England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

Off goes Rahul...at least he doesn't waste a review ! That was stone dead.
Jimmy on course for ten ?

Rahane in next as Kohli was off the field too long...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:11 am

Further to the question of relative batting abilities .

It is true Stokes recent Test batting figures are poor. But we are talking about just four non-consecutive Tests since his Ashes "ban". Too early to get worried ?
If indeed it is felt , say , Buttler is a better bat than Stokes (question : talking red ball , do we think he is ?) then should not the batting order reflect that ? I for one would not be unhappy to see that trialled at Trent Bridge as much for future planning as easing Stokes back in. Guess the left hand/right hand issue comes into it too...

Hmm. Cook Jennings Root Pope Bairstow Buttler Stokes Woakes Rashid Broad Anderson....in truth you could shuffle 5-8 about however you fancy. That's without bringing Moeen back into the mix...

We are still left with the one big problem , I think. Might not matter in this (home) series but will eventually : starting the "all rounders" at five instead of six is a huge risk against top quality opponents. Sooner or later , the top five has to be made fit for purpose - which I admit is easier said than done.
In the meantime , shuffling the all rounders match by match is probably as good a means of winning Tests as any. Might be a bit more complicated on tour in Sri Lanka though...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:46 am

It is tough on Sam Curran given his displays in the series so far with the bat and ball. You just hope this isn't going to knock his confidence in anyway but don't think it will. Still he has shown enough to have sealed a spot on the upcoming winter tours and could be an answer to Stuart Broad once he retires.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:33 am

England win the toss and elect to bowl. Stokes in for Curran. India make three changes with Bumrah and Dharwan coming in as well as Pant as wicketkeeper.


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:39 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:England win the toss and elect to bat. Stokes in for Curran. India make three changes with Bumrah and Dharwan coming in as well as Pant as wicketkeeper.

England are to bowl , no ?

India team looks better ; although Dhawan for Vijay looks like shifting deck chairs...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by LivinginItaly on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:40 am

Tough on Curran, but the correct choice from a purely cricketing point of view. Stokes is a batting all rounder, whereas at the present moment both Curran and Woakes are bowling all rounders. Therefore the best combination is Stokes + one of Woakes or Curran. Woakes at the moment offers more than Curran.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:43 am

alfie wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:England win the toss and elect to bat. Stokes in for Curran. India make three changes with Bumrah and Dharwan coming in as well as Pant as wicketkeeper.

England are to bowl , no ?

India team looks better ; although Dhawan for Vijay looks like shifting deck chairs...

Of course alfie. I got caught up in listening to Kohli after the toss saying he'd have elected to bat had he won the toss so he was happy with the outcome. Onus on England then to make early inroads.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:55 am

England's aim will be to bowl India out for no more than 200. India will be in a strong position if they can post a score of 350+.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:48 pm

India having the best of it so far. Ball moving off seam but not many actually threatening.
Stokes bowling a right load of rubbish...why on earth is he on ahead of Woakes ?

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:58 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:England's aim will be to bowl India out for no more than 200. India will be in a strong position if they can post a score of 350+.

Not a lot of detail in that road map , Craig Smile

Lot depends on conditions , of course. But if this pitch takes spin later then England would want to be well ahead on first innings because Rashid v Ashwin is just not an even contest. And we all know how wobbly the England batting can be when put under pressure.

I'll be surprised if India fold up cheaply today ; but although these two have got a good start they will still need a few other players to step up if they're to get 350. As usual , a lot will be down to Kohli.

Right now , Kohli will be feeling pretty happy at being sent in.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:13 pm

Maybe Stokes is trying too hard to get back into it...so far his bowling will have India delighted Sam Curran has been left out.

Too early to say Root should have listened to guildford and the dinosaurs and batted first ? Smile

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Duty281 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:15 pm

Seemed a strange decision to insert India on a good pitch in reasonably pleasant weather conditions.

