try Mo’unga in one as well, depending on his progress in the RC. Mo’ungas taken a bit of flak for his uneven performance and Hansen would typically get him out assp to allow him to get a good game inder his belt.


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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 1:12 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Looking forward to the November internationals a lot. NZ play Japan, England, Ireland and then Italy.

From an All Blacks perspective, it's actually a run of five Tests on consecutive weekends. They play Australia in Yokohama a week before taking on Japan in Tokyo, and then head north for England, Ireland and Italy.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 10:52 am

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Looking forward to the November internationals a lot. NZ play Japan, England, Ireland and then Italy.

I think while England are having a dreadful year they will still be a good challenge for NZ at home. Then the following weekend they play Ireland.

Tough enough fixtures which I reckon NZ will really use to lay down a marker of where they are at. Will be quite interesting to see if NZ select the same side back to back against England and Ireland.

I think theyll do exactly what they need to set them up for the World cup. I doubt theyll play their best lineups vs England and Ireland because theyre consecutive but given the remaining sides are easier managed they wont bd far off. Having Italy between Ireland andvEngland would have made for better full side tests where Hansen could have gone light on Italy. I think he’ll still trial some positions vs ireland and england but remain with the core side. Squire and Frizzell at 6 for instance. Cane Barrett and Whitelock at lock. Crotty and laumape at 12. Think hed be tempted to try Mo’unga in one as well, depending on his progress in the RC. Mo’ungas taken a bit of flak for his uneven performance and Hansen would typically get him out assp to allow him to get a good game inder his belt.


Its been a while as far as I can tell that NZ haven't put their strongest available side out v Ireland. I'd be surprised if they made changes to key players or anyone really outside of the back 3 possibly.

Shannon Frizell is a great name. Named after an Irish river and an Austrian kiddy fiddler. What a mix. Seems appropriate that he was so strong and elusive last Saturday but I cant help feeling its only a matter of time that the gets found out a bit.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 11:24 am

Anyway, looking forward to the ABs v SA game on Saturday. I hope Hansen and Erasmus agree a safe word before kick off because I cant see anything other than a serious spanking for the Boks.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 9:28 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Looking forward to the November internationals a lot. NZ play Japan, England, Ireland and then Italy.

I think while England are having a dreadful year they will still be a good challenge for NZ at home. Then the following weekend they play Ireland.

Tough enough fixtures which I reckon NZ will really use to lay down a marker of where they are at. Will be quite interesting to see if NZ select the same side back to back against England and Ireland.

I think theyll do exactly what they need to set them up for the World cup. I doubt theyll play their best lineups vs England and Ireland because theyre consecutive but given the remaining sides are easier managed they wont bd far off. Having Italy between Ireland andvEngland would have made for better full side tests where Hansen could have gone light on Italy. I think he’ll still trial some positions vs ireland and england but remain with the core side. Squire and Frizzell at 6 for instance. Cane Barrett and Whitelock at lock. Crotty and laumape at 12. Think hed be tempted to try Mo’unga in one as well, depending on his progress in the RC. Mo’ungas taken a bit of flak for his uneven performance and Hansen would typically get him out assp to allow him to get a good game inder his belt.


Its been a while as far as I can tell that NZ haven't put their strongest available side out v Ireland. I'd be surprised if they made changes to key players or anyone really outside of the back 3 possibly.

Shannon Frizell is a great name. Named after an Irish river and an Austrian kiddy fiddler. What a mix. Seems appropriate that he was so strong and elusive last Saturday but I cant help feeling its only a matter of time that the gets found out a bit.

Yeah its not so much best vs next as several positions are up for grabs. 6 is one and depending on how Frizzel goes who knows who the stronger player is between he and Squire.

Mo’unga may get stronger in the RC and Hansen may want to get an idea of how a more standard 10 goes against a heavily structured Ireland or England.

