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England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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Post by alfie Sun 12 Aug 2018, 12:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

Off goes Rahul...at least he doesn't waste a review ! That was stone dead.
Jimmy on course for ten ?

Rahane in next as Kohli was off the field too long...

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Post by msp83 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 4:21 pm

India need to keep the intensity levels up. Thought they should have protected the third-man boundary a bit more, no easy and free runs to be given away. Perhaps encourage the batsmen to play across to midwicket or drive through the covers, but don't let edges convert into easy boundaries...

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Post by Duty281 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 4:33 pm

This is frustrating for India. Ali edging his way into the 40s and Curran doing a mighty fine job.

250 wouldn't be the worst score in the world.

Oh forget that, Ali has played another loose shot, and it's 167/7. Will India get a quick kill now?

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Post by msp83 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 4:34 pm

This partnership now beginning to really damage India.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 30 Aug 2018, 4:38 pm

A sad way to go for Ali. England 169 for 7 and they need another sizeable partnership here if they are to post anything near 250.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 30 Aug 2018, 4:59 pm

Rashid trapped lbw for 6. England 177 for 8 and 200 looks some way off now.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:02 pm

Poor umpiring that - was clearly going down legsise, but England have no reviews left
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Post by Duty281 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:09 pm

Horrific stat courtesy of TMS:

This is England's 15th innings of the summer and they haven't got to 400 yet. The last time they got 400 was in Melbourne in December and Cook got 244 of those.

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Post by Gooseberry Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:18 pm

Even worse when you see how many of the runs Curran and Woakes have scored

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:24 pm

Curran gets to his second test 50 with a 6 and is now averaging over 40 in test cricket with the bat. England 206 for 8.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:24 pm

Curran, again, clubbing England into the 'semi-respectable' zone.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:25 pm

Curran's future will probably with the bat as his bowling outside England will be a non event

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:37 pm

Very handy 50 partnership up between Broad and Curran. England 227 for 8.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:39 pm

Curran moves onto 64 not out - his highest score in test cricket.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:45 pm

This isn't too bad a score, now, and England are back in this test match. Below par, yes, but getting into defendable territory.

Lots of swing for Anderson/Curran to work with.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:49 pm

Broad trapped lbw and England are 240 for 9.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:49 pm

240/9. Looks like Curran won't be getting a (deserved) ton.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 30 Aug 2018, 5:54 pm

In years gone by India's fast men used to fade as the day when on with their below par fitness. Aside from Kapil that being said. This Kohli lead side has considerably improved their fitness and now the fast men are relentless

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 30 Aug 2018, 6:03 pm

Curran bowled out for 78 and England all out for 246. Sub par score but so much more than looked possible earlier.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 6:05 pm

246 all out. At least 50 runs short, but by heaven England would have taken that after being 90/6. Curran was magnificent, once again.

Now, India need 350+ to take firm control of the game. There would appear to be plenty of swing, however, for England's seamers to work with.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 6:32 pm

Just a note that Broad averages 7.75 with the bat in tests in 2018. Shocked

Highly disappointing and wasteful four overs to finish off from England's seamers. India's openers didn't need to play the majority of deliveries.

Advantage firmly India's, but let's see what tomorrow brings.

(Only 80.4 overs bowled in the day)

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 30 Aug 2018, 6:33 pm

7 overs unbowled, even with them taking the extra half hour. Pathetic. No wonder test cricket is dying on its ar5e when there are 12 overs bowled per hour.

ICC really needs to start fining people, specifically umpires, for this. Soon start getting through the overs if you hit people in the pocket for unbowled overs
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Post by jimbohammers Thu 30 Aug 2018, 6:34 pm

Why not rush and try and get another over in?. Also why not try Sam Curran, who will be buzzing with confidence and being a left hander will force the batsman to play the ball.

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Post by jimbohammers Thu 30 Aug 2018, 6:51 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:7 overs unbowled, even with them taking the extra half hour. Pathetic. No wonder test cricket is dying on its ar5e when there are 12 overs bowled per hour.