Stokes has bowled some dross. Looks like this test will be Rashid's first true examination since his recall.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:24 pm

Duty281 wrote:Seemed a strange decision to insert India on a good pitch in reasonably pleasant weather conditions.

Stokes has bowled some dross. Looks like this test will be Rashid's first true examination since his recall.

Guess the weather looked fir for bowling ...and I suspect recent success against the Indian top order had England assuming they just had to turn up to get wickets...

Aha..Woakes does the trick. Nice bowling...This time Buttler holds on at the first opportunity Smile

Handy opening stand of 60. But Dhawan will have wanted to make more of that start...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:37 pm

Woakes bowling England back into it...

Once again I marvel at the selfishness of some batsmen...Rahul squandering one of India's precious reviews on a pointless referral of a clear lbw. How "out" do you need it to be ?

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:04 pm

India go into lunch on 82 for 3 with Woakes bagging all three wickets. England edge that session with that late wicket.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:25 pm

That Pujara suicide on the stroke of lunch makes it England's session.

Woakes had a good morning !

Kohli/Rahane after lunch likely to be key to the day - which can still go either way.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Gooseberry on Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:20 pm

Bit surprised to see England bowl too. Its a different scenario to the previous test, not much rain and the forecast has the same grey cloud for pretty much the whole match.

I guess it says everything about how much they trust their pack of bowlers to keep the momentum and pressure on India ...versus how much they trust their top 7 to do the same.

Stikes bowling first change too speaks volumes about how the leadership want to treat him.

Woakes record in home tests is getting ridoculous, but still not what England woildve hoped for.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:38 pm

Steady from India since lunch...keeping the runs coming and not looking too bothered.
Stokes continues to be the most expensive of the bowlers : he has made a couple jump at the batsman but really hasn't been near his best today. Week off doesn't seem to have done him much good Smile

Impressed with Woakes today. I know , home conditions , etc etc ...but this sort of form suggests he may yet become the New Anderson .

Need a wicket soon , I think...Rashid hasn't started well...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Duty281 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:45 pm

India hauling themselves back into the series.

Every batsman has made a start, but no one has kicked on - can one/both of Kohli and Rahane do so?

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by wisden on Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:50 pm

Rashid getting bit of tap, pitch starting to flatten out

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:17 pm

Hmm. Sending India in looking like a poor choice as this partnership develops. Admittedly the rest of the batting is not as strong as it might be ; but at the moment you'd fancy India to get a pretty decent first innings score.
I was a little uneasy about this game beforehand - fearing England might be a touch over-confident. If India post 350 plus I'll be a lot more so as I don't really trust that batting lineup.

Good fifty for Kohli clap Not betting against a hundred. He looks like he's settling in for the day...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Duty281 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:26 pm

400 would probably be match-winning.

Kohli and Rahane look completely settled, as do the conditions. They've milked the county spinner, and even Woakes is now struggling to generate life in the wicket.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:34 pm

In truth it appears the pitch - after that opening session - is so placid that the likeliest result is probably a draw...but England these days aren't very good at batting out such matches .
So 400 here very likely could be a stepping stone to bringing this series back to 2-1

Way to go yet : we will see what happens when a wicket falls...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:43 pm

Emphatically India's session that one . Solid partnership from their two best batsmen clap

England looking at a tough final session...unless they can hit back with a few wickets later they are going to be playing catch-up from here on...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:44 pm

Dream session for India that has seen them take control of the test. Great partnership between Kohli and Rahane of 100+. I don't feel the toss decision was anything majorly wrong but would say England's team selection is being shown up as wrong. They could have done with Sam Curran and Ben Stokes has been poor as has Rashid. Curran could/should have played for either of them in my opinion. India go into tea on 189 for 3 and in control.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Gooseberry on Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:34 pm

Increasingly looking like a poor decision from England.
In general the more aggresive risl tsking approach under Bayliss has been positive in at least making England more watchable ...but whereas its worked wonders for them in limited overs its not really paying off consistently in tests.
Bowling first is rarely a good idea.