Centres are a toss up as well with Anton LB showing form of two seasons ago. Most other sides usually have a clear cut best xv. ABs dont. They have options. Perenara is clearly of international standard. One things for sure is he wont play exactly the same side vs Ireland and England. Personally I think England at home are the bigger threat. Simply because weve lost there before.

We havent got fully used to the fact that Ireland are in that top bracket. This is a chance for them to prove it.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by alanmackie6 on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 9:35 pm

Nz have named just about the strongest side available given injuries v SA,the end of year tour
hopefully Retalick will be available maybe Coles too.
AI`s A side v Aus,stiffs v Japan,Strongest possible v England,strongest available v Ireland,then
last man standing v Italy.
IF they go unbeaten in RC ,then several losses in last 5 matches with travel and attrition looks very
real.
Come RWC ALL the usual suspects will be firing Argentina made SF stage in last 2 and will very
likely be there too.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 10:44 am

Taylorman wrote:
Yeah its not so much best vs next as several positions are up for grabs. 6 is one and depending on how Frizzel goes who knows who the stronger player is between he and Squire.

Mo’unga may get stronger in the RC and Hansen may want to get an idea of how a more standard 10 goes against a heavily structured Ireland or England.

Centres are a toss up as well with Anton LB showing form of two seasons ago. Most other sides usually have a clear cut best xv. ABs dont. They have options. Perenara is clearly of international standard. One things for sure is he wont play exactly the same side vs Ireland and England. Personally I think England at home are the bigger threat. Simply because weve lost there before.

We havent got fully used to the fact that Ireland are in that top bracket. This is a chance for them to prove it.

I think England despite finishing 5th in the six nations are still a threat at home alright however, Ireland are undoubtedly the better side at the moment. I think England do suffer from their players getting flogged to death in their domestic league and this years 6 nations reflected that. England literally never win the 6 nations after a Lions tour, very rarely anyway so 5th may have been a touch unrepresentative of their strength and I expect them to be better in November.

Whereas NZ have incredible depth in their backs I think Ireland have serious depth in the forwards. Ireland can pick two packs with international experience without a loss of much quality.

Front row: Healy, Best, Furlong or McGrath, Cronin, Porter.
Second row: Toner and Ryan or Henderson and Beirne/Roux
Back row: POM, Stander and SOB or VdF/Ruddock/Murphy, Leavy and Conan




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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 3:50 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Yeah its not so much best vs next as several positions are up for grabs. 6 is one and depending on how Frizzel goes who knows who the stronger player is between he and Squire.

Mo’unga may get stronger in the RC and Hansen may want to get an idea of how a more standard 10 goes against a heavily structured Ireland or England.

Centres are a toss up as well with Anton LB showing form of two seasons ago. Most other sides usually have a clear cut best xv. ABs dont. They have options. Perenara is clearly of international standard. One things for sure is he wont play exactly the same side vs Ireland and England. Personally I think England at home are the bigger threat. Simply because weve lost there before.

We havent got fully used to the fact that Ireland are in that top bracket. This is a chance for them to prove it.

I think England despite finishing 5th in the six nations are still a threat at home alright however, Ireland are undoubtedly the better side at the moment. I think England do suffer from their players getting flogged to death in their domestic league and this years 6 nations reflected that. England literally never win the 6 nations after a Lions tour, very rarely anyway so 5th may have been a touch unrepresentative of their strength and I expect them to be better in November.

Whereas NZ have incredible depth in their backs I think Ireland have serious depth in the forwards. Ireland can pick two packs with international experience without a loss of much quality.

Front row: Healy, Best, Furlong or McGrath, Cronin, Porter.
Second row: Toner and Ryan or Henderson and Beirne/Roux
Back row: POM, Stander and SOB or VdF/Ruddock/Murphy, Leavy and Conan




Yep gotta agree with that. The two middle tests kind of standand out with japan and Italy either side. Wed have to include the third oz bled cup in tokyo before that as a potential banana skin match. We dont go well in those and lost that match last year.