ICC really needs to start fining people, specifically umpires, for this. Soon start getting through the overs if you hit people in the pocket for unbowled overs

Totally agree olly. Get on with it!

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Post by VTR Thu 30 Aug 2018, 6:54 pm

Just seen the Jennings dismissal. Atrocious is an understatement. No idea why he played here and is a waste of a spot. Vince opening couldn't have been any worse. Yes another square peg but he was in the squad and in form so should have been fitted in somewhere

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Post by KP_fan Thu 30 Aug 2018, 6:55 pm

--froom 86-6 India would be disappointed and Eng happy with a score of 246
BUT

ask the teams at start oof day Eng winning the toss batting first how do you view a score of 246?
Eng would be dissappointed and India happy

--the pitch offers seamm movement with the new ball and after 35 to 40 overs....batting gets easier...so you see nos 5 to 11 all scored runs for Eng when batting got a bit easier

--It will be good opportunity for Pant and Pandya to weigh in with runs tomm

Eng has put on a fighting total and It won't be easy for India...although i would put India a little ahead...only a little because they bat 4th
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Post by msp83 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 7:10 pm

So 246 it is from England. No damage done in the 4 overs India batted, and the openers already have 19 on the board, that is a bonus. But from 87-6, India should be disappointed that England nearly tripled their score to 246. Even from 177-8, India just let them get away a bit. At least 30 runs too many.
The bowlers were still bowling fine. So probably it is also a case of the ball getting softer and batting getting easier. The openers need to show lots and lots of discipline upfront like they did in the last test. Hopefully the 72 he made in the last innings would have given Cheteshwar Pujara some much needed confidence and that his game will be in better order for that. Hopefully Kohli and Rahane will come in once the ball lose the hardness and swing less.
Agree with KPF, India need at least 350 on the board to take control of the test match. It won't be easy though, the ball is swinging, and more than seam movement, it has been swing that has been the undoing of the Indian batting in recent times overseas. The batsmen, who lost India the first 2 tests, are yet again provided with a nice platform by the bowlers. They now need to play out of their skins and make it count unlike in the first test where in only Kohli turned up with the bat.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 30 Aug 2018, 7:28 pm

The England batting line isn't inspiring at all. The batsmen being utilised out of position is moronic as well. Jennings shouldn't be in the XI but he's there so we can't do anything about it.

Cook
Jennings(Vince)
Root
Bairstow
Moeen
Stokes
Buttler
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

That's what is should be at the Oval. Moeen has some 30 first class hundreds so he should be batting above Stokes and Buttler.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 30 Aug 2018, 8:04 pm

some more observations.....

-Pandya's radar wasn't functioning.....and his line was bad....
although he has talent....he's not a regular bowler coming from bowling a lot of overs in Ranji....and hence if he not 120% switched on, he can lose his rhythm
He's gotta play a lot more FC cricket as a bowler if he wants to improve his bowling

--Curran is a good batsman.....his technique and defense is good BUT he also benefits from coming in hopeless situations with few expectations of him and he is able to bat freely.....when weight of expectations grows on him....he too will struggle to bat so freely.

Bowling is his weaker trait and must work / focus more on his bowling......leaving  his runs as a bonus delivered to the side
His stroke-play reminiscent of Broad at his peak

India has to bat a 100 overs tot gain ascendancy in the game
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 30 Aug 2018, 8:24 pm

A disappointing day for England ultimately - but they managed to somehow clamber themselves upto a score which means they are still in the game, albeit I think they're a good 100-150 runs short of par.

The Jennings dismissal was quite frankly embarassing - and should be the end of his test career really. Burns has to come in for the final game

Cook looked good I thought, than just played a silly shot. Root looks horribly out of nick, and Bairstow just got a good nut. Stokes/Buttler did ok, Stokes battled well and Buttler looks in good form and will be disappointed not to turn that start into a more substantial score.