India are in a very strong position now. Englands fragile batting wont fancy Ashwin on day 5.

Life in the series yet..maybe there was a quiet word from the ecb ticket office.

The only downer for India is that once again its all about Kholi....they still could do with others sticking their hands up in more than support

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Duty281 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:45 pm

Not for the first time, Root and England look utterly clueless when the conditions aren't suiting them.

Rahane and Kohli applying themselves well, though. Punishing the bad ball and rotating the strike commendably.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Duty281 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:53 pm

A catch! A wicket! A sharp catch!

Didn't see it coming.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:41 pm

India's day they close with over 300 runs on the board with six wickets down. England have resuscitated their hopes a bit with three wickets late in the day. India though will feel very much on top.

Tomorrow England's batting line-up will have to respond to keep themselves competitive.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by msp83 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:49 pm

So, a decent day of cricket for India. The conditions eased out from the extremes of the last game, and for once, the Indian batting showed some application and spine. Virat Kohli was yet again at the forefront, but he'll be mightily annoyed he didn't stay through the day. Cheteshwar Pujara, and even Rahane to an extend also gave away their wickets, else India would have been in a dominant position. Hardik Pandya, who in my view has unfairly been targeted a bit, again showed he's willing to try and apply himself, but doesn't quite have the technique to do that well enough for long enough yet. Had he managed to evade that last ball of the dy, would have been India's day.
Now also I would say it is an even day as India was put into bat. 307 is not a a bad total at stumps, hope Ashwin, Pant and the bowlers somehow drag it to 350 tomorrow.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by msp83 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:55 pm

Woakes was the standout bowler for England. Ben Stokes was clearly not at his best, but his importance was demonstrated when he was called upon to deliver that short ball spell, the enforcer role... Rahane and Kohli handled it well though, but that doesn't take away from the diversity that Stokes adds to the England atack. Stuart Broad apart, none of Anderson, Woakes or Curran are suited to the role, and Broad we know is a much better bowler pitching it up, and the enforcer role often ended up messing his rhythm. The ball wasn't swinging much even for Anderson, expecting Curran would have run through the Indian lineup is a bit too much.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by msp83 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:02 pm

On to the Indian selections. Pant for Karthik was obvious, and unlike type, Kohli did the right thing there.
Murali Vijay getting dropped is not entirely unjustifiable, and Dhawan looked decent while he lasted, there was a greater sense of permanence and when he got out, it wasn't an eventuality waiting to happen. I would not have made the call though I have been worried about Vijay a bit, but the move kind of worked for Virat.
As for Bumrah, I am beginning to think that if he's match fit, it perhaps won't be a bad call considering the pitch. On this track where you need a lot more discipline as a quick bowler, Umesh and his pace may not be the best option. Bumrah is quite nippy himself and seems far more disciplined. Everything depends though on how match ready he is. But not an unreasonable call from Virat.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by KP_fan on Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:29 pm

It was already a refreshing sign to not see 15-3 withing the first hour and the day score cross 300 with a few wickets still in hand Very Happy

--Eng got fooled into putting India in...they probably ordered a green pitch, got one, with some cloud cover.....but pitches are like marriages, you don't know what will turn out until you get into it.
I have seen sides make such mistakes specially if the got what they custom ordered.

I think pitch has seam movement......BUT it's not spitting cobras like the T2 pitch was and to a little lesser extent T1 pitch too
you have to bend your back a bit....dig it in to get the ball to climb and do something off the seam too

And English seamers were just putting it there .....atleast at the start....and hoping that pitch would do all work and Indians would rollver

--Indians on their part batted with much more resolve and intent.....EVERYONE got a start but sad that 5 got out without converting.....and Kohli / Rahane without getting a BIG hundred
But the glass half full....they atleats have 300 on board thumbsup

--I could see Rahane getting on top of bounce cover the movement and hit on the rise through off...and when Indian batsmen start doing so.....you know they are getting in form....Kohli was already doing this in T1.....and Rahul is looking about to be getting there
Pujara is still battling it out.....and Dhawan...just chancing his way
my concern is Pandya.....he palys out a lot of balls, gets a start in EVERY inning and yet not gone beyond 32 always edging it to the cordon....he's gotta work the ball more and play more strokes....and get about 15 runs more for the balls he plays...