Looks like Hansens named a strong side vs SA here in Wellington so hopefully we get a good match. The bok defence out wide really is terrible.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 4:03 pm

I predict a 30 plus win for NZ especially at home. SA just aren't very good at the moment. Sorry but its true.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by alanmackie6 on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 7:01 pm

The All Blacks have depth forwards and behind and could probably field 3 teams of roughly
equal strength.True Whitelock/Retalick cannot be exactly replaced but the next tier are solid
enough.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 9:06 pm

Retallick out really hurts us. Was missed in the third bc loss, the northern tour and even at chicago. Hes a one man wrecking ball, so much presence.

Hansens need to start all three barretts at wellington ‘for mummy’ looks a bit weird, Jordie not really deserved of best team status. Back three should on form be Reiko, Smith and Naholo.

Beaudy gets to square off against pollard again who made a fool of him in 14 when cruden missed the plane from a party.

Based on last weeks matches it should be an easy win and last year SA lost this 57-0.

30s about right, could even be more. It will definitely be more if jordie clicks, cos the others will anyway. Crotty and ALB gives us our most intelligent centre pairing, though across the backline its quite small until you get to Jordie and reiko.

So obviously speed is the name of the game for this one. Fast ball, and lots of it.

SAs chances lie with what Rassie can come up with to, as he says, save his job. His forwards need to be soecial this week because his outside backs leak tries and will e tormented, big time.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 9:22 am

Have to agree on Jordie Barrett. Hasn't lived up to the hype yet.

Who are new Zealand's 3rd and 4th choice hookers?

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by ebop on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 9:43 am

Jordie Barrett is 21 with 6 test caps and is just learning. There is no hype around Jordie but he has potential. His preferred position is in the centres and not at FB. He’s a big guy and can be destructive and could be one for the future.

AB hookers are Coles, Taylor, Harris and Coltman. Harris and Coltman are average. Aumua was someone in the wings after a devastating U20 championship and season for Wellington but got injured and had a few issues with fitness.

Who are the 3rd and 4th choice Irish first fives and halfbacks? Actually who are the 2nd choices?
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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 11:56 am

ebop wrote:Jordie Barrett is 21 with 6 test caps and is just learning. There is no hype around Jordie but he has potential. His preferred position is in the centres and not at FB. He’s a big guy and can be destructive and could be one for the future.

AB hookers are Coles, Taylor, Harris and Coltman. Harris and Coltman are average. Aumua was someone in the wings after a devastating U20 championship and season for Wellington but got injured and had a few issues with fitness.

Who are the 3rd and 4th choice Irish first fives and halfbacks? Actually who are the 2nd choices?

I accept that he is very young and that's a fair point. However, there is plenty of hype around him.

Not sure what first 5s are, centre?   Half backs are scrum halves and outhalves?

Out Halves in order: Sexton, Carbery, Byrne, Keatley, Hanrahan and overseas Jackson and Madigan. Lots of international experience there. There is a big drop from Sexton down but likewise there is a big drop from Barrett down.

Scrum Halves: Murray, Marmion, McGrath - probably our weakest position but Marmion and McGrath have started in big wins. Marmion against England and McGrath I think started or features in a win v Australia in November.

Centres we have good depth: Starting: Henshaw and Ringrose. Chris Farrell and Aki backup. Very solid depth there. Not much issue interchanging all of them.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 12:22 pm

If youre counting overseas its not that big a drop to dmac, carter, cruden, sapoaga, mo’unga and nick evans but lets assume most of them arent counted for whatever reason.