Moeen/Curran obviously did very well - Moeen a little less convincing but some nice shots, Curran looked fluent and again shows his promise with the bat. Rashid got a stinker of a decision, and Broad did ok.

Big day with the ball tomorrow - hoping Stokes is able to bowl, because Ashwin didn't get much if anything to turn...and if Stokes can't that doesn't bode well for Ali/Rashid
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Post by Duty281 Thu 30 Aug 2018, 9:36 pm

KP_fan wrote:Eng has put on a fighting total and It won't be easy for India...although i would put India a little ahead...only a little because they bat 4th

Bit harsh on India. I think India could rightfully consider themselves strong favourites from this position, and if the ball doesn't swing as much tomorrow then England are in a whole world of darkness.

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Post by No name Bertie Thu 30 Aug 2018, 9:49 pm

Like the previous role he played in the second innings of the first test, it is not just the runs Sam Curran scored - 78 in this instance, it is the partnerships he formed.  Sam Curran came in to bat when England were 86-6, and he was involved in partnerships that added 160 to the total.  His partnership with Moeen added 81 to the score, his partnership with Broad added 63 to the score.

In the second innings of the first test he came in at 86-6, scored 63 and formed partnerships that added 94 to the score, with Curran being the last man out.  The problem in that innings was that Sam Curran didn't get support from the 7th man - Buttler in that case - forming only a partnership that added 1 to the score (with Buttler getting himself out).
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Post by alfie Fri 31 Aug 2018, 1:18 am

As good a recovery as we could have hoped for , I think...good for Sam Curran - again. Think he has something...

Did get noticeably easier after lunch I think...ball got older , main bowlers gradually tired - though they bowled pretty well all the while I was watching. Stokes giving hints he could yet maintain the number five spot ? He looked sound until he didn't get quite far enough forward to a good nut. Not so sure about Buttler this time - very edgy again along with some lovely shots ...really fear number six is his limit and we have a few in that category ! Similar Moeen - I know many fancy him higher up but I don't. Perennial problems likely to persist for a while , I think... may have to hope the 6-9 can bail them out often enough for now.

Pity no breakthrough in the four overs but the morning will be interesting. Apart from Kohli India's batsmen haven't really been exactly solid so an early wicket might bring a few more. Will be interesting to see if Curran can follow up his batting heroics with a bowling spell....

Could be an interesting match.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 31 Aug 2018, 6:57 am

Sam f****** Curran - what a lad.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 31 Aug 2018, 8:48 am

Get the feeling this could be the pivotal day in this series - if India can be batting at close, with wickets in hand you feel they will have taken a grip on the match and the series which may be irreversible, however if England can bundle them out for a 1st innings lead it's hard to see India chasing what is set in the final dig...
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 31 Aug 2018, 9:30 am

The way Moeen played shows why the top order wasnt the right place for him. Despite the form he carried into the game he was still nervy and edgy, extremely lucky to get the runs he did and survive long enough to support Curran. I disagree with MSPs comment earlier that Kholi shouldve defended 3rd man, if that meant sacrificing an attacking fielder to discourage Moeen from continuing to try to give his wicket away. Batting 3 in County Cricket is a very different kettle of fish to facing the quality of bowling India produced early on.

But hopefuly making a decent score will help settle his nerves and make him feel more secure. When it comes to bowling he needs to hold his nerve and bowl the way he did last summer and against the Indians last time they were here. And in the second innings with the bat hopefuly he will come out a bit more assured and actually find the middle of the bat.

Moeens been given a golden chance to show what he can do. Batting down the order with relatively little pressure (aside form that heaped on him by his colleagues) and bowling as a second spinner should help manage his fragile mentality. Its not ideal to have players who are so prone to dips in confidence, especially in a struggling team, but he is capable of match winning performances when fully switched on.

So I still have some faith he's one of the players who can produce a bit of the magic England need to bail themsleves out of the mess they got in.