Pant has looked busy and scored......until he nicks it and the nick is caught...he will score runs and with Ashwin still there.....350 is par from here

--Eng has "the optimal" bowling combination as I would like to see it....BUT I hope they have not left out winning talisman Curran Smile

Rashid does well for 5th bowler....get a wicket or two in every inning and although not a great spinner...safely eng's best best as I always thought.

I would put the game 60-40 India's way if they get 350....as Eng would have to bat last.....India has hit the deck bowlers....pitch will be up and down by D4....and Bumrah on such pitches is like a spinner / cutter bowling at 85-93mph......likely to produce some unplayable deliveries....if he is in rhythm after injury recovery
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:43 pm

Will be a good test of England’s batting line up this
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by msp83 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:19 pm

KPF, the thing with Bumrah is the rhythm and match readiness. If he gets it right, he would be more suited to this bowling lineup more than in the first 2 tests.
How's the weather shaping up for day 2? Didn't someone say Sunday is likely to have a thicker cloud cover? Reading that, I was pretty certain Kohli will again lose the toss and India will be batting under the clouds yet again! Root gifted India a lifeline when he decided to bowl!

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by msp83 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:25 pm

Between Hardik and Ashwin, I believe Ashwin is the better bat. Hardik has terrific potential, but he's not quite there yet. As I wrote earlier, I like Pandya's application, but at this stage of his career, he doesn't have the technique to back it up for long. So yes, while not becoming stupid or reckless, he has to be a bit more positive. And in this lineup, he should swap his batting position with Ashwin. Think coming in at 6, Pandya feels the pressure to play like a top 6 that he is not quite yet. Give him a bit more freedom at 8... Ashwin has a better batting temperament, and his technique, the basics are somewhat better than that of Pandya.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by KP_fan on Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:33 pm

msp83 wrote:Between Hardik and Ashwin, I believe Ashwin is the better bat. Hardik has terrific potential, but he's not quite there yet. As I wrote earlier, I like Pandya's application, but at this stage of his career, he doesn't have the technique to back it up for long. So yes, while not becoming stupid or reckless, he has to be a bit more positive. And in this lineup, he should swap his batting position with Ashwin. Think coming in at 6, Pandya feels the pressure to play like a top 6 that he is not quite yet. Give him a bit more freedom at 8... Ashwin has a better batting temperament, and his technique, the basics are somewhat better than that of Pandya.

I agree
Pandya playing a slot ( or two) Lower may give him the freedom
he's playing too much like pujara...only in application / defense mode....
He's got-to play a few pulls.....a ramp shot or two....lofted over infield.....and then instead of 20 odd...he will average 30+ whihc is acceptable
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:42 am

I see England managed to come back in the last session ...those three wickets have brought the situation closer to even , though I'd have India a shade ahead due to runs on the board.
Ball still new so an early wicket tomorrow could see the innings fold for around 350. Which on this pitch seems around par or a little below.
The key though - whatever the final total - will be how England respond to having to bat second chasing a serious score : in recent times they have tended to struggle in such positions. And if they were to concede a significant deficit I think (batting last) they'd face a battle to avoid defeat . Suppose we ought really to welcome this as it will make a real test of the current batting unit , both in skills and temperament .