Hioker coles is back soon, taylor, coltman and a couple of others. We’re ok there. Weve got laulua to come back at tighthead, a better scrummager than franks. Locks will be interesting with Tuipulotu in this week, scored 3 tries last weekend, not common for a lock.

ebops right, jordies learning, hype or no hype, though i havent seen much of that. Hes done a lot for a twenty year old. Times on his side. Gets another chance this weekend.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 1:11 pm

Taylorman wrote:If youre counting overseas its not that big a drop to dmac, carter, cruden, sapoaga, mo’unga and nick evans but lets assume most of them arent counted for whatever reason.

Hioker coles is back soon, taylor, coltman and a couple of others. We’re ok there. Weve got laulua to come back at tighthead, a better scrummager than franks. Locks will be interesting with Tuipulotu in this week, scored 3 tries last weekend, not common for a lock.

ebops right, jordies learning, hype or no hype, though i havent seen much of that. Hes done a lot for a twenty year old. Times on his side. Gets another chance this weekend.

Come on Taylorman, there is a big difference in Irish overseas players and Kiwi ones. Its a 50 minute flight for Ian Madigan to fly home in a twin propeller plane from Bristol. An hour and a half for Jackson max. Ireland is very close to England and France. NZ is not. As such it is much more manageable to bring Irish players back to an Ireland squad if it was absolutely necessary. An Irish man playing in the UK or France is the Kiwi equivalent of a kiwi playing on the south island flying to Auckland for an NZ game.

I include Madigan and Jackson as they have a lot of international experience and are still in their 20s. Jackson has steered Ireland to wins v SA in SA and some other big wins, likewise Madigan but because they are abroad there are well down the pecking order. It is much less realistic for NZ to pick guys like Cruden and Carter.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 1:49 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:If youre counting overseas its not that big a drop to dmac, carter, cruden, sapoaga, mo’unga and nick evans but lets assume most of them arent counted for whatever reason.

Hioker coles is back soon, taylor, coltman and a couple of others. We’re ok there. Weve got laulua to come back at tighthead, a better scrummager than franks. Locks will be interesting with Tuipulotu in this week, scored 3 tries last weekend, not common for a lock.

ebops right, jordies learning, hype or no hype, though i havent seen much of that. Hes done a lot for a twenty year old. Times on his side. Gets another chance this weekend.

Come on Taylorman, there is a big difference in Irish overseas players and Kiwi ones. Its a 50 minute flight for Ian Madigan to fly home in a twin propeller plane from Bristol. An hour and a half for Jackson max. Ireland is very close to England and France. NZ is not. As such it is much more manageable to bring Irish players back to an Ireland squad if it was absolutely necessary. An Irish man playing in the UK or France is the Kiwi equivalent of a kiwi playing on the south island flying to Auckland for an NZ game.

I include Madigan and Jackson as they have a lot of international experience and are still in their 20s. Jackson has steered Ireland to wins v SA in SA and some other big wins, likewise Madigan but because they are abroad there are well down the pecking order. It is much less realistic for NZ to pick guys like Cruden and Carter.

I was talking about player depth. You dont have it over us from a player quality perspective yet you say it like you do. We have issues you dont. Our players are bought up in a way that it makes it impractical to select them. And i alluded to that. Im just not going to get into a comparison about depth and leave players out.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 2:07 pm

Yes in terms of depth its more plausible to include Irish overseas than NZ players albeit the Irish overseas players are really only called on in exceptional circumstances.

I never claimed that Ireland has more depth than NZ I really only said that the majority of our depth is in the forwards and responded to a specific question around the depth of the Irish 9-13 positions (excluding 11). As such the depth isn't as much an issue than may be alluded to. Ireland's depth is pretty good right now which probably explains in part how consistent they have been as a team lately and their 2nd in the world ranking.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 9:04 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Yes in terms of depth its more plausible to include Irish overseas than NZ players albeit the Irish overseas players are really only called on in exceptional circumstances.

I never claimed that Ireland has more depth than NZ I really only said that the majority of our depth is in the forwards and responded to a specific question around the depth of the Irish 9-13 positions (excluding 11). As such the depth isn't as much an issue than may be alluded to. Ireland's depth is pretty good right now which probably explains in part how consistent they have been as a team lately and their 2nd in the world ranking.