As for jennings...he looks mentally shot in the way Moeen did last winter. The non shot was the sign of pure nerves and pressure. Which is quite ironic since Bayliss had initially stated it was partly his strong characther that got him selected in the first place, the sort of guy who could go to Australia and take it.
In the pre match conference Root had mentioned he'd been moved out of the slips to relieve some of the pressure on him, and that there was a concern that missing catched was affecting his batting more than it would the guys who are in there now. Turns out that didnt work, although if he is utterly gone its probably best hes not in the slips as well I guess.
But, (at the risk of partly contradicting an earlier case I made for what Root/Bairstow etc should bat high) there is a danger that the senior batsmen are being asked to take on too much of the pressure in the side to help out these guys ( Moeen included). Its a difficult balancing act for sure. Again going back to the dark days of the 90s where Stewart ended up kepping wicket, opening the batting, and being vice capatin.


Currans now second in the run scorers for England in this series, despite having missed a test. Top averages are Woakes, Curran, Moeen, Bairstow...all non specialist batsmen. Roots the only pure batsman to average over 20.
I cant ever remember it being this bad from a top 6.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 31 Aug 2018, 9:46 am

Mo came in a lot earlier than expected, almost early by estimations of where he would come in batting up the order, performed well and got runs under pressure. Respected the ball whilst looking to score.

Not sure I agree that shows he would have been out of place higher up.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 31 Aug 2018, 9:48 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Mo came in a lot earlier than expected, almost early by estimations of where he would come in batting up the order, performed well and got runs under pressure. Respected the ball whilst looking to score.

Not sure I agree that shows he would have been out of place higher up.

He actually came in earlier in terms of overs, than when he scored the double century at Scarborough a week ago
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Post by alfie Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:17 am

Indian bats have started brightly this morning...looking for runs.

But is this out for Rahul ? Given on field...yes , gone ! Looked a good shout to me , though the umpire took a long time to give it.

Lot of lbws in this match already. Might pay to bowl straighter than usual...seems balls aren't going over the top as often as usual.

Will give Broad some confidence...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:19 am

Thought it looked plumb in real time, and it was on review - no idea why Dharmasena took so long to give it!
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:31 am

More damning stats ...Englands proper specialist batsmen have scored 411 runs in 23 innings between them in the series...Kholis scored 440 in 6. Pretty much 4 times as many runs each time hes been out to bat.

If anyone asks why they have a team stuffed with bits and pieces players and keepers...thats why.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:33 am

Anderson and Broad have been too short with the ball this morning, but they've got one opener out, so I suppose it's a decent start. India scoring runs at a good pelt.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:48 am

Well that is an excellent piece of umpiring - I was certain it was out caught too!
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:49 am

Wow that was incredible

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Post by Duty281 Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:59 am

Yes, tremendous umpiring. Reminded me of Billy Bowden's correct 'not-out' call on the final morning of the greatest series of them all.

India doing OK for the most part. The ball getting softer and still only one wicket down.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 31 Aug 2018, 12:06 pm

Excellent bowling from Broad - this time Dhawan has edged it, and taken well by Buttler behind the stumps.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 31 Aug 2018, 12:10 pm

*Key partnership klaxon*

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Fri 31 Aug 2018, 12:31 pm

Streaky edge takes Kohli to 6000 test runs. clap

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Post by alfie Fri 31 Aug 2018, 12:39 pm

Need to get Kohli or this could get away fast...

He tends to edge Jimmy quite often ; but it either doesn't go to hand - or gets dropped.

Had to go out for a while so missed the slow period after the first wicket ...but although Dhawan got out it appears India have weathered the difficult part of the day rather well. With Stokes unlikely to bowl much , England will be praying their spinners are going to have markedly better days than their previous records suggest...

Looks ominous.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 31 Aug 2018, 12:42 pm

Long spell for Broad ... and India are looking increasingly comfortable chipping away the lead despite his wickets. Concerning that theyve kept him on so long, it does suggets that Stokes is expected to only bowl as a bit part.

Its far from over but looks pretty bleak.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 31 Aug 2018, 12:47 pm

Jennings having a bowl??? Shocked Shocked Shocked
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