For the sake of the contest it would be nice to see similar first innings scores with India batting again late on day three : weather permitting that might set up an exciting finish...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:01 am

The Indian bats generally seemed to welcome easier conditions : I thought Dhawan did well to leave and play selectively - until he didn't. But his opening stand with Rahul (who still looks pretty shaky to me) set up the platform on which Kohli and Rahane were able to build. They both played really well : didn't go overboard attacking , but didn't miss a chance to score.
I didn't stay up for the last couple of hours so haven't seen Pant ; but with Pandya falling late I guess he and Ashwin are now crucial to the tourists' hopes of getting up near 400... Will be a test for him and his role as wk/sixth batsman.

For England I didn't think the bowling poor , except for Stokes , who may have been a bit too fired up in hopes of returning with a bang ? He was all over the place early on and not much better later. Rashid was what Rashid is : expensive , not overly threatening , but can get a breakthrough wicket...he wouldn't be in my team and I suspect if England were to lose this match he might not hold a place through this summer ; but with an eye to winter touring it is no bad thing he is getting a run now. He may yet get a second innings opportunity in this game.
Woakes was very good , Anderson reliable as ever , Broad occasionally dangerous and not blessed by good luck...Curran might have been handy for variety but I suspect would have found conditions rather less helpful this time and may perhaps have been well off out of it ?

I do think Root got it wrong at the toss. But he will have a chance to atone with the bat : this pitch and the bat second situation will give him an opportunity to prove he can play "serious" innings as well as brisk and attractive 50-80 knocks. (Yes of course we know he can ; but not so much recently and it would settle the tabloid/keyboard warrior clique down . Maybe Smile )

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Duty281 on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:16 am

Bit of fortune for India, for a change.

Overcast skies, bits of rain. Probably much tougher to bat today than it was yesterday.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by msp83 on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:41 am

Are we set for a delayed start Duty?

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:44 am

It makes for a very interesting test match now. The likeliest scenario is that India will reach between 350 and 400 this morning. England's batting has not been a high scoring unit for a little while now so this will really test them. It needs big scores from all of the frontline batsmen and unless England can get up top around India's first innings (not likely given England's batting of late) then India will be warm favourites to win the test.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:45 am

msp83 wrote:Are we set for a delayed start Duty?

Not at the moment.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Duty281 on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:46 am

msp83 wrote:Are we set for a delayed start Duty?

11:15.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:48 am

Duty281 wrote:
msp83 wrote:Are we set for a delayed start Duty?

11:15.

Ah right overnight rain. Still no problem to India's ambition of winning the test.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:06 pm

Now start will be perhaps 11.30. Still not an issue.
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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:51 pm

Anderson finding edges but nothing to hand yet...think you need a third man for Ashwin.

Broad might have had one if Buttler had jumped instead of ducked at slip ! Must have lost the ball completely ...

So far so good for India...323/6

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:55 pm

But now Broad induces the drag on from Pant...seemed to have a word or two as he went past too : not sure what that was about ?

Broad hasn't had a lot of luck in this innings so was probably due that. Pant a useful debut knock but he'd like to have gone on this morning.

323/7

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by Gooseberry on Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:03 pm

Could be a bit more assistance for Ondias seamers today which again will raise questions about bowling first.
England should be able to restrict India to a manageable score at least ....but the top order needs to step up for once.

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:04 pm

England's slip catching woes continue...Pope this time drops Ishant off Jimmy...

Low and not the easiest , perhaps. But it all adds up : and the fact that neither Root nor Stokes are in the cordon baffles me.

Broad with a Jaffa ! Skittles Ashwin completely.

Who needs catchers ?

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

Post by alfie on Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:08 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Could be a bit more assistance for Ondias seamers today which again will raise questions about bowling first.
England should be able to restrict India to a manageable score at least ....but the top order needs to step up for once.

Yes a bit there for the seamers this morning. Early batting will be tricky , I'd imagine.

Make that a lot there...No hope of a number ten getting a bat on that one , Stuart ...you will have to bowl him Smile

Think Shami is going to have a swing now...

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Re: England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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