Yes it is. What will be interesting is how the two styles sort eachother out over the next few meetings. Weve met sides with forward heavy components as a matter of course. England South Africa especially over the years try to break us down that way but its not really worked. Truth is you have to have balance through the side. Our pack will match anyones without needing to doninate anyone. Key for us is mobility and skills across the tight five. Its what those five do outside their set piece duties that is the main secret to AB success. I doubt youll find a test where the combined meters, number of carries, tackles, turnovers across the tight five is higher than the ABs, including Ireland. When all fifteen players are mobile, carrying, tackling, passing the team fills the spaces more so in that way its rare the ABs are beaten in the forwards.

Take Retallick and Coles, theres no more present lock around the field and no hooker that carries as well as Coles. He outpaced Adam Ashley Cooper to one of his tries. Rare to see a hooker burn a centre/ winger off.

I dont think Irelands tight five have the same skilset and pace which is why forward strength is a relative term.

If the ABs arr allowed to open tge game up, Ireland wont stay with them because the backs are simply way suoerior as ball carriers, and sniffing out tries. For me Ireland now are no better than many second ranked sides theyve gone up against in the past. And the crop theyre heading at the moment arent playing great rugby, oz and SA have never been so bad at the same time.

Anyway, it is what it is, its Irelands turn to have a run at the no.1 soot, the World rugby cup etc, all in the next 12 months.

That will be interesting.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by alanmackie6 on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 9:47 pm

Because of the way theIRB ratings work Ireland are currently number2,they are there because they
have beaten higher rated sides.They may well be the best Ireland team ever have great depth etc.
But there recent record is hardly awe inspiring 6 Ns titles usually go`s down to home draws match
NZ up front.
Maybe none have done it recently given parity Nz will win in 3 out of 4 cases,the current side 9 out of 10.
Bring it on Ireland will never have a better time to get another win than the AI`s

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 9:53 pm

So anyone care to go the scores tonight?

Ill back Argie to tip Aus over for the first time in oz.

28-23

NZ vs SA...hmmm... 46-15


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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by yappysnap on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 6:03 am

NZ v SA I'll go 52 - 24

Oz v Arg should be a home win 32 - 22

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Taylorman on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 7:57 am

yappysnap wrote:NZ v SA I'll go 52 - 24

Oz v Arg should be a home win 32 - 22

must admit that feels more like it Very Happy

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 9:15 am

SA much better than normal today. Putting plenty of pressure on NZ. Barrett having a tough day so far.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 10:12 am

Owens pretty determined to get NZ back in this game

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 10:16 am

What a choke from Barrett. 2 kicks from 6. Pathetic.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Maine man on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 10:26 am

Why oh why didn't the all blacks go for a drop? Poor leadership

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 10:27 am

Maine man wrote:Why oh why didn't the all blacks go for a drop?

Because Barretts kicking was woeful today.

I thought Nigel Owens was just as bad today. Very one sided referring.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by ebop on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 10:28 am

Well done SA, great game from them. Barrett’s kicking was pathetic and he’s gonna kop it. Farkin hopeless.
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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 10:28 am

Looks like NZ missed Retallick a lot. Depth?

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Duty281 on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 10:32 am

Wow, South Africa's best performance in a long time. Good enough to beat a disjointed All Blacks side. Sad to say it, but Barrett's kicking cost his team the game.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 10:33 am

Deserved win for SA, showing NZ are more than beatable without Retallick. Makes England's series loss not look as bad now.

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Re: The Rugby Championship

Post by ebop on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 10:36 am

Retallick is a special player but no. The ABs don’t rely on a single player and nor do most teams. Jordie may see his stock fall after that horrible execution of a risky play. The ABs only woke up when the ‘depth’ came on. When our bench came on the game was all ABs but SA held on and deservedly so.


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